Illinois notes

[paulthemapguy]

https://patch.com/illinois/plainfield/20-million-grant-fund-plainfields-143rd-street-extension

I have long lamented that there is no crossing of I-55 between Weber Road and Airport Road.  A large chunk of funding has been allocated for a connection of 143rd and Taylor Roads across I-55, a link we have needed for a very long time.  My girlfriend has friends who live along Taylor Road just east of I-55, and they are basically trapped from accessing any points to the north and west in any kind of efficient manner.  And with the major construction mess starting at the Weber/I-55 interchange next month, there's really going to be no good transportation options for people in that area in the coming two years.  Expect a big increase in traffic across the Airport Rd, Veterans Pkwy, and Renwick Rd crossings over I-55 in the coming couple years.

According to sources like the link posted above, the plan is to reroute IL-126 east along the 143rd corridor to a new interchange at I-55 (I would have to assume this is a full interchange given the 8-digit price tag).  Hooray!  This area could really use the interchange, the crossing of I-55, and the upgrade to IL-126's access, up to a full set of ramps.

Something doesn't seem right, though--this money is derived from the IDOT Competitive Freight Program.  This money is being funneled toward the 143rd St/IL-126 interchange and the I-80/US30 interchange.  I'm going to need someone to explain the connection between these two projects and the need to enhance freight transportation in Will County?  Especially when we have much bigger fish to fry with respect to giving trucks easier access to the two intermodal freight facilities.  How can Will County tout the title of "largest inland port," then divert all their freight infrastructure enhancement funds toward projects that have nothing to do with the port, especially when the infrastructure around the port is in dire need of improvement?  I know the county itself is working on securing some grants of their own...Is IDOT reliant on Will County securing their own bundle of funds to throw at the intermodal situation?  And if so, is that right to rely on county-level officials to seek support for projects that would indubitably have a statewide and even nationwide impact?

Things that would make more sense for freight transportation funding:  Repairing IL-53 from Laraway to I-80, bridge over the Des Plaines at Houbolt, the snubbed Illiana Expy

$20 million is included in a total of $54 million in funding for Will County projects from the IDOT Competitive Freight Program. Another $34 million will go to the reconstruction of the Interstate 80 and U.S. Route 30 interchange, expected to cost a total of $43 million. In a press release, Walsh said the interchange "has been noted for its history of large bottlenecks and safety concerns."

[ET21]

^ Speaking of the Cumberland flyover, it opened for Thursday's morning commute. Still have cleanup work to do and they've started on the westbound Kennedy lanes

Back to LED lighting talks

Awesome, I'm sure I'll get to experience it for myself when I'm driving for Uber this weekend, since all roads lead to (and from) O'Hare

Welp... portions are opened, rest will open by Thursday 9/27
https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20180920/new-cumberland-avenue-flyover-ramp-set-to-open-thursday

[Revive 755]

Just look at IDOT highways through the City of Schaumburg now. Every other roadway has LED lighting except for IDOTs main routes.

I think the lighting on IL 58 and IL 72 is actually Schaumburg's, and they haven't gotten around to changing it over to LED's yet.

And if IDOT was completely against LED lighting, they would not have updated one of their manuals to favor LED's over HPS (Memo regarding the BDE manual update).

[paulthemapguy]

Just look at IDOT highways through the City of Schaumburg now. Every other roadway has LED lighting except for IDOTs main routes.

I think the lighting on IL 58 and IL 72 is actually Schaumburg's, and they haven't gotten around to changing it over to LED's yet.

And if IDOT was completely against LED lighting, they would not have updated one of their manuals to favor LED's over HPS (Memo regarding the BDE manual update).

They probably aren't against it; they're just behind the times, like they are with anything.  The intent to transition is there; the actions to change the street lamps just have yet to take place.

[edwaleni]

Just look at IDOT highways through the City of Schaumburg now. Every other roadway has LED lighting except for IDOTs main routes.

I think the lighting on IL 58 and IL 72 is actually Schaumburg's, and they haven't gotten around to changing it over to LED's yet.

And if IDOT was completely against LED lighting, they would not have updated one of their manuals to favor LED's over HPS (Memo regarding the BDE manual update).

They probably aren't against it; they're just behind the times, like they are with anything.  The intent to transition is there; the actions to change the street lamps just have yet to take place.

