So, we all know that US 67 will be improved to Interstate Standards, but looking at Google Maps, it looks as if US 62 could be used near Pocahontas for continuation of the alignment right on into Missouri.
Not that this is the case... I just wanted to check to see what 67 looked like near the AR-MO line.
Thoughts?
Walnut Ridge-Poplar Bluff is still, for the most part, still up in the air as regards an actual alignment; Pocahontas, AFAIK, hasn't weighed in yet as to whether they'd prefer a routing that more or less directly served their town. The alternate involves AR 34 and AR 90 and follows the UP main line across the Black River floodplain south of Corning (its narrowest point). That needs to be determined before any state line crossing point is established; and the AR and MO DOT's need to coordinate their separate efforts. None of this is likely to be finalized this decade; considering MO's dire straits as of late, if anything is done by 2030 it'll be a miracle.
Quote from: sparker on April 12, 2018, 07:18:52 PM
Walnut Ridge-Poplar Bluff is still, for the most part, still up in the air as regards an actual alignment; Pocahontas, AFAIK, hasn't weighed in yet as to whether they'd prefer a routing that more or less directly served their town. The alternate involves AR 34 and AR 90 and follows the UP main line across the Black River floodplain south of Corning (its narrowest point). That needs to be determined before any state line crossing point is established; and the AR and MO DOT's need to coordinate their separate efforts. None of this is likely to be finalized this decade; considering MO's dire straits as of late, if anything is done by 2030 it'll be a miracle.
It would seem to me that Walnut Ridge-Corning-Poplar Bluff might make the most sense. But given ARDOT's finances, it will be a long time before they even come up with a list of alternatives.
When was the last time they even discussed any freeway alignment north of Walnut Ridge? It has to have been at least a few years.
Quote from: I-39 on April 12, 2018, 09:25:57 PM
When was the last time they even discussed any freeway alignment north of Walnut Ridge? It has to have been at least a few years.
It's been a while...not sure now long.
THIS is why it should have been called I-30. It might not be finished to Sikeston for many decades now. It connects to I-30 right now and has for years. It was short-sightedness to name it I-57 which now has a gap in it than to name it I-30 which would not have a gap.
Quote from: I-39 on April 12, 2018, 09:25:57 PM
When was the last time they even discussed any freeway alignment north of Walnut Ridge? It has to have been at least a few years.
What's needed is for AR and MO to start a joint feasibility study to identify possible corridors. This is not a particularly expensive thing to do and it doesn't bind either state.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on April 15, 2018, 06:30:46 PM
Quote from: I-39 on April 12, 2018, 09:25:57 PM
When was the last time they even discussed any freeway alignment north of Walnut Ridge? It has to have been at least a few years.
What's needed is for AR and MO to start a joint feasibility study to identify possible corridors. This is not a particularly expensive thing to do and it doesn't bind either state.
IIRC, some preliminary corridor identification has already been done -- with the two principal suggested alternative corridors being the ones cited earlier. Nevertheless, both inaction by MODOT re a coordinated effort as well as potential local political issues regarding the Pocahontas area have delayed any further activities toward narrowing down a route selection. And AR's already got a lot on its plate right now -- so don't expect much in the way of prompt action on this particular project.
Quote from: bugo on April 15, 2018, 05:22:20 PM
THIS is why it should have been called I-30. It might not be finished to Sikeston for many decades now. It connects to I-30 right now and has for years. It was short-sightedness to name it I-57 which now has a gap in it than to name it I-30 which would not have a gap.
Complain to John Boozman.
I-30 is excoriated enough as it is (at least within much of the roadgeek arena) for being a too-short waste of a designation ending in zero. Giving it an ignominious terminus outside of a small town in NE Arkansas would be adding insult to injury.
Quote from: sparker on April 15, 2018, 08:44:32 PM
I-30 is excoriated enough as it is (at least within much of the roadgeek arena) for being a too-short waste of a designation ending in zero. Giving it an ignominious terminus outside of a small town in NE Arkansas would be adding insult to injury.
An interstate with a gap that isn't likely to be filled for decades if ever is better?
