Why does the NYS Thruway not sign for Rochester and Syracuse?

[James]

The Thruway only signs for Buffalo and Albany yet ignores Rochester and Syracuse; why exactly is that?

Also, why sign for Erie west of Buffalo and not for Cleveland?

[webny99]

If Erie was skipped in favor of Cleveland, wouldn't that be just like skipping Syracuse in favor of Albany? 

(Personally I think Syracuse should be used since it's a major interstate junction and it would break up the extremely long "Albany to Buffalo" section, but I'm fine with Rochester being skipped since the Thruway doesn't go to Rochester.)

[James]

I should've worded it better; I meant that if the Thruway ignores Rochester and Syracuse, then it should also ignore Erie which is smaller than both. Basically, in other words, the Thruway should only sign for Erie if it also signs for Rochester and Syracuse. If the Thruway only signs for Buffalo and Albany, then it should also ignore Erie and just sign straight for Cleveland west out of Buffalo.

Also, it's weird that I-90 EB is actually signed for Albany/Rochester at the junction with I-190. I-290 EB is similarly signed for Rochester for its entire length.

[Ted$8roadFan]

The Thruway should use Syracuse and Rochester in addition to Buffalo. They're both significant enough and would help break up a very long drive. As for Erie, I could go either way. Ohio signs its northeastern highways (both I-90 and I-271) as "Erie Pa"  instead of Buffalo.

[MATraveler128]

I think Erie is used because it's a major Interstate junction (I-79). Plenty of examples like that out there, but at least Erie is a proper city. Ask NCDOT why Benson is used on I-95 instead of Fayetteville or Rocky Mount.

[TMETSJETSYT]

They only do 1 control city on the sign, and Buffalo is the biggest city along it besides NY City.

[TMETSJETSYT]

Its also because back in the olden days when the Thruway was new, people didn't have gps and Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now, and almost everyone on the thruway was going to Buffalo, and they didn't wanna confuse anyone, and I guess it just sticked like that over time.

[Jim]

Its also because back in the olden days when the Thruway was new, people didn't have gps and Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now, and almost everyone on the thruway was going to Buffalo, and they didn't wanna confuse anyone, and I guess it just sticked like that over time.

Unsurprisingly, looking at population data, both Syracuse and Rochester had much higher populations when the Thruway was built than they do today.

[baugh17]

The Thruway should use Syracuse and Rochester in addition to Buffalo. They're both significant enough and would help break up a very long drive. As for Erie, I could go either way. Ohio signs its northeastern highways (both I-90 and I-271) as "Erie Pa"  instead of Buffalo.

Let's not forget that Rochester and Syracuse (and also Utica) are used on distance signs.

[Ted$8roadFan]

The Thruway should use Syracuse and Rochester in addition to Buffalo. They're both significant enough and would help break up a very long drive. As for Erie, I could go either way. Ohio signs its northeastern highways (both I-90 and I-271) as "Erie Pa"  instead of Buffalo.

Let's not forget that Rochester and Syracuse (and also Utica) are used on distance signs.

I think the thread author was referring to the main highways sings, tho you're right about the distance signs.

[vdeane]

Regarding Albany, it's probably mainly there because it's the state capital and because it's where the Thruway turns from north/south to east/west.  The area just wasn't that big when the Thruway was built - I'd go so far as to say that the Capital District didn't even exist as a proper metro area back then, given that there were still large rural areas between the cities rather than suburbia back then (even the state office complex and SUNY Albany were farm country back then).  Today, meanwhile, the Capital District is larger than the Syracuse metro area (which is weird to think about, given that I grew up thinking of Rochester/Buffalo/Syracuse as a set of similar areas).

The Thruway should use Syracuse and Rochester in addition to Buffalo. They're both significant enough and would help break up a very long drive. As for Erie, I could go either way. Ohio signs its northeastern highways (both I-90 and I-271) as "Erie Pa"  instead of Buffalo.

Let's not forget that Rochester and Syracuse (and also Utica) are used on distance signs.

