AARoads Forum

Meta => Suggestions and Questions => Topic started by: 20160805 on April 24, 2018, 07:53:24 PM

Title: Forum stats link?
Post by: 20160805 on April 24, 2018, 07:53:24 PM
I seem to recall, toward the bottom of the forum home page, a link to an extra stats page, on which you could view things such as users with the most posts, boards with the most posts, longest threads, etc., in addition to total numbers of new posts, threads, members, and page views broken down by year or, upon expansion, by month.

However, I scrolled down to the bottom of the forum home page tonight and didn't see that link there.  Does anybody know where that page went or even if it still exists?  I'd be pretty sad if it did go away, being the statistic geek I am and all.

Thank you for any and all information.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 08:04:43 PM
I take full responsibility for it's disappearance.
I also realized that I overstepped (with starting too many stats threads) and took full responsibility for changing my behavior in order to get the page back, but I was unsuccessful in doing this :no:

I would still advocate its reappearance, but I've done all I can personally do, so I wish you luck in convincing the admin team. I still don't think the forum is run as a total monarchy, but the outcome of this could be the ultimate evidence...
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 24, 2018, 08:31:39 PM
It's here (http://aaroads.com/forum/index.php?action=stats), but you don't have permission to view it.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: oscar on April 24, 2018, 08:51:15 PM
There were concerns -- which I share -- that there was too much discussion about forum stats, which at times degenerated into what another user derided as "biggest penis" contests. All that detracted from discussion about roads, which is what this forum is about. 

The stats are presumably available to the webmaster and maybe the mods, who are the only people who really need to see them so they can better manage this forum.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 09:46:50 PM
We're better off without it.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: oscar on April 24, 2018, 08:51:15 PM
All that detracted from discussion about roads

That is a misconception. Period.

Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 09:46:50 PM
We're better off without it.

Also unproven. And impossible to prove, since stats have been hidden since the episode.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.  Definitely has lessened the nonsense on the forum when there's enough of it already.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on April 24, 2018, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.

Without flinging old dirt, how so?

Why is it important to you?
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 24, 2018, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.
Without flinging old dirt, how so?
Why is it important to you?

The answer to the question isn't of any particular importance. What irks me, I guess, and what Rothman capitalized on, is my that my inherent involvement in this issue is proving to be a major obstruction as I try to look at it from an unbiased point of view.

What I am particularly interested in (and have been trying to get at) is whether forum user base as a whole believes the stats page should be available. Period.
Leave me (and all my stats threads and whatever else) completely out of the picture, long enough to form an answer to a very basic question: Should the stats page be something that is available to forum users? Two years ago, before I joined, what would your answer have been?

That's the only important question at play in this thread right now, so I'll just shut up for a while and see what everyone has to say.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: formulanone on April 24, 2018, 11:53:14 PM
Absolutely nobody is stopping you from recording the post counts from users from popular threads and making your own list. But as you can tell, it's not worth discussing the details of those results on this forum.

It really doesn't bother me one way or another, although posts for the sake of posting to raise one's post count should be discouraged. You don't unlock any bonus features with new statuses, unless one becomes a moderator or takes on some other staff position.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2018, 11:56:25 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 24, 2018, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.
Without flinging old dirt, how so?
Why is it important to you?

The answer to the question isn't of any particular importance. What irks me, I guess, and what Rothman capitalized on, is my that my inherent involvement in this issue is proving to be a major obstruction as I try to look at it from an unbiased point of view.

What I am particularly interested in (and have been trying to get at) is whether forum user base as a whole believes the stats page should be available. Period.
Leave me (and all my stats threads and whatever else) completely out of the picture, long enough to form an answer to a very basic question: Should the stats page be something that is available to forum users? Two years ago, before I joined, what would your answer have been?

That's the only important question at play in this thread right now, so I'll just shut up for a while and see what everyone has to say.

Shut the post count off while we're at it.  That was a really watered down period of posting when all the talk about forum stats or post counts.  That's just my two-cents. 
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Alps on April 25, 2018, 12:30:23 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2018, 11:56:25 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 24, 2018, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.
Without flinging old dirt, how so?
Why is it important to you?

The answer to the question isn't of any particular importance. What irks me, I guess, and what Rothman capitalized on, is my that my inherent involvement in this issue is proving to be a major obstruction as I try to look at it from an unbiased point of view.

What I am particularly interested in (and have been trying to get at) is whether forum user base as a whole believes the stats page should be available. Period.
Leave me (and all my stats threads and whatever else) completely out of the picture, long enough to form an answer to a very basic question: Should the stats page be something that is available to forum users? Two years ago, before I joined, what would your answer have been?

That's the only important question at play in this thread right now, so I'll just shut up for a while and see what everyone has to say.

Shut the post count off while we're at it.  That was a really watered down period of posting when all the talk about forum stats or post counts.  That's just my two-cents. 
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Post count serves nothing except an alternate dick-waving contest.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 25, 2018, 05:42:10 AM
Post count is useful to easily determine if a member is an established member or not. 1000 vs 10000 doesn't matter much, but 5 vs 1000 definitely does.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: froggie on April 25, 2018, 07:18:18 AM
^ Quality versus quantity.  There are a number of well-established users on this forum who don't post often (a few with as little as ~100 posts, despite being here for years), but have notable observations or viewpoints.

As for stats, webny99's obsession with stats consumed a chunk of the forum for awhile, and the mods opted to pull the plug on it as a result.  I highly doubt it will come back, and some of the conversation in this thread will only reinforce their viewpoint that pulling stats access was the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Rothman on April 25, 2018, 08:19:38 AM
A proxy for post count is the member joined date.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on April 25, 2018, 08:57:50 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 25, 2018, 08:19:38 AM
A proxy for post count is the member joined date.

Eh, I'm not sure that's really true: I'd registered more than one and a half years before I eventually made my first post and began contributing to this forum.

Of course, I should probably note that I'm more the exception than the rule...
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2018, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Should the stats page be something that is available to forum users? Two years ago, before I joined, what would your answer have been?

Personally:  2 years ago, I never noticed the stats.  Today, I don't notice the stats (ok, I didn't notice they were gone).  When do I notice them?  When someone creates a post, or multiple posts, about stats, such as that period of time a few months ago.  I don't even really notice my own post count, readily available on everything I post. 

Also, this is what I've noticed about you personally webny99:  Since the stats have gone away, you've actually had many worthwhile contributions to the boards relating to roads and highways.

So while there may be some interest in stats, it's kinda like Fight Club.  The first rule is, you don't talk about the stats.  They're there for your amusement...not for public broadcasting and dissection.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: index on April 25, 2018, 09:13:18 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 24, 2018, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.
Without flinging old dirt, how so?
Why is it important to you?
What I am particularly interested in (and have been trying to get at) is whether forum user base as a whole believes the stats page should be available. Period.


If you want my honest opinion...


I do prefer the stats page as available, I find statistics on things interesting, and I'd rather that it stayed, but in the end it's not that big of a deal. My personal amusement, no threads or anything. I'm not going to fight it or anything. It's really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. It happened so it happened, it happened a while ago, and it's not likely to change anytime soon, so it'd be better that those who wanted it to stay accepted that it's gone.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: formulanone on April 25, 2018, 09:17:31 AM
Quote from: Alps on April 25, 2018, 12:30:23 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2018, 11:56:25 PM
Shut the post count off while we're at it.  That was a really watered down period of posting when all the talk about forum stats or post counts.  That's just my two-cents. 
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Post count serves nothing except an alternate dick-waving contest.

But if a mod reduces the number of posts from a user, is it a click-waiving process?

To a narrow extent, post count matters to get a feel for how to deal with a new thread; a user with very few posts asking a road question probably needs more description than a someone with a few more posts. Or whether that off-topic question is from a bot, rather than a real user who just wants to ask something rather unusual.