Quote from: bugo on April 15, 2018, 09:03:14 PM
Quote from: sparker on April 15, 2018, 08:44:32 PM
I-30 is excoriated enough as it is (at least within much of the roadgeek arena) for being a too-short waste of a designation ending in zero. Giving it an ignominious terminus outside of a small town in NE Arkansas would be adding insult to injury.
An interstate with a gap that isn't likely to be filled for decades if ever is better?
The question regarding numbering is a moot point. Agree or disagree with it, nothing can really be done to change it.
Sure it can. Lots of highways have been renumbered.
Quote from: US71 on April 15, 2018, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: bugo on April 15, 2018, 09:03:14 PM
Quote from: sparker on April 15, 2018, 08:44:32 PM
I-30 is excoriated enough as it is (at least within much of the roadgeek arena) for being a too-short waste of a designation ending in zero. Giving it an ignominious terminus outside of a small town in NE Arkansas would be adding insult to injury.
An interstate with a gap that isn't likely to be filled for decades if ever is better?
The question regarding numbering is a moot point. Agree or disagree with it, nothing can really be done to change it.
I-30 would just be a stub-end; two signed separate segments of I-57 strongly make the point that there
is a gap that needs filling. Anything that calls attention to this is welcome!
Missouri isn't going to build this road any faster just because there is a "gap" in it. It doesn't work that way.
Quote from: bugo on April 15, 2018, 09:03:14 PM
Quote from: sparker on April 15, 2018, 08:44:32 PM
I-30 is excoriated enough as it is (at least within much of the roadgeek arena) for being a too-short waste of a designation ending in zero. Giving it an ignominious terminus outside of a small town in NE Arkansas would be adding insult to injury.
An interstate with a gap that isn't likely to be filled for decades if ever is better?
Wouldn't be the first time there were duplicate sections of the same route number...
So, with the resigning debate reappearing, I ask: could US 67 be an invisible concurrency? Such as US 65 and I-40/I-30.
Quote from: bugo on April 16, 2018, 12:53:08 AM
Sure it can. Lots of highways have been renumbered.
Then talk to John Boozman.
Why not connect Walnut Ridge To I-55 using 412? Save some money and dual sign I-55 and 57 into Missouri.
When I was a kid we use to take 63 from Ft. Leanard Wood going to Florida. My how that area has grown.
IMHO, it would really suck for I-30 to have a dead freeway end in what would look like a random spot in NE Arkansas. To me that would stick out much worse on a map than a gap between two segments of the same named Interstate route.
A major Interstate route number ending in a five or zero should terminate into another similar major Interstate route or end at a major boundary such as an ocean or a border. I-30 currently begins/ends at I-20 and I-40. There's no need to change that. I don't have so much of a problem with I-30 running such a short length for a major Interstate route since it connects to I-40 on the East end and the nation's 4th largest metro area on the West end. I-45 is a shorter major route, but it connects the 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country.
While there is currently political hurdles getting in the way of filling the gap approximately 115 miles long between Walnut Ridge, Poplar Bluff and Sikeston that may not be a permanent situation. Naming US-67 up to Walnut Ridge as I-57 would at least clearly illustrate the intention to link that highway to the I-57 route beginning in Sikeston at some point in the future.
There are currently other gaps in the Interstate system. I-49 has multiple gaps, some of which will take decades to fill. The same goes for I-69, I-73 and I-74. I-11 is sure to fall into the same camp. In the first 20 or so years of the Interstate highway system many routes had substantial gaps all over the place. Any highway system is going to be a continual work in progress.
Quote from: bugo on April 16, 2018, 01:28:10 AM
Missouri isn't going to build this road any faster just because there is a "gap" in it. It doesn't work that way.
Probably not in the shorter term, but gaps create public pressure to fill them.
So where's the pressure for West Virginia and Ohio to build I-74? There doesn't seem to be much pressure for PA to finish I-99 or NY to finish I-86, either.
I might perhaps be a little optimistic, but I think if self driving car technology improves enough to become widely available and affordable in new cars then it will create a new revolution of highway travel. People will get out on the roads a lot more, particularly on longer distance road trips if they can kick back and let the car do the driving. That would create more demand for good quality highways. And limited access freeways would have fewer obstacles for self driving cars to negotiate.
