US Routes Old alignment far from New Alignment

[roadman65]

In Iowa there was US 20 that when the current freeway was opened to traffic it moved the alignment of US 20 several miles to the south.

[DandyDan]

In Iowa there was US 20 that when the current freeway was opened to traffic it moved the alignment of US 20 several miles to the south.

That would be the old US 20 segment from Moorland west to Early. If you go east from Moorland through Fort Dodge all the way to Waterloo, much of that is far to the north, so much so between Iowa Falls and Cedar Falls that they made old US 20 IA 57.

[index]

Is US 17 ALT/Old US 17 through South Carolina far away enough? It's far enough away it serves a completely different corridor than mainline US 17 today.

Only the part of US 17 ALT south of Walterboro has ever been US 17, which then used today's SC 64 east back to Jacksonboro.  Okay technically some of the US 17 ALT multiplex with US 52 in Moncks Corner was US 17 from 1926-34.

The rest of US 17 ALT was a renumbering of SC 64 which used to extend all the way to the Georgetown area.

Ah...Well now I look kind of dumb don't I?    I had heard that US 17 ALT was formerly part of US 17, but what actually happened makes a lot more sense than just shifting a whole corridor throughout a state. Oh well, I learn something new every day.

[Mapmikey]

Is US 17 ALT/Old US 17 through South Carolina far away enough? It's far enough away it serves a completely different corridor than mainline US 17 today.

Only the part of US 17 ALT south of Walterboro has ever been US 17, which then used today's SC 64 east back to Jacksonboro.  Okay technically some of the US 17 ALT multiplex with US 52 in Moncks Corner was US 17 from 1926-34.

The rest of US 17 ALT was a renumbering of SC 64 which used to extend all the way to the Georgetown area.

Ah...Well now I look kind of dumb don't I?    I had heard that US 17 ALT was formerly part of US 17, but what actually happened makes a lot more sense than just shifting a whole corridor throughout a state. Oh well, I learn something new every day.

Here is how US 17 originally ran...the Florence alignment changed in 1934 and the Walterboro alignment changed in 1952...


1930 SCDOT Official


1933 SCDOT Official

[roadman65]

That would explain the geometry of the US 17 and SC 64 intersection as US 17 curves while SC 64 WB goes straight off of 17. 

[roadman65]

Too bad NY 17 was not made the US route it should have been, as it could be said that the freeway alignment west of Corning up to I-390 and then  SW to Hornell would be far away from NY 17's original alignment.  NY 417 is old 17 several miles to the south now of I-86 & NY 17 through the Southern Tier.

However, NY did not want another US route but for all practical purposes NY 17 was a defacto US route as it went several hundred miles and was a vital link in the state.  Heck its even longer than US 46 or US 130 are.

[Flint1979]

Too bad NY 17 was not made the US route it should have been, as it could be said that the freeway alignment west of Corning up to I-390 and then  SW to Hornell would be far away from NY 17's original alignment.  NY 417 is old 17 several miles to the south now of I-86 & NY 17 through the Southern Tier.

However, NY did not want another US route but for all practical purposes NY 17 was a defacto US route as it went several hundred miles and was a vital link in the state.  Heck its even longer than US 46 or US 130 are.

Lots of states have state highways longer than US-46 and US-130.

[Evan_Th]

However, NY did not want another US route but for all practical purposes NY 17 was a defacto US route as it went several hundred miles and was a vital link in the state.  Heck its even longer than US 46 or US 130 are.

Why was (is?) New York so hostile to US routes?

[Avalanchez71]

However, NY did not want another US route but for all practical purposes NY 17 was a defacto US route as it went several hundred miles and was a vital link in the state.  Heck its even longer than US 46 or US 130 are.

Why was (is?) New York so hostile to US routes?

[Flint1979]

I'm not sure that New York is hostile to US routes since there are 16 US routes in the state. At least US-9, US-11 and US-20 all have lengthy distances in the state.

[hotdogPi]

I'm not sure that New York is hostile to US routes since there are 16 US routes in the state. At least US-9, US-11 and US-20 all have lengthy distances in the state.

