Is driving around the DC Metro area REALLY that bad?

[AlexandriaVA]

As usual, the best way to not indulge any revenue-seeking aspects of speed cameras is simply to not speed.

Besides, it's not like SE-SW Freeway and 295 are interstates in the Midwest. They've got a lot of vestiges of the pre-Interstate era and have many awkward movements and geometries.

[Zeffy]

I took the capital beltway this weekend and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Traffic moved at a good rate and the only bad thing were very aggressive drivers. When we got to the beltway it was about 8:30 PM but coming back on Sunday when we caught it at about 3 PM it was fine as well.

Of course, we hit about 3 slowdowns in Northern Virginia alone on I-95 which added at least 45 minutes to our return trip. It seems like either there's too many people for that highway or those people are terrible at driving!

[Pete from Boston]

I'd concur with 1995hoo that your biggest difference will be the rampant aggressiveness and, in particular, outright dickheadedness you'll experience from local drivers. While in places like NYC and even Boston you'll certainly get aggressive driving, it can usually be chalked up to a simple attempt at expeditiousness (often a misguided one, but so be it) in the face of widespread congestion. But in DC you'll likely notice a more spiteful, mean-spirited approach; when someone cuts you off there, it will often seem like a direct, personal attack instead of just the unfortunate consequence of you happening to be in someone else's way (and it's perhaps as likely to occur in free-flowing traffic as it is in congestion).

This is interesting.  I remember feeling this way about Boston drivers when I moved here.   New York drivers, I felt, drove aggressively because it was simply accepted as the way to do things.  In Boston, on the other hand, it was an opportunity to stick it to your neighbor.

People here told me I had it backwards.  Now I'm reading that it's DC drivers that are assholes, and New York and Boston people are just going with the flow.

I guess this is a very effective demonstration of the power of perspective.

[AlexandriaVA]

too many transplanted Midwesterners who leave large gaps between cars on the highways. I usually shoot those gaps because everyone else does, so I don't see any point in falling behind.

[TXtoNJ]

It's really not that horrible, unless you're on 50 going eastbound on a nice summer weekend.

[1995hoo]

Something else that might be worth noting for someone not from Virginia: VDOT is extremely picky about allowing right turns on red* only from the far right lane. Almost invariably there will be one of two signs–either a sign next to the rightmost lane (or its signal head) saying turns on red are allowed only from that lane, or else a sign next to the signal head for the second lane saying turns on red aren't allowed from that lane. The wording varies, and the signs are sometimes hard to see at night, but you'll quickly notice that most of the time in Virginia everyone gets into the far right lane whenever there are dual right-turn lanes. The reason is because all the local drivers know you can't go right on red from the other lane.

I haven't noticed the same paranoia about signing this restriction so religiously in other states, and I know whether there's a prohibition varies from state to state (Ohio allows turns from the second lane unless there's a sign: http://www.cleveland.com/roadrant/index.ssf/2010/07/right_on_red_riddle_is_solved.html ), so I thought I'd mention it just so you don't think you've found some great shortcut when there's nobody lined up in the second lane from the right. (Sometimes it is faster just to wait it out, but not always.)


*I can think of at least two intersections in Northern Virginia where there are multiple left-turn lanes from one-way streets into one-way streets, yet at neither of them is there a sign prohibiting left turns on red from the second lane. I don't know whether this is an oversight on VDOT's part or whether it's just a recognition that the vast majority of drivers don't know left on red is ever legal. I can think of one intersection with lefts on red where there's a "No Turn on Red When Pedestrians Are Present" sign.

[Pete from Boston]

too many transplanted Midwesterners who leave large gaps between cars on the highways. I usually shoot those gaps because everyone else does, so I don't see any point in falling behind.

Gaps more than the conservative car-length-per-10mph, right?  If you "shoot gaps" smaller than that, the point is that you're playing with the lives of other people.

I get the reasoning that if you don't do it someone else will, but when you put people down for leaving a safe gap it comes across like you're putting yourself above basic physics. 

[noelbotevera]

I have tons of gripes.

People who go 6+ under the limit. We are all in a hurry, if I had to, I'd probably crash into you.

Right lane hoggers/people with no common sense. There's a lane right next to you and this lane is backed up? Then use it.

The Sliders. Take the next exit, I don't care if you merged 1 foot from the exit you want. No way you are weaving there.

Unnecessary lane closures. I have a flat tire, but would I even close 3 lanes of traffic?