Face it, you're pulling the trigger on the Parking Lots with 1-5 posts complaining about other users or asking about our favorite gambling websites.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hbelkins on April 25, 2018, 10:24:28 AM
I'm the one who compared all these stats comparisons to a "biggest penis" competition, and I stand by that. There for awhile, people were more consumed with forum stats than actual forum content. There are plenty of road-related stats you can obsess over, as opposed to forum stats.

As for post count, it really doesn't mean anything to me. Quantity over quality, is what it tells me, if you're hung up on the number of posts a particular user makes. Spend enough time here and you can distinguish the Alpses/Froggies/Oscars/US 71s (to name four contributors to this thread who have been long-time participants in various venues who are knowledgeable and respected) from the Marfs and FritzOwls of the world.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on April 25, 2018, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: formulanone on April 25, 2018, 09:17:31 AM
Quote from: Alps on April 25, 2018, 12:30:23 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2018, 11:56:25 PM
Shut the post count off while we're at it.  That was a really watered down period of posting when all the talk about forum stats or post counts.  That's just my two-cents. 
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Post count serves nothing except an alternate dick-waving contest.

But if a mod reduces the number of posts from a user, is it a click-waiving process?

To a narrow extent, post count matters to get a feel for how to deal with a new thread; a user with very few posts asking a road question probably needs more description than a someone with a few more posts. Or whether that off-topic question is from a bot, rather than a real user who just wants to ask something rather unusual.

Face it, you're pulling the trigger on the Parking Lots with 1-5 posts complaining about other users or asking about our favorite gambling websites.

If you post it in Off-Topic, you can talk about gambling all you want.  Can you cite examples of Parking Lots we have "pulled the trigger" on (besides Marf)?
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Jim on April 25, 2018, 12:19:38 PM
Given my role in TM, participation in mob-rule for county counting, and the various other lists I keep for myself, I like tracking stats as much as anyone.  But post count on any forum has never been one of those things.  For my post count, without looking it up, the best I could do is guess that it probably has 4 digits.  I see no harm in having post counts and other stats available, but I'm guessing most users won't ever look.

I think most of us who read the forum regularly pretty quickly figure out whose posts are likely to be interesting and informative and whose are not worth wasting even the couple of seconds it takes to look.  As others have pointed out, post counts aren't a good indicator of quality of contributions.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2018, 12:23:08 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 25, 2018, 11:33:22 AM
If you post it in Off-Topic, you can talk about gambling all you want.  Can you cite examples of Parking Lots we have "pulled the trigger" on (besides Marf)?

I was going to mention Alanland, but looking at his stats it was his 6th post, so even that doesn't qualify.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: vdeane on April 25, 2018, 12:45:10 PM
Honestly, I didn't even notice the stats page existed until it was mentioned in the very thread that caused it to be disabled.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: adventurernumber1 on April 25, 2018, 12:52:04 PM
Quote from: index on April 25, 2018, 09:13:18 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 24, 2018, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.
Without flinging old dirt, how so?
Why is it important to you?
What I am particularly interested in (and have been trying to get at) is whether forum user base as a whole believes the stats page should be available. Period.


If you want my honest opinion...


I do prefer the stats page as available, I find statistics on things interesting, and I'd rather that it stayed, but in the end it's not that big of a deal. My personal amusement, no threads or anything. I'm not going to fight it or anything. It's really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. It happened so it happened, it happened a while ago, and it's not likely to change anytime soon, so it'd be better that those who wanted it to stay accepted that it's gone.

I am exactly the same way. I'm not overly concerned with stats, but I do find them interesting, and I would prefer that the stats page were visible. However, it would never influence any decisions I made - it would just be there for me to learn about the statistical "fun facts" about the forum. Since I love this forum so much, I find it interesting to learn these "fun facts" about it. But of course, I am most concerned with roads (although even when the stats stuff was going on, it did not detract from my contributions to roads).

Now regarding post counts, I would prefer they stay as well. Unfortunately, some people use post counts the wrong way, and they try to inflate them. However, most people do not do this. One of the most useful aspects of post counts that comes to my mind is regarding when users create threads. If someone with 5 posts creates a thread that is a duplicate of another, or it may accidentally violate forum rules, there will be much more understanding, because this person probably just joined, and they are just now learning and getting used to the rules and how to do things. Post counts don't always indicate how much someone is an established member, but sometimes they are quite competent with that. My post count (and me knowing it) does not affect my posts themselves at all. However, I like it to be there for reference. I am a fan of cumulative things. It is satisfying and fulfilling for me. This includes stuff like post counts and total time logged in. It means that overtime, contributions and time spent on the forum are adding up into a cumulative interesting statistic. I am in no rush to facilitate the speed of acceleration of these statistics - I post solely on what I want to post and contribute - but that is not affected by these statistics. I, for example, will feel very, very satisfied if I happen to create an extremely long post, and then see my cumulative post count increase by 1. This indicates that it isn't the quantity that matters to me, but the satisfaction of contributing to the forum, and also having a cumulative post count that is visible to me, that slowly increases over time. This liking of cumulative things also involves video games as well. I absolutely love it when a video game has statistics like "total miles driven" or "total time played" or an increasing Level that goes up (ex. Level 5, Level 23, Level 101, etc.). I don't do any unusual or unfavorable actions to drastically, deliberately affect these cumulative statistics. I go about my day and do these things (posting, browsing/reading (which increases "total time logged in"), playing video games) just as normal - not thinking about the statistics at all or purposefully trying to do something significant to them while I am actually posting or playing or whatever - but at the end of the day, it is fun for me to be able to look at my cumulative statistics. I like to have the ability to see these interesting statistics, but I don't obsess over them. It is just a neat but useful (for reference) thing on the side, while the main meal is reserved for roads.  :nod:
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2018, 11:56:25 PM
Shut the post count off while we're at it.  That was a really watered down period of posting when all the talk about forum stats or post counts.
It's been fairly well-established (by the mods and admin) that stats are not to be a talking point. Therefore, it is not a matter of "do stats/post counts cause problems?". It is purely a matter of "should they be available for viewing?".


Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2018, 09:10:57 AM
Also, this is what I've noticed about you personally webny99:  Since the stats have gone away, you've actually had many worthwhile contributions to the boards relating to roads and highways.
Well, thanks, I guess  :)
I would like to think that has always been the case (even during the period when I posted some stats-related stuff), but it would probably be counter-productive to this discussion to start arguing about that, so I'll accept this, as a compliment of sorts.


Quote from: froggie on April 25, 2018, 07:18:18 AM
some of the conversation in this thread will only reinforce their viewpoint that pulling stats access was the right thing to do.
You'll have to expound on that, as my efforts in this thread have been, primarily, to shift the discussion AWAY from "did discussion about stats cause problems in the past?".
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 25, 2018, 12:45:10 PM
Honestly, I didn't even notice the stats page existed until it was mentioned in the very thread that caused it to be disabled.

I'm afraid a lot of users didn't - and that fact - that the stats page itself was a novelty for some users (during the very time period when I was obsessed with it), created a mountain out of a mole hill and blew the whole thing out of proportion.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on April 25, 2018, 01:12:19 PM
Here is my feeling on stats:

if you see you need X number of stats to get to the next level, do you start posting utter crap just to boost your post count (it's happened). If you need Y number of stats to have more than someone you feel you are competing against, do you post junk simply to beat your "competition"?  I post when I feel I have something to contribute, not simply to boost my status.

If you're only here to see how many time you can post, you're doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: index on April 25, 2018, 01:34:04 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on April 25, 2018, 12:52:04 PM
Quote from: index on April 25, 2018, 09:13:18 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 24, 2018, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.
Without flinging old dirt, how so?
Why is it important to you?
What I am particularly interested in (and have been trying to get at) is whether forum user base as a whole believes the stats page should be available. Period.


