Next state to raise speed limit to 80 mph

[Pink Jazz]

With some states now raising their speed limit to 80 mph (those states now being Idaho, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming), I was wondering, which state you think will be next?

My guess is that Montana would be the most likely.  Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, and South Dakota may also be possibilities.  Nevada is unlikely since they had a failed bill that would have raised the state speed limit.  Arizona may be a challenge, since there is a state law that any speed of 85 mph or higher is considered criminal speeding, regardless of the posted speed limit.  I don't see it being Louisiana or Maine either.

Note that my poll only includes states that currently have 75 mph speed limits.

[corco]

South Dakota is my guess. They'll do it quietly, with little fanfare.

Montana is also a possibility, since Montanans don't like speed limits, and two of the three states it borders with road access have 80 MPH speed limits.

I have reasons to be believe Montana won't be the next state:

1) Interstates in Montana are gnarlier than the ones in Idaho or Wyoming by a good stretch, and that could be a good reason not to raise the limit to 80. Idaho and Wyoming's interstates are more or less out in the high plains, with a couple little passes excepted (which are not 80, and in the case of I-90 in Idaho it's not 80 at all). Montana has several fairly substantial mountain passes along its interstates. Montana interstates are way sketchier than Idaho or Wyoming in winter.

2) Speed limit law in Montana. Montana classifies roads by type and assigns a blanket speed limit. To get a deviation from that speed limit, substantial engineering work at substantial cost has to be done. For this reason, speed limits already often don't make a lot of sense (70 MPH on US 212 over the Beartooth where it's completely impossible to even come close to 70 MPH is a good example of this). Right now the Speed Limit on rural interstates in Montana is 75, including in places like Lookout Pass, Pipestone Pass, I-15 from Butte to Great Falls, I-90 East of Bozeman, etc. There might be hesitation to raise to 80 simply because they don't want those stretches to be 80 and the work that is required by Montana law to get a deviation on a rural interstate is too costly to justify raising the limit.  There's only a couple places in the state where MDT has done the engineering work to legally justify a speed limit difference (US 93 south of Missoula, US 191 by Big Sky, MT 16 just north of Glendive) because it's just not cost effective unless there's stacks on stacks of accidents.

I suspect for the limit to be raised in Montana, the legislature will either have to give MDT the discretion to post interstates at 75 or 80, which is unprecedented (and I believe would require the modification of other standing regulation), or MDT will have to be comfortable allowing for an 80 MPH speed limit over some pretty crazy mountain passes. Otherwise, the benefits of a 5 MPH limit increase would be exceeded by the burden on the taxpayer, since it would be way more complicated than a simple sign swap.

In the case of Idaho, though, the legislature just said "80 MPH on everything rural but I-90 with a few limited exceptions" over the objections of both ITD (who has been actively lowering speed limits) and ISP (who like giving speeding tickets), so now the speed limit is 80 in places where I guarantee it wouldn't be if ITD had the discretion to choose where 80 zones are safe. Something similar could happen in Montana.

[Scott5114]

There is a Norman senator working on raising I-44 between OKC and Tulsa to 80 mph, but the design of the road makes it questionable in terms of safety unless major modernization work were done.

[halork]

I seem to remember someone posting that Arizona is already considering that

[Pink Jazz]

I seem to remember someone posting that Arizona is already considering that

That was 10 years ago, and that legislation failed.  In addition to raising the speed limit, it would have increased the criminal speeding threshold to 90 mph.

[jakeroot]

...speed limits already often don't make a lot of sense (70 MPH on US 212 over the Beartooth where it's completely impossible to even come close to 70 MPH is a good example of this).

I still feel there is a difference between a speed limit and a safe travel speed. Montana's US-212 is a great example a of a speed limit that, despite what you feel corco, I think makes sense; it's the maximum safe speed along that stretch of road.

But alas, this is not how speed limits are set in this country so my dream is a pipe one.

I also feel that blanket speed limits are a good idea. Constantly changing speed limits seem like a speed trap to me.

[corco]

I still feel there is a difference between a speed limit and a safe travel speed. Montana's US-212 is a great example a of a speed limit that, despite what you feel corco, I think makes sense; it's the maximum safe speed along that stretch of road.

Bwahahaha, if you go 70 down Beartooth Pass, you will drive off a cliff. My point is that that speed is actually impossible to reach on that stretch of highway. The maximum "safe" speed would be considerably less than that. The speed limit exists because it is a rural non-interstate highway, and therefore automatically has a 70 MPH speed limit.

