Having just finished CT last night, this got me thinking. I clinched the entire state highway system and all I needed was a vehicle and a license. But there are some states where it isn't that easy. Most border states, obviously, require a passport and an excuse for crossing the border, but some interior states also have other restricted access problems, usually pertaining to military bases and an inability to make a U-turn in front of the gate or the fact that the highway continues into the base.
Below is what I can say based on my own knowledge, people more familiar with other parts of the country can chime in for restrictions to other states.
AL:
AK: requires entering Canada
AR:
AZ: requires entering Mexico
CA: requires entering Mexico
CO:
CT: none
DC: none
DE: none
FL:
GA:
HI:
IA:
ID: requires entering Canada
IN:
IL:
KS:
KY:
LA: requires visiting Angola prison
MA: none
MD: requires an illegal but physically possible U-turn at Aberdeen Proving Ground (MD 24)
ME: requires entering Canada
MI: requires entering Canada, one state highway is closed to cars but otherwise open to the public
MN: requires entering Canada
MO: requires entering Fort Leonard Wood (I-44 BS)
MS:
MT: requires entering Canada
NC:
ND: requires entering Canada
NE:
NH: none (U-turn available at border crossing)
NJ: requires entering Fort Dix (NJ 68)
NM: requires entering Mexico
NV: none
NY: requires entering Canada, requires a nexus card or ride on Amtrak (NY 182), requires an illegal but physically possible U-turn at Fort Drum (I-781)
OH:
OK:
OR:
PA: none
RI: none
SC:
SD:
TN:
TX: requires entering Mexico
UT:
VA: requires access to state capitol grounds and several prisons
VT: requires entering Canada
WA: requires entering Canada
WI:
WV:
WY: none
Pretty strict definition of clinching, honestly- I claim and will continue to claim clinches of the Washington and Arizona systems despite that at most of the border junctions I drove to the last available wide spot in the road to turn around and not enter either Canada or Mexico.
I kind of disagree on Arizona- there are no points where you can't get within about 100 feet of the border and turn around. I-19 ends on city streets that go clean to the border, and SR 189 has a u-turn lane. The others are all regular access roads. US 95 has a u-turn lane, and 85 and 286 are low traffic enough that you can flip a u-turn right at the border. 191 doesn't have a u-turn lane but there is an intersection right at the customs line. Washington has I-5 obviously, but I have crossed into Canada there.
I actually do agree with you on Idaho- US 95 has a solid u-turn route, but the POE on Idaho 1 is kind of offset from the border.
For purposes of this conversation though, with your strict definition- there's a few states out west (WY, UT, CO) where you have to pay a $25 park entrance fee to clinch the highway system. If that doesn't count, Wyoming is a "none."
Virginia has a few primary routes (or portions) that are not open to the public generally...mostly some prisons and also the state capitol driveway.
North Carolina has NC 172 through Camp LeJeune which no longer has through traffic access for non-military.
I believe South Carolina is clean on this question. SC 125 through the Savannah River Site is still a through route although you do have to stop at gates on each end...
Mapmikey
In Virginia, VA 318 is designated over the driveway to the state House in Richmond, and requires special clearance to go past the gate.
MI: Requires a bicycle or horse
Fort Polk is the place in question in my mind for Louisiana. It has quite a few state highways running through it. I feel like LA 10 is drivable, but I'm not sure about the ones with direct gate entrances such as LA 184.
Also I wonder about Angola prison. I know LA 66 ends at the main gate but I also remember a 3xxx highway that crosses the MS river by ferry on the back side maybe off of LA 1?
Anthony, urbanprairie, and others do y'all have any info I these or others?
Virginia has some secondary routes that are not open to the general public; for example, a few near my house that traverse Fort Belvoir used to be accessible but were closed off by the US Army after 9-11 and have never been reopened. There is also some small areas of secondary routes accessible only through North Carolina.
For Hawaii, Interstate H-3 ends just before a cross-street in front of the guard station at Marine Corps Base Kaneohe, so you can clinch it without entering the base.
But a few state and county routes end at base entrances, and there's not always a good opportunity to U-turn ahead of the gate. HI 92 comes to mind -- if you're still on the highway west of Interstate H-1 exit 15, uninterrupted concrete median dividers force you to go through one of two base gates (fortunately, the guards seem nice about turning you around just past the gate, lost tourists happen to them a lot).