I'd love to be able to throw my stuff in a car after work Friday and drive 600 miles to see family in Colorado without having to worry about getting there really late at night. If I get tired I would have the option to let the car take over the driving chores. Or I could let the car drive the whole way while I watched movies, did work, etc. It would be awesome. I could actually make the return trip later, even on a Sunday evening and still be able to get to work Monday morning and still be reasonably well rested.
Self driving cars will be a disruptive technology. They will affect business and leisure in ways few have yet imagined. I think self driving cars will be disruptive to the politics currently screwing up the nation's ability to build any big things. Highway corridors that currently seem impossible to finish right now (such as I-73 & I-74 or a billion dollar bridge over the Mississippi for I-69) might become more feasible a decade from now.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 16, 2018, 10:27:34 PM
I might perhaps be a little optimistic, but I think if self driving car technology improves enough to become widely available and affordable in new cars then it will create a new revolution of highway travel. People will get out on the roads a lot more, particularly on longer distance road trips if they can kick back and let the car do the driving. That would create more demand for good quality highways. And limited access freeways would have fewer obstacles for self driving cars to negotiate.
I'd love to be able to throw my stuff in a car after work Friday and drive 600 miles to see family in Colorado without having to worry about getting there really late at night. If I get tired I would have the option to let the car take over the driving chores. Or I could let the car drive the whole way while I watched movies, did work, etc. It would be awesome. I could actually make the return trip later, even on a Sunday evening and still be able to get to work Monday morning and still be reasonably well rested.
Self driving cars will be a disruptive technology. They will affect business and leisure in ways few have yet imagined. I think self driving cars will be disruptive to the politics currently screwing up the nation's ability to build any big things. Highway corridors that currently seem impossible to finish right now (such as I-73 & I-74 or a billion dollar bridge over the Mississippi for I-69) might become more feasible a decade from now.
:wow: That's quite the optimism there!
The 2 main reasons I am and always have been a 57'er:
1) The freeway in Arkansas is more north-south than east-west.
2) If I had a business interest (and at one time I did), I'd rather be astride a route from Dallas to Chicago than a route from Festus to Sherwood.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 16, 2018, 10:27:34 PM
I might perhaps be a little optimistic, but I think if self driving car technology improves enough to become widely available and affordable in new cars then it will create a new revolution of highway travel. People will get out on the roads a lot more, particularly on longer distance road trips if they can kick back and let the car do the driving. That would create more demand for good quality highways. And limited access freeways would have fewer obstacles for self driving cars to negotiate.
I'd love to be able to throw my stuff in a car after work Friday and drive 600 miles to see family in Colorado without having to worry about getting there really late at night. If I get tired I would have the option to let the car take over the driving chores. Or I could let the car drive the whole way while I watched movies, did work, etc. It would be awesome. I could actually make the return trip later, even on a Sunday evening and still be able to get to work Monday morning and still be reasonably well rested.
Self driving cars will be a disruptive technology. They will affect business and leisure in ways few have yet imagined. I think self driving cars will be disruptive to the politics currently screwing up the nation's ability to build any big things. Highway corridors that currently seem impossible to finish right now (such as I-73 & I-74 or a billion dollar bridge over the Mississippi for I-69) might become more feasible a decade from now.
Not me. I love driving. I wouldn't feel right if the car drove itself. Besides, I have terrible motion sickness and it would take me about 5 minutes riding in a self-driving car before I got vertigo and vomited all over the car.
Quote from: bugo on April 17, 2018, 02:36:25 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 16, 2018, 10:27:34 PM
I might perhaps be a little optimistic, but I think if self driving car technology improves enough to become widely available and affordable in new cars then it will create a new revolution of highway travel. People will get out on the roads a lot more, particularly on longer distance road trips if they can kick back and let the car do the driving. That would create more demand for good quality highways. And limited access freeways would have fewer obstacles for self driving cars to negotiate.
I'd love to be able to throw my stuff in a car after work Friday and drive 600 miles to see family in Colorado without having to worry about getting there really late at night. If I get tired I would have the option to let the car take over the driving chores. Or I could let the car drive the whole way while I watched movies, did work, etc. It would be awesome. I could actually make the return trip later, even on a Sunday evening and still be able to get to work Monday morning and still be reasonably well rested.