If you want my honest opinion...


I do prefer the stats page as available, I find statistics on things interesting, and I'd rather that it stayed, but in the end it's not that big of a deal. My personal amusement, no threads or anything. I'm not going to fight it or anything. It's really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. It happened so it happened, it happened a while ago, and it's not likely to change anytime soon, so it'd be better that those who wanted it to stay accepted that it's gone.

I am exactly the same way. I'm not overly concerned with stats, but I do find them interesting, and I would prefer that the stats page were visible. However, it would never influence any decisions I made - it would just be there for me to learn about the statistical "fun facts" about the forum. Since I love this forum so much, I find it interesting to learn these "fun facts" about it. But of course, I am most concerned with roads (although even when the stats stuff was going on, it did not detract from my contributions to roads).

Now regarding post counts, I would prefer they stay as well. Unfortunately, some people use post counts the wrong way, and they try to inflate them. However, most people do not do this. One of the most useful aspects of post counts that comes to my mind is regarding when users create threads. If someone with 5 posts creates a thread that is a duplicate of another, or it may accidentally violate forum rules, there will be much more understanding, because this person probably just joined, and they are just now learning and getting used to the rules and how to do things. Post counts don't always indicate how much someone is an established member, but sometimes they are quite competent with that. My post count (and me knowing it) does not affect my posts themselves at all. However, I like it to be there for reference. I am a fan of cumulative things. It is satisfying and fulfilling for me. This includes stuff like post counts and total time logged in. It means that overtime, contributions and time spent on the forum are adding up into a cumulative interesting statistic. I am in no rush to facilitate the speed of acceleration of these statistics - I post solely on what I want to post and contribute - but that is not affected by these statistics. I, for example, will feel very, very satisfied if I happen to create an extremely long post, and then see my cumulative post count increase by 1. This indicates that it isn't the quantity that matters to me, but the satisfaction of contributing to the forum, and also having a cumulative post count that is visible to me, that slowly increases over time. This liking of cumulative things also involves video games as well. I absolutely love it when a video game has statistics like "total miles driven" or "total time played" or an increasing Level that goes up (ex. Level 5, Level 23, Level 101, etc.). I don't do any unusual or unfavorable actions to drastically, deliberately affect these cumulative statistics. I go about my day and do these things (posting, browsing/reading (which increases "total time logged in"), playing video games) just as normal - not thinking about the statistics at all or purposefully trying to do something significant to them while I am actually posting or playing or whatever - but at the end of the day, it is fun for me to be able to look at my cumulative statistics. I like to have the ability to see these interesting statistics, but I don't obsess over them. It is just a neat but useful (for reference) thing on the side, while the main meal is reserved for roads.  :nod:


You must be good at writing essays.  :bigass: 
Maybe fork over a little help with that with my assignments? /sarcasm
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: adventurernumber1 on April 25, 2018, 01:43:34 PM
Quote from: index on April 25, 2018, 01:34:04 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on April 25, 2018, 12:52:04 PM
Quote from: index on April 25, 2018, 09:13:18 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 24, 2018, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.
Without flinging old dirt, how so?
Why is it important to you?
What I am particularly interested in (and have been trying to get at) is whether forum user base as a whole believes the stats page should be available. Period.


If you want my honest opinion...


I do prefer the stats page as available, I find statistics on things interesting, and I'd rather that it stayed, but in the end it's not that big of a deal. My personal amusement, no threads or anything. I'm not going to fight it or anything. It's really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. It happened so it happened, it happened a while ago, and it's not likely to change anytime soon, so it'd be better that those who wanted it to stay accepted that it's gone.

I am exactly the same way. I'm not overly concerned with stats, but I do find them interesting, and I would prefer that the stats page were visible. However, it would never influence any decisions I made - it would just be there for me to learn about the statistical "fun facts" about the forum. Since I love this forum so much, I find it interesting to learn these "fun facts" about it. But of course, I am most concerned with roads (although even when the stats stuff was going on, it did not detract from my contributions to roads).

Now regarding post counts, I would prefer they stay as well. Unfortunately, some people use post counts the wrong way, and they try to inflate them. However, most people do not do this. One of the most useful aspects of post counts that comes to my mind is regarding when users create threads. If someone with 5 posts creates a thread that is a duplicate of another, or it may accidentally violate forum rules, there will be much more understanding, because this person probably just joined, and they are just now learning and getting used to the rules and how to do things. Post counts don't always indicate how much someone is an established member, but sometimes they are quite competent with that. My post count (and me knowing it) does not affect my posts themselves at all. However, I like it to be there for reference. I am a fan of cumulative things. It is satisfying and fulfilling for me. This includes stuff like post counts and total time logged in. It means that overtime, contributions and time spent on the forum are adding up into a cumulative interesting statistic. I am in no rush to facilitate the speed of acceleration of these statistics - I post solely on what I want to post and contribute - but that is not affected by these statistics. I, for example, will feel very, very satisfied if I happen to create an extremely long post, and then see my cumulative post count increase by 1. This indicates that it isn't the quantity that matters to me, but the satisfaction of contributing to the forum, and also having a cumulative post count that is visible to me, that slowly increases over time. This liking of cumulative things also involves video games as well. I absolutely love it when a video game has statistics like "total miles driven" or "total time played" or an increasing Level that goes up (ex. Level 5, Level 23, Level 101, etc.). I don't do any unusual or unfavorable actions to drastically, deliberately affect these cumulative statistics. I go about my day and do these things (posting, browsing/reading (which increases "total time logged in"), playing video games) just as normal - not thinking about the statistics at all or purposefully trying to do something significant to them while I am actually posting or playing or whatever - but at the end of the day, it is fun for me to be able to look at my cumulative statistics. I like to have the ability to see these interesting statistics, but I don't obsess over them. It is just a neat but useful (for reference) thing on the side, while the main meal is reserved for roads.  :nod:


You must be good at writing essays.  :bigass: 
Maybe fork over a little help with that with my assignments? /sarcasm

Haha, well thanks! I guess I'm pretty good at writing essays, but I tend to do better when I am freed from the 5 paragraph restrictions and don't have to write a thesis statement.  :-P
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 01:57:02 PM
Considering post counts are a major part of some people's beef with stats, I would have thought any admin/mod actions taken would have addressed our ability to view this page (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?action=mlist;sort=posts;start=0;desc). So there's today's dose of irony...

I don't think I've personally had problems with posting excessively to bump my status. I don't even know when most of the status bumps occur (for example, I know "turnpike" is next for me, but I don't know at what point the bump will occur [1500, maybe?]). Once it happens, though, I'll certainly notice, due to my nature of loving statistics, or "fun facts", I can't help noticing that stuff. However, my biggest obsession, in the past, was not even with post counts... it was with daily (and monthly and yearly) post counts for the entire forum. But I don't know of anyone else caring, or even noticing, much less trying to influence, this information. So, basically, since no one is discussing stats anymore, there is no reason for that stuff to remain hidden.

(Also, Roadgeekteen has had trouble with posting to bump status, but he has not been very actively recently, for whatever that's worth...)
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 25, 2018, 02:27:05 PM
I am in favor of the statistics page returning.  Its applications are much wider than comparative penis length measurement, and taking it away is a very heavy-handed way of discouraging filler posts.  However, I am not going to lobby hard for its restoration because, in the absence of a page dedicated specifically to their display, the statistics can be generated using a wget wrapper script, though at considerably higher cost in bandwidth for page retrieval etc.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 25, 2018, 02:30:48 PM
I would also support the page returning.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2018, 02:35:16 PM
If they're returned, there better not be a single thread started regarding anything with the stats.  The first person to do so gets a 30 day ban and 4 points on their license.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2018, 02:35:16 PM
If they're returned, there better not be a single thread started regarding anything with the stats.  The first person to do so gets a 30 day ban and 4 points on their license.

