What does BGS mean?

[kphoger]

What's the difference between BGS and LGS?  What makes a sign big?

I've typically seen 'LGS' used to refer to ones such as Nebraska's junction signs.

But, to answer your question in another way:  large ones are larger than small ones.

[roadman]

In terms of Big Black Signs, when I was a kid (early '70s), as God is my witness, I noticed those were used on in place of Big Green Signs on a stretch of freeway in the Webster Groves/St. Louis (MO) area, which I found strange, since I was used to green.  (I guess even then I had a hard-wired accountant's brain.)  Could have been I-44.

Your comment reminds me that there used to be Big Black Signs over the Shirley Highway HOV lanes in Virginia. They were directional guide signs given a different color to clarify that they were for the center carriageway. The signs were replaced with boring green ones in the late 1980s or early 1990s; the only one remaining is a southbound "ALL TRAFFIC"  pull-through sign at the Turkeycock ramp complex, and it will be replaced this year because it's for two lanes and the rebuilt road will have three lanes.

More discussion about the Big Black Signs can be found at:  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12351.msg299542#msg299542 

Some Big Brown Signs use Clearview for some of the text instead of the fancier NPS typeface. The GW Parkway in Virginia and DC has some brown signs with "NEXT EXIT"  or similar text in all-caps Clearview.

Current MassDOT standards for NPS signs on Interstates and freeways call for the text to be Highway Gothic Series D mixed-case instead of the NPS font.

[wxfree]

What's the difference between BGS and LGS?  What makes a sign big?

I've typically seen 'LGS' used to refer to ones such as Nebraska's junction signs.

But, to answer your question in another way:  large ones are larger than small ones.

I was thinking of smaller signs with one leg, like a route shield with a green background white border, like that sign with just the US 77 symbol on it, as a little green sign.  I know I've seen them, but I can't remember where.  I tend to be unnecessarily philosophical.  To me, it's an interesting question whether we need a distinction, or if it was just made up because someone said "big green sign" to describe something and it seemed to warrant a distinction between big and little.

[roadman]

I've always considered the term BGS as applying to larger extruded or increment panel guide signs - both overhead and ground-mounted, found on Interstates and freeways (including entrance ramps at interchanges0, and the term LGS as applying to smaller sheet aluminum guide signs found on secondary roads.

[1995hoo]

Your comment reminds me that there used to be Big Black Signs over the Shirley Highway HOV lanes in Virginia. They were directional guide signs given a different color to clarify that they were for the center carriageway. The signs were replaced with boring green ones in the late 1980s or early 1990s; the only one remaining is a southbound "ALL TRAFFIC"  pull-through sign at the Turkeycock ramp complex, and it will be replaced this year because it's for two lanes and the rebuilt road will have three lanes.

More discussion about the Big Black Signs can be found at:  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12351.msg299542#msg299542

....

My post earlier in that thread has a Street View link to the red and black signs I've mentioned in this thread.

[J N Winkler]

I was thinking of smaller signs with one leg, like a route shield with a green background white border, like that sign with just the US 77 symbol on it, as a little green sign.  I know I've seen them, but I can't remember where.  I tend to be unnecessarily philosophical.  To me, it's an interesting question whether we need a distinction, or if it was just made up because someone said "big green sign" to describe something and it seemed to warrant a distinction between big and little.

In practice, the distinction is based on size (usually letter height rather than some measure of total panel size), function, or substrate construction, with each of these receiving different degrees of emphasis in different jurisdictions.  In the US we tend to play up the size distinction with signs for conventional roads being of different format and generally smaller (24" shields, 6" or 8" letter height) than signs for expressways or freeways of similar speed limit (36" shields, 16" or 20" letter height).  Expressways and freeways are the natural habitat of large guide signs, but it does not follow that every guide sign used on them is a large guide sign.  River crossing signs are an example of small guide signs that often appear on expressways and freeways.

In other countries the distinction between big and small is less hard-and-fast, with the same basic substrate construction being scaled up for higher-class roads.  In Britain, for example, signing for all primary routes is drawn from the same basic menu, with ones we would classify as expressway and freeway tending to receive multiple advance signs for grade-separated junctions (similar to the action signing sequence on a US freeway) with a larger size of lettering.

