The End of the Hemi Engine (and the Chrysler V8 engine)

[Chrysler375Freeway]

So after the end of production for the Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger, and Dodge Challenger in their current forms, and with them, the Hemi V8 engine, it made me ask this question: why can't Stellantis simply make a next-generation V8 engine? The other two American automakers are making next-generation V8 engines with increased power, torque, fuel efficiency, and reduced emissions, and for the Mopar fan base, a V8 engine is an integral part of the fanbase's identity, meaning why can't they make a next-generation advanced Hemi V8 engine that meets the ever-evolving emissions standards? GM's upcoming small-block V8 engine promises more power, torque, and a 5% improvement in fuel efficiency, along with double-digit emission reductions, and an increasing number of EVs are sitting unsold on lots anyway, so surely Stellantis could make a next-generation V8 engine that doesn't sacrifice anything in the way of emissions or fuel economy, but they haven't done this, and it marks the end of the Hemi engine a third time, after ending production first in 1958 and 1971, and with it, the end of a revered icon for Chrysler and Mopar, as well as the end of eight-cylinder Chryslers after 93 years.

[Max Rockatansky]

For starters the outgoing Hemi is an OHV iron block.  Even the newer Chevy Small Block V8s are moving to multiple camshafts.  Granted, I do think Chrysler is making a mistake thing an Inline 6 is going to pull the same muscle car demographic the LX cars had (speaking as a current owner of a 2016 Challenger Scat Pack).

[Henry]

Well, it looks like hell has finally frozen over...because now this means that the new Ram trucks will no longer have a V8 either. I guess it won't matter anyway, because Ford, Chevy/GMC and Toyota will continue to battle each other in the V8 truck arena. The Camaro may be going away, but there's still the Corvette and various high-end Cadillac sedans that will soldier on with the most American engine of all, as well as the Mustang from Ford. Sorry Stellantis, you just signed your death warrant.

[Max Rockatansky]

While the LX cars and V8 trucks were sales hits it was mistake to move away from all other models (particularly in the Dodge brand).  Now both Dodge and Ram are completely contingent upon retaining one certain buyer.  The Hornet seems to be an attempt to diversify the Dodge brand but it won't likely appeal to many current LX owners.

[Chrysler375Freeway]

Well, it looks like hell has finally frozen over...because now this means that the new Ram trucks will no longer have a V8 either. I guess it won't matter anyway, because Ford, Chevy/GMC and Toyota will continue to battle each other in the V8 truck arena. The Camaro may be going away, but there's still the Corvette and various high-end Cadillac sedans that will soldier on with the most American engine of all, as well as the Mustang from Ford. Sorry Stellantis, you just signed your death warrant.

Actually, Toyota left the V8 truck arena in 2021 when the 2022 Tundra was introduced with a twin-turbo V6 both hybrid and non-hybrid as the only option available. Ford still has the 2024 Mustang with the 5.0 V8.

[Max Rockatansky]

Toyota also sold less Tundras last year than it did in combined LX car examples and about 1/5th of the Ram last year.  The brand and nameplate just doesn't carry the same expectations to have V8 option (especially compared to American truck brands).  Ford was cautious about totally dropping the V8 in the F Series and still offers an option instead of forcing buyers totally into a turbo V6.

[Takumi]

Toyota also sold less Tundras last year than it did in combined LX car examples and about 1/5th of the Ram last year.  The brand and nameplate just doesn't carry the same expectations to have V8 option (especially compared to American truck brands).  Ford was cautious about totally dropping the V8 in the F Series and still offers an option instead of forcing buyers totally into a turbo V6.

IIRC the Tundra's predecessor, the T100, had a stigma because it never offered a V8.

[Max Rockatansky]

Toyota also sold less Tundras last year than it did in combined LX car examples and about 1/5th of the Ram last year.  The brand and nameplate just doesn't carry the same expectations to have V8 option (especially compared to American truck brands).  Ford was cautious about totally dropping the V8 in the F Series and still offers an option instead of forcing buyers totally into a turbo V6.