I won't be discussing stats. Period. That point has been hammered enough (and I get it - extensive discussion of stats became rather obtuse). I just want to be able to see the stats on occasion, and see no reason why this shouldn't be provided for.


Quote from: J N Winkler on April 25, 2018, 02:27:05 PM
...taking it away is a very heavy-handed way of discouraging filler posts.

Interestingly, I was never under the impression that the page was hidden to discourage filler posts. It was hidden because that was the preferred alternative, as opposed to banning all discussion of stats (at least that's the way it seemed at the time). I agree that doing so was rather a rather clumsy solution, which pushed my anger level into the "red zone" for several days. I actually considered starting more stats threads to prove that it was ineffective... fortunately, I had the sense not to do this, and instead opted to wait things out.

As I said upthread, I feel personally responsible for the loss of the stats page, but I also feel that hiding the page was an overreaction. That's why I'm not apologizing for anything which has ensued as a result of that decision.
The 30 days of moderated posts (which I also recieved) would have more than sufficed to keep me from posting stats-related content. Killing users' access to the stats page only added insult to injury (for me personally, anyways)...
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: formulanone on April 25, 2018, 03:25:51 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2018, 12:23:08 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 25, 2018, 11:33:22 AM
If you post it in Off-Topic, you can talk about gambling all you want.  Can you cite examples of Parking Lots we have "pulled the trigger" on (besides Marf)?

I was going to mention Alanland, but looking at his stats it was his 6th post, so even that doesn't qualify.

It's not a knock on mod practices.

I would imagine the staff bans spambots / questionable users with some regularity, to the point where there's no sense in making a big deal out it. Humph...maybe it's quite rare.

The most suspicious would be first-time posters.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on April 25, 2018, 03:27:37 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2018, 02:35:16 PM
If they're returned, there better not be a single thread started regarding anything with the stats.  The first person to do so gets a 30 day ban and 4 points on their license.

I won't be discussing stats. Period. That point has been hammered enough (and I get it - extensive discussion of stats became rather obtuse). I just want to be able to see the stats on occasion, and see no reason why this shouldn't be provided for.


You've not provided a reason for restoring it, other than you want it.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 25, 2018, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 25, 2018, 03:25:51 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2018, 12:23:08 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 25, 2018, 11:33:22 AM
If you post it in Off-Topic, you can talk about gambling all you want.  Can you cite examples of Parking Lots we have "pulled the trigger" on (besides Marf)?

I was going to mention Alanland, but looking at his stats it was his 6th post, so even that doesn't qualify.

It's not a knock on mod practices.

I would imagine the staff bans spambots / questionable users with some regularity, to the point where there's no sense in making a big deal out it. Humph...maybe it's quite rare.

The most suspicious would be first-time posters.

There are 3477 members, as shown on the home page, which doesn't count banned members (it's the same number as the members list, which doesn't list them if they're banned).
There are 3512 members using the default theme, and 5 that aren't.

This means that 40 accounts have been banned.

Note that I can find this without using the forum stats page.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on April 25, 2018, 05:08:41 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 25, 2018, 03:48:17 PM

There are 3477 members, as shown on the home page, which doesn't count banned members (it's the same number as the members list, which doesn't list them if they're banned).
There are 3512 members using the default theme, and 5 that aren't.

This means that 40 accounts have been banned.

Note that I can find this without using the forum stats page.

How do you know they are banned? We've had several members go dormant, then come back with a new account. In those cases, we delete the old account upon request. We've had several people simply request their accounts be deleted.


Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 25, 2018, 03:27:37 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2018, 02:35:16 PM
If they're returned, there better not be a single thread started regarding anything with the stats.  The first person to do so gets a 30 day ban and 4 points on their license.
I won't be discussing stats. Period. That point has been hammered enough (and I get it - extensive discussion of stats became rather obtuse). I just want to be able to see the stats on occasion, and see no reason why this shouldn't be provided for.
You've not provided a reason for restoring it, other than you want it.

Perhaps a more fundamental question is why the stats page has been visible by default since the forum's foundation. It provides interesting "fun facts" and occasionally useful information which can be absorbed by the user base. At least five other users, besides myself, have expressed support for restoring the page; not as a conversation piece, but as a dataset for times when a stat piques our interest.

I'm sure there are counter-arguments; but so far, my personal promise not to discuss stats in public forum space sufficiently negates those arguments.
The exception being the issue with users posting solely for status bumps - but that is a (non-current) issue outside my control and irrelevant to anything regarding the stats page.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: 20160805 on April 25, 2018, 08:03:41 PM
Gosh; didn't think I'd attract over a page of arguing in just 25 hours!  :-o

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on April 25, 2018, 12:52:04 PM-quotes snipped-
I am exactly the same way. I'm not overly concerned with stats, but I do find them interesting, and I would prefer that the stats page were visible. However, it would never influence any decisions I made - it would just be there for me to learn about the statistical "fun facts" about the forum. Since I butt this forum so much, I find it interesting to learn these "fun facts" about it. But of course, I am most concerned with roads (although even when the stats stuff was going on, it did not detract from my contributions to roads).

Now regarding post counts, I would prefer they stay as well. Unfortunately, some people use post counts the wrong way, and they try to inflate them. However, most people do not do this. One of the most useful aspects of post counts that comes to my mind is regarding when users create threads. If someone with 5 posts creates a thread that is a duplicate of another, or it may accidentally violate forum rules, there will be much more understanding, because this person probably just joined, and they are just now learning and getting used to the rules and how to do things. Post counts don't always indicate how much someone is an established member, but sometimes they are quite competent with that. My post count (and me knowing it) does not affect my posts themselves at all. However, I like it to be there for reference. I am a fan of cumulative things. It is satisfying and fulfilling for me. This includes stuff like post counts and total time logged in. It means that overtime, contributions and time spent on the forum are adding up into a cumulative interesting statistic. I am in no rush to facilitate the speed of acceleration of these statistics - I post solely on what I want to post and contribute - but that is not affected by these statistics. I, for example, will feel very, very satisfied if I happen to create an extremely long post, and then see my cumulative post count increase by 1. This indicates that it isn't the quantity that matters to me, but the satisfaction of contributing to the forum, and also having a cumulative post count that is visible to me, that slowly increases over time. This liking of cumulative things also involves video games as well. I absolutely butt it when a video game has statistics like "total miles driven" or "total time played" or an increasing Level that goes up (ex. Level 5, Level 23, Level 101, etc.). I don't do any unusual or unfavorable actions to drastically, deliberately affect these cumulative statistics. I go about my day and do these things (posting, browsing/reading (which increases "total time logged in"), playing video games) just as normal - not thinking about the statistics at all or purposefully trying to do something significant to them while I am actually posting or playing or whatever - but at the end of the day, it is fun for me to be able to look at my cumulative statistics. I like to have the ability to see these interesting statistics, but I don't obsess over them. It is just a neat but useful (for reference) thing on the side, while the main meal is reserved for roads.  :nod:

Personally I butt this post; this is pretty much exactly my own mindset, and I find it cool that someone else is like me in that regard.

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on April 25, 2018, 01:43:34 PM-other quotes snipped-
Quote from: index on April 25, 2018, 01:34:04 PM
You must be good at writing essays.  :bigass: 
Maybe fork over a little help with that with my assignments? /sarcasm

Haha, well thanks! I guess I'm pretty good at writing essays, but I tend to do better when I am freed from the 5 paragraph restrictions and don't have to write a thesis statement.  :-P

Eeyup.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Hurricane Rex on April 25, 2018, 08:10:56 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 25, 2018, 12:30:23 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2018, 11:56:25 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 24, 2018, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Your post in of itself proves that we're better off without it.
Without flinging old dirt, how so?
Why is it important to you?