As noted for Alaska, several state routes end at the border. For most, you can turn around before Canadian customs, but you'll still have to clear U.S. customs to return to Alaska. With most customs stations set back from the Alaska/Canada border (almost eight miles away on AK 98, since the border is atop a mountain pass, and U.S. customs uses the nearest patch of flat land), you'll have to drive past U.S. customs to even get within sight of the border.
As for NY, that "U-turn" (really a left turn, followed by another left on the other side of a median parking lot) between the end of I-781 and the Fort Drum guard station appears to be NOT illegal, as previously discussed elsewhere on this forum. There are armed sentries at the gate, none of which lodged any objection when I used that turnaround.
Some other states:
ND: requires entering Canada
MD: I'm pretty sure the state routes ending at or near military bases (such as MD 24, MD 152, and MD 715 to Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD 713 to Ft. Meade, MD 210) end at or before "restricted area" signs before the guard stations, where you can make a U-turn with no signs making that move illegal (traffic permitting, of course -- not a good idea heading toward the guard stations when there's heavy traffic leaving the base). As with I-781 in NY, I was able to make those moves without hassles from either military or civilian police. MD 246 to Patuxent NAS apparently includes a very short segment between MD 235 and the base entrance, where a U-turn might be harder to pull off, but I was able to clinch the route on a weekend when that entrance was closed and I was able to get as close to the gate as I wanted before turning back. So I'd put down MD in the "none" category.
OHIO: Requires an auto ferry trip to both Kelley's Island and South Bass Island on Lake Erie.
Quote from: oscar on June 23, 2014, 10:02:41 PM
As noted for Alaska, several state routes end at the border. For most, you can turn around before Canadian customs, but you'll still have to clear U.S. customs to return to Alaska. With most customs stations set back from the Alaska/Canada border (almost eight miles away on AK 98, since the border is atop a mountain pass, and U.S. customs uses the nearest patch of flat land), you'll have to drive past U.S. customs to even get within sight of the border.
What are the ramifications of passing through U.S. entry stations without having left the U.S.? What's the proper way to explain yourself? (It's happened to me once when I visited the north end of NY 22.)
Quote from: empirestate on June 24, 2014, 08:37:30 AM
What are the ramifications of passing through U.S. entry stations without having left the U.S.? What's the proper way to explain yourself? (It's happened to me once when I visited the north end of NY 22.)
they look at you funny and ask many questions. I clinched I-29 this way and they kept me there for about two hours. it didn't help that it was 2-4am and they were simply bored.
"you wanted to drive 29 from beginning to end?"
"yes sir, that is correct."
"... why?"
"I want to drive the entire interstate highway system." [I didn't mention that I only wanted to drive the one- and two-digit routes.]
"so you decided to get on 29 in Kansas City, and not stop until the Canadian border?"
"except to get gas and food, essentially yes."
"... why?"
this went on for a while. it was pretty tedious.
Quote from: empirestate on June 24, 2014, 08:37:30 AM
Quote from: oscar on June 23, 2014, 10:02:41 PM
As noted for Alaska, several state routes end at the border. For most, you can turn around before Canadian customs, but you'll still have to clear U.S. customs to return to Alaska. With most customs stations set back from the Alaska/Canada border (almost eight miles away on AK 98, since the border is atop a mountain pass, and U.S. customs uses the nearest patch of flat land), you'll have to drive past U.S. customs to even get within sight of the border.
What are the ramifications of passing through U.S. entry stations without having left the U.S.? What's the proper way to explain yourself? (It's happened to me once when I visited the north end of NY 22.)
I can't address this generally, but the one time I did that, where the Alaska Highway crosses the U.S./Canada border, I explained that I wanted to take photos of the small park and other signs at the border. No problem getting back through U.S. customs. That was pre-9/11, so things might be a bit tougher now (though in 2012 I did a conventional border crossing from the Yukon into Alaska, which was a trouble-free crossing even though I seem to be a magnet for vehicle searches at other crossings).
The park at the border includes a bench with the border marked on it (http://www.alaskaroads.com/AK-YT-border-bench-large.jpg), so you can sit in the middle with one butt cheek in the U.S. and the other in Canada. Customs for both countries seem a bit relaxed about border enforcement in the 20-mile-wide "no man's land" between U.S. and Canadian customs on the Alaska Highway.
