http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2019_PM/012313/012313.aspx (http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2019_PM/012313/012313.aspx)
Opportunity to check out the current plans and chime in on recommendations.
http://ardot.gov/412.aspx (http://ardot.gov/412.aspx)
This has more info on the general plans for 412 and some of the results of previous open house meetings.
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 01, 2019, 12:30:25 AM
http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2019_PM/012313/012313.aspx (http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2019_PM/012313/012313.aspx)
Opportunity to check out the current plans and chime in on recommendations.
http://ardot.gov/412.aspx (http://ardot.gov/412.aspx)
This has more info on the general plans for 412 and some of the results of previous open house meetings.
A blast from the past. The 1998 corridor study was an interesting read!
ArDOT needs to do more of this.
And the Siloam Springs improvements vs. the bypass was a mistake.
The Entire Corridor Still Needs Improvement.
Quote from: M86 on May 02, 2019, 02:58:43 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 01, 2019, 12:30:25 AM
http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2019_PM/012313/012313.aspx (http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2019_PM/012313/012313.aspx)
Opportunity to check out the current plans and chime in on recommendations.
http://ardot.gov/412.aspx (http://ardot.gov/412.aspx)
This has more info on the general plans for 412 and some of the results of previous open house meetings.
A blast from the past. The 1998 corridor study was an interesting read!
ArDOT needs to do more of this.
And the Siloam Springs improvements vs. the bypass was a mistake.
A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south. I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from. They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.
I thought the stretch of US-412 between Tulsa and Springdale was a high priority corridor. There basically needs to be a continouous Interstate quality road going all the way from I-44 in Catoosa, OK to I-49 in NWA. Having Breezewood-esque gaps like the situation in Siloam Springs is pretty silly.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 03, 2019, 01:01:51 PM
I thought the stretch of US-412 between Tulsa and Springdale was a high priority corridor. There basically needs to be a continouous Interstate quality road going all the way from I-44 in Catoosa, OK to I-49 in NWA. Having Breezewood-esque gaps like the situation in Siloam Springs is pretty silly.
I can never tell if the Breezewood situation is an insult to a certain situation or a noteworthy example.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 03, 2019, 01:01:51 PM
I thought the stretch of US-412 between Tulsa and Springdale was a high priority corridor. There basically needs to be a continouous Interstate quality road going all the way from I-44 in Catoosa, OK to I-49 in NWA. Having Breezewood-esque gaps like the situation in Siloam Springs is pretty silly.
One of the few instances where OK got a leg up on AR: They built a turnpike right up to the border. They finally got AR off its duff to finish I-540 (now I-49).
Are you talking about the Cherokee Turnpike? That stops short of the AR border by a little over 8 miles. It turns into a regular 4-lane expressway at Dripping Springs. Then there's the 27 mile non-freeway gap between the West end of the turnpike and the Tulsa metro.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 03, 2019, 10:30:21 PM
Are you talking about the Cherokee Turnpike? That stops short of the AR border by a little over 8 miles. It turns into a regular 4-lane expressway at Dripping Springs. Then there's the 27 mile non-freeway gap between the West end of the turnpike and the Tulsa metro.
Ah but ODOT is SLOWLY upgrading it to a freeway. At the rate it is scheduled on the 8 Year Plan, it will be 2250 before they make it to Chouteau :)
Yep. So much for "high priority" corridors.
How much of US 412 in Arkansas might warrant an expansion to four lanes? How many bypasses might need to be constructed along the corridor?
The US-412 corridor needs to be a super highway from Tulsa to I-49. Upgrades of US-412 East of I-49 is probably tougher to sell.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 04, 2019, 03:02:32 PM
How much of US 412 in Arkansas might warrant an expansion to four lanes? How many bypasses might need to be constructed along the corridor?