[jakeroot]

I still feel there is a difference between a speed limit and a safe travel speed. Montana's US-212 is a great example a of a speed limit that, despite what you feel corco, I think makes sense; it's the maximum safe speed along that stretch of road.

Bwahahaha, if you go 70 down Beartooth Pass, you will drive off a cliff. My point is that that speed is actually impossible to reach on that stretch of highway. The maximum "safe" speed would be considerably less than that. The speed limit exists because it is a rural non-interstate highway, and therefore automatically has a 70 MPH speed limit.

I never suggested going down Beartooth Pass at 70 was a good idea...what I'm saying is that 70 would be the maximum safe speed you could reach at any one point along that road, even if the vast majority of the road is more or less safely driven at around 50. Besides, just looking at a map of Beartooth Pass suggests to me that, between the bends, 70 is easily achieved. However, that is a hunch because I have never driven it.

Also, Montana is like much of the industrialized world with its blanket speed limits. That suggests to me that the US is the minority in this case and constantly varying speed limits is perhaps more dangerous than definite ones.

[dfwmapper]

Nevada, for I-80 across most of the state and I-15 north of Vegas.

IIRC, Arizona changes from prima facie to absolute and civil to criminal once you cross 85mph, so increasing the speed limit beyond 75 there would require additional work so there's more than a 5mph buffer.

I also think Texas will expand 80mph limits to cover more than just SH130 and the far west portions of I-10 and I-20, at least once they're finished with all the studies to bump everything else they can to 75. If a 2 lane undivided rural road can safely handle 75, then there's no reason a rural freeway can't be even higher.

[rschen7754]

Montana did have "Reasonable and Prudent" during the 90s, until some court said no you can't do that...

[roadfro]

Nevada, for I-80 across most of the state and I-15 north of Vegas.

Yeah, I was hopeful too. But that bill died in the 2013 legislative session, and the earliest we could see a similar proposal would be the 2015 legislative session for implementation in 2016.

[KEK Inc.]

Oregon. 

[vdeane]

Montana is interesting because the reason they're 75 is because that was the fastest one could go in the US at the time they were forced to adopt a speed limit.  You can bet that if reasonable and prudent ended under current conditions that they would have adopted 80 (or 85) instead.

[Pink Jazz]

Oregon. 

Definitely won't be Oregon.  They are currently only 65 mph, and going straight to 80 mph would be a huge increase.

[texaskdog]

South Dakota is my guess. They'll do it quietly, with little fanfare.

Montana is also a possibility, since Montanans don't like speed limits, and two of the three states it borders with road access have 80 MPH speed limits.

I have reasons to be believe Montana won't be the next state:

1) Interstates in Montana are gnarlier than the ones in Idaho or Wyoming by a good stretch, and that could be a good reason not to raise the limit to 80. Idaho and Wyoming's interstates are more or less out in the high plains, with a couple little passes excepted (which are not 80, and in the case of I-90 in Idaho it's not 80 at all). Montana has several fairly substantial mountain passes along its interstates. Montana interstates are way sketchier than Idaho or Wyoming in winter.

2) Speed limit law in Montana. Montana classifies roads by type and assigns a blanket speed limit. To get a deviation from that speed limit, substantial engineering work at substantial cost has to be done. For this reason, speed limits already often don't make a lot of sense (70 MPH on US 212 over the Beartooth where it's completely impossible to even come close to 70 MPH is a good example of this). Right now the Speed Limit on rural interstates in Montana is 75, including in places like Lookout Pass, Pipestone Pass, I-15 from Butte to Great Falls, I-90 East of Bozeman, etc. There might be hesitation to raise to 80 simply because they don't want those stretches to be 80 and the work that is required by Montana law to get a deviation on a rural interstate is too costly to justify raising the limit.  There's only a couple places in the state where MDT has done the engineering work to legally justify a speed limit difference (US 93 south of Missoula, US 191 by Big Sky, MT 16 just north of Glendive) because it's just not cost effective unless there's stacks on stacks of accidents.

I suspect for the limit to be raised in Montana, the legislature will either have to give MDT the discretion to post interstates at 75 or 80, which is unprecedented (and I believe would require the modification of other standing regulation), or MDT will have to be comfortable allowing for an 80 MPH speed limit over some pretty crazy mountain passes. Otherwise, the benefits of a 5 MPH limit increase would be exceeded by the burden on the taxpayer, since it would be way more complicated than a simple sign swap.

.

When it was "reasonable and prudent" I drove in Montana just to go outragelously fast and I-90 had so many turns in it I didn't get much over 75 at all!