Self driving cars will be a disruptive technology. They will affect business and leisure in ways few have yet imagined. I think self driving cars will be disruptive to the politics currently screwing up the nation's ability to build any big things. Highway corridors that currently seem impossible to finish right now (such as I-73 & I-74 or a billion dollar bridge over the Mississippi for I-69) might become more feasible a decade from now.
Not me. I love driving. I wouldn't feel right if the car drove itself. Besides, I have terrible motion sickness and it would take me about 5 minutes riding in a self-driving car before I got vertigo and vomited all over the car.
How do you get to work? Do you teleport? If you can't be a passenger, then what can you be?
Are you into being strapped to the roof? ;-)
A driver. Some people don't get carsick if they're the ones driving.
Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2018, 09:15:37 AM
A driver. Some people don't get carsick if they're the ones driving.
I know, I was trying to avoid the obvious.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 16, 2018, 04:34:45 PM
There are currently other gaps in the Interstate system. I-49 has multiple gaps, some of which will take decades to fill. The same goes for I-69, I-73 and I-74. I-11 is sure to fall into the same camp. In the first 20 or so years of the Interstate highway system many routes had substantial gaps all over the place. Any highway system is going to be a continual work in progress.
And I-87 too.
Quote from: vdeane on April 16, 2018, 07:40:12 PM
So where's the pressure for West Virginia and Ohio to build I-74? There doesn't seem to be much pressure for PA to finish I-99 or NY to finish I-86, either.
Had there been any, then NJ (and/or PA), DE, MD and VA would have lots of pressure to build their own sections of I-87, however far out of grid it may be.
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on April 17, 2018, 07:17:45 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 17, 2018, 02:36:25 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 16, 2018, 10:27:34 PM
I might perhaps be a little optimistic, but I think if self driving car technology improves enough to become widely available and affordable in new cars then it will create a new revolution of highway travel. People will get out on the roads a lot more, particularly on longer distance road trips if they can kick back and let the car do the driving. That would create more demand for good quality highways. And limited access freeways would have fewer obstacles for self driving cars to negotiate.
I'd love to be able to throw my stuff in a car after work Friday and drive 600 miles to see family in Colorado without having to worry about getting there really late at night. If I get tired I would have the option to let the car take over the driving chores. Or I could let the car drive the whole way while I watched movies, did work, etc. It would be awesome. I could actually make the return trip later, even on a Sunday evening and still be able to get to work Monday morning and still be reasonably well rested.
Self driving cars will be a disruptive technology. They will affect business and leisure in ways few have yet imagined. I think self driving cars will be disruptive to the politics currently screwing up the nation's ability to build any big things. Highway corridors that currently seem impossible to finish right now (such as I-73 & I-74 or a billion dollar bridge over the Mississippi for I-69) might become more feasible a decade from now.
Not me. I love driving. I wouldn't feel right if the car drove itself. Besides, I have terrible motion sickness and it would take me about 5 minutes riding in a self-driving car before I got vertigo and vomited all over the car.
How do you get to work? Do you teleport? If you can't be a passenger, then what can you be?
Are you into being strapped to the roof? ;-)
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30742421_10214016726884675_8375235082452992000_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeHg5QfBYslxFZ-s91SUgS_cSPTDhkRClGhb4y4ejWxFcr0qCMmmOUaSN1wzKYt9ljMrblVpV7oC9iUgH89O7CKXhnDeW-t2UL1iyAV74yJbSw&oh=e202572c899d07ac2129f2a7a8d3d1c0&oe=5B5EEEEA)
Quote from: bugoNot me. I love driving. I wouldn't feel right if the car drove itself. Besides, I have terrible motion sickness and it would take me about 5 minutes riding in a self-driving car before I got vertigo and vomited all over the car.
That's why the vehicles should have both manual control and self-driving capability. Some conceptual self-driving vehicles don't have any manual controls; owning one of those would be like having a taxi or bus parked in your driveway.
I can recall numerous times driving up I-25 in Southern Colorado late at night, literally slapping myself in the face to stay awake. Most of the time I would get to the destination without stopping. Other times I had to give up and park at a rest area for a few hours, otherwise I was bound to fall asleep behind the wheel and crash. The self-driving option would eliminate that problem.