Do you mean 4 lane, divided, limited access in many parts? All of it. The state needs a NWA to NEA corridor and cut out the down and up Conway/ Little Rock routing that persists today. The idea that the fadteat way to get from Fayetteville to Jonesboro envolves a drive feom Conway to Beebe is insane but that IS the routing of today.
Man, I used to hate going through those Speedtraps between Beebe and Conway along US 64 When I had to drive from Jonesboro to Fayetteville
Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 06, 2019, 09:34:54 AM
Man, I used to hate going through those Speedtraps between Beebe and Conway along US 64 When I had to drive from Jonesboro to Fayetteville
Go ahead and day it, Vilonia
Yep, that's it. I opined that 412 should be 4 lanes across the state 15 years ago...
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 02, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south. I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from. They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.
Oh, it will have decades of consequences. They're not going to come back through and build a full bypass of Siloam, after spending all that money to do 412 through the city.
Within Northwest Arkansas and that region, I think this was their biggest f*-up, at least while I lived there. Well, that and maybe when they put in a cable-median barrier on I-49/(probably then I-540) and then ripped it all up very shortly after between Bentonville and Fayetteville because of the much needed interstate expansion.
It's been a wild ride for ArDOT/former AHTD. At least it sounds like they're on track, somewhat. I'll sound like a broken record, but no more "5 lane Arkansas expressways", improve access management and update the antiquated roadway lighting policy (if they haven't already).
US 412 is sufficient at two lanes throughout the state.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 07, 2019, 02:25:27 AM
US 412 is sufficient at two lanes throughout the state.
BANANA
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 07, 2019, 02:25:27 AM
US 412 is sufficient at two lanes throughout the state.
I take it across the state to go from Fayetteville to Jonesboro at least twice a year for work. It is NOT sufficient to be a 2 lane across the state. I don't necessarily agree that it needs to be 4-lane divided all the way across at this point, but it certainly does all the way to Harrison with all of the NWA to Branson traffic that takes that route in tourist season. If you pull up Google Maps and try to navigate between Fayetteville and Jonesboro, the 2 fastest growing MSAs in Arkansas, the most direct route by 35 miles is US-412/US-63. But it takes 34 minutes longer to take the direct route because of the inability to pass trucks along many stretches of the journey due to insufficient passing zones/lanes. With about 4 more passing lanes up hills/mountains in either direction, between 10 to 15 minutes would be shaved off on the current alignment. But a new alignment expressway between Huntsville and Harrison would make the current detour down to Conway/Beebe a moot point in and of itself. And it's my assertion that Alpena AND Harrison should be bypassed to the south, which would shave off another 20 minutes just not having to stop and go through Harrison.
I just wish that Huntsville was closer to chime in with my ideas. It sucks to be gainfully employed with these meetings during the workweek almost an hour away.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 03, 2019, 01:01:51 PM
I thought the stretch of US-412 between Tulsa and Springdale was a high priority corridor. There basically needs to be a continouous Interstate quality road going all the way from I-44 in Catoosa, OK to I-49 in NWA. Having Breezewood-esque gaps like the situation in Siloam Springs is pretty silly.
It is. HPC-8. Trouble is, Arkansas has 4 HPCs to deal with (HPC-1, HPC-8, HPC-18, HPC-89), and the federal govt. isn't putting the high priority on them that the Congressional mandate should entail when it comes to the funding end of things. Arkansas is generally a pay-as-you-get-funds state and doesn't run debts as poor states shouldn't, else they can quickly get into trouble. We have in the past voted ourselves fractional cent sales taxes to issue and retire bonds specifically for specified projects, and that is why we've even been able to do what we have in the last couple of decades. But Arkansas, whether we like it or not, is a middle of the country transit state when it comes to traffic flows, other than Wal-Mart or eco-tourism that brings visitors in.
ARDOT: planning for last week, tomorrow.
IMO, they should finish the Springdale bypass before taking anything else on.
Quote from: M86 on May 07, 2019, 02:05:53 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 02, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south. I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from. They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.
