News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

NJ 55 extension brought up by US Senatorial Candidate

Started by J Route Z, October 02, 2018, 10:12:53 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

seicer

Would it be fair to say that the extension would be worth it if there was a bridge from Cape May south or when there is a hurricane?


Beltway

Quote from: Alps on October 04, 2018, 04:58:21 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 02:51:21 PM
In 1993 the use of bridging over wetlands hadn't really come into vogue yet, so I would question the use of environmental analysis from back then when the standard practice was to utilize earthen fill across wetlands.
I would say the bridging was well into vogue by then, but I completely agree with VMT conclusions.

I was trying to think of examples of bridging over wetlands ... it has been more like around 2003 that I can think of some.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

bzakharin

Quote from: seicer on October 04, 2018, 05:00:21 PM
Would it be fair to say that the extension would be worth it if there was a bridge from Cape May south or when there is a hurricane?
It's hard to predict the traffic patterns from a hypothetical bridge. If there were a hurricane ion the right (wrong?) place, certainly getting inland quicker and more capacity in general is always helpful. But such a hurricane is extremely unlikely. Even with Sandy none of the major mandatory evacuation areas (mostly barrier islands) would have been significantly helped by a completed NJ 55

Beltway

I wasn't aware just how far back the official planning of this freeway began --

In the mid-1950s, the New Jersey State Highway Department proposed two expressway connections from the Walt Whitman Bridge to shore points in southern New Jersey. The first connection, between the bridge and Atlantic City, was constructed as the NJ 42 Freeway and the Atlantic City Expressway. The second connection, between the bridge and Cape May County, eventually became known as the NJ 55 Freeway.
 
Soon after its inception, the NJ 55 Freeway was planned as a toll road: the "Cape May Expressway." On January 16, 1962, Governor Robert Meyner signed the New Jersey Expressway Authority Act into law. The Expressway Authority was authorized to issue revenue bonds to construct, maintain and operate both the Atlantic City Expressway and the Cape May Expressway.

When construction began in 1965, the Expressway Authority ceded control over the Cape May Expressway (NJ 55 Freeway) to the New Jersey State Highway Department, which became the New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT) soon thereafter. In its 1967 report New Jersey Highway Facts, the NJDOT described the purpose of the NJ 55 Freeway as follows:


The Route 55 Freeway will extend from US 9 in the vicinity of Cape May Court House, Cape May County to I-295 at Westville, Gloucester County. The route of this freeway was legislated in 1960.

http://www.phillyroads.com/roads/NJ-55/
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 06:40:18 PM
The Route 55 Freeway will extend from US 9 in the vicinity of Cape May Court House, Cape May County to I-295 at Westville, Gloucester County. The route of this freeway was legislated in 1960.

http://www.phillyroads.com/roads/NJ-55/

I've read this before.  I have never seen any hint of where Rt. 55 would've branched off from its current path, and headed towards US 130 (the actual statement shown below was written before I-295 existed, so it actually was going to terminate at US 130 in the Westville area).  I'd love to see a projected alignment though.  The originally proposed alignment had to change sometime in the 60's or 70's to go through Deptford instead.

BTW, here's the legislation: (27:6-1.  State highway routes set forth)  ROUTE NO. 55 .  Beginning at a point in Route U.S. 130 in the vicinity of Westville in the county of Gloucester, thence in a general southeasterly direction passing west of Vineland in the county of Cumberland and east of Millville in the county of Cumberland to a point in Route U.S. 9 in the vicinity of Cape May Court House in the county of Cape May.  The route shall traverse the counties of Gloucester, Salem, Cumberland and Cape May.(L.1964, c. 16, s. 1.) 

For other good reads, go to https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=Publish:10.1048/Enu and type in "State highway routes set forth" in the search box.  State Statute 27:6-1 should be one of the first few results, and it'll detail all the routes written into law.

Being I live in that general area, I look around and nearly the entire area had already been built up by then, highly spurred by the Ben Franklin and newer Walt Whitman Bridges.  I can't think of anyplace it could've gone without knocking down entire neighborhoods, which was fairly common back then. It probably would've been no more than a mile or so from where I live now.

Quote from: bzakharin on October 04, 2018, 06:02:51 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 04, 2018, 05:00:21 PM
Would it be fair to say that the extension would be worth it if there was a bridge from Cape May south or when there is a hurricane?
It's hard to predict the traffic patterns from a hypothetical bridge. If there were a hurricane ion the right (wrong?) place, certainly getting inland quicker and more capacity in general is always helpful. But such a hurricane is extremely unlikely. Even with Sandy none of the major mandatory evacuation areas (mostly barrier islands) would have been significantly helped by a completed NJ 55

Hurricanes thrive on warmer waters.  By the time they reach New Jersey, even the warmest waters are rarely about the mid-70's, and this along reduces the severity of many hurricanes.  Also, hurricanes that approach this area have tended to do so in September and October.  While the water tends to be warm in September, by the time October hits the temps have started to retreat.  Sandy is an example, hitting October 29, well after most post-season events occur.  As there are greatly fewer people in the shore area after Labor Day, the current routes appear to have sufficient capabilities to get people away from the shore during the most likely time they'll hit.  Even if one were to approach in August, as we've seen in Florida and the Carolinas you need a good 3 days to evacuate people, even on highways.   