Speaking of distance signs, those have a few oddities too.  Northbound is obviously based on the Thruway but does make a concession for I-87 with Albany/Buffalo/Montreal.  Southbound uses only New York - I'd personally add Newburgh and/or Suffern (or perhaps Mahwah, matching NJ?) as those are major junctions (I-84 and I-287, respectively).  Westbound on the Berkshire Spur is Albany/New York/Buffalo and eastbound is Mass Pike/Boston (no Springfield).  On the mainline, westbound is Utica/Syracuse/Buffalo, Rochester/Syracuse/Buffalo, Buffalo/Niagara Falls, and PA Line/Erie; I'd replace Buffalo/Niagara Falls with Buffalo/Erie and PA Line/Erie with Erie/Cleveland.  Eastbound is Buffalo/Albany/New York, Buffalo/Niagara Falls, Rochester/Albany/New York, Syracuse/Albany/New York, Utica/Albany/New York, and Albany/New York; I'd delete the Buffalo/Niagara Falls sections and absorb it into Buffalo/Albany/New York, and add Boston east of Utica (I'd probably also delete New York, especially west of Utica, and replace it with other control cities; similarly, I'd delete probably Buffalo on the northbound Thruway and replace it with other control cities).  The EB Berkshire Spur could also be Springfield/Boston.

[webny99]

... I'd replace Buffalo/Niagara Falls with Buffalo/Erie and PA Line/Erie with Erie/Cleveland.  ... I'd delete the Buffalo/Niagara Falls sections and absorb it into Buffalo/Albany/New York, and add Boston east of Utica (I'd probably also delete New York, especially west of Utica, and replace it with other control cities; similarly, delete I'd probably Buffalo on the northbound Thruway and replace it with other control cities).

Agreed with pretty much all of that but especially these two points. It has always seemed odd to have Niagara Falls on the distance signs, since you'd take both I-290 and I-190 to reach the falls, and Buffalo alone is a fine approximation for where you exit the Thruway.

And yes, very little traffic west of I-81 is going to take the Thruway all the way to NYC, similarly very little traffic south of Albany is going to take the Thruway all the way to Buffalo. Those two extremes seem like a misleading attempt to keep traffic on the Thruway system even though it's not the fastest route.

[amroad17]

... I'd replace Buffalo/Niagara Falls with Buffalo/Erie and PA Line/Erie with Erie/Cleveland.  ... I'd delete the Buffalo/Niagara Falls sections and absorb it into Buffalo/Albany/New York, and add Boston east of Utica (I'd probably also delete New York, especially west of Utica, and replace it with other control cities; similarly, delete I'd probably Buffalo on the northbound Thruway and replace it with other control cities).

Agreed with pretty much all of that but especially these two points. It has always seemed odd to have Niagara Falls on the distance signs, since you'd take both I-290 and I-190 to reach the falls, and Buffalo alone is a fine approximation for where you exit the Thruway.

And yes, very little traffic west of I-81 is going to take the Thruway all the way to NYC, similarly very little traffic south of Albany is going to take the Thruway all the way to Buffalo. Those two extremes seem like a misleading attempt to keep traffic on the Thruway system even though it's not the fastest route.

Even though I am originally from the Syracuse area (and having lived about one mile south of the Thruway) having Albany as the control point for I-90 EB east of Buffalo is fine since, along with New York, Albany is listed on every distance sign from the PA/NY line to the Schenectady area.  There is no need to have a control point change every 70 miles along the Thruway.  The other cities are listed on distance signs along the way.  I would also keep Niagara Falls on distance signs WB because of the area being a tourist attraction.

The Thruway should have EB distance signs from Utica to Albany listing Albany, Boston, and New York.  SB should have a distance sign with Newburgh, Boston, and New York at mm 140, then after the Berkshire Connection interchange, list Kingston, Newburgh, and New York.  After Kingston, list Newburgh, Suffern, and New York.  After Newburgh, list just Suffern and New York.  Between Albany and New York there aren't any larger cities, like Syracuse and Rochester along the Buffalo-Albany section, so I chose some decent sized cities to list.

I would like to see Cleveland listed on the BGS's along with Erie at Exits 54 and 55.  There is enough room to add Cleveland to them.  Also, the WB Thruway southwest of Buffalo should have three line distance signs listing the PA Line, Erie, and Cleveland.  If the Thruway can do this EB, they should be able to do this WB.

[Flint1979]

Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now

I don't know about that. Rochester peaked in population in 1950 at 332,488; the 2020 census has it at 211,328 so Rochester is actually smaller than it was when the Thruway opened in the 1950's. Same with Syracuse it went from 220,583 in 1950 to 148,620 in 2020. So both were much bigger back in the day.

[amroad17]

Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now

I don't know about that. Rochester peaked in population in 1950 at 332,488; the 2020 census has it at 211,328 so Rochester is actually smaller than it was when the Thruway opened in the 1950's. Same with Syracuse it went from 220,583 in 1950 to 148,620 in 2020. So both were much bigger back in the day.