Oh, it will have decades of consequences. They're not going to come back through and build a full bypass of Siloam, after spending all that money to do 412 through the city.
Within Northwest Arkansas and that region, I think this was their biggest f*-up, at least while I lived there. Well, that and maybe when they put in a cable-median barrier on I-49/(probably then I-540) and then ripped it all up very shortly after between Bentonville and Fayetteville because of the much needed interstate expansion.
It's been a wild ride for ArDOT/former AHTD. At least it sounds like they're on track, somewhat. I'll sound like a broken record, but no more "5 lane Arkansas expressways", improve access management and update the antiquated roadway lighting policy (if they haven't already).
What road lighting policy would you be referring to? I didn't know we had one. :hmmm:
Quote from: US71 on May 07, 2019, 11:21:03 AM
ARDOT: planning for last week, tomorrow.
IMO, they should finish the Springdale bypass before taking anything else on.
And if by some miracle I can actually attend this meeting, that would be my first comment as well. Sunset through Springdale and 112 between 412 and the bypass are congested nightmares. At least on Sunset, you do have the possibility of getting around someone doing 5 to 10 less than the speed limit.
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 07, 2019, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: M86 on May 07, 2019, 02:05:53 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 02, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south. I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from. They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.
Oh, it will have decades of consequences. They're not going to come back through and build a full bypass of Siloam, after spending all that money to do 412 through the city.
Within Northwest Arkansas and that region, I think this was their biggest f*-up, at least while I lived there. Well, that and maybe when they put in a cable-median barrier on I-49/(probably then I-540) and then ripped it all up very shortly after between Bentonville and Fayetteville because of the much needed interstate expansion.
It's been a wild ride for ArDOT/former AHTD. At least it sounds like they're on track, somewhat. I'll sound like a broken record, but no more "5 lane Arkansas expressways", improve access management and update the antiquated roadway lighting policy (if they haven't already).
What road lighting policy would you be referring to? I didn't know we had one. :hmmm:
Well, that's the thing, you don't. Are you with ArDOT? AHTD (then) had a policy of not installing roadway lighting on state maintained and Interstates. They left all of that to local agencies.
Quote from: M86 on May 08, 2019, 02:44:25 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 07, 2019, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: M86 on May 07, 2019, 02:05:53 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 02, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south. I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from. They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.
Oh, it will have decades of consequences. They're not going to come back through and build a full bypass of Siloam, after spending all that money to do 412 through the city.
Within Northwest Arkansas and that region, I think this was their biggest f*-up, at least while I lived there. Well, that and maybe when they put in a cable-median barrier on I-49/(probably then I-540) and then ripped it all up very shortly after between Bentonville and Fayetteville because of the much needed interstate expansion.
It's been a wild ride for ArDOT/former AHTD. At least it sounds like they're on track, somewhat. I'll sound like a broken record, but no more "5 lane Arkansas expressways", improve access management and update the antiquated roadway lighting policy (if they haven't already).
What road lighting policy would you be referring to? I didn't know we had one. :hmmm:
Well, that's the thing, you don't. Are you with ArDOT? AHTD (then) had a policy of not installing roadway lighting on state maintained and Interstates. They left all of that to local agencies.
Not with ARDot, just a frequent user of their products. I guess I shouldn't use the "we" pronoun. I agree that they need to have lighting of some sort at entrance and exit ramps regardless of whether they are in metropolitan areas or not.
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 07, 2019, 10:37:37 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 07, 2019, 02:25:27 AM
US 412 is sufficient at two lanes throughout the state.
