Group Department Stores into five tiers

[Pink Jazz]

I know lately I have tried to avoid posting threads that I have posted on other forums, but considering there is an interest in retail on these forums based on the Kmart thread, I think it is worth posting here.  If you would group major department stores into five tiers, how would you group them, from high-end to low-end?

Here are my groupings.  Note that my tiers do not include off-price retailers, outlets, or warehouse clubs.

High-end:
Bloomingdale's
Nordstrom
Lord & Taylor
Neiman Marcus
Saks Fifth Avenue

Middle-High:
Macy's
Dillard's
Belk (flagship stores)

Mid-Range:
JCPenney
Kohl's
Belk (standard stores)

Middle-Low:
Sears

Low-End:
Walmart
Target
Kmart

[webny99]

The only outstanding one that I disagree with is that Target and Sears should be switched.

[oscar]

If you're not going to create a sixth "subterranean" tier for KMart, at least move WalMart and Target out of tier 5 into tier 4 (with Target more consistently belonging in tier 4 or maybe a little higher).

It's been a long time since I've been in a Sears (when I was last there, it would've been in tier 4), so I can't comment on webny99's suggestion that Sears be demoted to tier 5.

I would put Meijer and Fred Meyer in the same tier as Walmart, or maybe as Target if it goes into a different tier.

[1995hoo]

I'd put Bergdorf Goodman in the top tier, although maybe they don't qualify since they're not really a national or regional chain in the same manner as the others listed.

I think I'd move JC Penney down to the same tier as Sears. I have occasionally gone to Sears in recent years, though always to comparison-shop appliances or tools, and despite their financial issues I didn't think the store at Landmark Mall seemed like it had changed all that much (which is both good and bad, I guess!). I suppose the JC Penney at Springfield Mall maybe merits some nostalgia points from the time in the mid-1980s when the Prince and Princess of Wales (Charles and Diana) went shopping there, but on the whole I've always viewed JC Penney as generally comparable to Sears but without the auto center or the appliances.

[Big John]

I've always viewed JC Penney as generally comparable to Sears but without the auto center or the appliances.

The JCPenney around here (WI) has recently begun selling appliances.

[ftballfan]

I've always viewed JC Penney as generally comparable to Sears but without the auto center or the appliances.

The JCPenney around here (WI) has recently begun selling appliances.

Same in Michigan.

Also, I'd probably put Von Maur in the middle-high range and Target at a higher level than Walmart

[Rothman]

Walmart below Target.

[Pink Jazz]

I'd put Bergdorf Goodman in the top tier, although maybe they don't qualify since they're not really a national or regional chain in the same manner as the others listed.

I think I'd move JC Penney down to the same tier as Sears. I have occasionally gone to Sears in recent years, though always to comparison-shop appliances or tools, and despite their financial issues I didn't think the store at Landmark Mall seemed like it had changed all that much (which is both good and bad, I guess!). I suppose the JC Penney at Springfield Mall maybe merits some nostalgia points from the time in the mid-1980s when the Prince and Princess of Wales (Charles and Diana) went shopping there, but on the whole I've always viewed JC Penney as generally comparable to Sears but without the auto center or the appliances.

JCPenney does carry a few of the same brands that Kohl's does such as IZOD, which are more in the mid-range of the market.  JCPenney did also once try to compete with a partnership with Ralph Lauren with the American Living brand, which was comparable to the Chaps brand (also owned by Ralph Lauren) carried by Kohl's. In fact JCPenney considers Kohl's and Macy's to be its main rivals.

[MisterSG1]

I usually consider Walmart and the stores similar to it, Kmart, Target, etc, to be DISCOUNT stores, not department stores.

Nevertheless, kmart belongs in a tier all by themselves, no wonder they failed here in Canada 20 years ago.

[Takumi]

Echoing the idea that Target and Sears should be switched.

[adventurernumber1]

The only outstanding one that I disagree with is that Target and Sears should be switched. I'm prepared to defend that, of course, but I won't unless the need arises   

Echoing the idea that Target and Sears should be switched.

Same here. Perhaps Walmart should be moved up as well.

[Road Hog]

Yes, Walmart is a discount store, like Gibson's and Alco were back in the day in my neck of the woods. Walmart just did it better and put both of them mostly out of business. (I think Alco is on life support still.)

[Flint1979]

If you're not going to create a sixth "subterranean" tier for KMart, at least move WalMart and Target out of tier 5 into tier 4 (with Target more consistently belonging in tier 4 or maybe a little higher).

It's been a long time since I've been in a Sears (when I was last there, it would've been in tier 4), so I can't comment on webny99's suggestion that Sears be demoted to tier 5.

I would put Meijer and Fred Meyer in the same tier as Walmart, or maybe as Target if it goes into a different tier.

I'd put Meijer ahead of Walmart and I think I'd put Target ahead of Walmart too.

[Flint1979]

I've always viewed JC Penney as generally comparable to Sears but without the auto center or the appliances.

The JCPenney around here (WI) has recently begun selling appliances.

They use to sell appliances, hardware and had an auto center up until 1983.

[catch22]

I would split Macy's into both "middle-high" and "mid-range" depending on location.  Near me, for instance, there is a distinct difference between the Macy's stores in Novi (Twelve Oaks) and Troy (Somerset Collection) and the others such as Taylor (Southland).  The former stores carry clothing lines not found in the "neighborhood" mall stores and the stores are more up-to-date.  The latter is not much different from the JCPenney at the other end of the mall or the Kohl's in the mall's outlot, and is badly in need of a refresh - it hasn't been updated since the Hudson's era.