There are other places where a hassle-free "spinback" into and out of Canada might be possible, such as the U.S. 281 crossing in North Dakota at the International Peace Garden. As with the Alaska Highway crossing, you still have to clear customs for your destination (including if you're returning the way you came) after leaving the park, even though you can flit back and forth across the border within the park without hindrance.
I would disagree with Oscar in regards to Maryland, at least with MD 24, which has apparently seen recent security improvements to the gate approach (I saw these a couple months ago when I clinched it).
Regarding I-781 NY, it depends on where NYSDOT and FHWA consider the terminus to be. 'Course, being active duty (albeit for only another week), I had no problem going through the gate.
Back on topic, Minnesota has a section of state highway (MN 289) that's physically inside a prison, so the general public will be unable to clinch that route.
Some Florida state roads that require turn around's (for road enthusiasts other than froggie during the next week):
You can turn around at an elementary school just before the Eglin AFB entrance on FL 397 south in Valparaiso.
The other end of FL 397 is at the intersection with FL 189, so you turn left there vs. going directly into the Eglin gate.
The south end of FL 295 requires turning around ahead of the Bayou Grande bridge (there are businesses along side the route, so it is permissible). If you feel the need to drive the bridge, you default into the gate. However if you are visiting the Naval Aviation Museum, you are permitted on base (the museum is well worth a visit).
FL 285 traverses a long forested stretch of Eglin AFB and can be closed during maneuvers, but otherwise is unrestricted.
FL 173 officially ends at CR 292, with the small connector to Pensacola NAS as unsigned CR-173. Again you can drive that stretch if you are headed to the Naval Aviation Museum.
Also FL 401 ends at the entrance to Patrick AFB. The road passes by a refinery, where you can turn around before committing to the gate.
Quote from: froggie on June 24, 2014, 11:14:06 AM
I would disagree with Oscar in regards to Maryland, at least with MD 24, which has apparently seen recent security improvements to the gate approach (I saw these a couple months ago when I clinched it).
As with I-781, that depends on exactly where MD 24 ends. Clinched Highway Mapping places the south end (http://cmap.m-plex.com/hb/hwymap.php?sys=usamd&rg=all&gr=p&r=md.md024&showint=0&dl=0) just south of the railroad tracks, within the base but north of the entrance gates and the median divider in the gate area. Even if there's no turnaround within the gate area, that wouldn't matter if the state route stops short of the gate area.
I was there a few weekends ago, when I clinched the southern end of MD 24 as CHM has it.
Isn't there a highway somewhere that goes through the grounds of a state prison? I remember reading about a roadgeek getting very reluctant permission from a security guard to clinch it at night. I can't read, since Froggie already mentioned it.
Quote from: GaryV on June 23, 2014, 09:06:41 PM
MI: Requires a bicycle or horse
Or your feet! I'm not sure if M-185 counts as "special access required", but since no cars are allowed... maybe.
Quote from: oscar on June 24, 2014, 11:36:29 AM
I was there a few weekends ago, when I clinched the southern end of MD 24 as CHM has it.
CHM has MD 24's end correct. Check out the vintage BEGIN maintenance sign...
http://goo.gl/maps/iJA5Z
Mapmikey
Quote from: Alex on June 24, 2014, 11:33:21 AM
Some Florida state roads that require turn around's (for road enthusiasts other than froggie during the next week):
....
The south end of FL 295 requires turning around ahead of the Bayou Grande bridge (there are businesses along side the route, so it is permissible). If you feel the need to drive the bridge, you default into the gate. However if you are visiting the Naval Aviation Museum, you are permitted on base (the museum is well worth a visit).
FL 285 traverses a long forested stretch of Eglin AFB and can be closed during maneuvers, but otherwise is unrestricted.
FL 173 officially ends at CR 292, with the small connector to Pensacola NAS as unsigned CR-173. Again you can drive that stretch if you are headed to the Naval Aviation Museum.
Base museums can be a good excuse to get into a base, at least if you're a U.S. citizen, can present a photo ID, there's no heightened security measures, the museums are open during the hours you say you'll be visiting (check ahead to make sure your story will hold up), and you ask for directions to the museum so you don't stray into other areas of the base.