New York definitely is hostile to US routes. Compare it to any other state of similar size (suggested: IL, OH, PA). The only long US routes in New York are the three you mentioned and arguably 9W.

[3467]

I recall NY and CA  did have a policy to cut back the US routes. I bet they wouldn't have 20 if they could have put it on the thruway....like 51 in Illinois.
Illinois has tons of bypasses and new segments mostly close to old alignment. The farthest are 34 about 2 miles and 51 about 4 miles.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Did NY even have that many to begin with? The only one I can think of that they actually made an effort to remove was US 15. Certainly not like the states west of the Mississippi that relocated/eliminated aggressively.

EDIT: US 220 does not count.

[roadman65]

Too bad NY 17 was not made the US route it should have been, as it could be said that the freeway alignment west of Corning up to I-390 and then  SW to Hornell would be far away from NY 17's original alignment.  NY 417 is old 17 several miles to the south now of I-86 & NY 17 through the Southern Tier.

However, NY did not want another US route but for all practical purposes NY 17 was a defacto US route as it went several hundred miles and was a vital link in the state.  Heck its even longer than US 46 or US 130 are.

Lots of states have state highways longer than US-46 and US-130.

LA 1 is one of many.  However, the thing is that both US 46 and 130 have been bypassed by freeways also and these many other longer state routes are still independent and no parallel freeways.

[roadman65]

I'm not sure that New York is hostile to US routes since there are 16 US routes in the state. At least US-9, US-11 and US-20 all have lengthy distances in the state.

Yes they were and many of the veteran road enthuists here can contest hence why Long Island does not have US routes.  NY 27 and 25 could have been both extensions of US 22 and 46.  Also keep in mind that US 46 and 220 both end at the NY State Line and ditto for now defunct US 106 that also ended at the Delaware River (the PA/NY border).  US 106 connected to NY 52 which ends at US 6 in Westchester or Putnam County further east which leads one to believe that NY did not want US 106 or the others that end at the state lines in their state.

[froggie]

One not mentioned yet:  in the early days of the U.S. route system, US 2 ran to Wells River, VT instead of the direct routing between Montpelier and St. Johnsbury.

[ClassicHasClass]

I recall NY and CA  did have a policy to cut back the US routes.

It wasn't so much that California had it out for US highways; the 1964 Great Renumbering was a well-meaning attempt to simplify route numbering by eliminating duplicates and trying to hew to "one route, one number." And it did largely succeed.

That said, it did have its greatest negative effect on US highways because there were so many of them terminating in California and because Interstates had priority. Combine that with AASHTO's general disapproval of single-state routings under 300 miles and the result was understandable, if unfortunate.

I don't know NY's story.

[Mapmikey]

I'm not sure that New York is hostile to US routes since there are 16 US routes in the state. At least US-9, US-11 and US-20 all have lengthy distances in the state.

Yes they were and many of the veteran road enthuists here can contest hence why Long Island does not have US routes.  NY 27 and 25 could have been both extensions of US 22 and 46.  Also keep in mind that US 46 and 220 both end at the NY State Line and ditto for now defunct US 106 that also ended at the Delaware River (the PA/NY border).  US 106 connected to NY 52 which ends at US 6 in Westchester or Putnam County further east which leads one to believe that NY did not want US 106 or the others that end at the state lines in their state.

The New York representative to the AASHO effort to create the US system was definitely in favor of fewer US routes and definitely didn't want short connector pieces designated, the way Pennsylvania did:

From the June 15, 1925 meeting, pg. 35 at this link:
A general examination of the field map as brought to this group meeting at once produced the impression that too many roads had been selected and Mr. Greene of New York was especially desirous of reducing the mileage and the layout in New York was made accordingly. Mr. Greene said he thought he would on his own initiative send a copy of his State map to the other States in order that they could more clearly get his idea of a desirable density of transcontinental routes. He felt that the whole system should be very carefully gone over by the Joint Board with a view to eliminating a large number of alternates, short cuts and cross roads, which could not fairly be considered as of transcontinental significance, or even of major interstate importance.