And even in the US, some states emphasize the big/small distinction in overall look less than others.  In California, for example, most guide signs use mixed-case Series E Modified (associated with freeways) for destination legend regardless of whether they are actually on freeways.  All guide signs are classified as such (G or SG sign spec codes) with no big/small distinction, and conceptually all forms of substrate construction are available on all types of roads.  But there are some types of G sign (such as the "Turn-Off 1/4 Mile" sign) that are not seen on freeways, and letter sizes reflect the MUTCD big/small distinction.

P.S.  Guide-sign route shield and cardinal direction word against a green background as a route confirmatory sign is a New Mexico thing (example).  Functionally I regard it more as a variation of the unisign approach (itself a variation of the plain-vanilla MUTCD Chapter 2D approach where the message is built out of physically separate independent-mount shields and cardinal direction tabs) than as something addressed by MUTCD Chapter 2E.

[jakeroot]

P.S.  Guide-sign route shield and cardinal direction word against a green background as a route confirmatory sign is a New Mexico thing (example).  Functionally I regard it more as a variation of the unisign approach (itself a variation of the plain-vanilla MUTCD Chapter 2D approach where the message is built out of physically separate independent-mount shields and cardinal direction tabs) than as something addressed by MUTCD Chapter 2E.

These were incredibly common in Washington State until recently. Route markers are still single-piece panels, except for interstates, which have reverted to multiple-piece panels.

[Scott5114]

What's the difference between BGS and LGS?  What makes a sign big?

An LGS is constructed under the guidance of Chapter 2D of the MUTCD, and a BGS uses Chapter 2E. That's the distinction that people are trying to get at–distinguishing between the large freeway-style signs that traditionally use mixed-case Series E(M), had button copy back in the day, etc. and the smaller conventional-road signs.

[SoCal Kid]

Um I think my answer has been answered more than once, don't understand the continuing discussion lol

[Scott5114]

Um I think my answer has been answered more than once, don't understand the continuing discussion lol

Your subject is interesting to other people and they want to keep talking about it. This is not something you have control over or can stop.

[J N Winkler]

BGS versus official terminology like large guide sign etc. is a perennial topic of discussion partly because there is a U/non-U distinction involved.

[Roadsguy]

Um I think my answer has been answered more than once, don't understand the continuing discussion lol

Your subject is interesting to other people and they want to keep talking about it. This is not something you have control over or can stop.

It's self-sustaining now.

[Duke87]

Big Red Sign -- Perhaps the rarest of all, indicating a stop ahead or a route to be avoided.  One of the contraflow HOV lanes in Northern VA (Shirley Hwy?) used to have a red overhead sign reading "Do Not Enter" with white lettering posted over the wrong-way entrance ramps (in addition to the multiple lighted crossing-gate arms).  Newer installs, however, use an oversized MUTCD Do Not Enter symbol/sign instead.   Not sure if the recent reconstructions have replaced the older signs.

Or to indicate prohibitions on restricted routes, e.g. hazardous materials from the Lowry Hill Tunnel on I-94.

Overhead signage at the airport in Cleveland used to be all red. It was replaced before the Streetview era though.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Big Red Sign -- Perhaps the rarest of all, indicating a stop ahead or a route to be avoided.  One of the contraflow HOV lanes in Northern VA (Shirley Hwy?) used to have a red overhead sign reading "Do Not Enter" with white lettering posted over the wrong-way entrance ramps (in addition to the multiple lighted crossing-gate arms).  Newer installs, however, use an oversized MUTCD Do Not Enter symbol/sign instead.   Not sure if the recent reconstructions have replaced the older signs.

Or to indicate prohibitions on restricted routes, e.g. hazardous materials from the Lowry Hill Tunnel on I-94.

Overhead signage at the airport in Cleveland used to be all red. It was replaced before the Streetview era though.

Yeah, but...

[ClassicHasClass]

In terms of Big Black Signs, when I was a kid (early '70s), as God is my witness, I noticed those were used on in place of Big Green Signs on a stretch of freeway in the Webster Groves/St. Louis (MO) area, which I found strange, since I was used to green.  (I guess even then I had a hard-wired accountant's brain.)  Could have been I-44.

