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 1 
 on: Today at 01:08:15 PM 
Started by daviddang1989 - Last post by MikeSantNY78

Here's a video of the highway from milepost 14 in Ulupalakua to where the smooth pavement ends near milepost 32:


So what happened to the video, eh?

 2 
 on: Today at 01:07:47 PM 
Started by Desert Man - Last post by Hurricane Rex
On a 2 week dry streak right now, as we are supposed to be getting wetter.

LG-TP260


 3 
 on: Today at 01:06:56 PM 
Started by cl94 - Last post by cl94
I'd recommend wearing clothes/shoes you don't mind getting dirty.
Question: how dirty are we talking about here?  I'm planning on sneakers for this one rather than my usual boots or flats (not that it's warm enough for the latter any more), but I don't really have "mud shoes" (or pants, etc.).  Plus I don't want to track stuff into my car or apartment.

Unfortunately, it seems like the forecast has gotten worse with much more pervasive rain.  Why does it seem like Saturday is usually worse than Sunday around here?

As dirty as you're willing to make it. You can SEE everything without getting particularly dirty and I doubt there will be mud people will have to walk through. The trestle requires a 1/2 mile (round-trip) walk along a well-compacted gravel trail and the covered bridge may require walking on dirt if we can't get spots on the shoulder next to it (there's room for 3-4 cars if we park tightly). If you want to actually get in the tunnel, THAT may require walking through mud, but it is 100% optional. Heck, I'll likely skip that one if the mud is bad, as I'd prefer not to be covered in mud.

With the weather, I've learned to never count on anything this time of year. We could also have wildly different conditions in the part of the meet that's in the mountains. You never know. If temps get colder and ice becomes a concern, I WILL make some modifications to minimize travel on 28A, which NYCDOT does not salt. If there's heavy rain, we'll skip the tunnel and abandoned bridge over the 9W arterial (as the access to that, while not muddy in the showers I had when scouting, is dirt and could theoretically get muddy).

 4 
 on: Today at 12:49:24 PM 
Started by cl94 - Last post by vdeane
I'd recommend wearing clothes/shoes you don't mind getting dirty.
Question: how dirty are we talking about here?  I'm planning on sneakers for this one rather than my usual boots or flats (not that it's warm enough for the latter any more), but I don't really have "mud shoes" (or pants, etc.).  Plus I don't want to track stuff into my car or apartment.

Unfortunately, it seems like the forecast has gotten worse with much more pervasive rain.  Why does it seem like Saturday is usually worse than Sunday around here?

 5 
 on: Today at 12:48:21 PM 
Started by cpzilliacus - Last post by kalvado
A strange detail I noticed in the reports (it didn't take very long for me, heh) - group was heading to Ommegang brewery.
Which is quite a bit further west along either I-88 or NY-7 (they run pretty much in parallel).
However, there is no good reason to continue straight along NY-30 into the stretch where crash occurred. Driver should have turned right on a previous intersection at stop sign. Assuming they were coming from Amsterdam along NY-30, there is no TO I-88 shield on that arm of the intersection - but there is one on NY-7 just past the intersection, visible from the stop line on NY-30.
As someone who's driven between Amsterdam and Cooperstown a few times, I would further suggest that the best route is NY 30 -> US 20 -> NY 80, avoiding that area and I-88 altogether.  I have wondered if the group asked for an intermediate stop in Schoharie or something that caused this routing to be chosen.

They certainly couldn't have been headed directly from Amsterdam to that brewery, or they would likely never come near - and certainly not south of - I-88. Unless the driver missed the turn for NY 7, which isn't an outrageous possibility.
Anyone who assumes a limo or bus driver would take the most logical route hasn't spent much time riding in limos or buses.

I am not sure what is the most logical route for a vehicle as strange as a stretched limo. I did drive  in the area a few times, including Ommegang and entire Cooperstown beverage trail - and I had a few moments when I (in a pretty standard sedan) was thinking if I am actually going to make it on that road, or it is designed for 4x4 only.  I can see some logic in taking a detour to maximize interstate mileage and reduce local roads.
Difference between Google maps optimal routing (I-90 to NY-166)  and I-88 routing is 8 miles and 7 minutes; routing @Jim suggested is actually another 3 minutes slower.  And while US-20 is a nice drive, those NY routes through the hills are often less than great.
What I'm saying is that I've been on enough party buses that have gotten hopelessly lost that assuming the driver knows where they're going or how to get there in a hatchback, let alone a large vehicle that may not be able to travel on all roads in the area, is a fool's errand.
I've been on a scheduled city bus which was hopelessly lost, so I know what you're talking about.
However I still think that noticing a blue shield while stopped at the sign is not too much even for a limo driver. Hence I suspect  the problem with with brakes...