The answer to the question isn't of any particular importance. What irks me, I guess, and what Rothman capitalized on, is my that my inherent involvement in this issue is proving to be a major obstruction as I try to look at it from an unbiased point of view.

What I am particularly interested in (and have been trying to get at) is whether forum user base as a whole believes the stats page should be available. Period.
Leave me (and all my stats threads and whatever else) completely out of the picture, long enough to form an answer to a very basic question: Should the stats page be something that is available to forum users? Two years ago, before I joined, what would your answer have been?

That's the only important question at play in this thread right now, so I'll just shut up for a while and see what everyone has to say.

Shut the post count off while we're at it.  That was a really watered down period of posting when all the talk about forum stats or post counts.  That's just my two-cents. 
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Post count serves nothing except an alternate dick-waving contest.
Agree with everything. The only thing I use the post count for is to time when I release certain fictional plans so I don't burn out too fast.

Edit:
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 01:57:02 PM
I don't think I've personally had problems with posting excessively to bump my status. I don't even know when most of the status bumps occur (for example, I know "turnpike" is next for me, but I don't know at what point the bump will occur [1500, maybe?]).

Ranks (correct me if I'm wrong) by post count:
0-2: Parking lot
2-24: dirt road
25-49: frontage road
50-99: artiel (don't know how to spell it)
100-249: county road
249-499: state route
500-999: US highway
1000-1499: expressway
1500-2999: turnpike
3000-4999: freeway
5000-9999: interstate
10,000+: likes the forum way, way too much
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on April 25, 2018, 08:18:59 PM
(https://blog.itil.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/flogging_dead_horse_what.jpg)
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Rothman on April 25, 2018, 09:04:04 PM
I sense an onslaught of webny posts.  Get rid of the post count if it happens.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on April 25, 2018, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 10:13:48 PM
When I've been smugly and high-handedly exploited and provoked and mistreated, I'm not a coward. I'm persistent and I have guts.

With that said, finishing with my beating-a-dead-horse would also be finishing with democracy as we know it today. And, sorry, but that just isn't happening. This is no way to treat a user (or a user base). Any unbiased spectator could easily pinpoint that at a first glance.

This list is a democracy? I thought Alex owned it?   :hmmm:

Quote
Perhaps a more fundamental question is why the stats page has been visible by default since the forum's foundation.

Maybe we never expected anyone to exploit the data?  Congratulations! You proved us wrong.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Alps on April 25, 2018, 11:34:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 10:13:48 PM
When I've been smugly and high-handedly exploited and provoked and mistreated, I'm not a coward. I'm persistent and I have guts.

With that said, finishing with my beating-a-dead-horse would also be finishing with democracy as we know it today. And, sorry, but that just isn't happening. This is no way to treat a user (or a user base). Any unbiased spectator could easily pinpoint that at a first glance.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Take a couple of days away as a breather. You're getting wound up.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 11:52:24 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 25, 2018, 10:33:51 PM
Maybe we never expected anyone to exploit the data?  Congratulations! You proved us wrong.
Quote... without flinging old dirt...

I never did anything with the intent of disrupting or harming the forum - I had no idea that commenting on some stats I found intriguing would explode into this. Anyways, I have extensively acknowledged my mistake and committed not to do anything similar in the future. There is nothing more I can do to compensate for the above concern.

To make me pay for misbehavior is one thing... to make everyone pay for a simple misunderstanding on my part is another thing altogether; absolute folly in the highest degree. I can only hope that's understandable, because that's exactly how I see it - crystal clear.


ETA: @Alps - *sigh*. You're right, of course. I need a vacation. But I'm still standing by everything I said.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: TheArkansasRoadgeek on April 26, 2018, 12:17:56 AM
The moment webny99 needs a vacation, but is still dodging shade:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/OaIBICPvTJC24/giphy.gif)

I think Gone with the Wind says it best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PjRsfPCo98
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: DaBigE on April 26, 2018, 01:54:49 AM
The presence (or lack thereof) of the stats doesn't bother me one bit, but I'll offer this suggestion: Bring them back for those who so desperately want them, but make a forum rule banning starting threads based on forum stats. Make breaking the rule a punishable offence. I would think those posts should be easy enough to moderate.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2018, 05:29:44 AM
I will make the following statistic available: 618,817. Too bad I didn't catch it when it was a palindrome.

Quote from: formulanone on April 25, 2018, 03:25:51 PM
I would imagine the staff bans spambots / questionable users with some regularity, to the point where there's no sense in making a big deal out it. Humph...maybe it's quite rare.

The most suspicious would be first-time posters.

Generally, they don't even get so far as to get a ban. We screen users at time of account creation in two ways. Firstly, the account creation form asks a question that they user is free to answer however they wish. One of the moderators reads the response to this question and, if it is overly generic or incoherent, can flag the account as suspicious or never enable it. We also check email addresses and IP addresses against lists of known spammers. This catches the vast majority of spamming attempts, especially automated ones.

Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 07:33:41 PM
Perhaps a more fundamental question is why the stats page has been visible by default since the forum's foundation.

The stats page was visible because the box on the configuration page was set to be checked by default by the SMF developers. It remained checked for ten years because, until then, none of the five users with access to it (seven if you count the two that had access and gave it up) had any reason to  consider the implications of the stats page being visible, over the years.

Quote from: J N Winkler on April 25, 2018, 02:27:05 PM
I am in favor of the statistics page returning.  Its applications are much wider than comparative penis length measurement, and taking it away is a very heavy-handed way of discouraging filler posts.

I'd be legitimately interested in knowing what some of the potential applications (from a user standpoint) are. I'll be honest–I can't think of any myself. They could be useful for estimating projected traffic flows and thus server resource usage, but I don't see why anyone other than Alex would need that.

There may have been other ways of resolving the situation, but it was seen as a simple solution with little of real value being lost to the majority of the members. Indeed, the sun rose the next day.

QuoteHowever, I am not going to lobby hard for its restoration because, in the absence of a page dedicated specifically to their display, the statistics can be generated using a wget wrapper script, though at considerably higher cost in bandwidth for page retrieval etc.

Subversive! I like it.

Uh, don't do that, though.

Quote from: DaBigE on April 26, 2018, 01:54:49 AM
The presence (or lack thereof) of the stats doesn't bother me one bit, but I'll offer this suggestion: Bring them back for those who so desperately want them, but make a forum rule banning starting threads based on forum stats. Make breaking the rule a punishable offence. I would think those posts should be easy enough to moderate.

It is a bit more complex than that, as the rationale for disabling the stats page is both to prevent threads based on statistics as well as preventing posting behavior modification to shape the trends in the statistics, e.g. by making large numbers of low-quality posts.

There have been a few posters in this thread that have expressed an opinion that post quality has gone up since the page was disabled.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: 20160805 on April 26, 2018, 06:51:44 AM
^ If I may ask, what would be an example of overly generic answers to that question (it's how you stumbled upon AARoads, right?), and what would be a good answer?  I'm just curious.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: formulanone on April 26, 2018, 08:10:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2018, 05:29:44 AM
Quote from: formulanone on April 25, 2018, 03:25:51 PM
I would imagine the staff bans spambots / questionable users with some regularity, to the point where there's no sense in making a big deal out it. Humph...maybe it's quite rare.

The most suspicious would be first-time posters.

Generally, they don't even get so far as to get a ban. We screen users at time of account creation in two ways. Firstly, the account creation form asks a question that they user is free to answer however they wish. One of the moderators reads the response to this question and, if it is overly generic or incoherent, can flag the account as suspicious or never enable it. We also check email addresses and IP addresses against lists of known spammers. This catches the vast majority of spamming attempts, especially automated ones.