There is an incentive for IDOT to wait to replace the sodium vapor fixtures.

Several years ago many local municipalities were hearing about the annual savings of switching to LEDs.

But the cost was way more than any of them could afford and consultants were telling them to wait.

As expected LED replacement costs have come down nearly 40% making those who waited reap a bigger deal.

So while IDOT is behind the curve, it is to their benefit to wait as prices continue to decline.

[Brandon]

Just look at IDOT highways through the City of Schaumburg now. Every other roadway has LED lighting except for IDOTs main routes.

I think the lighting on IL 58 and IL 72 is actually Schaumburg's, and they haven't gotten around to changing it over to LED's yet.

And if IDOT was completely against LED lighting, they would not have updated one of their manuals to favor LED's over HPS (Memo regarding the BDE manual update).

They probably aren't against it; they're just behind the times, like they are with anything.  The intent to transition is there; the actions to change the street lamps just have yet to take place.

There is an incentive for IDOT to wait to replace the sodium vapor fixtures.

Several years ago many local municipalities were hearing about the annual savings of switching to LEDs.

But the cost was way more than any of them could afford and consultants were telling them to wait.

As expected LED replacement costs have come down nearly 40% making those who waited reap a bigger deal.

So while IDOT is behind the curve, it is to their benefit to wait as prices continue to decline.

Given that it's IDOT, they'll wait 20-30 years before actually doing anything and buy equipment that's 10 years out of date.

[edwaleni]

Just look at IDOT highways through the City of Schaumburg now. Every other roadway has LED lighting except for IDOTs main routes.

I think the lighting on IL 58 and IL 72 is actually Schaumburg's, and they haven't gotten around to changing it over to LED's yet.

And if IDOT was completely against LED lighting, they would not have updated one of their manuals to favor LED's over HPS (Memo regarding the BDE manual update).

They probably aren't against it; they're just behind the times, like they are with anything.  The intent to transition is there; the actions to change the street lamps just have yet to take place.

There is an incentive for IDOT to wait to replace the sodium vapor fixtures.

Several years ago many local municipalities were hearing about the annual savings of switching to LEDs.

But the cost was way more than any of them could afford and consultants were telling them to wait.

As expected LED replacement costs have come down nearly 40% making those who waited reap a bigger deal.

So while IDOT is behind the curve, it is to their benefit to wait as prices continue to decline.

Given that it's IDOT, they'll wait 20-30 years before actually doing anything and buy equipment that's 10 years out of date.

You are much too optimistic.

IDOT will let the contracts and then they will get sued by some group trying to save Bartletts Blind Bat because the LED's interfere with their mating rituals that occur 3 days out of the year.

[inkyatari]

https://patch.com/illinois/plainfield/20-million-grant-fund-plainfields-143rd-street-extension

I have long lamented that there is no crossing of I-55 between Weber Road and Airport Road.  A large chunk of funding has been allocated for a connection of 143rd and Taylor Roads across I-55, a link we have needed for a very long time.  My girlfriend has friends who live along Taylor Road just east of I-55, and they are basically trapped from accessing any points to the north and west in any kind of efficient manner.  And with the major construction mess starting at the Weber/I-55 interchange next month, there's really going to be no good transportation options for people in that area in the coming two years.  Expect a big increase in traffic across the Airport Rd, Veterans Pkwy, and Renwick Rd crossings over I-55 in the coming couple years.

According to sources like the link posted above, the plan is to reroute IL-126 east along the 143rd corridor to a new interchange at I-55 (I would have to assume this is a full interchange given the 8-digit price tag).  Hooray!  This area could really use the interchange, the crossing of I-55, and the upgrade to IL-126's access, up to a full set of ramps.

Something doesn't seem right, though--this money is derived from the IDOT Competitive Freight Program.  This money is being funneled toward the 143rd St/IL-126 interchange and the I-80/US30 interchange.  I'm going to need someone to explain the connection between these two projects and the need to enhance freight transportation in Will County?  Especially when we have much bigger fish to fry with respect to giving trucks easier access to the two intermodal freight facilities.  How can Will County tout the title of "largest inland port," then divert all their freight infrastructure enhancement funds toward projects that have nothing to do with the port, especially when the infrastructure around the port is in dire need of improvement?  I know the county itself is working on securing some grants of their own...Is IDOT reliant on Will County securing their own bundle of funds to throw at the intermodal situation?  And if so, is that right to rely on county-level officials to seek support for projects that would indubitably have a statewide and even nationwide impact?