IIRC the Tundra's predecessor, the T100, had a stigma because it never offered a V8.

Yes, the six cylinder engines didn't exactly have the displacement to generate the low end torque which was required to compete in the full size truck market.  A V8 option certainly would have been helpful attracting buyers.  All the same I always took the T100 to be an experiment by Toyota to see if they could crack the full size truck market.

[Henry]

Toyota also sold less Tundras last year than it did in combined LX car examples and about 1/5th of the Ram last year.  The brand and nameplate just doesn't carry the same expectations to have V8 option (especially compared to American truck brands).  Ford was cautious about totally dropping the V8 in the F Series and still offers an option instead of forcing buyers totally into a turbo V6.

IIRC the Tundra's predecessor, the T100, had a stigma because it never offered a V8.

Yes, the six cylinder engines didn't exactly have the displacement to generate the low end torque which was required to compete in the full size truck market.  A V8 option certainly would have been helpful attracting buyers.  All the same I always took the T100 to be an experiment by Toyota to see if they could crack the full size truck market.

My bad. I do know that Nissan is no longer offering V8s either, since they discontinued the Titan, which was competing directly with the Tundra.

[Chrysler375Freeway]

Toyota also sold less Tundras last year than it did in combined LX car examples and about 1/5th of the Ram last year.  The brand and nameplate just doesn't carry the same expectations to have V8 option (especially compared to American truck brands).  Ford was cautious about totally dropping the V8 in the F Series and still offers an option instead of forcing buyers totally into a turbo V6.

IIRC the Tundra's predecessor, the T100, had a stigma because it never offered a V8.

Yes, the six cylinder engines didn't exactly have the displacement to generate the low end torque which was required to compete in the full size truck market.  A V8 option certainly would have been helpful attracting buyers.  All the same I always took the T100 to be an experiment by Toyota to see if they could crack the full size truck market.

My bad. I do know that Nissan is no longer offering V8s either, since they discontinued the Titan, which was competing directly with the Tundra.

The Armada still offers the same V8 engine, at least until the 2024 model year.

[JREwing78]

Stellantis *COULD* make a next-gen V8 engine. But they won't - because they're not stupid. It's as close to lighting money on fire as one could possibly get.

Where do you find V8 engines now from a Detroit auto manufacturer? In trucks and hyper-expensive luxury sedans. Everywhere else, the V8 is dead. Stellantis is finally coming to terms with that reality, and not a moment too soon. 

Stellantis' plans for their powertrains and platforms moving forward is kind of opaque. What we do know is that there's going to be a mix of ICE, hybrid, and full-electric powertrains moving forward, and that the 3.6L Pentastar and the Hemi V8 lines are on their way out. They didn't do this out of ignorance of the obvious. The fact is - the old motors couldn't be inexpensively updated to stay competitive. They had to start over fresh.

We know this because they put considerable investment into the 2.0L 4-cylinder and 3.0L 6-cylinder turbo powertrains, engines that can be used everywhere the old 3.6L Pentastar and 5.7L Hemi can. Given that, the best way to amortize those development costs (a.k.a. MAKE MONEY!) is to use those powertrains anywhere and everywhere they practically can.

I'd rather see Stellantis put their money into one or two good motors than half-ass a bunch of different engines. That's exactly what they did with the 3.6L Pentastar and the 5.7L Hemi motors - it's why they were so ubiquitous in the past 15 years. Each motor took Billions of dollars in research and development to create and to make powerful and reliable. They make that money back by producing them in massive volume. They need to do the same with the new turbo motors to - stop me if you've heard this one - MAKE MONEY!

That MAKE MONEY part is highly important. Detroit's perpetual #3 automaker has a history of making bank, then having a near-death experience, then being bailed out by a rich benefactor (or the government, or both), then repeating the cycle.

