Dead End vs. No Outlet

[webny99]

For a single road, either could be used.  For more than one road in the subdivision, only No Outlet should be used.

Exactly 
I fail to see what is so complicated about that concept.

[MNHighwayMan]

For a single road, either could be used.  For more than one road in the subdivision, only No Outlet should be used.

Exactly 
I fail to see what is so complicated about that concept.

...which isn't what you said in your post above.

The difference seems fairly straightforward to me:

"Dead End" means no formal ending (or crossings) at all, not even a cul-de-sac; in other words, no oppurtunity to turn around beyond that point without using private property.
"No Outlet" could be a cul-de-sac, but it could also be an extensive neighborhood; it simply signifies that if you proceed beyond that point, you'll have to pass through it again to in order to exit. There could be any number of separate streets, but only one exit.

That means that "No Outlet" scenarios are the much more common of the two, and as such there are many more "No Outlet" signs. At least in areas with which I'm familiar, true dead ends are quite rare.

[webny99]

For a single road, either could be used.  For more than one road in the subdivision, only No Outlet should be used.

Exactly 
I fail to see what is so complicated about that concept.

...which isn't what you said in your post above.

I don't see anything contradictory. Either sign could be used for a single street and I would have no objections, as long as it was a true dead end.

My viewpoint differs in that I don't see cul-de-sac and dead end as synonyms. Dead End means you can't easily turn around - cul-de-sac means you can (because there's a circle).

No Outlet is a much more broadly applicable message, which was implied in my original post, as well as GaryV's post.

[JasonOfORoads]

In Quebec, what we would call a dead end is often posted as "Cul-de-sac." It doesn't mean a residential street that typically has a circular end the way it usually does in the USA.

I've also seen "Cul-de-sac" signs in Tigard, Oregon, the same city I saw both "Dead end" and "No outlet" used for the same street.

[DaBigE]

For a single road, either could be used.  For more than one road in the subdivision, only No Outlet should be used.

Exactly 
I fail to see what is so complicated about that concept.

...which isn't what you said in your post above.

I don't see anything contradictory. Either sign could be used for a single street and I would have no objections, as long as it was a true dead end.

My viewpoint differs in that I don't see cul-de-sac and dead end as synonyms. Dead End means you can't easily turn around - cul-de-sac means you can (because there's a circle).

Depends on what you're driving. 

[MNHighwayMan]

Also seems that he's never heard of a three-point turn...

[bzakharin]

I can only recall one "Dead End" sign in the parts of NJ I've frequented over time. Otherwise, it's always "No Outlet"

[webny99]

Also seems that he's never heard of a three-point turn...

I've certainly heard of three-point (K) turns - performing one is required on NYS road tests. My tendency to drive big vehicles, among other factors, means I avoid this type of u-turn as much as possible. The "easy/hard" side discussion isn't really relevant, and my points still stand regarding the difference between the two signs.

[DaBigE]

Also seems that he's never heard of a three-point turn...

I'd prefer not to be talked about as if I'm not here 

I've certainly heard of three-point (K) turns - performing one is required on NYS road tests. My tendency to drive big vehicles, among other factors, means I avoid this type of u-turn as much as possible. The "easy/hard" side discussion isn't really relevant, and my points still stand regarding the difference between the two signs.

"K" turn?? I think you mean a "Y" turn. And I hope there isn't a road test that doesn't require completing one (IMO, written/road tests have gotten too easy already...subject for a different topic). Never-mind the fact that the place my tester had me perform one I easily could have made a simple U-turn. Sorry, but if the ease factor isn't relevant, then you shouldn't have mentioned it.

EDIT: My-bad...should have googled it first. Never heard of it called a "K" turn before. "K" seems like a stretch. At least "Y" fits the 3-point aspect of the turn. Frankly, it looks closer to an "X" if anything.

[Big John]

"K" turn?? I think you mean a "Y" turn.

"K" turn is the same as "Y" turn, just different terminology in NY.

[webny99]

Never-mind the fact that the place my tester had me perform one I easily could have made a simple U-turn. Sorry, but if the ease factor isn't relevant, then you shouldn't have mentioned it.

Apparently, my original wording did not convey the message. My hope was that I'd impart some degree of understanding as to what a true dead end actually is - you have to use reverse, which you do not have to do at a cul-de-sac, or in any "no outlet" scenario.