Things that would make more sense for freight transportation funding:  Repairing IL-53 from Laraway to I-80, bridge over the Des Plaines at Houbolt, the snubbed Illiana Expy

$20 million is included in a total of $54 million in funding for Will County projects from the IDOT Competitive Freight Program. Another $34 million will go to the reconstruction of the Interstate 80 and U.S. Route 30 interchange, expected to cost a total of $43 million. In a press release, Walsh said the interchange "has been noted for its history of large bottlenecks and safety concerns."

Here's the project page.  the 143rd street option makes the most sense to me, then they could extend the route to Weber Rd.

http://www.airportand126study.org/

[ChiMilNet]

Just look at IDOT highways through the City of Schaumburg now. Every other roadway has LED lighting except for IDOTs main routes.

I think the lighting on IL 58 and IL 72 is actually Schaumburg's, and they haven't gotten around to changing it over to LED's yet.

And if IDOT was completely against LED lighting, they would not have updated one of their manuals to favor LED's over HPS (Memo regarding the BDE manual update).

They probably aren't against it; they're just behind the times, like they are with anything.  The intent to transition is there; the actions to change the street lamps just have yet to take place.

There is an incentive for IDOT to wait to replace the sodium vapor fixtures.

Several years ago many local municipalities were hearing about the annual savings of switching to LEDs.

But the cost was way more than any of them could afford and consultants were telling them to wait.

As expected LED replacement costs have come down nearly 40% making those who waited reap a bigger deal.

So while IDOT is behind the curve, it is to their benefit to wait as prices continue to decline.

Given that it's IDOT, they'll wait 20-30 years before actually doing anything and buy equipment that's 10 years out of date.

You are much too optimistic.

IDOT will let the contracts and then they will get sued by some group trying to save Bartletts Blind Bat because the LED's interfere with their mating rituals that occur 3 days out of the year.

I just would like someone to explain why IDOT continues to put in new installations with sodium vapor to this day then. If I saw that new installations were being put in with LEDs, then OK. Again, I go back to the example at the I-290 IL-390 interchange. The Tollway... All LED, IDOT... sodium vapor (not to mention IDOT can't even use light pole styles that at least somewhat match the tollway's anymore, but that's a whole other discussion). Another example of this, Elmhurst Road interchange at I-90. I just find it too much of a coincidence that it is only the IDOT roadways in Schaumburg (and elsewhere) that continue to have the sodium vapor. That's great its in a manual, but when it starkly contrasts with the tollway's installation at a reconstruction, then I just have to question... why not use LED lighting there. IDOT always claims a money shortage, but if it'll save them money in the long run with LED lights, then start putting them in on new installations at least!

[edwaleni]

Just look at IDOT highways through the City of Schaumburg now. Every other roadway has LED lighting except for IDOTs main routes.

I think the lighting on IL 58 and IL 72 is actually Schaumburg's, and they haven't gotten around to changing it over to LED's yet.

And if IDOT was completely against LED lighting, they would not have updated one of their manuals to favor LED's over HPS (Memo regarding the BDE manual update).

They probably aren't against it; they're just behind the times, like they are with anything.  The intent to transition is there; the actions to change the street lamps just have yet to take place.

There is an incentive for IDOT to wait to replace the sodium vapor fixtures.

Several years ago many local municipalities were hearing about the annual savings of switching to LEDs.

But the cost was way more than any of them could afford and consultants were telling them to wait.

As expected LED replacement costs have come down nearly 40% making those who waited reap a bigger deal.

So while IDOT is behind the curve, it is to their benefit to wait as prices continue to decline.

Given that it's IDOT, they'll wait 20-30 years before actually doing anything and buy equipment that's 10 years out of date.

You are much too optimistic.

IDOT will let the contracts and then they will get sued by some group trying to save Bartletts Blind Bat because the LED's interfere with their mating rituals that occur 3 days out of the year.