I take it across the state to go from Fayetteville to Jonesboro at least twice a year for work. It is NOT sufficient to be a 2 lane across the state. I don't necessarily agree that it needs to be 4-lane divided all the way across at this point, but it certainly does all the way to Harrison with all of the NWA to Branson traffic that takes that route in tourist season. If you pull up Google Maps and try to navigate between Fayetteville and Jonesboro, the 2 fastest growing MSAs in Arkansas, the most direct route by 35 miles is US-412/US-63. But it takes 34 minutes longer to take the direct route because of the inability to pass trucks along many stretches of the journey due to insufficient passing zones/lanes. With about 4 more passing lanes up hills/mountains in either direction, between 10 to 15 minutes would be shaved off on the current alignment. But a new alignment expressway between Huntsville and Harrison would make the current detour down to Conway/Beebe a moot point in and of itself. And it's my assertion that Alpena AND Harrison should be bypassed to the south, which would shave off another 20 minutes just not having to stop and go through Harrison.
IMO, AHTD/ARDOT should have made the Huntsville bypass 4-Lanes. It could/should have been done when the road was widened west of there. Traffic on the east side is especially bad because Walmart moved out there.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 07, 2019, 02:25:27 AM
US 412 is sufficient at two lanes throughout the state.
You have obviously never driven the higher-trafficked portions of this route.
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 07, 2019, 10:37:37 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 07, 2019, 02:25:27 AM
US 412 is sufficient at two lanes throughout the state.
I take it across the state to go from Fayetteville to Jonesboro at least twice a year for work. It is NOT sufficient to be a 2 lane across the state.
You're wasting your time; Avalanchez71 just traipses into random threads about highway projects, declares them to be a "waste of money" despite having no apparent knowledge of the conditions on the ground, and moves on.
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 08, 2019, 09:08:07 AM
Not with ARDot, just a frequent user of their products. I guess I shouldn't use the "we" pronoun. I agree that they need to have lighting of some sort at entrance and exit ramps regardless of whether they are in metropolitan areas or not.
Absolutely. Look to other states. It makes a difference for travelers and their safety, and it's been proven with studies.
Looks like from the updated documents that posted after the meeting that they are adding and considering adding more passing lanes along US-412 and doing a bunch of intersection and traffic signal timing changes in Harrison, which should help somewhat reduce the travel time. Also, considering bypassing Alpena and Yellville, which should help quite a bit around school peak times. Also, looking into adding more 4-5 lane segments, likely in the more populated areas, before 2040. Nothing about bypassing Siloam Springs, which would be a huge mistake if not addressed before 2040. No funding identified yet for the west and east segments of AR-612 (US-412 Springdale/Tontitown/Bethel Heights/Sonora bypass). So, a mix of hope and despair as usual.
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 23, 2019, 11:58:58 PM
Looks like from the updated documents that posted after the meeting that they are adding and considering adding more passing lanes along US-412 and doing a bunch of intersection and traffic signal timing changes in Harrison, which should help somewhat reduce the travel time. Also, considering bypassing Alpena and Yellville, which should help quite a bit around school peak times. Also, looking into adding more 4-5 lane segments, likely in the more populated areas, before 2040. Nothing about bypassing Siloam Springs, which would be a huge mistake if not addressed before 2040. No funding identified yet for the west and east segments of AR-612 (US-412 Springdale/Tontitown/Bethel Heights/Sonora bypass). So, a mix of hope and despair as usual.
They've been talking an Alpena bypass for at least 20 years. At least since 412 was created.
Arkansas can't find the money to make significant progress on I-49, I-57 and I-69. So they just completed a study of US 412 that estimates it will cost $2.3 billion for a four-lane buildout:
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/jul/27/transstate-highways-cost-put-at-23-billion/
In terms of priorities, I wonder if it will move ahead of I-69. At any rate, the study seems timed to give North Arkansas voters something to think about in November in regard to the sales tax option.
Quote from: Grzrd on August 11, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
Arkansas can't find the money to make significant progress on I-49, I-57 and I-69. So they just completed a study of US 412 that estimates it will cost $2.3 billion for a four-lane buildout:
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/jul/27/transstate-highways-cost-put-at-23-billion/
In terms of priorities, I wonder if it will move ahead of I-69. At any rate, the study seems timed to give North Arkansas voters something to think about in November in regard to the sales tax option.