Never heard of it called a "K" turn before. "K" seems like a stretch. At least "Y" fits the 3-point aspect of the turn. Frankly, it looks closer to an "X" if anything.

I agree it looks more like an X - but they're always called K-turns here in New York. I've never heard Y-turn before.

[1995hoo]

Whatever you call that type of turn, I didn't have to make one when I took the DMV road test.

[epzik8]

I consider Dead End to be a terminal street with no sort of formal turnaround, whereas No Outlet is more applicable to cul-de-sacs.

[myosh_tino]

"DEAD END" signs are a rather new thing here in California.  For the longest time urban streets that ended in a cul-de-sac had a "NOT A THROUGH STREET" sign posted. 

[MikeCL]

I know of one place that have changed from dead end to no outlet.. I'm not sure why the sign was up as dead end for years then they just changed it to no outlet.

[ErmineNotyours]

My grandmother hated the morbidity implied in "Dead end" signs, and much preferred British Columbia's "No Exit."  The point of "Dead end" over "No outlet" is that the road itself comes to a dead stop, with no turns or other options but to stop, so the driver should be prepared and driving at slow speeds.  I've seen signs that say "Dead end, XX miles ahead," by which time you may have forgotten that you may need to prepare for the end of the road.

[wxfree]

Around here, a dead end is a single road that ends and a no outlet is a system of roads with no way out other than the way in signed as "no outlet."

However, an additional use of "no outlet" is warning of what I call a WTF point.  A dubya-tee-eff point is what I call it when a two-way road ends at the same place where a one-way road ends, and the one-way is toward the two-way.  Traffic from the one-way road can turn onto the two-way road, but on the two-way you suddenly face a "do not enter" at the intersection and your only legal option is to turn around and go back.  I know of a few WTF points, but I know of only one road marked as "no outlet" at the intersection before the approach.  That was previously a through road and was broken by a freeway.  It now ends where the one-way frontage road from the left also ends, giving traffic toward the freeway no place to go.

[Revive 755]

I consider Dead End to be a terminal street with no sort of formal turnaround, whereas No Outlet is more applicable to cul-de-sacs.

I've heard and believed this explanation before.

Or perhaps a third option, "Street Not Thru" should be used for signing non through roadways.  Then there's the "Street Ends" variant used in Springfield, MO.

[Amtrakprod]

MA uses the No Outlet plaques, but it says DEAD END on the rhombus sign.

[Flint1979]

Michigan use both and there really isn't a difference between either one. To me though a no outlet is a street that ends and has other streets that might branch off it and end with no other way out than the way you came in. And a dead end is a street that just ends at a certain point.

[riiga]

I agree with the definition of No Outlet as a system of roads that are dead ends, while a Dead End is when the road will end without branching. For non-English speakers, I think Dead End is easier to understand though, at least I didn't initially understand why there were two ways of saying essentially the same thing on road signs, one just ends earlier than the other.

Ideally as someone suggested earlier, it could be replaced by a pictogram such as this.


Another related thing, are there any dead ends/no outlets (in the US) where the road continues but only for bikes/pedestrians? Is it still signed Dead End/No Oulet in that case?

[ErmineNotyours]

Another related thing, are there any dead ends/no outlets (in the US) where the road continues but only for bikes/pedestrians? Is it still signed Dead End/No Oulet in that case?

Not actually a dead end, because you can drive around the block and end up to the left of this photo.  https://goo.gl/maps/fm7q1CdR16F2

Reused sign, 2009, W Fort St. & 32nd Ave W, Seattle by Arthur Allen, on Flickr

[MikeCL]

I know a street near here that says that it's no outlet but you can turn the street before and it will dump you right back on the main road.

[US 81]

I remember 40-50 years ago in Texas, some rural lanes would have "Dead End" signs posted where the pavement ended, but there was a gravel or dirt road that would go thru to connect with another paved road. (None of the ones I remember exist now, so I can't link anything) I presume this was local usage that evolved into the standard signage of today.

[bzakharin]

Another related thing, are there any dead ends/no outlets (in the US) where the road continues but only for bikes/pedestrians? Is it still signed Dead End/No Oulet in that case?

I know of one such situation in Baltimore signed with "No thru street", black on white, which, as far as I know, is nonstandard. I know that "No thru traffic" is a prohibition rather than a statement, as in the road an an exit, but you can't use it for that purpose (good luck enforcing that).