[empirestate]

I'd concur with 1995hoo that your biggest difference will be the rampant aggressiveness and, in particular, outright dickheadedness you'll experience from local drivers. While in places like NYC and even Boston you'll certainly get aggressive driving, it can usually be chalked up to a simple attempt at expeditiousness (often a misguided one, but so be it) in the face of widespread congestion. But in DC you'll likely notice a more spiteful, mean-spirited approach; when someone cuts you off there, it will often seem like a direct, personal attack instead of just the unfortunate consequence of you happening to be in someone else's way (and it's perhaps as likely to occur in free-flowing traffic as it is in congestion).

This is interesting.  I remember feeling this way about Boston drivers when I moved here.   New York drivers, I felt, drove aggressively because it was simply accepted as the way to do things.  In Boston, on the other hand, it was an opportunity to stick it to your neighbor.

People here told me I had it backwards.  Now I'm reading that it's DC drivers that are assholes, and New York and Boston people are just going with the flow.

I guess this is a very effective demonstration of the power of perspective.

No, I quite agree. I had the same perception–and still do–of Boston drivers when I lived there for 3 1/2 years, after having also lived in New York City. In particular, I observed that conflicts between drivers and pedestrians tended to be carried out on a more personal level than they were in New York.

But after visiting the DC area later in life, I found it takes the cake over both of them.

[Rothman]

Right lane hoggers

Well, that's a new one.

...

Anyway, one of mine is with people who don't know/can't decide where they're going and don't read signage.  These are the people cutting across gores or come up to an intersection in a straight lane and then stop at a green light because they suddenly decide they need to turn left and have to inconvenience those that used the left-turn lane and those people now stuck behind them.

Frankly, both in Boston and NYC, I see this peeve causing more of the perception that drivers are mean in those cities, when in reality, it's the doofus driving around cluelessly that's the real problem.  My experience in both Boston and NYC is that as long as you know where you're going and communicate such to your fellow drivers, drivers are actually quite accommodating.  When you start straddling lanes due to indecision or didn't take the time to figure out where you're going beforehand and inconvenience the rest of us, yeah, we'll let you know that as well.  So, the doofus heads back home and tells his friends that us Northeasterners are jerks and whatnot.  Oh well.

I'm going to have to exempt Connecticut drivers from my defense, here, though.  Those over-insured turkeys are the ones that also contribute to the idea that NYC drivers are horrible.  Nope, it's those hyper-aggressive blue plates bolting into the City and cutting us all off that tick us all off.  If more outsiders realized that the Connecticut drivers are the problem in the Northeast, we could ally our forces against a common enemy.  But, unfortunately, people think New Yorkers and whoever else are the culprits, thus letting the truly criminal and despicable drivers escape unscathed.

[1995hoo]

....

Anyway, one of mine is with people who don't know/can't decide where they're going and don't read signage.  These are the people cutting across gores or come up to an intersection in a straight lane and then stop at a green light because they suddenly decide they need to turn left and have to inconvenience those that used the left-turn lane and those people now stuck behind them.

....

I've sometimes wondered if there's some sort of societal phenomenon that's caused people to become more obnoxious about this sort of thing. Once upon a time if you realized you were in the turn lane and couldn't get over, or if you were too far over to make your exit on the highway, you simply made the turn (in the turn lane example) and either cut a U-turn when possible or went around the block, or you went on to the next exit and worked your way back either via an alternate route or by getting back on the highway going the other way. Nowadays that doesn't seem to happen anymore. People will stop in whatever lane they're in, not caring how much traffic they block, because they're determined to get over. If you honk at them because they're blocking your turn, they give you the finger.

Sometimes it's clear enough it's a genuine mistake. There's a lane near my house that starts as a thru lane and becomes left-turn-only without sufficient warning (the only sign advising it will become a turn lane is placed to the far RIGHT, across three lanes of traffic). Mistakes will happen there, though I still believe it's unacceptable to sit there blocking the turn lane because you wanted to go straight. Make the left turn and then turn around or go through the nearby high school.

[empirestate]

Frankly, both in Boston and NYC, I see this peeve causing more of the perception that drivers are mean in those cities, when in reality, it's the doofus driving around cluelessly that's the real problem.  My experience in both Boston and NYC is that as long as you know where you're going and communicate such to your fellow drivers, drivers are actually quite accommodating.  When you start straddling lanes due to indecision or didn't take the time to figure out where you're going beforehand and inconvenience the rest of us, yeah, we'll let you know that as well.  So, the doofus heads back home and tells his friends that us Northeasterners are jerks and whatnot.  Oh well.