I just would like someone to explain why IDOT continues to put in new installations with sodium vapor to this day then. If I saw that new installations were being put in with LEDs, then OK. Again, I go back to the example at the I-290 IL-390 interchange. The Tollway... All LED, IDOT... sodium vapor (not to mention IDOT can't even use light pole styles that at least somewhat match the tollway's anymore, but that's a whole other discussion). Another example of this, Elmhurst Road interchange at I-90. I just find it too much of a coincidence that it is only the IDOT roadways in Schaumburg (and elsewhere) that continue to have the sodium vapor. That's great its in a manual, but when it starkly contrasts with the tollway's installation at a reconstruction, then I just have to question... why not use LED lighting there. IDOT always claims a money shortage, but if it'll save them money in the long run with LED lights, then start putting them in on new installations at least!

As for IDOT and road LED's, I went to the source and here is the reply.

Dear Mr. -------

Thank you for your webmail concerning replacement of sodium vapor lights with LED modules.  IDOT is very interested in cost savings achievable with LED highway lighting.  Research with the manufacturers of these modules is currently in progress, as there are some technical hurdles to overcome before widespread implementation of LED technology for overhead lighting.  Technical problems include ensuring lighting meets standards for coverage and glare, longevity of the modules, total life cycle cost is an improvement over the old technology, and problems with the electronics that drive the LED modules.

If you have further questions, feel free to contact me at Marshall.Metcalf@Illinois.gov or 217-782-3450.

Marshall R. Metcalf, P.E.

Project Implementation Unit Chief

Bureau of Operations

2300 South Dirksen Parkway

Springfield, IL  62764

[Brandon]

As for IDOT and road LED's, I went to the source and here is the reply.

Dear Mr. -------

Thank you for your webmail concerning replacement of sodium vapor lights with LED modules.  IDOT is very interested in cost savings achievable with LED highway lighting.  Research with the manufacturers of these modules is currently in progress, as there are some technical hurdles to overcome before widespread implementation of LED technology for overhead lighting.  Technical problems include ensuring lighting meets standards for coverage and glare, longevity of the modules, total life cycle cost is an improvement over the old technology, and problems with the electronics that drive the LED modules.

If you have further questions, feel free to contact me at Marshall.Metcalf@Illinois.gov or 217-782-3450.

Marshall R. Metcalf, P.E.

Project Implementation Unit Chief

Bureau of Operations

2300 South Dirksen Parkway

Springfield, IL  62764

In other words, unlike ISTHA, the municipalities, and the counties, we'll get around to it when it finally bites us in the ass.  If they were really interested in the "technical problems", they could just ask ISTHA.

[SSOWorld]

As for IDOT and road LED's, I went to the source and here is the reply.

Dear Mr. -------

Thank you for your webmail concerning replacement of sodium vapor lights with LED modules.  IDOT is very interested in cost savings achievable with LED highway lighting.  Research with the manufacturers of these modules is currently in progress, as there are some technical hurdles to overcome before widespread implementation of LED technology for overhead lighting.  Technical problems include ensuring lighting meets standards for coverage and glare, longevity of the modules, total life cycle cost is an improvement over the old technology, and problems with the electronics that drive the LED modules.

If you have further questions, feel free to contact me at Marshall.Metcalf@Illinois.gov or 217-782-3450.

Marshall R. Metcalf, P.E.

Project Implementation Unit Chief

Bureau of Operations

2300 South Dirksen Parkway

Springfield, IL  62764

In other words, unlike ISTHA, the municipalities, and the counties, we'll get around to it when it finally bites us in the ass.  If they were really interested in the "technical problems", they could just ask ISTHA.

IDiOT doesn't like to share.

[paulthemapguy]

I think the issue is that IDOT probably has a lot of sodium vapor or other old hardware sitting around in stock rooms, and that stock needs to be depleted before they install the new type of lighting.  I know that if the agency I work for switches to a new type of signage or traffic control, the stuff that's been lying around for years still needs to be used up before we switch to installing the new high-tech elements.

With that said, I did see some LED lamps installed on Weber Road the other day in Crest Hill.

[mgk920]

I think the issue is that IDOT probably has a lot of sodium vapor or other old hardware sitting around in stock rooms, and that stock needs to be depleted before they install the new type of lighting.  I know that if the agency I work for switches to a new type of signage or traffic control, the stuff that's been lying around for years still needs to be used up before we switch to installing the new high-tech elements.