But nobody, not even froggie, should try that at Area 51, which definitely puts out the unwelcome mat for visitors (//www.alaskaroads.com/area51-unwelcome-signs.jpg), with "use of deadly force authorized" signs to underscore the point. Fortunately, AFAIK no Nevada state or other numbered highways go to Area 51.
MO: An Interstate business spur supposedly goes into the Fort Leonard Wood Army base, well past the base's north entrance gate (http://cmap.m-plex.com/hb/hwymap.php?sys=usaib&rg=all&gr=p&pg=2&r=mo.i044bsstr&showint=0&dl=0). However, there is no route signage to confirm that.
I used the "visiting the museum" explanation to get onto the base, and clinch the supposed business route.
Quote from: oscar on June 24, 2014, 11:03:28 AMCustoms for both countries seem a bit relaxed about border enforcement in the 20-mile-wide "no man's land" between U.S. and Canadian customs on the Alaska Highway.
the Alaska station on the Alcan was one of the most hassle-free returns to the US from Canada I've ever done. in fact, it's the only hassle-free one I've had since the mid-2000s.
the Canadian counterpart on the return trip just could not wrap her head around why we would be in Alaska for 2 days and promptly turn around, all in the middle of winter. (then again, my noting that it was March 22nd, and thus it counted more as "early spring" probably didn't earn me any points.)
she did the whole bad-cop routine of "if I am to search your car, will I find any surprises?" I think I responded with something to the effect of "just search the damn car already; enough with the stupid mind games."
As far as national parks, a lot of U.S. highways and state highways aren't technically designated through the park. That might not be what cmap has though...
Quote from: bassoon1986 on June 23, 2014, 09:11:24 PM
Fort Polk is the place in question in my mind for Louisiana. It has quite a few state highways running through it. I feel like LA 10 is drivable, but I'm not sure about the ones with direct gate entrances such as LA 184.
Also I wonder about Angola prison. I know LA 66 ends at the main gate but I also remember a 3xxx highway that crosses the MS river by ferry on the back side maybe off of LA 1?
Anthony, urbanprairie, and others do y'all have any info I these or others?
Glad to help.
LA 10 skirts the south side of the secured part of the base, and is traversable to US 171.
From what can be discerned using the DOTD maps, LA 184, 467 and 469 terminate at the base gates.
Pretty sure LA 66 ends at the entrance to Angola. The roads within the prison would presumably be state maintained, but are not part of the regular state highway system.
LA 3190 comprises the Angola ferry and its approaches. From what I understand, the ferry is only open to prison employees, except during special events like the Angola Rodeo when it is open to the general public.
Is Centralia, Penn., still an obstacle to Route 61?
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 24, 2014, 06:35:56 PM
Is Centralia, Penn., still an obstacle to Route 61?
Route 61 technically exists on QR/SR 2002 nearby, chevrons points you in that direction. Consider it permanent really. Even if it says END SR 61 nearby.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/12160972586_565ea65631_c.jpg)
Quote from: getemngo on June 24, 2014, 11:37:19 AM
Isn't there a highway somewhere that goes through the grounds of a state prison? I remember reading about a roadgeek getting very reluctant permission from a security guard to clinch it at night. I can't read, since Froggie already mentioned it.
Quote from: GaryV on June 23, 2014, 09:06:41 PM
MI: Requires a bicycle or horse
Or your feet! I'm not sure if M-185 counts as "special access required", but since no cars are allowed... maybe.
Well, you have to pay to access M-185 during the summer. There are only three ways to get to Mackinac Island once the ice bridge melts. You're either going to pay one of two private ferry operators (Arnold and Star Line are owned by the same parent company while Shepler's is independent) for passage to the island, pay an airline to do so, or you're paying marina fees at the state harbor. Once you're on Mackinac Island, unless you're going to walk, you'll need a bicycle which you can conveniently rent. The last time I went, I took my own, which cost $10 to do on the ferry.
In the winter, of course, interested parties can take a snowmobile across the ice bridge and then use that to loop around M-185. There is a way to clinch the highway by car, which is to get a special permit to bring one on the island. The last time one was granted was 1996 for the centennial of the ban. The last time before that was in 1978 when
Somewhere in Time was filmed.