It's also important to note just how far people will be evacuating.  In Florida, people evacuated a few hundred miles.  Up here, a few hundred miles puts you near well, Breezewood!  Unless they evacuate the entire state, the evacuations won't be nearly as long or far as what is experienced further south.

Don't get me wrong - I would absolutely love an all-highway route to the shore, even if they need to complete Route 55 as a toll road.  Not only is traffic getting heavier, but getting on a local roadway with a 50 mph speed limit, with the average traffic going 55 - 60, and getting stuck behind someone doing 45 is probably one of the biggest reasons why I hate roadtripping, or in this case going to the shore.   

While it's true that some growth has occurred along the shore area, and a full highway to the southern Jersey shore would be substantially better than dumping traffic onto Rt. 47, the numbers (and the excuse of the coastal evacuation needs) just don't justify the data that's out there.  And in the end, the engineers are going to rely on data, not scare tactics.

PHLBOS

#30
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 06:40:18 PMhttp://www.phillyroads.com/roads/NJ-55/
It's interesting that the 1969 map displayed in the site's Unbuilt NJ 55 Freeway section shows a proposed extension corridor that nearby to what later became NJ 347 and a parallel route to NJ 83.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

jeffandnicole

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 05, 2018, 08:48:11 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 06:40:18 PMhttp://www.phillyroads.com/roads/NJ-55/
It's interesting that the 1969 map displayed in the site's Unbuilt NJ 55 Freeway section shows a proposed extension corridor that later became NJ 347 and a parallel route to NJ 83.

If you look carefully, proposed 55 is slightly to the east of where 347 actually is located (which was basically a county route that the state slapped their shields on.

PHLBOS

#32
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 05, 2018, 08:58:46 AMIf you look carefully, proposed 55 is slightly to the east of where 347 actually is located (which was basically a county route that the state slapped their shields on.
Previous post edited/corrected to reflect such.

Regarding 347: if such is still a county route & if 55 was ever extended; would the NJ 347 designation go away?
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Henry

Bring on the NIMBYs...or the BANANAs, if you will. While the NJ 55 extension would be nice to see, I'm afraid that it will be shot down the same way as previous efforts. Then again, a toll road was built through the Everglades, so I guess anything is possible.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Roadrunner75

I recall that the Franklin map for Gloucester County (local Philly area map company) in the late 70s/early 80s used to show a couple of different proposed alignments for the northern section of 55, that was completed in the late 80s.  I wish I could find one of those maps - if it's not gone completely it's probably boxed up somewhere in the basement, a refugee from the old map drawer I spent a lot of time with as a child.  I think it might have shown one alignment closer to Westville/Woodbury (as referenced above) than the completed alignment.  I do remember that it was unusual (for their maps) in that it showed the multiple alignments as single dashed lines (as opposed to the double dashes it showed for other proposed divided highways) and that it used the rectangular 'County route' box for the route number rather than the state highway circle shown for 55 on the completed section further south.  As a side note, I recall the proposed alignment for the unbuilt US 322 freeway further south on their maps as well (when is someone going to resurrect that proposal again?)

bzakharin

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 05, 2018, 08:34:48 AM
Hurricanes thrive on warmer waters.  By the time they reach New Jersey, even the warmest waters are rarely about the mid-70's, and this along reduces the severity of many hurricanes.  Also, hurricanes that approach this area have tended to do so in September and October.  While the water tends to be warm in September, by the time October hits the temps have started to retreat.  Sandy is an example, hitting October 29, well after most post-season events occur.  As there are greatly fewer people in the shore area after Labor Day, the current routes appear to have sufficient capabilities to get people away from the shore during the most likely time they'll hit.  Even if one were to approach in August, as we've seen in Florida and the Carolinas you need a good 3 days to evacuate people, even on highways.   

It's also important to note just how far people will be evacuating.  In Florida, people evacuated a few hundred miles.  Up here, a few hundred miles puts you near well, Breezewood!  Unless they evacuate the entire state, the evacuations won't be nearly as long or far as what is experienced further south.

Don't get me wrong - I would absolutely love an all-highway route to the shore, even if they need to complete Route 55 as a toll road.  Not only is traffic getting heavier, but getting on a local roadway with a 50 mph speed limit, with the average traffic going 55 - 60, and getting stuck behind someone doing 45 is probably one of the biggest reasons why I hate roadtripping, or in this case going to the shore.   