I'm going to have to exempt Connecticut drivers from my defense, here, though.  Those over-insured turkeys are the ones that also contribute to the idea that NYC drivers are horrible.  Nope, it's those hyper-aggressive blue plates bolting into the City and cutting us all off that tick us all off.  If more outsiders realized that the Connecticut drivers are the problem in the Northeast, we could ally our forces against a common enemy.  But, unfortunately, people think New Yorkers and whoever else are the culprits, thus letting the truly criminal and despicable drivers escape unscathed.

Oh man, nothing more terrifying than a German car with Connecticut plates in your mirror!

One thing I will add about New York drivers is that there is an unwritten set of rules that is acceptable to disregard, at least in certain instances and at certain times, while others are steadfastly adhered to. I have a tough time processing exactly what that set of rules is, and of course it tends to conflict directly with established rules of the road–and quite often common sense. Lane use is an obvious example: it's no surprise that New Yorkers will drive and pass in any lane they feel is most expedient (often wrongly, as an empty lane just lets you reach traffic quicker and thus sit in it longer), which is fine with me most of the time. But it gets annoying when you're the guy actually trying to follow the rules; you get a lot of people trying to zoom around you just as you're trying to get out of their way, so they get stuck behind you some more and now they're all pissed off when they could have just done it the right way and been long gone done the road by now. And sitting in the next line of traffic.

I've sometimes wondered if there's some sort of societal phenomenon that's caused people to become more obnoxious about this sort of thing. Once upon a time if you realized you were in the turn lane and couldn't get over, or if you were too far over to make your exit on the highway, you simply made the turn (in the turn lane example) and either cut a U-turn when possible or went around the block, or you went on to the next exit and worked your way back either via an alternate route or by getting back on the highway going the other way. Nowadays that doesn't seem to happen anymore. People will stop in whatever lane they're in, not caring how much traffic they block, because they're determined to get over. If you honk at them because they're blocking your turn, they give you the finger.

Sometimes it's clear enough it's a genuine mistake. There's a lane near my house that starts as a thru lane and becomes left-turn-only without sufficient warning (the only sign advising it will become a turn lane is placed to the far RIGHT, across three lanes of traffic). Mistakes will happen there, though I still believe it's unacceptable to sit there blocking the turn lane because you wanted to go straight. Make the left turn and then turn around or go through the nearby high school.

I think it's a combination of not knowing how to interact with fellow humans (let's blame the video games that many adult drivers today grew up on), combined with genuinely not knowing how else to solve the problem (blame technology for giving us so much access to information that we actually use less of it than ever before).

[jeffandnicole]

....

Anyway, one of mine is with people who don't know/can't decide where they're going and don't read signage.  These are the people cutting across gores or come up to an intersection in a straight lane and then stop at a green light because they suddenly decide they need to turn left and have to inconvenience those that used the left-turn lane and those people now stuck behind them.

....

I've sometimes wondered if there's some sort of societal phenomenon that's caused people to become more obnoxious about this sort of thing. Once upon a time if you realized you were in the turn lane and couldn't get over, or if you were too far over to make your exit on the highway, you simply made the turn (in the turn lane example) and either cut a U-turn when possible or went around the block, or you went on to the next exit and worked your way back either via an alternate route or by getting back on the highway going the other way. Nowadays that doesn't seem to happen anymore. People will stop in whatever lane they're in, not caring how much traffic they block, because they're determined to get over. If you honk at them because they're blocking your turn, they give you the finger.

Because no one wants to tell them they did wrong.

If you tell other people what you did, and then add in "and those people behind me were honking their horns so I just made them wait", you can bet nearly all of their friends will say "Yeah, that's right. It's only a minute.  What's the rush". 

The same people will also bitch "some asshole was blocking me today because they wanted to turn left from the straight lane.  Why can't they just go straight and make a U-turn", and the same friends will say "Yeah, why is it always about them?"

Maybe if someone would say "You know, you could've just gone to the next intersection and made a U-turn", then they would realize (maybe) that their actions were wrong.  But since no one wants to be the 'No' person, everyone just figures they have the encouragement of their peers to do whatever they want to do.

BTW, I'm not one of those people.  I'll listen to my carpool mates complain about other traffic, but every once in a while I have to chime in.  Last week, for example, someone was complaining how another car "sped up" and wouldn't let him merge left.  After a few moments, I finally said, "Well, you did have the yield sign, then wanted to get over 2 lanes at once.  He had the right-of-way, not you".