[Henry]

I'd say KS, because it's been done there before, when the speed limit on that state's Turnpike was 80 many years ago.

[corco]

Montana is interesting because the reason they're 75 is because that was the fastest one could go in the US at the time they were forced to adopt a speed limit.  You can bet that if reasonable and prudent ended under current conditions that they would have adopted 80 (or 85) instead.

Correlation does not equal causation. 75 was a logical speed limit for Montana. If they wanted to go higher they could have.

Reasonable and Prudent has a different meaning from a numbered speed limit. R&P means "You are responsible for determining a safe driving speed" whereas speed limit 75 is perceived by folks, rightly or wrongly, and especially on interstates as " We have determined for you that it is safe to drive 75, " so I really don't think it's fair to say that because MT used to not have speed limits, they are comfortable raising them. That doesn't mean that's not true, but it's a pretty big assumption to make.

[SD Mapman]

South Dakota is my guess. They'll do it quietly, with little fanfare.

That makes sense. From Box Elder to Mitchell there's really not a lot of traffic.

[vdeane]

Montana is interesting because the reason they're 75 is because that was the fastest one could go in the US at the time they were forced to adopt a speed limit.  You can bet that if reasonable and prudent ended under current conditions that they would have adopted 80 (or 85) instead.

Correlation does not equal causation. 75 was a logical speed limit for Montana. If they wanted to go higher they could have.

Reasonable and Prudent has a different meaning from a numbered speed limit. R&P means "You are responsible for determining a safe driving speed" whereas speed limit 75 is perceived by folks, rightly or wrongly, and especially on interstates as " We have determined for you that it is safe to drive 75, " so I really don't think it's fair to say that because MT used to not have speed limits, they are comfortable raising them. That doesn't mean that's not true, but it's a pretty big assumption to make.

People still equate speed limits with safety?  I thought that idea died with NMSL.

[corco]

Montana is interesting because the reason they're 75 is because that was the fastest one could go in the US at the time they were forced to adopt a speed limit.  You can bet that if reasonable and prudent ended under current conditions that they would have adopted 80 (or 85) instead.

Correlation does not equal causation. 75 was a logical speed limit for Montana. If they wanted to go higher they could have.

Reasonable and Prudent has a different meaning from a numbered speed limit. R&P means "You are responsible for determining a safe driving speed" whereas speed limit 75 is perceived by folks, rightly or wrongly, and especially on interstates as " We have determined for you that it is safe to drive 75, " so I really don't think it's fair to say that because MT used to not have speed limits, they are comfortable raising them. That doesn't mean that's not true, but it's a pretty big assumption to make.

People still equate speed limits with safety?  I thought that idea died with NMSL.

Sort of. Thanks to the NMSL, people think speed limits are below the maximum safe speed, so when they speed limit 75 they think they can easily, safely go 75, if not faster.

[Duke87]

And yet the idea that raising the speed limit makes everyone drive faster has been repeatedly debunked, so that isn't it, either.

West Virginia has plenty of twisty mountain roads posted at 55 that are intense to drive at 30. People don't drive these roads at the speed limit because people actually do know better.

If anything I'd imagine that for twisty roads it's probably better to have the limit a lot too high than a little too high. If the speed limit is a little too high, some misguided people might drive it. But if the speed limit is obviously too high, people aren't going to treat it as justification for going that fast.

[agentsteel53]

Nevada.  I'm surprised they haven't already.  85mph would make sense not just for I-80 but also a lot of the rural two-laners like US-93 and US-95.

[roadman65]

Why isn't Montana doing it considering their original Reasonable and Prudent speed zones?  I can see them dropping it down to 75 because the other states went 75, but when four states now have gone 80 you figure that they would reconsider raising it back up a little.

[Zeffy]

I think that most of the Northeastern states won't see a speed limit above 70 for about four decades. Not unless something major happens. I can think of several stretches of Interstate roadway where a 70 would be fine in the Northeastern US, but no, it's 65 or bust half of the time.

Nevada.  I'm surprised they haven't already.  85mph would make sense not just for I-80 but also a lot of the rural two-laners like US-93 and US-95.

I've looked at a lot of roads in Nevada and I definitely could see a number of them being safe enough for at least an 80 MPH speed limit. There's a portion of US 50 east of Carson City that is extremely straight that I could see easily being at least 75 if they aren't already (GMSV is very shoddy quality in this area), if not 80.

[roadman65]

PA does, or at least on the PA Turnpike for a stretch.