I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

[vdeane]

Well, that's very interesting then, because as mentioned, nowhere else uses extra-long skip lines no matter what their truck percentage is.  Even the World Trade bridge (which doesn't even allow cars) uses regular lines.

While unique, those extra-long lines are also a big part of the reason why driving at anything less than 80 feels very slow on the Turnpike.

[ilpt4u]

Well, that's very interesting then, because as mentioned, nowhere else uses extra-long skip lines no matter what their truck percentage is.  Even the World Trade bridge (which doesn't even allow cars) uses regular lines.

While unique, those extra-long lines are also a big part of the reason why driving at anything less than 80 feels very slow on the Turnpike.

Are you referring to the long Lane Stripes on the NJTP?

ISTHA uses the same or very similar ones. So does the Indiana Toll Road

[Alps]

Well, that's very interesting then, because as mentioned, nowhere else uses extra-long skip lines no matter what their truck percentage is.  Even the World Trade bridge (which doesn't even allow cars) uses regular lines.

While unique, those extra-long lines are also a big part of the reason why driving at anything less than 80 feels very slow on the Turnpike.

That's because the agency came up with it themselves. Many agencies used different spacings, and then most of them went to the MUTCD when that standardized at 10-30. (Some use 15-25 or similar still.) But NJTA never changed.

[MASTERNC]

Well, that's very interesting then, because as mentioned, nowhere else uses extra-long skip lines no matter what their truck percentage is.  Even the World Trade bridge (which doesn't even allow cars) uses regular lines.

While unique, those extra-long lines are also a big part of the reason why driving at anything less than 80 feels very slow on the Turnpike.

Are you referring to the long Lane Stripes on the NJTP?

ISTHA uses the same or very similar ones. So does the Indiana Toll Road

I'm also noticing the longer lines on the PA Turnpike

[Roadsguy]

Well, that's very interesting then, because as mentioned, nowhere else uses extra-long skip lines no matter what their truck percentage is.  Even the World Trade bridge (which doesn't even allow cars) uses regular lines.

While unique, those extra-long lines are also a big part of the reason why driving at anything less than 80 feels very slow on the Turnpike.

Are you referring to the long Lane Stripes on the NJTP?

ISTHA uses the same or very similar ones. So does the Indiana Toll Road

I'm also noticing the longer lines on the PA Turnpike

The PA Turnpike's line dashes are about half again as long as the normal ones, but not as long as the NJTP's, which are about half again longer as the PA Turnpike's. This can clearly be seen on the Delaware River Turnpike bridge, each half of which is maintained by the respective state's turnpike agency.

ISTHA's and the Indiana Toll Road's dashes are as long as the NJTP's.

On that note, there's been a lot of discussion specifically about the NJTP in this thread, even starting out only indirectly related to the 95/Turnpike interchange project (specifically, the I-95 signage on the NJTP). Can we get all these posts moved to the New Jersey Turnpike thread?

[famartin]

Well, that's very interesting then, because as mentioned, nowhere else uses extra-long skip lines no matter what their truck percentage is.  Even the World Trade bridge (which doesn't even allow cars) uses regular lines.

While unique, those extra-long lines are also a big part of the reason why driving at anything less than 80 feels very slow on the Turnpike.

Are you referring to the long Lane Stripes on the NJTP?

ISTHA uses the same or very similar ones. So does the Indiana Toll Road

I'm also noticing the longer lines on the PA Turnpike

The PA Turnpike's line dashes are about half again as long as the normal ones, but not as long as the NJTP's, which are about half again longer as the PA Turnpike's. This can clearly be seen on the Delaware River Turnpike bridge, each half of which is maintained by the respective state's turnpike agency.

Which brings an interesting question to the fore: Are there any other bridges where they are maintained jointly but separately in the manner the NJTA and PTC use with the Delaware River Bridge?  I don't recall any other instances where the maintenance differences were so visible... at one time, I recall both the bridge deck surface type and quality changed right at the state line (don't recall if it does this presently, though).

[BrianP]

Which brings an interesting question to the fore: Are there any other bridges where they are maintained jointly but separately in the manner the NJTA and PTC use with the Delaware River Bridge?  I don't recall any other instances where the maintenance differences were so visible... at one time, I recall both the bridge deck surface type and quality changed right at the state line (don't recall if it does this presently, though).

This made me think of the Glienicke Bridge in Germany.  It used to be maintained half by East and West Germany.  And you could see the difference, mainly by the slight difference in paint color..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glienicke_Bridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GlienickerBruecke_ty_20060908r0012648.jpg

[Beltway]

[quote author=Roadsguy link=topic=11707.msg2462594#msg2462594
Which brings an interesting question to the fore: Are there any other bridges where they are maintained jointly but separately in the manner the NJTA and PTC use with the Delaware River Bridge?

