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Right-turn arrow with simultaneous opposing left-turn arrow

Started by kphoger, April 19, 2016, 02:16:05 PM

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roadfro

Quote from: jakeroot on January 24, 2019, 01:32:28 AM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 23, 2019, 08:52:44 PM
They should give FYA to the least traveled road.

That would be fine too.

Quote from: UCFKnights on January 23, 2019, 09:01:35 PM
Another simple solution would be to install the flexible plastic bollards between the 2 lanes to force vehicles into the correct lane, eliminating the conflict. i've seen that before (don't ask me where, it was a long time ago)

Given that there's no cross-traffic, that seems like a reasonable option too. I may even suggest it to WSDOT!

Quote from: Roadsguy on January 23, 2019, 05:26:25 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 23, 2019, 04:43:56 PM
Found a setup that is basically identical to the OP in Kingston, WA.

Two one-way streets meeting a major one-way street, but both one-way streets have green arrows at the same time for the turn onto the major one-way street. Only way this can safely work is if both cars turn into the near lane. Which they should, of course, but I still don't think this is permitted.

http://bit.ly/2U8CPnz (spin camera around to see the other signal)

I wouldn't have much issue with this if they were ordinary green signals, but a green arrow implies a protected turn, with any opposing traffic only making a turn on red in which they must yield. That's what makes this dangerous.

Another option could be to just paint some cat tracks or guide lines in the intersection to "force" the two directions into the near lanes. Possibly supplement with signage.

Although I like the idea of giving a direction FYA. They could put FYAs in both directions actually, and not do any other action.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.


UCFKnights

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 24, 2019, 08:07:36 AM
Quote from: UCFKnights on January 24, 2019, 07:22:43 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 24, 2019, 06:17:09 AM
Quote from: UCFKnights on January 23, 2019, 09:01:35 PM
Another simple solution would be to install the flexible plastic bollards between the 2 lanes to force vehicles into the correct lane, eliminating the conflict. i've seen that before (don't ask me where, it was a long time ago)

Assuming there's even an issue right now (in other words, it's been working fine until this was posted, now we're in search of a solution where a problem hasn't existed), the plastic bollards could only come out as far as it wouldn't interfere with cross traffic.

Also, they would limit large vehicles from turning properly, so they may not be a good solution anyway.
Just because it hasn't caused an accident doesn't mean its not an issue, there is still conflicting movements with green signals. There is no cross traffic permitted, so the bollards would help prevent that illegal manuever from happening, and they are flexible and typically pop right back up if a truck needs to go over them to make a turn, and they're cheap

Just because this was found out yesterday doesn't mean there has been or will be issues.

One of the fallacies in planning is finding out about something that has existed for years, and feeling the need to make corrections to it, even when corrections aren't needed.  Looking at Street View, this particular layout has been in existence since 2013.  There's no reason to split the lanes, especially for those coming up the ramp.

Not only that, but the opposing arrows here are completely lawful, as nothing is stated within the law that the arrows provide a protected movement.  Per https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.055 ,

Quote

Traffic control signal legend.

Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals exhibiting different colored lights, or colored lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian signals carrying a word or legend, and said lights shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians as follows:

(1) Green indication

(b) Vehicle operators facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may enter the intersection control area only to make the movement indicated by such arrow, or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time. Vehicle operators shall stop to allow other vehicles lawfully within the intersection control area to complete their movements. Vehicle operators shall also stop for pedestrians who are lawfully within the intersection control area as required by RCW 46.61.235(1).

So again, there's no issue with the issue as is, and introducing a hazard in the middle of the roadway, especially for the straight thru movement, is usually not advisable.
That doesn't change the fact the straight thru movement is still extremely dangerous as it would lead to wrong way driving, and the flexible bollards are designed to be non-destructive. The ones on the interstate near me seem to invoke almost no fear for those who wish to change lanes over them.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: UCFKnights on January 24, 2019, 11:15:14 AM
That doesn't change the fact the straight thru movement is still extremely dangerous as it would lead to wrong way driving, and the flexible bollards are designed to be non-destructive. The ones on the interstate near me seem to invoke almost no fear for those who wish to change lanes over them.

Such is the case in the unknown hundreds or thousands of cases where a street ends with an opposing one way street coming out.  In fact, many of the ones I'm familiar with don't even utilize arrows - just 'Do Not Enter' signage.



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