Looks like the south end of the US 12 freeway in Wisconsin will be permanent. From http://www.richmondbypass.com/uploads/Minutes/TAG4/min-011513-TAG-DCJ.pdf (http://www.richmondbypass.com/uploads/Minutes/TAG4/min-011513-TAG-DCJ.pdf)
QuoteThe USEPA, USACOE, and USFWS indicated that the alternative sections north of IL 173 and west of US 12 would not receive a permit and need to be removed from further consideration due to the high quality wetlands and upland bird habitat.
The remaining alternatives are more 'half bypasses' than a full bypass:
http://www.richmondbypass.com/uploads/Exhibits/PublicMeeting2/Exhibit%2012_Alternatives%20to%20Be%20Carried%20Forward.pdf (http://www.richmondbypass.com/uploads/Exhibits/PublicMeeting2/Exhibit%2012_Alternatives%20to%20Be%20Carried%20Forward.pdf)
what about some extreme ideas like a tunnel or elevated freeway?
How did state owned highway land become an bird habitat?
Can they route around it? Will this being cut down hurt the IL-53 / IL-120 work?
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on August 05, 2013, 12:19:31 AM
what about some extreme ideas like a tunnel or elevated freeway?
That would require imaginative thinking from IDOT. IDOT does not do imaginative thinking.
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on August 05, 2013, 12:19:31 AM
what about some extreme ideas like a tunnel or elevated freeway?
A tunnel would be way too expensive, and still fairly disruptive - would probably end up with a cut-and cover design.
Given that elevated sections are under consideration for parts of the IL 53 parkway, I think it is more of an issue with the permit issuers
Quote from: Joe the DragonHow did state owned highway land become an bird habitat?
I'd go with overzealous permit issuers again. It just looks like open fields that could easily be replaced elsewhere. I don't believe there are any endangered flightless birds in Illinois either that wouldn't relocate to a new area.
Quote from: Joe The DragonCan they route around it?
It does not appear so without requiring realignment of the freeway in Wisconsin. Even then, it looks like the same problems could easily sink any other alignment option.
Quote from: Joe The DragonWill this being cut down hurt the IL-53 / IL-120 work?
The IL 53 parkway is a completely separate project. ISTHA that IL 53 would be long done before any consideration of starting any tollway near Richmond - although given that on weekends WB IL 173 backs up from the US 12 intersection to the eastern boundary of Richmond, NB US 12 backs up from IL 173 to the railroad overpass north of the IL 31 intersection, and the IL 173 intersection with Wilmot Road develops quarter to half mile queues in all directions I would think ISTHA could have gotten some profits on a Super 2 starter tollway.
Although given the non-budging stance for wetlands on this corridor, I wouldn't be surprised if the IL 53 extension gets derailed again. Certainly will be interesting to see how the 66 corridor at the other end of the state fares.
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These things CAN be mitigated and I would just let the whole issue fester until we have a new government in Washington, DC.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 06, 2013, 11:23:19 AM
These things CAN be mitigated and I would just let the whole issue fester until we have a new government in Washington, DC.
Mike
That really doesn't factor into it as much. The problem is the stagnation in Springfield, and as I said above, IDOT does not do imaginative thinking. ISTHA does, but IDOT is very much a cookie-cutter DOT.
Quote from: mgk920 on August 06, 2013, 11:23:19 AM
These things CAN be mitigated and I would just let the whole issue fester until we have a new government in Washington, DC.
Mike
This is something that never happens.
Meanwhile on today's episode of "Things we should have done twenty years ago".
In all truth, I've not found much trouble getting through Richmond on 12 (various times of day, various days of the week). There have been two times I've had to bump around it on country roads in the last seven years. But the situation at the state line is a disgrace.