Ah, that makes sense. Different forum software handles the user count differently than the next, and so you all vet the incoming requests before getting counted.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Alps on April 26, 2018, 08:27:09 AM
Quote from: 20160805 on April 26, 2018, 06:51:44 AM
^ If I may ask, what would be an example of overly generic answers to that question (it's how you stumbled upon AARoads, right?), and what would be a good answer?  I'm just curious.
"Interest"
"Discussion" (frequently misspelled)
"Want to exchange information"
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 26, 2018, 08:49:46 AM
Quote from: 20160805 on April 26, 2018, 06:51:44 AM
^ If I may ask, what would be an example of overly generic answers to that question (it's how you stumbled upon AARoads, right?), and what would be a good answer?  I'm just curious.

"Goats"
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on April 26, 2018, 09:06:31 AM
Quote from: 20160805 on April 26, 2018, 06:51:44 AM
^ If I may ask, what would be an example of overly generic answers to that question (it's how you stumbled upon AARoads, right?), and what would be a good answer?  I'm just curious.

In the immortal words of Georgia Road Geek: ROADS!

Exchanging ideas, sharing finds, finding common interest.

I was on MTR before AA Roads, but I was an early member here. But generally the same reasoning: sharing knowledge, ideas,  etc. And there's less noise over here, in general.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2018, 09:34:18 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 26, 2018, 08:49:46 AM
Quote from: 20160805 on April 26, 2018, 06:51:44 AM
^ If I may ask, what would be an example of overly generic answers to that question (it's how you stumbled upon AARoads, right?), and what would be a good answer?  I'm just curious.

"Goats"

Because of the shield gallery.  I used the pictures to cross-reference highway shields I was buying were the legit deal because most of them had some sort of information Jake put up.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hbelkins on April 26, 2018, 10:45:53 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2018, 05:29:44 AM

We also check email addresses and IP addresses against lists of known spammers. This catches the vast majority of spamming attempts, especially automated ones.

This brings up an interesting side discussion that has affected my job recently. Occasionally, someone will fall victim to a phishing attempt, despite numerous warnings from our IT people not to do so. This results in compromised email accounts from the ky.gov domain, which get used to send out spam. Occasionally this will cause the ky.gov domain to go on one of Spamcop's lists. That limits our ability to communicate with the outside world. In my case, at least two newspapers on my press release email list use email providers that subscribe to Spamcop's services. My press releases to those outlets will bounce, and it takes the equivalent of moving mountains by the Commonwealth's Office of Information Technology to get off those lists.

And inevitably, someone else will get phished and the cycle starts all over again.

If I may ask, which spam lists do you use, and have you ever had a situation where a legitimate IP address range or email domain got flagged as spam?
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 26, 2018, 11:33:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2018, 05:29:44 AMI'd be legitimately interested in knowing what some of the potential applications (from a user standpoint) are. I'll be honest–I can't think of any myself. They could be useful for estimating projected traffic flows and thus server resource usage, but I don't see why anyone other than Alex would need that.

It is easier to give a full overview of the potential applications with access to the actual page itself rather than memories of what it displays.  I recollect, however, that it shows post counts for the top posters, busiest times broken down by month/day of week/time of day with "all-time" records, busiest threads, busiest boards, etc.  This information can be put together with other data and some additional analysis to answer questions such as the following:

*  What are the top posters' mean and median daily post counts?  This information is useful for setting crapflooding limits.

*  What are the mean and median lengths of posts generated by a top poster and how does this compare to the mean and median post lengths for all forum users?  Is there a pattern in how post length changes over the course of a user's association with the forum?

*  In terms of the regional boards, how closely does post volume track the populations of the states (or parts of states) that form the region for each board?  (In the case of states split across multiple regions, such as Texas, there would be an element of arbitrariness in assigning counties to regions, but this could be finessed by looking at which regional board contains all or at least a majority of the discussion pertaining to a major metropolitan area in that state.)  This can then be used to answer questions such as whether there is any variation between regions in likelihood of having AARoads-active posters, whether variation found corresponds to availability of outdoor recreation opportunities (climate can be used as a proxy for this), etc.

This is really just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what is possible with statistical analysis.  Very little of it has to do with simple-minded ego gratification of the penis-length-measuring kind, or has the propensity to encourage crapflooding.  I appreciate that few if any forum regulars reported (or, probably, undertook) this kind of analysis in the ten years the forum statistics page was generally viewable, but on the other hand, to take it away as the result of objectionable use by one individual makes it much more difficult for others to start research of this kind.  It also forces us to forgo some of the potential benefits, such as better marketing of the forum (through avenues such as Facebook) to regions that are currently less well served in terms of road-related discussion.

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2018, 05:29:44 AMThere may have been other ways of resolving the situation, but it was seen as a simple solution with little of real value being lost to the majority of the members. Indeed, the sun rose the next day.

This is true.  However, since the sun is a flaming ball of gas about 93 million miles away from the Earth, it is guaranteed to rise even after a nuclear war.

I wonder if the decision to hide the statistics page would have been made if forum management had revolving membership, which one would ordinarily expect to raise the odds of someone aware of the potential research applications being involved in the decision.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Alps on April 26, 2018, 02:50:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 26, 2018, 10:45:53 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2018, 05:29:44 AM

We also check email addresses and IP addresses against lists of known spammers. This catches the vast majority of spamming attempts, especially automated ones.

This brings up an interesting side discussion that has affected my job recently. Occasionally, someone will fall victim to a phishing attempt, despite numerous warnings from our IT people not to do so. This results in compromised email accounts from the ky.gov domain, which get used to send out spam. Occasionally this will cause the ky.gov domain to go on one of Spamcop's lists. That limits our ability to communicate with the outside world. In my case, at least two newspapers on my press release email list use email providers that subscribe to Spamcop's services. My press releases to those outlets will bounce, and it takes the equivalent of moving mountains by the Commonwealth's Office of Information Technology to get off those lists.

And inevitably, someone else will get phished and the cycle starts all over again.

If I may ask, which spam lists do you use, and have you ever had a situation where a legitimate IP address range or email domain got flagged as spam?
I think it's in the forum's interest not to publicly disclose that.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2018, 03:45:38 PM
J.N. Winkler–you raise very good points, however, most of the applications you describe benefit the forum management (either through more effective automated moderation or through marketing) and would not necessarily be of interest to rank-and-file membership. Forum management still has access to the stats page. In any case, I would assume that Alex has a more detailed facility that provides much better data in the form of server-level statistics, though I have not gotten confirmation from him for this.

I am not aware that the AARoads forum itself has had any sort of active marketing done on its behalf; my understanding is that the "marketing strategy", so much as there is one, is search engine optimization through good content. Any sort of active marketing would be done by Alex alone, as it would inevitably cost money. I am not sure that there would be a whole lot of financial ROI for such a thing–I don't think banner ads pay well enough to justify the cost of advertising to bring in new users.

H.B. Elkins–While we could be tripped up by any number of edge cases, in all situations, accounts are vetted by hand, so an appearance on a spam list does not necessarily guarantee that an account would be rejected. In the specific case you cite, a moderator would almost certainly recognize the ky.gov domain as an unlikely source of spam, and regard its inclusion on the list as an error.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hbelkins on April 26, 2018, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2018, 03:45:38 PM
I am not aware that the AARoads forum itself has had any sort of active marketing done on its behalf; my understanding is that the "marketing strategy", so much as there is one, is search engine optimization through good content. Any sort of active marketing would be done by Alex alone, as it would inevitably cost money. I am not sure that there would be a whole lot of financial ROI for such a thing–I don't think banner ads pay well enough to justify the cost of advertising to bring in new users.