With that said, I did see some LED lamps installed on Weber Road the other day in Crest Hill.

Also, don't HPS lamps and fixtures tend to be highly reliable?

Mike

[Brandon]

I think the issue is that IDOT probably has a lot of sodium vapor or other old hardware sitting around in stock rooms, and that stock needs to be depleted before they install the new type of lighting.  I know that if the agency I work for switches to a new type of signage or traffic control, the stuff that's been lying around for years still needs to be used up before we switch to installing the new high-tech elements.

With that said, I did see some LED lamps installed on Weber Road the other day in Crest Hill.

I those may have been installed by the City of Crest Hill, or by Will County.

[edwaleni]

The FHWA Guide to Lighting is an online guide and there is even a web based tutorial.

  https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/roadway_dept/night_visib/lighting_handbook/

[ChiMilNet]

As for IDOT and road LED's, I went to the source and here is the reply.

Dear Mr. -------

Thank you for your webmail concerning replacement of sodium vapor lights with LED modules.  IDOT is very interested in cost savings achievable with LED highway lighting.  Research with the manufacturers of these modules is currently in progress, as there are some technical hurdles to overcome before widespread implementation of LED technology for overhead lighting.  Technical problems include ensuring lighting meets standards for coverage and glare, longevity of the modules, total life cycle cost is an improvement over the old technology, and problems with the electronics that drive the LED modules.

If you have further questions, feel free to contact me at Marshall.Metcalf@Illinois.gov or 217-782-3450.

Marshall R. Metcalf, P.E.

Project Implementation Unit Chief

Bureau of Operations

2300 South Dirksen Parkway

Springfield, IL  62764

In other words, unlike ISTHA, the municipalities, and the counties, we'll get around to it when it finally bites us in the ass.  If they were really interested in the "technical problems", they could just ask ISTHA.

Interesting response, and yes, I am not buying it either. Just ask the other surrounding states, Tollway, local municipalities, City of Chicago, etc. Lame response, and and honestly, that would be my response back to them, although I may write this individual at IDOT with those questions to challenge them. Likely, they probably have a bunch stocked up or some antiquated contract.

[edwaleni]

As for IDOT and road LED's, I went to the source and here is the reply.

Dear Mr. -------

Thank you for your webmail concerning replacement of sodium vapor lights with LED modules.  IDOT is very interested in cost savings achievable with LED highway lighting.  Research with the manufacturers of these modules is currently in progress, as there are some technical hurdles to overcome before widespread implementation of LED technology for overhead lighting.  Technical problems include ensuring lighting meets standards for coverage and glare, longevity of the modules, total life cycle cost is an improvement over the old technology, and problems with the electronics that drive the LED modules.

If you have further questions, feel free to contact me at Marshall.Metcalf@Illinois.gov or 217-782-3450.

Marshall R. Metcalf, P.E.

Project Implementation Unit Chief

Bureau of Operations

2300 South Dirksen Parkway

Springfield, IL  62764

In other words, unlike ISTHA, the municipalities, and the counties, we'll get around to it when it finally bites us in the ass.  If they were really interested in the "technical problems", they could just ask ISTHA.

Interesting response, and yes, I am not buying it either. Just ask the other surrounding states, Tollway, local municipalities, City of Chicago, etc. Lame response, and and honestly, that would be my response back to them, although I may write this individual at IDOT with those questions to challenge them. Likely, they probably have a bunch stocked up or some antiquated contract.

My inquiry was apparently circulated up into IL Dept of Revenue, IDOT Administration and IDOT Technology.

I sent them a study on a HPS to LED migration done by the City of Phoenix in 2013 as context.

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/silsby_msslc-phoenix2013.pdf

I ran the numbers from the Phoenix study and they haven't changed much going into 2018.

8 year payback. $6 Million in net savings in 10 Years by updating 97,000 fixtures. 

Let's see what happens.

[ChiMilNet]

As for IDOT and road LED's, I went to the source and here is the reply.

Dear Mr. -------

Thank you for your webmail concerning replacement of sodium vapor lights with LED modules.  IDOT is very interested in cost savings achievable with LED highway lighting.  Research with the manufacturers of these modules is currently in progress, as there are some technical hurdles to overcome before widespread implementation of LED technology for overhead lighting.  Technical problems include ensuring lighting meets standards for coverage and glare, longevity of the modules, total life cycle cost is an improvement over the old technology, and problems with the electronics that drive the LED modules.