The I-95/I-495 Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (WWB), the new bridges that opened in 2006 and 2008.

Maryland and Virginia  jointly own and share responsibility for the Bridge.  The Initial Ownership Agreement was signed June 15th, 2001.

[ekt8750]

[quote author=Roadsguy link=topic=11707.msg2462594#msg2462594
Which brings an interesting question to the fore: Are there any other bridges where they are maintained jointly but separately in the manner the NJTA and PTC use with the Delaware River Bridge?

The I-95/I-495 Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (WWB), the new bridges that opened in 2006 and 2008.

Maryland and Virginia  jointly own and share responsibility for the Bridge.  The Initial Ownership Agreement was signed June 15th, 2001.

But do they maintain the bridge separately as PA and NJ do?

[Beltway]

[quote author=Roadsguy link=topic=11707.msg2462594#msg2462594
Which brings an interesting question to the fore: Are there any other bridges where they are maintained jointly but separately in the manner the NJTA and PTC use with the Delaware River Bridge?

The I-95/I-495 Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (WWB), the new bridges that opened in 2006 and 2008.
Maryland and Virginia  jointly own and share responsibility for the Bridge.  The Initial Ownership Agreement was signed June 15th, 2001.

But do they maintain the bridge separately as PA and NJ do?

No, jointly.  Some changes --

- VDOT is currently developing the Second Supplement with Maryland for
the proposed Woodrow Wilson Bridge Bundled Interstate Maintenance
Services Contract to define Operation, Inspection, and Maintenance
- Second Supplement is needed due to a change in performance method
and expiration of the First Supplement [ran from 2009 to 2020]
- Second Supplement defines how contractor payment is administered
between the two jurisdictions for the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge
Bundled Interstate Maintenance Services Contract.
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2019/dec/pres/7_wwb.pdf

Does PTC and NJTPA each maintain different parts of the Delaware River Bridge?

[famartin]

[quote author=Roadsguy link=topic=11707.msg2462594#msg2462594
Which brings an interesting question to the fore: Are there any other bridges where they are maintained jointly but separately in the manner the NJTA and PTC use with the Delaware River Bridge?

The I-95/I-495 Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (WWB), the new bridges that opened in 2006 and 2008.
Maryland and Virginia  jointly own and share responsibility for the Bridge.  The Initial Ownership Agreement was signed June 15th, 2001.

But do they maintain the bridge separately as PA and NJ do?

No, jointly.  Some changes --

- VDOT is currently developing the Second Supplement with Maryland for
the proposed Woodrow Wilson Bridge Bundled Interstate Maintenance
Services Contract to define Operation, Inspection, and Maintenance
- Second Supplement is needed due to a change in performance method
and expiration of the First Supplement [ran from 2009 to 2020]
- Second Supplement defines how contractor payment is administered
between the two jurisdictions for the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge
Bundled Interstate Maintenance Services Contract.
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2019/dec/pres/7_wwb.pdf

Does PTC and NJTPA each maintain different parts of the Delaware River Bridge?

Yes, and the difference has been more noticeable, at least in the past. I remember that years ago, the bridge deck went from cement exposed to asphalt overlay mid-span. Presently, though, per GSW, the only change I can see is that the median barrier changes mid-span.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1170158,-74.8304987,3a,75y,8.9h,58.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVV7GnhKQdlUkpVNE1Ou27A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[jeffandnicole]

[quote author=Roadsguy link=topic=11707.msg2462594#msg2462594
Which brings an interesting question to the fore: Are there any other bridges where they are maintained jointly but separately in the manner the NJTA and PTC use with the Delaware River Bridge?

The I-95/I-495 Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (WWB), the new bridges that opened in 2006 and 2008.
Maryland and Virginia  jointly own and share responsibility for the Bridge.  The Initial Ownership Agreement was signed June 15th, 2001.

But do they maintain the bridge separately as PA and NJ do?

No, jointly.  Some changes --

• VDOT is currently developing the Second Supplement with Maryland for
the proposed Woodrow Wilson Bridge Bundled Interstate Maintenance
Services Contract to define Operation, Inspection, and Maintenance
• Second Supplement is needed due to a change in performance method
and expiration of the First Supplement [ran from 2009 to 2020]
• Second Supplement defines how contractor payment is administered
between the two jurisdictions for the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge
Bundled Interstate Maintenance Services Contract.
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2019/dec/pres/7_wwb.pdf

Does PTC and NJTPA each maintain different parts of the Delaware River Bridge?