We had big black signs out in California for a long time and a number of them persisted. I remember "black signs" still up in the Newhall Pass on I-5 around a decade ago for the truck bypass.

There were a few in Alabama when I drove through Birmingham in 2006.

[ErmineNotyours]

The first black signs I ever saw were from this scene in the Disney short Dad, Can I Borrow the Car?  I thought it was a California thing.

https://youtu.be/qsAv5akyi5A?t=1233

[formulanone]

Um I think my answer has been answered more than once, don't understand the continuing discussion lol

Welcome to how I felt after posting this thread eight years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=535Zy_rf4NU

[roadman]

The first black signs I ever saw were from this scene in the Disney short Dad, Can I Borrow the Car?  I thought it was a California thing.

https://youtu.be/qsAv5akyi5A?t=1233

Dad, Can I Borrow The Car wasn't a short, but a full length episode of the original Wonderful World Of Disney TV series.  It was available on DVD at one point.

[Henry]

Don't forget the other members of the BGS family.

Big Green Sign -- General guide signs for exits or control cities.
Big Yellow Sign -- Used for warnings, such as a lane drop not associated with a ramp, e.g., "Right Lane Ends 1 Mile"
Big Blue Sign -- Less common, since the services signs tend to be smaller -- though I have seen larger ones with 9 logos.  But some larger, overhead blue signs exist for rest areas. (Were these once used in lieu of BGSs in Connecticut?)
Big Orange Sign -- Used in construction zones, particularly those of a large enough scale that "oranging-out" parts of a BGS is not sufficient, and the traffic pattern change is significant.  The recent Goethals Bridge rebuild used some of these.  Most if not all have black lettering.
Big Brown Sign -- Used for tourist attractions, especially historical sites.  Perhaps not coincidentally, highways run by the National Park Service use brown signs instead of green ones, usually with a different Palatino-like font.  (The Southern State Parkway on Long Island used to use brown signs, but did they use the conventional highway gothic font?)  Also used at some airports.
Big White Sign -- Presents information that doesn't neatly fit into the other categories, like transit info.  Color of the lettering may vary depending on application.  Also formerly used in places like the New York City expressways, with a dark grey lettering, before BGSs took over.
Big Black Sign -- Rare, might be an alternative to white signs.  Sometimes used for upcoming weigh station instructions. (Did South Jersey use these for local roads at one time?)
Big Purple Sign -- Are these a new standard for routes with automatic toll collection?  Also, Disney parks seem to use some of these on their access roads.
Big Red Sign -- Perhaps the rarest of all, indicating a stop ahead or a route to be avoided.  One of the contraflow HOV lanes in Northern VA (Shirley Hwy?) used to have a red overhead sign reading "Do Not Enter" with white lettering posted over the wrong-way entrance ramps (in addition to the multiple lighted crossing-gate arms).  Newer installs, however, use an oversized MUTCD Do Not Enter symbol/sign instead.   Not sure if the recent reconstructions have replaced the older signs.

In short, these would be known as BGS, BYS, BBS, BOS, BBrS, BWS, BBlS, BPS and BRS, respectively.

[hotdogPi]

BBlS

BKS, for any of you that use printers.

[Henry]

BBlS

BKS, for any of you that use printers.

Well, that makes more sense.

[1995hoo]

BBlS

BKS, for any of you that use printers.

BSOC, for people who subscribe to political correctness jargon.

[ErmineNotyours]

Dad, Can I Borrow The Car wasn't a short, but a full length episode of the original Wonderful World Of Disney TV series.  It was available on DVD at one point.

Leonard Maltin's The Disney Films lists it as a theatrical short subject, from 1970.

[roadman]

Dad, Can I Borrow The Car wasn't a short, but a full length episode of the original Wonderful World Of Disney TV series.  It was available on DVD at one point.

Leonard Maltin's The Disney Films lists it as a theatrical short subject, from 1970.

Never knew that.  Thanks for the information.

[kphoger]

BBlS

BKS, for any of you that use printers.

BSOC, for people who subscribe to political correctness jargon.

It took me a minute, but...  good one!