[cl94]

2. Backed up traffic on the interstates and drivers ahead of you NOT using their emergency flashers to let you know the traffic is stopped.

I'd like to know where in the country this is actually done.  I certainly haven't seen it in my (fairly extensive) travels...

This is a sure sign someone isn't from the area. I'll see this on occasion too, in a commonly congested area. Clearly the visitor to the area wasn't expecting congestion, and figures no one else may be either, even though it's a normal rush hour.

One would wear out their hazard button if they hit the button everytime they encountered congestion near most cities in the eastern US.

Oh, yeah. I was never taught that and I have never done it.

Right lane hoggers

Well, that's a new one.

...

Anyway, one of mine is with people who don't know/can't decide where they're going and don't read signage.  These are the people cutting across gores or come up to an intersection in a straight lane and then stop at a green light because they suddenly decide they need to turn left and have to inconvenience those that used the left-turn lane and those people now stuck behind them.

Frankly, both in Boston and NYC, I see this peeve causing more of the perception that drivers are mean in those cities, when in reality, it's the doofus driving around cluelessly that's the real problem.  My experience in both Boston and NYC is that as long as you know where you're going and communicate such to your fellow drivers, drivers are actually quite accommodating.  When you start straddling lanes due to indecision or didn't take the time to figure out where you're going beforehand and inconvenience the rest of us, yeah, we'll let you know that as well.  So, the doofus heads back home and tells his friends that us Northeasterners are jerks and whatnot.  Oh well.

I'm going to have to exempt Connecticut drivers from my defense, here, though.  Those over-insured turkeys are the ones that also contribute to the idea that NYC drivers are horrible.  Nope, it's those hyper-aggressive blue plates bolting into the City and cutting us all off that tick us all off.  If more outsiders realized that the Connecticut drivers are the problem in the Northeast, we could ally our forces against a common enemy.  But, unfortunately, people think New Yorkers and whoever else are the culprits, thus letting the truly criminal and despicable drivers escape unscathed.

He's right.

Back on topic, if you're going to the National Mall, Zoo, and National Cathedral, your best bet might be to take public transportation. If you're staying in Manassas, park at the end of the Orange Line (Vienna), pay $4.85 for parking and get 2 day passes at $14.50 each. You won't have to worry about getting stuck in traffic or finding your way around and it would probably take the same amount of time, if not less. If you don't like traffic, this might be your best bet. Parking near the Mall is quite scarce and expensive. If you drove everywhere, you'd probably be talking over $40 for parking.

[ARMOURERERIC]

When moving from DC to Newport News in late 1991, I was very frustrated with the Friday night commute down to the new house:  Once south of Fredericksburg, the speed was quite connsisstant on a lane by lane basis, the problem was in a 65 zone it was right lane 45, center lane 55, left lane 75.  None of which was an enjoyable experience.  I started bailing for US1

[Zzonkmiles]

Right lane hoggers

Well, that's a new one.

Yeah, I saw this too. What is this?

My guess is the person who stays in the right lane and doesn't move over to the next lane on the left to allow merging traffic to enter the mainline safely.

[noelbotevera]

Right lane hoggers

Well, that's a new one.

Yeah, I saw this too. What is this?

My guess is the person who stays in the right lane and doesn't move over to the next lane on the left to allow merging traffic to enter the mainline safely.

A right lane hogger is groups of tailgaters who never wants to get out of the right lane and is so slow that you can't pass them because of them forever going under the speed limit and having no space to overtake even one car. Also, they block you from merging in the highway, even though the left lane is clear, but they never go into the left lane. You pretty much have to hit the gas to pass these guys. They always stay in the right lane and are impossible to pass because they're so slow, and they block merging traffic (to sum it up).

[Zzonkmiles]

Right lane hoggers

Well, that's a new one.

Yeah, I saw this too. What is this?

My guess is the person who stays in the right lane and doesn't move over to the next lane on the left to allow merging traffic to enter the mainline safely.

A right lane hogger is groups of tailgaters who never wants to get out of the right lane and is so slow that you can't pass them because of them forever going under the speed limit and having no space to overtake even one car. Also, they block you from merging in the highway, even though the left lane is clear, but they never go into the left lane. You pretty much have to hit the gas to pass these guys. They always stay in the right lane and are impossible to pass because they're so slow, and they block merging traffic (to sum it up).