Yes, and the difference has been more noticeable, at least in the past. I remember that years ago, the bridge deck went from cement exposed to asphalt overlay mid-span. Presently, though, per GSW, the only change I can see is that the median barrier changes mid-span.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1170158,-74.8304987,3a,75y,8.9h,58.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVV7GnhKQdlUkpVNE1Ou27A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Not shown due to construction in that GSV, are the skip lines.  Going from a 4" wide, 12' long PTC line to a 6" wide, 25' line is extremely noticeable!

Also, it's been mentioned in many documents/minutes on the NJ Turnpike website that each agency will do regular maintenance work on their side of the bridge.  If it's a larger construction project or issue, such as the bridge painting shown in that GSV or the beam crack that occurred a few years ago, the NJ Turnpike will be the lead agency and the PTC will refund 50% of the expenses incurred.

[bzakharin]

[quote author=Roadsguy link=topic=11707.msg2462594#msg2462594
Which brings an interesting question to the fore: Are there any other bridges where they are maintained jointly but separately in the manner the NJTA and PTC use with the Delaware River Bridge?

The I-95/I-495 Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (WWB), the new bridges that opened in 2006 and 2008.
Maryland and Virginia  jointly own and share responsibility for the Bridge.  The Initial Ownership Agreement was signed June 15th, 2001.

But do they maintain the bridge separately as PA and NJ do?

No, jointly.  Some changes --

• VDOT is currently developing the Second Supplement with Maryland for
the proposed Woodrow Wilson Bridge Bundled Interstate Maintenance
Services Contract to define Operation, Inspection, and Maintenance
• Second Supplement is needed due to a change in performance method
and expiration of the First Supplement [ran from 2009 to 2020]
• Second Supplement defines how contractor payment is administered
between the two jurisdictions for the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge
Bundled Interstate Maintenance Services Contract.
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2019/dec/pres/7_wwb.pdf

Does PTC and NJTPA each maintain different parts of the Delaware River Bridge?

Yes, and the difference has been more noticeable, at least in the past. I remember that years ago, the bridge deck went from cement exposed to asphalt overlay mid-span. Presently, though, per GSW, the only change I can see is that the median barrier changes mid-span.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1170158,-74.8304987,3a,75y,8.9h,58.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVV7GnhKQdlUkpVNE1Ou27A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Is that I-276 mile marker still there? It's odd because all the other mile markers in GSV are for I-95. Did both agencies think the other one would replace it?

[Roadsguy]

[quote author=Roadsguy link=topic=11707.msg2462594#msg2462594
Which brings an interesting question to the fore: Are there any other bridges where they are maintained jointly but separately in the manner the NJTA and PTC use with the Delaware River Bridge?

The I-95/I-495 Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (WWB), the new bridges that opened in 2006 and 2008.
Maryland and Virginia  jointly own and share responsibility for the Bridge.  The Initial Ownership Agreement was signed June 15th, 2001.

But do they maintain the bridge separately as PA and NJ do?

No, jointly.  Some changes --

- VDOT is currently developing the Second Supplement with Maryland for
the proposed Woodrow Wilson Bridge Bundled Interstate Maintenance
Services Contract to define Operation, Inspection, and Maintenance
- Second Supplement is needed due to a change in performance method
and expiration of the First Supplement [ran from 2009 to 2020]
- Second Supplement defines how contractor payment is administered
between the two jurisdictions for the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge
Bundled Interstate Maintenance Services Contract.
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2019/dec/pres/7_wwb.pdf

Does PTC and NJTPA each maintain different parts of the Delaware River Bridge?

Yes, and the difference has been more noticeable, at least in the past. I remember that years ago, the bridge deck went from cement exposed to asphalt overlay mid-span. Presently, though, per GSW, the only change I can see is that the median barrier changes mid-span.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1170158,-74.8304987,3a,75y,8.9h,58.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVV7GnhKQdlUkpVNE1Ou27A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Is that I-276 mile marker still there? It's odd because all the other mile markers in GSV are for I-95. Did both agencies think the other one would replace it?

The bridge still had all of I-276's tenth-mile markers, including 359.0 at the state line, for a while after the rest east of the new interchange were switched to I-95's. This was probably due to the work that they were doing at the time, visible in the Street View imagery.

Can anyone confirm that they've all been changed over to I-95's mileage by now?

[akotchi]

They have.  The last marker is, I believe, 43.4 very close to the state line.

[Beltway]

Does PTC and NJTPA each maintain different parts of the Delaware River Bridge?