If you have further questions, feel free to contact me at Marshall.Metcalf@Illinois.gov or 217-782-3450.

Marshall R. Metcalf, P.E.

Project Implementation Unit Chief

Bureau of Operations

2300 South Dirksen Parkway

Springfield, IL  62764

In other words, unlike ISTHA, the municipalities, and the counties, we'll get around to it when it finally bites us in the ass.  If they were really interested in the "technical problems", they could just ask ISTHA.

Interesting response, and yes, I am not buying it either. Just ask the other surrounding states, Tollway, local municipalities, City of Chicago, etc. Lame response, and and honestly, that would be my response back to them, although I may write this individual at IDOT with those questions to challenge them. Likely, they probably have a bunch stocked up or some antiquated contract.

My inquiry was apparently circulated up into IL Dept of Revenue, IDOT Administration and IDOT Technology.

I sent them a study on a HPS to LED migration done by the City of Phoenix in 2013 as context.

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/silsby_msslc-phoenix2013.pdf

I ran the numbers from the Phoenix study and they haven't changed much going into 2018.

8 year payback. $6 Million in net savings in 10 Years by updating 97,000 fixtures. 

Let's see what happens.

Very curious what they'll say to that. Also, I wonder if there is any data available from the Illinois Tollway, for example, on portions of the Tollways already converted. I-90 is a little unique as additional lighting was added with the LED installations, but I doubt that they would have lit it up as much had it been older sodium vapor lighting.

[edwaleni]

Well, here is ISTHA's 2018 highway lighting manual.

https://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/20184/473059/GuidelinesForRoadwayIllumination_Mar2018/b2785ec3-6e2e-44ca-81e9-84216c4c8a87?version=1.3

It can't get more explicit than this in section 8.5

Roadway, ramp and toll plaza approach/departure lighting systems shall utilize light emitting diode
(LED) luminaires or 400 watt flat-lens high pressure sodium (HPS) cobra head luminaires as
directed by the Illinois Tollway.

Underpass lighting systems shall utilize LED luminaires or 150 watt HPS luminaires as directed
by the Illinois Tollway.

Overhead sign structure lighting systems shall utilize LED luminaires.

On any improvement where the new lighting system utilizes LED luminaires, all existing HPS
luminaires within the project limits (begin milepost to end milepost) must be replaced with new
LED luminaires even if there is no adjacent pavement work occurring. For example, if an
interchange or toll plaza is located within the project limits where the work only extends for a
portion of the ramp or plaza approach/departures, the existing lighting systems beyond the limits
of the work should be replaced. If complete replacement of the existing lighting system beyond
the limits of the project work is not feasible, the existing lighting system beyond these limits should
be rehabilitated including new LED luminaires and wiring utilizing the existing poles, mast arms,
foundations and conduit. Designer shall verify that the existing light standard layout will provide
adequate illumination levels for the luminaire specified.

It goes on and explicitly lays out the ground rules for LED installs for "any" roadway enhancement, including a resurfacing.

Sounds pretty straightforward to me. HPS should be the exception, LED should be the rule according to ISTHA.

[edwaleni]

The latest IDOT Highway Lightning Manual does relate to LED's, but mostly in electrical terms.

http://www.idot.illinois.gov/assets/uploads/files/doing-business/manuals-split/design-and-environment/bde-manual/chapter%2056%20highway%20lighting.pdf

Section 56.1 speaks to electric standards and 56.3 speaks to optics.

The rest only speaks to "if" LED's are used.

I would gather by the language of this guide is that they are leaving it up to each district and if they get a quote for the use of LED's, here are the rules.

There is no language that mandates one lighting type over the other like ISTHA does in their manual.

IDOT ratified this guide in January 2018. ISTHA ratified theirs in March 2018.  ISTHA specifically states that if not specified they must follow all IDOT illumination requirements.

[ChiMilNet]

Well, here is ISTHA's 2018 highway lighting manual.

https://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/20184/473059/GuidelinesForRoadwayIllumination_Mar2018/b2785ec3-6e2e-44ca-81e9-84216c4c8a87?version=1.3

It can't get more explicit than this in section 8.5

Roadway, ramp and toll plaza approach/departure lighting systems shall utilize light emitting diode
(LED) luminaires or 400 watt flat-lens high pressure sodium (HPS) cobra head luminaires as
directed by the Illinois Tollway.