 6 
 on: Today at 12:39:27 PM 
Started by cpzilliacus - Last post by J N Winkler
I am not sure what is the most logical route for a vehicle as strange as a stretched limo. I did drive  in the area a few times, including Ommegang and entire Cooperstown beverage trail - and I had a few moments when I (in a pretty standard sedan) was thinking if I am actually going to make it on that road, or it is designed for 4x4 only.  I can see some logic in taking a detour to maximize interstate mileage and reduce local roads.

I did some preliminary exploring of route options in Google Maps and felt it would take much more evaluation (and possibly access to other tools and datasets) to find a route that stayed on Interstates/US routes/state routes except for last-mile connections while minimizing challenge to brake systems that would likely have been grossly underperforming even if they were in good working order (the NTSB has not yet had an opportunity to explore this dimension since they are being afforded only severely limited access to the vehicle while the criminal investigation is still open).

And quite aside from Abefroman329's comment about limo/party bus drivers' generally slipshod approach to route planning, there would not have been much time for route evaluation because the booking with Prestige was last-minute, made after a separate party bus provider had cancelled at the last minute, and the party of 10+ was already late for a reservation at Ommegang.  (I don't know what kind of financial penalties this would have involved, but I would bet they are much higher for large parties than for individuals or couples.)

 7 
 on: Today at 12:17:16 PM 
Started by cpzilliacus - Last post by abefroman329
A strange detail I noticed in the reports (it didn't take very long for me, heh) - group was heading to Ommegang brewery.
Which is quite a bit further west along either I-88 or NY-7 (they run pretty much in parallel).
However, there is no good reason to continue straight along NY-30 into the stretch where crash occurred. Driver should have turned right on a previous intersection at stop sign. Assuming they were coming from Amsterdam along NY-30, there is no TO I-88 shield on that arm of the intersection - but there is one on NY-7 just past the intersection, visible from the stop line on NY-30.
As someone who's driven between Amsterdam and Cooperstown a few times, I would further suggest that the best route is NY 30 -> US 20 -> NY 80, avoiding that area and I-88 altogether.  I have wondered if the group asked for an intermediate stop in Schoharie or something that caused this routing to be chosen.

They certainly couldn't have been headed directly from Amsterdam to that brewery, or they would likely never come near - and certainly not south of - I-88. Unless the driver missed the turn for NY 7, which isn't an outrageous possibility.
Anyone who assumes a limo or bus driver would take the most logical route hasn't spent much time riding in limos or buses.

I am not sure what is the most logical route for a vehicle as strange as a stretched limo. I did drive  in the area a few times, including Ommegang and entire Cooperstown beverage trail - and I had a few moments when I (in a pretty standard sedan) was thinking if I am actually going to make it on that road, or it is designed for 4x4 only.  I can see some logic in taking a detour to maximize interstate mileage and reduce local roads.
Difference between Google maps optimal routing (I-90 to NY-166)  and I-88 routing is 8 miles and 7 minutes; routing @Jim suggested is actually another 3 minutes slower.  And while US-20 is a nice drive, those NY routes through the hills are often less than great.
What I'm saying is that I've been on enough party buses that have gotten hopelessly lost that assuming the driver knows where they're going or how to get there in a hatchback, let alone a large vehicle that may not be able to travel on all roads in the area, is a fool's errand.

 8 
 on: Today at 12:16:33 PM 
Started by Scott5114 - Last post by oscar
Nabb => Bear (DE), photo previously played for Glasgow:


 9 
 on: Today at 12:14:06 PM 
Started by Roadwarriors79 - Last post by abefroman329
I just noticed ISTHA has been installing credit card readers in the cash lanes at toll plazas, so I assume they won’t be going to all-ETC any time soon.

Wow! You almost never see a credit card option at toll booths. The only toll roads I've known to accept credit cards are the Kansas Turnpike and the Indiana Toll Road.
The Dulles Greenway has had them, if not the entire time it has existed, then close to it.  Probably because the tolls are so high and, when it opened, ETC was in its infancy in the US.

 10 
 on: Today at 12:02:14 PM 
Started by Roadwarriors79 - Last post by kalvado
On the other hand, I will only be fully satisfied once the US and Canada combine all toll tags into one, inter-operable device. That's a hefty goal, but that's what I want.

I'm not sure efforts should stop even there--Mexico has toll roads with ETC too.  ETC interoperability is plausibly advantageous to the motorist throughout the entire extent of a paved road network that a given vehicle can reach without resorting to ferries for over-water crossings.  From this standpoint toll roads in the entirety of North and Central America (everything from Panama north) should be interoperable with each other, while there is no need to seek interoperability with any South American operators that have ETC (no road through the Darien Gap, RORO or container shipment of cars Houston-Cartagena possible but difficult to arrange, Panama City-Cartagena vehicle ferry a mirage), let alone any European or Asian ones.
Don't ask too much, you may get nothing after all. Getting things work smoothly within the USA is a good step anyway. That would, hopefully, create a good network and supply of equipment (tags and software) so joining existing system would be relatively easy....


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