Yes, and the difference has been more noticeable, at least in the past. I remember that years ago, the bridge deck went from cement exposed to asphalt overlay mid-span. Presently, though, per GSW, the only change I can see is that the median barrier changes mid-span.

So they each maintain between their end of the bridge and about mid-span?

[jeffandnicole]

Does PTC and NJTPA each maintain different parts of the Delaware River Bridge?

Yes, and the difference has been more noticeable, at least in the past. I remember that years ago, the bridge deck went from cement exposed to asphalt overlay mid-span. Presently, though, per GSW, the only change I can see is that the median barrier changes mid-span.

So they each maintain between their end of the bridge and about mid-span?

Yep.

[Beltway]

Does PTC and NJTPA each maintain different parts of the Delaware River Bridge?

Yes, and the difference has been more noticeable, at least in the past. I remember that years ago, the bridge deck went from cement exposed to asphalt overlay mid-span. Presently, though, per GSW, the only change I can see is that the median barrier changes mid-span.

So they each maintain between their end of the bridge and about mid-span?

Yep.

What about ownership?

Joint ownership of the whole bridge?

[ekt8750]

Does PTC and NJTPA each maintain different parts of the Delaware River Bridge?

Yes, and the difference has been more noticeable, at least in the past. I remember that years ago, the bridge deck went from cement exposed to asphalt overlay mid-span. Presently, though, per GSW, the only change I can see is that the median barrier changes mid-span.

So they each maintain between their end of the bridge and about mid-span?

Yep.

What about ownership?

Joint ownership of the whole bridge?

Correct

[Beltway]

So they each maintain between their end of the bridge and about mid-span?

Yep.

What about ownership?  Joint ownership of the whole bridge?

Correct

So each maintains their half of the length of the bridge.

That is different from the WWB, but it should work fine if they coordinate plans.

[jeffandnicole]

So they each maintain between their end of the bridge and about mid-span?

Yep.

What about ownership?  Joint ownership of the whole bridge?

Correct

So each maintains their half of the length of the bridge.

That is different from the WWB, but it should work fine if they coordinate plans.

Been good for 60 years.

[NJRoadfan]

When the problem with the beam was found, NJTA was the "lead" agency coordinating the repair despite it being on the PA side of the bridge.

[SteveG1988]

When the PTC was upgrading their half of the span with LED lighting, it was weird having it switch to the old Sodium style lights mid-span. The bridge is fully converted now, and...is honestly in the best shape it has been in years, nice dark green paint, brand new suspender ropes. Just needs a full redecking but that is probably going to wait for the twin span.

[PHLBOS]

Sign Update:

Observations as of Dec. 22 (northbound) and Dec. 28(southbound):

On the PA side, the diagrammatic approach signs for the I-95 South/I-276 West split and the related lane striping has been modified.  RIGHT LANE legends have been added underneath the 95 SOUTH Philadelphia listings and the lower part of the diagrammatic arrow has been 'snipped' to only show two lanes (where it originally showed three lanes in its entirety). 

The striping approaching the I-95/276 gore has been modified the through-I-95 southbound movement utilizes only the right lane.  I guess these mods were done in reaction to PA Turnpike-bound traffic accidentally following I-95 southbound (to the Delaware Expressway) when such wanted to remain along the Turnpike (I-276).

Both southbound pull-through signs at Exit 8A still do not have I-95 shields placed on them.

[Roadsguy]

On the PA side, the diagrammatic approach signs for the I-95 South/I-276 West split and the related lane striping has been modified.  RIGHT LANE legends have been added underneath the 95 SOUTH Philadelphia listings and the lower part of the diagrammatic arrow has been 'snipped' to only show two lanes (where it originally showed three lanes in its entirety). 

The striping approaching the I-95/276 gore has been modified the through-I-95 southbound movement utilizes only the right lane.  I guess these mods were done in reaction to PA Turnpike-bound traffic accidentally following I-95 southbound (to the Delaware Expressway) when such wanted to remain along the Turnpike (I-276).

"Snipping" the diagrammatic to show where the lane actually starts was something I've thought they should have done, too, so it's good to see them actually do it, though I'd have preferred that to be done without changing the lanes at the same time. Still, if people I know from the area are any indication, changing the designations was confusing enough without physically changing where the lanes point.

I do think that ultimately having two lanes of continuity for I-95 should be the goal, though. Hopefully the eventual westbound widening between the US 13 interchange and the I-95 flyover will allow for this to be done with less confusing signage and lane configurations.

Was any other signage changed beyond adding "RIGHT LANE" to the diagrammatics?