Interesting. I'm a bit conflicted about this. I can TOTALLY understand the annoyance, but then again, if a driver is going to be slow, then the right lane is the right place to do it. Maybe they are following those "slower traffic keep right" signs carefully? Since I almost always drive in the left lane (I drive faster than about 75% of the other cars on the road), I typically don't have this problem.

[froggie]

I find it fascinating that a kid who isn't even within 5 years of driving has such a knowledge of driving (even if he contradicts himself in the same sentence, as he did in his description)...

[Pete from Boston]

Right lane hoggers

Well, that's a new one.

Yeah, I saw this too. What is this?

My guess is the person who stays in the right lane and doesn't move over to the next lane on the left to allow merging traffic to enter the mainline safely.

A right lane hogger is groups of tailgaters who never wants to get out of the right lane and is so slow that you can't pass them because of them forever going under the speed limit and having no space to overtake even one car. Also, they block you from merging in the highway, even though the left lane is clear, but they never go into the left lane. You pretty much have to hit the gas to pass these guys. They always stay in the right lane and are impossible to pass because they're so slow, and they block merging traffic (to sum it up).

Who do you not "hit the gas" to pass, if I may ask? 

Aren't slow cars easy to pass? 

Maybe I just haven't had this problem yet.

[Rothman]

I find it fascinating that a kid who isn't even within 5 years of driving has such a knowledge of driving (even if he contradicts himself in the same sentence, as he did in his description)...

I find it fascinating that a kid who isn't even within 5 years of driving has such a knowledge of driving (even if he contradicts himself in the same sentence, as he did in his description)...

I doubt that he's a kid, truth be told.

[empirestate]

I drive faster than about 75% of the other cars on the road

That seems to be true of everybody where I live.


iPhone

[cl94]

I find it fascinating that a kid who isn't even within 5 years of driving has such a knowledge of driving (even if he contradicts himself in the same sentence, as he did in his description)...

I find it fascinating that a kid who isn't even within 5 years of driving has such a knowledge of driving (even if he contradicts himself in the same sentence, as he did in his description)...

I doubt that he's a kid, truth be told.

So you're saying he's like one of those old guys who poses as a kid in order to lure in children for illegal purposes?

[Alps]

I find it fascinating that a kid who isn't even within 5 years of driving has such a knowledge of driving (even if he contradicts himself in the same sentence, as he did in his description)...

I find it fascinating that a kid who isn't even within 5 years of driving has such a knowledge of driving (even if he contradicts himself in the same sentence, as he did in his description)...

I doubt that he's a kid, truth be told.

[MikeTheActuary]

Frankly, both in Boston and NYC, I see this peeve causing more of the perception that drivers are mean in those cities, when in reality, it's the doofus driving around cluelessly that's the real problem.  My experience in both Boston and NYC is that as long as you know where you're going and communicate such to your fellow drivers, drivers are actually quite accommodating.  When you start straddling lanes due to indecision or didn't take the time to figure out where you're going beforehand and inconvenience the rest of us, yeah, we'll let you know that as well.  So, the doofus heads back home and tells his friends that us Northeasterners are jerks and whatnot.  Oh well.

I'm going to have to exempt Connecticut drivers from my defense, here, though.  Those over-insured turkeys are the ones that also contribute to the idea that NYC drivers are horrible.  Nope, it's those hyper-aggressive blue plates bolting into the City and cutting us all off that tick us all off.  If more outsiders realized that the Connecticut drivers are the problem in the Northeast, we could ally our forces against a common enemy.  But, unfortunately, people think New Yorkers and whoever else are the culprits, thus letting the truly criminal and despicable drivers escape unscathed.

I'd say that Connecticut does indeed have a fairly high proportion of drivers whose road habits reflect a certain sense of self-entitlement.  This attitude is, perhaps, a bit more common in certain locales behind the Nutmeg Curtain.  (Parts of Fairfield County, perhaps?)

I've found metro New York local drivers to be aggressive, but not crazy once you comprehend that they are all mostly following the same set of (unwritten, but understood) rules.

Massachusetts and New Jersey drivers, however....while many/most of them are fine, I wonder if the rate of driving-idiocy in those states might be a touch higher than in other nearby states.   I remember one trip where I was not only stuck in a rubber-necking induced traffic jam on the Garden State, but I saw people actually stop and get out of their cars to gawk at the wreck on the other side of the parkway....

I doubt that he's a kid, truth be told.

Kids and trolls sometimes resemble one another.