Interestingly, on page 43 at the same link, there is this passage from the August 4, 1925 meeting:
Moved and seconded that it be the sense of this Board that the so-called South Tier road in southern New York be added to the system of routes. CARRIED

This suggests to me that the NY 17 corridor was approved as a US route.  I don't see anything further that gives its number or that it was withdrawn.  I am not from this area but I can't imagine this refers to US 20.

[Avalanchez71]

I'm not sure that New York is hostile to US routes since there are 16 US routes in the state. At least US-9, US-11 and US-20 all have lengthy distances in the state.

Yes they were and many of the veteran road enthuists here can contest hence why Long Island does not have US routes.  NY 27 and 25 could have been both extensions of US 22 and 46.  Also keep in mind that US 46 and 220 both end at the NY State Line and ditto for now defunct US 106 that also ended at the Delaware River (the PA/NY border).  US 106 connected to NY 52 which ends at US 6 in Westchester or Putnam County further east which leads one to believe that NY did not want US 106 or the others that end at the state lines in their state.

The New York representative to the AASHO effort to create the US system was definitely in favor of fewer US routes and definitely didn't want short connector pieces designated, the way Pennsylvania did:

From the June 15, 1925 meeting, pg. 35 at this link:
A general examination of the field map as brought to this group meeting at once produced the impression that too many roads had been selected and Mr. Greene of New York was especially desirous of reducing the mileage and the layout in New York was made accordingly. Mr. Greene said he thought he would on his own initiative send a copy of his State map to the other States in order that they could more clearly get his idea of a desirable density of transcontinental routes. He felt that the whole system should be very carefully gone over by the Joint Board with a view to eliminating a large number of alternates, short cuts and cross roads, which could not fairly be considered as of transcontinental significance, or even of major interstate importance.
Very interesting discussion and well thought out.
Interestingly, on page 43 at the same link, there is this passage from the August 4, 1925 meeting:
Moved and seconded that it be the sense of this Board that the so-called South Tier road in southern New York be added to the system of routes. CARRIED

This suggests to me that the NY 17 corridor was approved as a US route.  I don't see anything further that gives its number or that it was withdrawn.  I am not from this area but I can't imagine this refers to US 20.

[GaryV]

One not mentioned yet:  in the early days of the U.S. route system, US 2 ran to Wells River, VT instead of the direct routing between Montpelier and St. Johnsbury.

The western portion of US-2 had a variety of changes in the Upper Peninsula.  What are now shoreline routes west of St Ignace and around Manistique had routings that were inland.  The route veered away from Lake Michigan, and then veered back to connect to the shoreline towns.   Most of the old routings are now county roads, like Hiawatha Trail and Worth Road.  Some short portions of the old routings are included in state routes like M-149, M-94 and M-117. 

Another old routing from St Ignace to Sault Ste Marie is now covered by M-134 and M-129.  (And of course, US-2 was truncated to St Ignace some time after I-75 was built.)

[roadman65]

I would have liked to know if NY had wanted NY 17 to be a US route if NJ 17 would have been part of it too?

[jemacedo9]

The eastern terminus of US 422 moved from US 611 (now PA 611) or US 1 in Philadelphia (following Germantown Ave, Germantown Pike and Ridge Pike, and before that Germantown Ave and Ridge Pike) to it's current end at US 202 in King of Prussia...14 miles as the crow flies.

[roadman65]

Yes that is a great example!  It not only got truncated but give a new shorter alignment to a new end somewhere away from its original end.

[Flint1979]

I can see why Long Island doesn't have any US routes. They would all have to end on Long Island somewhere and wouldn't be thru routes to anywhere else. Perhaps US-46 could have extended to Long Island or maybe even US-30 or 40 considering they end very close together in Atlantic City.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I can see why Long Island doesn't have any US routes. They would all have to end on Long Island somewhere and wouldn't be thru routes to anywhere else. Perhaps US-46 could have extended to Long Island or maybe even US-30 or 40 considering they end very close together in Atlantic City.

I agree, but there are US routes that dead end (1, 41, 80, probably others)