They've been talking about 412 for a while. There were some meetings a couple years ago on what they wanted to do and getting feedback. I thought the meetings were a waste of time.
I'll be driving this from Fayetteville to Jonesboro tomorrow evening for a gig in Jonesboro. It's a more enjoyable drive, as long as you don't get stuck behind a slowpoke.
Quote from: Grzrd on August 11, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
In terms of priorities, I wonder if it will move ahead of I-69. At any rate, the study seems timed to give North Arkansas voters something to think about in November in regard to the sales tax option.
It should
Quote from: Brooks on May 08, 2019, 10:59:39 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 07, 2019, 02:25:27 AM
US 412 is sufficient at two lanes throughout the state.
You have obviously never driven the higher-trafficked portions of this route.
If it were a straight, fast 2 lane he might have a bit of a point, but it's a narrow, winding, curvy 2 lane and it needs to be bypassed by a new terrain alignment most of the way across the state. It's ridiculous that you have to go through Conway to get from Fayetteville to Jonesboro.
US-412 issues for me is the RV's, 5th wheels and boat tows. Especially between Harrison and Mountain Home.
From Hardy to Imboden, it's no better than most state highways. Blind curves, poor pitch in places and hidden driveways and school bus stops.
When I-555 opened and US-63 was upgraded to Portia, I thought this might be a good route to take. Now I would rather go by way of Poplar Bluff.
Quote from: M86 on May 08, 2019, 02:44:25 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 07, 2019, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: M86 on May 07, 2019, 02:05:53 AM
Quote from: MikieTimT on May 02, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
A mistake that will cost more in the long run as more development north of Siloam Springs proper occurs, which is where any logical bypass would have to run due to terrain constraints to the south. I wish that the town hall meetings would be livestream/Twitter functionality as well to get more than 2 dozen people at a pop to get feedback from. They're still stuck in the last century with that mindset, though.
Oh, it will have decades of consequences. They're not going to come back through and build a full bypass of Siloam, after spending all that money to do 412 through the city.
Within Northwest Arkansas and that region, I think this was their biggest f*-up, at least while I lived there. Well, that and maybe when they put in a cable-median barrier on I-49/(probably then I-540) and then ripped it all up very shortly after between Bentonville and Fayetteville because of the much needed interstate expansion.
It's been a wild ride for ArDOT/former AHTD. At least it sounds like they're on track, somewhat. I'll sound like a broken record, but no more "5 lane Arkansas expressways", improve access management and update the antiquated roadway lighting policy (if they haven't already).
What road lighting policy would you be referring to? I didn't know we had one. :hmmm:
Well, that's the thing, you don't. Are you with ArDOT? AHTD (then) had a policy of not installing roadway lighting on state maintained and Interstates. They left all of that to local agencies.
On US 67 (future I-57) they [assuming ARDOT] installed overhead lighting at the new exit (21). It's the only exit on the freeway that I know of that has such lighting. They need to get on the ball and install overhead lighting on all of the more "major" interchanges on that route. (not counting from Sherwood SW to I-40).
Quote from: edwaleni on September 19, 2020, 09:30:52 PM
US-412 issues for me is the RV's, 5th wheels and boat tows. Especially between Harrison and Mountain Home.
From Hardy to Imboden, it's no better than most state highways. Blind curves, poor pitch in places and hidden driveways and school bus stops.
When I-555 opened and US-63 was upgraded to Portia, I thought this might be a good route to take. Now I would rather go by way of Poplar Bluff.
I just drove it again a couple of days ago from Fayetteville to Jonesboro. Really the parts that I see the most need for in the short term are about 5 more sets of climb lanes to get around traffic and a bypass of Harrison to the north. Making both of those things happen would make the already significantly shorter route catch up with the all freeway option that most take. I guess I'm weird in that I prefer the shorter and more scenic route to the quicker one that everyone else seems to prefer.