[webny99]

Also, I'd probably put Von Maur in the middle-high range and Target at a higher level than Walmart

Von Maur?
I've been to the Eastview location a few times, and at least from the service, the live piano player, and the general arrogance of the shoppers, it deserves a tier of its own above the existing top tier. I felt like a fool dressed in regular jeans and a t-shirt, for whatever that's worth.

[Max Rockatansky]

Target definitely shouldn't be in a low tier, Sears should. 

[webny99]

To me Target is middle-of-the-road; the stereotypical middle-class one-stop shop. There aren't really any negative connotations associated with Target. There's nothing bad about it, which is why I'd hesitate to rank it so low. Walmart, on the other hand, serves this function too but trends towards the bottom of the spectrum (although some newer locations are almost on par with your average Target). Walmart certainly has some negative connotations, like being dirty, cheap, low-quality at times, and so forth, though that tends to be subjective and can vary wildly based on location.

Sears is very... average, for lack of better terms. It's certainly not towards the top of the spectrum, but I'd venture to put it between Target and Walmart, if that were an option. The store itself is less inviting than Target, but I doubt that reflects product quality.

[webny99]

Echoing the idea that Target and Sears should be switched.

Same here. Perhaps Walmart should be moved up as well.

Target definitely shouldn't be in a low tier, Sears should. 

Well, looks like I don't need to waste time defending my original comment then 

[vdeane]

I suppose the question is, what is the criteria for classification?  Because if we're going by function, I would think Target, WalMart, and KMart would have more in common with each other, and Sears more with JCPenney and Macy's.

[Life in Paradise]

If I were to add a 6th category, I would put K-Mart there for a 70/80s cheap department store theme.  To me they would be about equal (or perhaps a shade below) Dollar General, Family Dollar, and Fred's.

[hbelkins]

I've always heard the term "department store" used to refer to outlets that sell apparel -- clothing and accessories -- and possibly appliances. Sears, Penney, former local stores such as McAlpin's and Shillito's, and the like would qualify. We have a local store with two locations that's called Rose Brothers Department Store (frequently informally referred to as Rose Bargain Store). They sell clothing, shoes, a few knick-knack items and possibly cologne/perfume.

I've never considered stores like Walmart, Kmart, Target, Meijer and the like to be "department stores" even though they have more departments than the classic department stores do.

[kkt]

I agree.  The "everything" stores that sell everything from groceries to cosmetics to housewares to clothes aren't really department stores, to me.  Department stores means clothes and shoes and maybe cosmetics, but not general housewares or groceries.

K-Mart and Sears are also in a special category as "walking dead".  But if you categorize them by what they used to be, say 10 years ago, I guess Sears would be mid-tier and K-Mart low tier.

[GaryV]

I've always heard the term "department store" used to refer to outlets that sell apparel -- clothing and accessories -- and possibly appliances. Sears, Penney, former local stores such as McAlpin's and Shillito's, and the like would qualify. We have a local store with two locations that's called Rose Brothers Department Store (frequently informally referred to as Rose Bargain Store). They sell clothing, shoes, a few knick-knack items and possibly cologne/perfume.

I've never considered stores like Walmart, Kmart, Target, Meijer and the like to be "department stores" even though they have more departments than the classic department stores do.

Of course department stores got their name from how they evolved.  You could go to one store to buy a dress, hat and shoes, in different "departments" of the store.  Rather than having to go to 3 different establishments.  The downside was that you bought what they had, rather than having something made or altered for you specifically.

My sense of a department store is one that has cash registers in the various departments*, rather than a checkout area at the exit doors.  Thus Macy's, Sears and Penney are department stores; Target and K-Mart are not.  At least in my mind.

* And I can recall that you were expected to pay for your purchases in the department where you found them.  Heaven help you if you took an item from the men's section to a cash register in women's.  They'd probably let you pay, but they weren't able to verify prices or sales items.  And you took returns to the area where you bought them as well, rather than to a central returns desk in the store.

[Pink Jazz]

I've always heard the term "department store" used to refer to outlets that sell apparel -- clothing and accessories -- and possibly appliances. Sears, Penney, former local stores such as McAlpin's and Shillito's, and the like would qualify. We have a local store with two locations that's called Rose Brothers Department Store (frequently informally referred to as Rose Bargain Store). They sell clothing, shoes, a few knick-knack items and possibly cologne/perfume.

I've never considered stores like Walmart, Kmart, Target, Meijer and the like to be "department stores" even though they have more departments than the classic department stores do.

Of course department stores got their name from how they evolved.  You could go to one store to buy a dress, hat and shoes, in different "departments" of the store.  Rather than having to go to 3 different establishments.  The downside was that you bought what they had, rather than having something made or altered for you specifically.

My sense of a department store is one that has cash registers in the various departments*, rather than a checkout area at the exit doors.  Thus Macy's, Sears and Penney are department stores; Target and K-Mart are not.  At least in my mind.

* And I can recall that you were expected to pay for your purchases in the department where you found them.  Heaven help you if you took an item from the men's section to a cash register in women's.  They'd probably let you pay, but they weren't able to verify prices or sales items.  And you took returns to the area where you bought them as well, rather than to a central returns desk in the store.

Our nearest Kohl's has two sets of checkout lanes at the exits.