As a Facebook Page administrator, I will occasionally get a blurb show up in my news feed that I'm being given a $30 credit to promote a post on my Page. Unfortunately, it's not something for which I would like to use that credit to promote, and they never offer to promote for free a post that I would like to promote to get the word out about something.

Example: We recently had an employee recognized for statewide excellence in workers comp incident reporting. I got the "$30 credit" offer on that one. Yet I've never been offered that credit to promote a road closure, which would be in the public interest to have publicized far and wide.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 27, 2018, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2018, 05:29:44 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2018, 07:33:41 PM
Perhaps a more fundamental question is why the stats page has been visible by default since the forum's foundation.
...until then, none of the five users with access to it had any reason to consider the implications of the stats page being visible, over the years.

I understand that it was me that gave you a reason to consider the implications. The frustrating part is that I did it unknowingly and my hands are tied - I can't make you un-consider those implications (I can, however, try to make a case for why those implications are overstated/irrelevant, but I have had limited success in doing this).

Quote
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 25, 2018, 02:27:05 PM
I am in favor of the statistics page returning.  Its applications are much wider than comparative penis length measurement, and taking it away is a very heavy-handed way of discouraging filler posts.
I'd be legitimately interested in knowing what some of the potential applications (from a user standpoint) are. I'll be honest–I can't think of any myself.

JN has laid this out fairly well. It isn't really a question of need, it's a question of interest. Nothing on the stats page directly affects our ability to converse, but sometimes, it contains interesting stuff for those of us who are interested in trends (monthly and daily post accumulations, volume of new discussions, highly active times of day, etc.), and data (informative charts about longest threads, top posters, and such). For me personally, transparency is something appreciate and highly value; and transparency is significantly reduced by not having the extra stats visible.

QuoteThere may have been other ways of resolving the situation, but it was seen as a simple solution with little of real value being lost to the majority of the members. Indeed, the sun rose the next day.

While I suppose that is true in general, it seemed like there was a mismatch between the problem and the solution. The two problems were (1) stats threads, and (2) high volumes of low-quality posts. Hiding the page definitely addressed (1) in dramatic fashion, but (2) was the bigger problem, at least IMO. And the fact that the stats page is invisible - that does absolutely nothing to stop anyone from posting 500 fluff posts to get a status bump.

Quote from: DaBigE on April 26, 2018, 01:54:49 AM
The presence (or lack thereof) of the stats doesn't bother me one bit, but I'll offer this suggestion: Bring them back for those who so desperately want them, but make a forum rule banning starting threads based on forum stats. Make breaking the rule a punishable offence. I would think those posts should be easy enough to moderate.

At the time, it was outlined that hiding stats was easier than banning stats discussion. While that may have been true at the time, all it took was a reversal of my excessive stats-posting behavior to change that. Long-term, I highly doubt there will be anything to enforce, or even moderate, regarding stats. With that in mind, it would actually be a win-win to keep the page visible.*

*That goes out the window if people start discussing and exploiting the stats. Then, so the argument goes, the forum loses. But this didn't happen at all until I came along, so there's no reason to think it'll happen again.

QuoteIt is a bit more complex than that, as the rationale for disabling the stats page is both to prevent threads based on statistics as well as preventing posting behavior modification to shape the trends in the statistics, e.g. by making large numbers of low-quality posts.

Honestly, does anyone think I'm guilty of engaging in the bolded behavior? I would feel really bad if so, because I always try to make logical, valuable, and interesting contributions (even though I have overstepped at times). It sounds to me like this is something that was perceived rather than reality. If the mods/admin really thought that fluff posts were an issue with me, I would have liked to have been personally addressed and told to stop posting fluff before a more consequential action was taken.

For me, the two have always been completely separate: My posts are what they are, and the stats are what they are, but I never posted for the sole purpose of influencing the stats. Even the stats threads themselves were not something I posted to influence the stats, just stuff I thought people would be interested in and not stuff they would try to change.

Now, I'm not arguing that other users haven't posted a lot of low-quality, spam, posts. But I am arguing that that is a completely separate issue that was never related to the stats discussion. Posting for a status bump vs. posting to exploit the stats just aren't one and the same. The motives are easily separable... and to my knowledge the latter just wasn't happening.

Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hbelkins on April 27, 2018, 01:09:23 PM
If an issue is going to be made about transparency, it is my opinion that the biggest single step that could be taken in that regard would be to require forum users to use their real names, or some derivative thereof (such as my user name here.)
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 27, 2018, 01:15:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 27, 2018, 01:09:23 PM
If an issue is going to be made about transparency, it is my opinion that the biggest single step that could be taken in that regard would be to require forum users to use their real names, or some derivative thereof (such as my user name here.)

Many people (myself included) aren't comfortable giving out their real names (first and last) online.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: adventurernumber1 on April 27, 2018, 01:50:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 27, 2018, 01:09:23 PM
If an issue is going to be made about transparency, it is my opinion that the biggest single step that could be taken in that regard would be to require forum users to use their real names, or some derivative thereof (such as my user name here.)

My username (adventurernumber1) is unrelated to my real name, but I do have my real name outlined in my profile, which can be seen directly below my avatar when browsing through the forum (David Carson). However, what is the benefit of everyone being required to do so (since, as has been noted, not everyone is comfortable with it)?
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 27, 2018, 02:18:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 27, 2018, 01:09:23 PM
If an issue is going to be made about transparency, it is my opinion that the biggest single step that could be taken in that regard would be to require forum users to use their real names, or some derivative thereof (such as my user name here.)

I disagree as well (ironically, I know). 

And what's to say someone's using their real name?  John Smith could easily use Kevin Dean as their user name. 

On forums where I need to 'use' my name, I don't, and have a basic alias for that.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Alps on April 27, 2018, 06:30:55 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F540%2F658%2F5e8.jpg&hash=1efc0fe50894658dba274d64c6ac19c2be6fb0e8)
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on April 27, 2018, 08:02:55 PM
Quote from: Alps on April 27, 2018, 06:30:55 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F540%2F658%2F5e8.jpg&hash=1efc0fe50894658dba274d64c6ac19c2be6fb0e8)

But it squirts and twitches a little when I hit it! :awesomeface:
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 28, 2018, 04:39:01 AM
'5114' is the first four digits of the UPC code on a box of Ziploc bags that was sitting next to the computer when I was creating my first-ever forum account in 2003.

No, really.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2018, 08:52:55 AM
I just got done watching Fury Road when I created my account and user name..  So basically my screen name is nothing more grandiose than I enjoy Mad Max movies and happened to be watching one at the time I joined.  Some people didn't get the reference and thought it was my name. 
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: signalman on April 28, 2018, 09:53:36 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2018, 08:52:55 AM
I just got done watching Fury Road when I created my account and user name..  So basically my screen name is nothing more grandiose than I enjoy Mad Max movies and happened to be watching one at the time I joined.  Some people didn’t get the reference and thought it was my name. 
I had never made that connection, but it makes perfect sense now that you point it out.  I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one whose head it sailed over. 

As for my own name, I found this forum almost 9 years ago while researching Delaware traffic signals.  My name isn't really fitting for me, but I also lack creativity and this was the first user name to pop into my head when I was registering for an account. 
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US 89 on April 28, 2018, 10:17:46 AM
I was suffering from a severe lack of creativity when I made my account here. Is there a way to change my username to something else?
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: signalman on April 28, 2018, 10:23:50 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on April 28, 2018, 10:17:46 AM
I had no creativity when I made my account here, and "roadguy"  was taken already. Is there a way to change my username?
I know that a few others here have changed their user names.  I'm not exactly sure how one goes about doing so though.  I messaged a staff member about changing mine a couple of weeks ago, but that request went unanswered.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 28, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: signalman on April 28, 2018, 10:23:50 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on April 28, 2018, 10:17:46 AM
I had no creativity when I made my account here, and "roadguy"  was taken already. Is there a way to change my username?
I know that a few others here have changed their user names.  I'm not exactly sure how one goes about doing so though.  I messaged a staff member about changing mine a couple of weeks ago, but that request went unanswered.