Quote from: bulldog1979 on June 24, 2014, 07:29:54 PM
Well, you have to pay to access M-185 during the summer.
the free option seems to be to take a 2.5 mile swim. somewhat effortful (especially given the water temperature), but it can be done.
CA 173 has an unpaved one-lane segment that's been closed to traffic since 2011.
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on June 24, 2014, 07:45:31 PM
CA 173 has an unpaved one-lane segment that's been closed to traffic since 2011.
I believe the closure resulted in a decommissioning several months later.
Quote from: rschen7754 on June 24, 2014, 01:49:41 PM
As far as national parks, a lot of U.S. highways and state highways aren't technically designated through the park. That might not be what cmap has though...
Only Yellowstone doesn't have US Highways, IIRC. Or rather, US routes end at the border of the park
except US191 where it re-enters the park north of West Yellowstone. Oh, and US441 doesn't exist in Great Smoky Mountains NP
The question has been raised a couple of times on cmap and I think, eventually, the situation will be a more accurate representation of the reality there (and you'd be able to clinch all of Yellowstone's main roads).
I double-checked the HLR and a few other things regarding MD 24, and Oscar is correct. The one route into Aberdeen Proving Ground where you may not be able to make a U-turn, going with the strictest definition, would be MD 755, as the terminus is actually at the gate and not at Gate Rd as CHM lists, but with that short of a distance one starts getting into a semantics argument (i.e. whether you're a "purist" or a "close-enough" sort).
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 23, 2014, 09:19:39 PM
Virginia has some secondary routes that are not open to the general public; for example, a few near my house that traverse Fort Belvoir used to be accessible but were closed off by the US Army after 9-11 and have never been reopened. There is also some small areas of secondary routes accessible only through North Carolina.
Some of those roads on the Fort Belvoir post are completely Jersey-walled off (case in point is Va. 618, Woodlawn Road - not clear to me if this was maintained by VDOT or the U.S. Army prior to 2001).
1990's-spec VDOT signal hardware (including control box, signal heads and mast arms) remain (dark and disconnected) at the intersection of Beulah Street and Woodlawn Road (since I was there on official business, it was not appropriate for me to take any pictures).
Quote from: corco on June 23, 2014, 08:47:10 PM
I kind of disagree on Arizona- there are no points where you can't get within about 100 feet of the border and turn around. I-19 ends on city streets that go clean to the border, and SR 189 has a u-turn lane. The others are all regular access roads. US 95 has a u-turn lane, and 85 and 286 are low traffic enough that you can flip a u-turn right at the border. 191 doesn't have a u-turn lane but there is an intersection right at the customs line.
I would count turning around "at" the border if you can get close enough to it to clearly see the place where the road crosses the border from where the turnoff or U-turn point. AZ 189 is my sticking point here - it has a U-turn lane, yes, but the location of the border is around a curve and behind some buildings from it, so you have not laid eyes on the entire road if you use it.
This as far as I am concerned is the only part of the Arizona state highway system which requires entering Mexico to clinch.
QuoteFor purposes of this conversation though, with your strict definition- there's a few states out west (WY, UT, CO) where you have to pay a $25 park entrance fee to clinch the highway system. If that doesn't count, Wyoming is a "none."
A park entrance fee doesn't count as special access since really it's effectively just a toll. The parks are public and open to everyone.
Quote from: oscar on June 23, 2014, 10:02:41 PM
For Hawaii, {...} HI 92 comes to mind -- if you're still on the highway west of Interstate H-1 exit 15, uninterrupted concrete median dividers force you to go through one of two base gates (fortunately, the guards seem nice about turning you around just past the gate, lost tourists happen to them a lot).
It appears (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/21.3464237,-157.9427057/21.3490854,-157.9349164/@21.3470996,-157.9432933,1309m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m4!4m3!1m0!1m0!3e0) that you can make a right turn at Center Drive just before the gate and continue out to HI 99 without needing to clear security. Is this not true?
Quote
MD: I'm pretty sure the state routes ending at or near military bases (such as MD 24, MD 152, and MD 715 to Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD 713 to Ft. Meade, MD 210) end at or before "restricted area" signs before the guard stations, where you can make a U-turn with no signs making that move illegal (traffic permitting, of course -- not a good idea heading toward the guard stations when there's heavy traffic leaving the base).