Much of the population in these two areas are concentrated in the suburbs.  Monroe County has grown from ~487,000 residents in 1950 to ~759,000 residents in 2020.  Onondaga County has not grown as much, having ~423,000 residents in 1960 to ~476,000 residents in 2020 (figures acquired from Wikipedia).  Much of the Syracuse city proper population decline may be from residents wanting to move from one of the snowiest cities in the Northeast to a city with a warmer climate as well as with the closing of the GE Plant on Electronics Pkwy in Liverpool (where Lockheed-Martin is today) and with Carrier Corp. transferring much of their operations elsewhere.

[kalvado]

Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now

I don't know about that. Rochester peaked in population in 1950 at 332,488; the 2020 census has it at 211,328 so Rochester is actually smaller than it was when the Thruway opened in the 1950's. Same with Syracuse it went from 220,583 in 1950 to 148,620 in 2020. So both were much bigger back in the day.

Much of the population in these two areas are concentrated in the suburbs.  Monroe County has grown from ~487,000 residents in 1950 to ~759,000 residents in 2020.  Onondaga County has not grown as much, having ~423,000 residents in 1960 to ~476,000 residents in 2020 (figures acquired from Wikipedia).  Much of the Syracuse city proper population decline may be from residents wanting to move from one of the snowiest cities in the Northeast to a city with a warmer climate as well as with the closing of the GE Plant on Electronics Pkwy in Liverpool (where Lockheed-Martin is today) and with Carrier Corp. transferring much of their operations elsewhere.

Buffalo metro population is, surprisingly, almost flat

I expect Syracuse to be shrinking, cannot find the data right now. Rochester should be affected by Kodak quite a bit

But overall, this reminds me discussion about Limon as a control city....

[bluecountry]

IMO the Thruway as well should sign Newburgh instead of Albany in the Lower Hudson.

[vdeane]

Why Newburgh instead of Albany?  I could see Newburgh/Albany/Montreal, leaving off Buffalo, but I don't see why the next major metro area heading north should be left off.  It would be like leaving off Syracuse heading west from Albany.

[bluecountry]

Why Newburgh instead of Albany?  I could see Newburgh/Albany/Montreal, leaving off Buffalo, but I don't see why the next major metro area heading north should be left off.  It would be like leaving off Syracuse heading west from Albany.

-Tappan Zee Bridge from Yonkers
-Newburgh from Tappen Zee Bridge
-Albany from Newburgh

[vdeane]

Why Newburgh instead of Albany?  I could see Newburgh/Albany/Montreal, leaving off Buffalo, but I don't see why the next major metro area heading north should be left off.  It would be like leaving off Syracuse heading west from Albany.

-Tappan Zee Bridge from Yonkers
-Newburgh from Tappen Zee Bridge
-Albany from Newburgh

Are you not aware that the Albany metro area is the 4th largest in the state (larger than Syracuse, even)?  It makes ZERO sense to leave Albany off between Suffern and Newburgh.

[cockroachking]

Albany gets the point across, given what vdeane mentioned, not to mention the fact that it is the state capital. I would guess that hardly anyone knows where Newburgh is compared to Albany, especially outside of the Northeast.

[Roadgeekteen]

I would not sign any other cities on the Thruway/87 between NYC and Albany. I would support adding Syracuse as a control city between Buffalo and Albany. Not Rochester though as the Thruway bypasses it.

[Alps]

I would not sign any other cities on the Thruway/87 between NYC and Albany. I would support adding Syracuse as a control city between Buffalo and Albany. Not Rochester though as the Thruway bypasses it.

But the I-490 loop serves it, so I'm fine with Rochester.

[bluecountry]

Why Newburgh instead of Albany?  I could see Newburgh/Albany/Montreal, leaving off Buffalo, but I don't see why the next major metro area heading north should be left off.  It would be like leaving off Syracuse heading west from Albany.

-Tappan Zee Bridge from Yonkers
-Newburgh from Tappen Zee Bridge
-Albany from Newburgh

Are you not aware that the Albany metro area is the 4th largest in the state (larger than Syracuse, even)?  It makes ZERO sense to leave Albany off between Suffern and Newburgh.

I think it is pre-mature to sign 'Albany' prior to the Mahwah/287 exit.

[webny99]

I would not sign any other cities on the Thruway/87 between NYC and Albany. I would support adding Syracuse as a control city between Buffalo and Albany. Not Rochester though as the Thruway bypasses it.

But the I-490 loop serves it, so I'm fine with Rochester.

Still a bit too Pennsylvania-esque for my liking, although at least Rochester is bigger than Hazleton or Bellefonte