Stellantis has to figure out what they can profitably sell here that's not a Jeep or a RAM. The Chrysler and Dodge brands have been (un-)dead for the past 8-10 years, ever since Fiat threw in the towel on the Dart/200. The only other vehicles you could get were LX sedans/coupes, the hopelessly-outclassed Journey, and the Pacifica minivan. Now for 2024, we have... the Pacifica. Oh, and the Hornet. And, the Durango - but call that one undead.

That's a pretty empty lineup, folks - and even the Jeep brand's looking a little soft with the ancient Renegade and Compass trying to keep hold of the under $50,000 buyers.

Stellantis desperately needs the following:
- A Dodge/RAM compact truck (ala Maverick, Santa Cruz, etc) - with options for hybrid or full-electric powertrains
- Revamped small and mid-size SUVs - either hybrid and/or full-electric
- A revamped Pacifica plug-in hybrid based off the turbo 2.0L powertrain, with improved efficiency- Toyota-grade durability and reliability. I say this as a Jeep Grand Cherokee owner who's frankly had no problems with it - but it was the 8th model year of essentially the same vehicle design with as few fancy (expensive to repair) options as I could get.

[Max Rockatansky]

You do realize the entire business brand strategy for Dodge, Chrysler and Ram has been those very trucks or big sedan/coupes for at least a decade?  Trying to diversify those brands should have be continual, doing it suddenly just alienates the existing buyer.  Those brands staked it all on platforms that could carry V8s (for better or likely worse).

[Chrysler375Freeway]

And another thing: the V8 Charger is a very common car in police fleets across the country. I don't think Stellantis took the police buyers into consideration here.

[Rothman]

And another thing: the V8 Charger is a very common car in police fleets across the country. I don't think Stellantis took the police buyers into consideration here.

I'm sure they did.

[Max Rockatansky]

Police fleet sales have been moving to SUVs for the last half decade.  They just tend to fulfill police specs better now than sedans can.

[Road Hog]

I've googled hemi engines and wouldn't recognize one if the ghost of Lee Iacocca hit me in the face with one.

[Chrysler375Freeway]

Police fleet sales have been moving to SUVs for the last half decade.  They just tend to fulfill police specs better now than sedans can.

Even if that's the case, the current Durango Pursuit with the V8 option has only one model year left in its lifecycle, and the only other police model available from the fleet division is the Ram HD Special Service package.

[Stephane Dumas]

For starters the outgoing Hemi is an OHV iron block.  Even the newer Chevy Small Block V8s are moving to multiple camshafts.  Granted, I do think Chrysler is making a mistake thing an Inline 6 is going to pull the same muscle car demographic the LX cars had (speaking as a current owner of a 2016 Challenger Scat Pack).

To think then Chrysler once offered an inline Hemi 6 Down Under in Australia. That I6 was originally planned to replace the slant six for Dodge trucks but it got another destiny. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi-6_Engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv4BlE5DwpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DuMlqWlceY

[Max Rockatansky]

Certainly goes to show how the Australian market had a ton of uniqueness to it.  Total shame there isn't stuff around anyone like the Ford Falcon or even the Holden brand.

[Stephane Dumas]

Certainly goes to show how the Australian market had a ton of uniqueness to it.  Total shame there isn't stuff around anyone like the Ford Falcon or even the Holden brand.

Yeah, and we could mention other oddities from around the world like the Chevrolet Opala in Brazil, the Ford Falcon from Argentina (who kept the 1960 US body Falcon until the early 1990s), the VW Rabbit pick-up who was made in South Africa until 2007.

[Chrysler375Freeway]

For starters the outgoing Hemi is an OHV iron block.  Even the newer Chevy Small Block V8s are moving to multiple camshafts.  Granted, I do think Chrysler is making a mistake thing an Inline 6 is going to pull the same muscle car demographic the LX cars had (speaking as a current owner of a 2016 Challenger Scat Pack).

To think then Chrysler once offered an inline Hemi 6 Down Under in Australia. That I6 was originally planned to replace the slant six for Dodge trucks but it got another destiny. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi-6_Engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv4BlE5DwpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DuMlqWlceY

That was Chrysler's first thin wall cast iron design.