I used to have a completely different account. When I wanted to change my username, I just created a new account. Then, when everyone found out, the admin team merged the two  :)

I wouldn't advocate doing this, as technically it's against forum rules to clone yourself. (I didnt know that at the time, though.) I'm not sure what the SOP is for username changes, but I would've thought, anyways, that PM'ing a mod would be an option. I think I recall something being said in the guidelines to that end, too.

And yeah, I'm one of the ones who thought "Max Rockatansky" was his real name... oops  :meh:




Anyways, back on topic...  :pan:  :pan:  :pan:
I laid some stuff out in reply #63, all of which still stands...
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: 20160805 on April 28, 2018, 12:05:41 PM
To change your username, IIRC you'll have to PM an admin and ask from there.

I bet my username is even more uncreative than most of yours: it's simply the date I joined in YYYYMMDD format.  I saw someone else on Reddit use his join date as his username, and I thought it was cool.  On that note, I was also known as 20170919 on another forum called The 110 Club (devoted to supercentenarians), but I got fed up with their jerky admin and so scrambled my password and left.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on April 28, 2018, 12:56:45 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 28, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
I used to have a completely different account. When I wanted to change my username, I just created a new account. Then, when everyone found out, the admin team merged the two  :)

Sure, ParrDa, that's for sure what happened. :bigass:
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Takumi on April 28, 2018, 01:27:10 PM
Takumi is the main character in Initial D, which I was into when I made my account here. Notably, I don't use this name anywhere else.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on April 28, 2018, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on April 28, 2018, 12:56:45 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 28, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
I used to have a completely different account. When I wanted to change my username, I just created a new account. Then, when everyone found out, the admin team merged the two  :)
Sure, ParrDa, that's for sure what happened. :bigass:

Well, it is what happened, even if I left out some details. ParrDa was my first username (congrats!) but it didn't really refer to my name either (well, sort of it did, but it was too veiled to decode anyways).
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: TheArkansasRoadgeek on April 28, 2018, 07:35:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2018, 04:39:01 AM
'5114' is the first four digits of the UPC code on a box of Ziploc bags that was sitting next to the computer when I was creating my first-ever forum account in 2003.

No, really.
Or the last four of your SSN? :bigass: :-D
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: freebrickproductions on April 29, 2018, 02:55:41 AM
My username is my username I use across multiple forums and websites, including YouTube which is where I pretty much started out.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: SSOWorld on April 29, 2018, 11:57:41 AM
anyone who knows me by my real name can figure out my user name contains at least two letters of it.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: TheArkansasRoadgeek on April 29, 2018, 03:04:08 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 29, 2018, 11:57:41 AM
anyone who knows me by my real name can figure out my user name contains at least two letters of it.
I seem to have made a connection with a recent thread on Arizona loop designations (Interstate status) and a Scott O through a linked thread from a different forum.

Is that you 'Scousin?
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on April 30, 2018, 10:55:04 PM
My name is Floyd R. Turbo, American
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 30, 2018, 11:02:20 PM
Quote from: signalman on April 28, 2018, 09:53:36 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2018, 08:52:55 AM
I just got done watching Fury Road when I created my account and user name..  So basically my screen name is nothing more grandiose than I enjoy Mad Max movies and happened to be watching one at the time I joined.  Some people didn't get the reference and thought it was my name. 
I had never made that connection, but it makes perfect sense now that you point it out.  I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one whose head it sailed over. 

The location tagline on my profile is from the opening scene in the original Mad Max.  Seemed road related enough...

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/roadwarrior/images/a/a9/Deathtoll.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/180?cb=20090717002902)

Incidentally I have the Main Force Patrol logo on my Challenger.  I thought it kind of resembled the 1973 Falcon XB Interceptor aside from the body kit and massive blower.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4522/38352516164_59bcbd682f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21r5ESG)IMG_0138 (https://flic.kr/p/21r5ESG) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 15, 2018, 08:42:43 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 15, 2018, 08:18:32 AM
Checking for updates ... ... ...  :pan:

The statement above is exactly why nothing has changed.

Also, personal opinion:  The  :pan: is the most annoying, overused emoji on these boards.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on May 15, 2018, 09:32:19 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 15, 2018, 08:18:32 AM
Checking for updates ... ... ...  :pan:

Well, here we go again
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: US71 on May 15, 2018, 10:52:38 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 15, 2018, 10:07:02 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 15, 2018, 08:42:43 AM
The  :pan: is the most annoying, overused emoji on these boards.

It may be [intentionally designed to be] annoying, but I don't think I overuse it.

Nothing like missing the point.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: hbelkins on May 15, 2018, 11:20:32 AM
Might be time for a thread lock.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 15, 2018, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 15, 2018, 11:20:32 AM
Might be time for a thread lock.

Or swing the conversation back towards screen names.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: MNHighwayMan on May 15, 2018, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 15, 2018, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 15, 2018, 11:20:32 AM
Might be time for a thread lock.
Or swing the conversation back towards screen names.

Nah, that would be better discussed in its own thread. I'm going to have to +1 hbelkins and say this needs a lock.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: webny99 on May 15, 2018, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on May 15, 2018, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 15, 2018, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 15, 2018, 11:20:32 AM
Might be time for a thread lock.
Or swing the conversation back towards screen names.

Nah, that would be better discussed in its own thread. I'm going to have to +1 hbelkins and say this needs a lock.

It wouldn't be long before some newbie or lurker came along and asked the same thing, anyways...
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: index on May 15, 2018, 04:07:26 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 15, 2018, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on May 15, 2018, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 15, 2018, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 15, 2018, 11:20:32 AM
Might be time for a thread lock.
Or swing the conversation back towards screen names.

Nah, that would be better discussed in its own thread. I'm going to have to +1 hbelkins and say this needs a lock.

It wouldn't be long before some newbie or lurker came along and asked the same thing, anyways...


Well, the question about why there isn't a stats page was already answered and justified within this thread. Locking it wouldn't really stop anyone from seeing it. +1 for a lock.
Title: Re: Forum stats link?
Post by: kphoger on May 15, 2018, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 24, 2018, 11:42:31 PM
Leave me (and all my stats threads and whatever else) completely out of the picture, long enough to form an answer to a very basic question: Should the stats page be something that is available to forum users? Two years ago, before I joined, what would your answer have been?

That's the only important question at play in this thread right now, so I'll just shut up for a while and see what everyone has to say.

I guess I was gone for a lot of this stuff, and I just now popped onto the thread to see what's up.  I might as well post my opinion, in case the thread gets locked.

It's unfair to expect a mod to forget you exist as a user in forming his opinion on the matter.  A mod's opinion about what info should or should not be available is necessarily linked to how he thinks users might misuse that info.  That you were called out on running amok with the site stats must influence the mods' opinions and decisions on whether site stats should be available to everyone.  How could you expect it not to?

Imagine if mod-to-mod discussion about whether or not to ban users were available to regular users on the forum.  (I actually accidentally discovered one such discussion on Google months ago because the conversation had somehow ended up being searchable–perhaps over a third-party service–but I had the common sense to not exploit the discovery.)  And now imagine that I started a thread (or multiple threads) digging up dirt on specific users from that information.  The discussions get taken down from public view, and I am chastised.  And then I have the gall to insist that the mods publicly state their opinion on the matter as if I had never done anything to misuse the information.  That would be an unreasonable expectation.