People of all ages (it's not Millennials) love to multi-task while in the car. I get furious when I see people texting while driving. I once saw one twirp in a red Honda Civic on Cache Road here in Lawton doing a flagrant example of it. He was steering the car with his knees while using his thumbs to work his phone. I was in the center lane and he was in the left lane. I could clearly see what he was doing from my pickup truck. I so felt like ramming his @$$ into the median.
All kinds of negative publicity has swirled around two recent self-driving car related fatalities. A Tesla driver was killed in one accident. A self-driving Uber ran over a woman jay-walking across a street at night. Both incidents grabbed lots of headlines. The coverage completely ignored the likelihood the fatalities could have happened anyway with a human controlling the car. That especially goes for the case of the lady walking her bicycle across the street at night away from a crosswalk. If she had been splattered by a human driver the news would not have made it past the local level. We've had a couple pedestrian deaths here in Lawton recently; none of them made any national news. The roughly 6000 pedestrians killed in 2017 by human drivers didn't gain anywhere near as much press as that Uber accident. The latest estimate from the NSC puts US traffic deaths in 2017 at 40100. The point of listing those numbers is human being drivers have a pretty deplorable track record at this driving thing and it seems to be trending worse with all of the distracted driving nonsense. We're expecting the computers in self-driving cars to work absolutely perfect in all situations when us homo sapiens kind of suck at living up to the same ideal.
Quote from: Bobby5280There are currently other gaps in the Interstate system. I-49 has multiple gaps, some of which will take decades to fill. The same goes for I-69, I-73 and I-74. I-11 is sure to fall into the same camp. In the first 20 or so years of the Interstate highway system many routes had substantial gaps all over the place. Any highway system is going to be a continual work in progress.
Quote from: HenryAnd I-87 too.
The North Carolina version of I-87 is in the same camp as Interstates like I-76 and I-84: they're duplicate routes that will never be connected. It would take a very expensive and convoluted path to connect the NY and NC I-87 routes.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 17, 2018, 11:05:58 AM
All kinds of negative publicity has swirled around two recent self-driving car related fatalities. A Tesla driver was killed in one accident. A self-driving Uber ran over a woman jay-walking across a street at night. Both incidents grabbed lots of headlines. The coverage completely ignored the likelihood the fatalities could have happened anyway with a human controlling the car. That especially goes for the case of the lady walking her bicycle across the street at night away from a crosswalk. If she had been splattered by a human driver the news would not have made it past the local level. We've had a couple pedestrian deaths here in Lawton recently; none of them made any national news. The roughly 6000 pedestrians killed in 2017 by human drivers didn't gain anywhere near as much press as that Uber accident. The latest estimate from the NSC puts US traffic deaths in 2017 at 40100. The point of listing those numbers is human being drivers have a pretty deplorable track record at this driving thing and it seems to be trending worse with all of the distracted driving nonsense. We're expecting the computers in self-driving cars to work absolutely perfect in all situations when us homo sapiens kind of suck at living up to the same ideal.
I have a feeling that some are afraid of the non-human element -- not that robots are taking over (or they are, each their own), it's just... I don't know.
With the way things are these days I think I would put more trust in a self-driving car not running me over than a good percentage of human being motorists.
I gave up pedaling my trail bicycle to work due to the close calls with cars. Too many just don't pay attention to what's outside their vehicle on or near the roadway. And if they do see you riding a bicycle there is an off chance the car driver could choose to do something hostile toward you (swerve at you, throw stuff at you, honk, flip you off, etc) because apparently anyone on a bicycle is a tree-hugging pansy worthy of a boot to the face. There may be laws on the books to uphold the rights of bicyclists to get a share of the road. But abstract things like laws aren't actually there to physically protect anyone on a bicycle. Laws are only there to be applied to jerks after they do something negligent or malicious. A computer system running a self-driving car is not likely to get road rage, seeking vengeance against anyone or anything it doesn't like that it encounters during a trip.
If I really wanted to push a "con" argument against self-driving cars it might be from the topic of road kill. How much better are self driving cars at avoiding animals crossing the roads than human drivers? Most human drivers won't deliberately run over an animal. Are the camera and radar systems in self driving cars good enough to see small animals. If they do see those animals will they attempt any measures (even if it's just slowing down) to avoid them? Or will they push through as if the animals are not there?