While it's true that some growth has occurred along the shore area, and a full highway to the southern Jersey shore would be substantially better than dumping traffic onto Rt. 47, the numbers (and the excuse of the coastal evacuation needs) just don't justify the data that's out there.  And in the end, the engineers are going to rely on data, not scare tactics.
While partially true, there have been category 3 hurricanes hitting New England in August. The Gulf Stream is warm enough that a storm in the right place can strengthen or maintain strength very close to the area. New Jersey is inland compare to the Carolinas to the south and Long Island / New England to the north. Hurricanes in this area that make landfall are usually moving in a Northeast direction, meaning they hit land from the southwest. This is not possible for New Jersey unless the storm already made landfall further south and re-emerged over water. That means it has already weakened considerably. Hurricane Sandy's track is highly unusual, and it is unlikely that there would be a repeat any time soon.

mgk920

Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 09:21:58 AM
This is kinda significant:  On PDF Page 38: "The Route 55 Freeway Extension alternative provides an additional four lanes of capacity in the corridor which results in an exceptional level of service; however, it would be largely underutilized, even on a summer weekend". 
Ouch.

Errmm... that traffic projection was 25 years ago.  VMT steadily increases and even when in small percentages it really adds up after that many years.

In 1993 the use of bridging over wetlands hadn't really come into vogue yet, so I would question the use of environmental analysis from back then when the standard practice was to utilize earthen fill across wetlands.

The Madison, WI Beltline freeway (US 12/18) has such a bridge.  It dates to the mid-late 1980s and crosses the Yahara Marsh between Monona Dr and South Towne Dr.

https://goo.gl/maps/vwvMGmrf2n12

Mike

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on October 05, 2018, 09:51:03 AM
I recall that the Franklin map for Gloucester County (local Philly area map company) in the late 70s/early 80s used to show a couple of different proposed alignments for the northern section of 55, that was completed in the late 80s.  I wish I could find one of those maps - if it's not gone completely it's probably boxed up somewhere in the basement, a refugee from the old map drawer I spent a lot of time with as a child.  I think it might have shown one alignment closer to Westville/Woodbury (as referenced above) than the completed alignment.  I do remember that it was unusual (for their maps) in that it showed the multiple alignments as single dashed lines (as opposed to the double dashes it showed for other proposed divided highways) and that it used the rectangular 'County route' box for the route number rather than the state highway circle shown for 55 on the completed section further south.  As a side note, I recall the proposed alignment for the unbuilt US 322 freeway further south on their maps as well (when is someone going to resurrect that proposal again?)


There is some significant talk about a 322 Bypass around Rowan University in Glassboro.  The bypass won't have anything to do with the proposal you're referencing though, which was buried 6 feet in the ground.  A 1 mile bypass around Mullica Hill was built several years ago, and this new one will go around the built-up university area.  I haven't seen any proposed routes yet for it, although it almost definitely will be bypassing current 322 to the south.

Beltway

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 05, 2018, 08:58:46 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 05, 2018, 08:48:11 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 06:40:18 PMhttp://www.phillyroads.com/roads/NJ-55/
It's interesting that the 1969 map displayed in the site's Unbuilt NJ 55 Freeway section shows a proposed extension corridor that later became NJ 347 and a parallel route to NJ 83.
If you look carefully, proposed 55 is slightly to the east of where 347 actually is located (which was basically a county route that the state slapped their shields on.

There have been adjustments in the alignment over the years as the development of the highway has taken place, that would be to be expected.   Anything from 1969 would be dated and for various reasons adjustments in the alignment would be likely.

But it is interesting that actual official decisions took place as far back as 1962 when the New Jersey Expressway Authority Act became law and an Expressway Authority was authorized to issue revenue bonds to construct, maintain and operate both the Atlantic City Expressway and the Cape May Expressway.

The Cape May Expressway being conceptually what a completed NJ 55 Freeway would be.

The Atlantic City Expressway was completed in the 1960s and the Cape May Expressway was 2/3 completed by the late 1980s.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

DJStephens

#39
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 02:47:10 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 04, 2018, 02:43:57 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2018, 09:19:40 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 03, 2018, 04:21:50 PM
I base my estimates on what I see modeled in current STIPs, and in the case of rural freeways about $25 to $40 million per mile, and up to about $50 million if there is substantial bridgework.
Which, at about 20 miles, puts this project in the ballpark of $1 Billion.  Also, in addition to the bridges over wetlands, there are several bridges over local roads.  A few interchanges would be built, along with the mega interchange at the GSP.  Exit 21 of Rt. 55 could service NJ 47 in that area, although ramps to and from Rt. 55 south would need to be built to complete the interchange.

For a 20 mile long rural freeway the bridgework on the balance would be fairly routine.  Yes some wetlands bridges but no river crossing bridges.

So that would be in the $500 to $800 million range.

Virginia prices or New Jersey prices?

Remember, we have laws up here that state regardless if it's a union job or not, all workers must be paid union wages.  That immediately drives up the price of all projects in this state.

Would suspect New Jersey has one of the highest prevailing wage rates, if not the highest in the nation.  Likely the entry level laborer starts @ $20-22/hr, and quite possibly higher than that!!   



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.