Underpass lighting systems shall utilize LED luminaires or 150 watt HPS luminaires as directed
by the Illinois Tollway.

Overhead sign structure lighting systems shall utilize LED luminaires.

On any improvement where the new lighting system utilizes LED luminaires, all existing HPS
luminaires within the project limits (begin milepost to end milepost) must be replaced with new
LED luminaires even if there is no adjacent pavement work occurring. For example, if an
interchange or toll plaza is located within the project limits where the work only extends for a
portion of the ramp or plaza approach/departures, the existing lighting systems beyond the limits
of the work should be replaced. If complete replacement of the existing lighting system beyond
the limits of the project work is not feasible, the existing lighting system beyond these limits should
be rehabilitated including new LED luminaires and wiring utilizing the existing poles, mast arms,
foundations and conduit. Designer shall verify that the existing light standard layout will provide
adequate illumination levels for the luminaire specified.

It goes on and explicitly lays out the ground rules for LED installs for "any" roadway enhancement, including a resurfacing.

Sounds pretty straightforward to me. HPS should be the exception, LED should be the rule according to ISTHA.

Let's make this simple, IDOT just needs to completely adopt the Tollways lighting standards and design, right down to the exact light poles and luminaries used. The lighting on the Tollway is just better, and this exemplifies why. The Tollway also is going about it smart. They replace with LEDs on reconstruction or where designated, but doing it bits at a time. In some states, I see random LEDs thrown in with HPS, so it makes sense to just to it all as LED if replacing any lights.

[paulthemapguy]

Let's make this simple, IDOT just needs to completely adopt the Tollways lighting standards and design, right down to the exact light poles and luminaries used. The lighting on the Tollway is just better, and this exemplifies why. The Tollway also is going about it smart. They replace with LEDs on reconstruction or where designated, but doing it bits at a time. In some states, I see random LEDs thrown in with HPS, so it makes sense to just to it all as LED if replacing any lights.

I think you'll find that the difference in quality between ISTHA and IDOT roads is largely because of the difference in funding, rather than the difference in standards.

[edwaleni]

Let's make this simple, IDOT just needs to completely adopt the Tollways lighting standards and design, right down to the exact light poles and luminaries used. The lighting on the Tollway is just better, and this exemplifies why. The Tollway also is going about it smart. They replace with LEDs on reconstruction or where designated, but doing it bits at a time. In some states, I see random LEDs thrown in with HPS, so it makes sense to just to it all as LED if replacing any lights.

I think you'll find that the difference in quality between ISTHA and IDOT roads is largely because of the difference in funding, rather than the difference in standards.

Highway construction is usually awarded by bid. lowest bid typically wins.

If a contractor bids LED's which can show a higher amount, the chances of winning decline.

So they go HPS.

In IDOT's case they should be more explicit like the tollway for bids going forward. LED over HPS.

For IDOT to tackle a HPS to LED project it would require a significant defined allocation in a TEA legislation. This would have the cost covered 80% by the Feds.

To get that kind of funding, you would need cooperation between FHWA, Illinois Congressional Delegation, DOT, IDOT and the utilities to amass the needed momentum and lobbying power.

[Brandon]

Let's make this simple, IDOT just needs to completely adopt the Tollways lighting standards and design, right down to the exact light poles and luminaries used. The lighting on the Tollway is just better, and this exemplifies why. The Tollway also is going about it smart. They replace with LEDs on reconstruction or where designated, but doing it bits at a time. In some states, I see random LEDs thrown in with HPS, so it makes sense to just to it all as LED if replacing any lights.

I think you'll find that the difference in quality between ISTHA and IDOT roads is largely because of the difference in funding, rather than the difference in standards.

Highway construction is usually awarded by bid. lowest bid typically wins.

It's also in what and how you specify.  If you leave the specifications open, like IDOT does, then you get crap.  If you specify LEDs and other like items, you will get properly comparable bids with the specifications you want, and then choose the lowest bid with those specifications.  I know, I write specifications for jobs quite commonly.  I get the feeling that ISTHA's specifications are much tighter than IDOT's specifications.