I am assuming that making a U-turn in the middle of the street across a double yellow line is illegal. Whether it actually is may vary from state to state but I was defintiely taught that it's something you're not supposed to do.
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on June 24, 2014, 06:41:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 24, 2014, 06:35:56 PM
Is Centralia, Penn., still an obstacle to Route 61?
Route 61 technically exists on QR/SR 2002 nearby, chevrons points you in that direction. Consider it permanent really. Even if it says END SR 61 nearby.
If you really want to clinch the "destroyed" section of PA 61 you can do so on foot or using an ATV. I wouldn't say it's entirely necessary (although I have done it). If it is, I suppose you could consider that "special access", although I was thinking more along the lines of "roads which some individuals cannot legally clinch by any means", not "roads which cannot be clinched by car".
Do the prison roads in Arkansas have secret numbers?
Quote from: Duke87 on June 26, 2014, 11:52:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on June 23, 2014, 10:02:41 PM
For Hawaii, {...} HI 92 comes to mind -- if you're still on the highway west of Interstate H-1 exit 15, uninterrupted concrete median dividers force you to go through one of two base gates (fortunately, the guards seem nice about turning you around just past the gate, lost tourists happen to them a lot).
It appears (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/21.3464237,-157.9427057/21.3490854,-157.9349164/@21.3470996,-157.9432933,1309m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m4!4m3!1m0!1m0!3e0) that you can make a right turn at Center Drive just before the gate and continue out to HI 99 without needing to clear security. Is this not true?
Hmm. It wasn't when I last traveled that stretch of HI 92, but the gate and/or Center Drive might've been relocated since then to make that turnback option possible. (The Center Drive intersection isn't shown in the 2012 straight-line diagrams, which have HI 92 ending at the gatehouse without no prior opportunity to exit except at another guarded gate, for the former Hickam AFB.) So I stand corrected.
QuoteI am assuming that making a U-turn in the middle of the street across a double yellow line is illegal. Whether it actually is may vary from state to state but I was defintiely taught that it's something you're not supposed to do.
It is true that it is discouraged, but Maryland state law (http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmStatutesText.aspx?article=gtr§ion=21-402&ext=html&session=2014RS&tab=subject5) only states, regarding U-turns, that drivers making a U-turn must yield right-of-way to those traveling in the opposite direction. Nothing against U-turning across a double yellow line.
Regarding HI 92: that side turn onto Center Dr has existed for over a decade, but from what I recall, HI 92's terminus is actually at the gate (especially eastbound), so if you turn there, you'd still technically miss the end of HI 92.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 26, 2014, 09:34:15 PM
Some of those roads on the Fort Belvoir post are completely Jersey-walled off (case in point is Va. 618, Woodlawn Road - not clear to me if this was maintained by VDOT or the U.S. Army prior to 2001).
County maps suggest that the military may have been maintaining the SRs within the post from the mid 40s to the mid 60s.
SR 618 through Fort Belvoir was in the VDOT traffic count data reports through 2009. While they do differentiate in these reports for maintenance for the primary routes, they do not do so for the secondary ones, which implies that any road with a secondary number is being maintained by the state.
On the other hand, the piece of Prince William SR 611 that clips a corner of Quantico MCB appears to be fully represented in the traffic log and I'm 99% sure there are END STATE MAINTENANCE signs where it enters base property (and part of it is signed as MCB-8).
But here is actual proof that VDOT was maintaining SR 618 and SR 613 through Belvoir...this is the 2007 MOU amongst several parties including VDOT that states outright on Page 2 that VDOT was responsible for maintenance and will be for the extended SR 619 Mulligan Rd project.
http://www.efl.fhwa.dot.gov/files/programs/moa/ft-belvoir-connector-moa.pdf
Mapmikey
I'm pretty sure BS 44 ends at the gate at Fort Leonard Wood. MoDOT might maintain the road (but I doubt it, I'm certain that the military does) and they might have built it, but there are supposedly no BS 44 signs on base.
Quote from: bugo on June 27, 2014, 10:37:16 PM
I'm pretty sure BS 44 ends at the gate at Fort Leonard Wood. MoDOT might maintain the road (but I doubt it, I'm certain that the military does) and they might have built it, but there are supposedly no BS 44 signs on base.
There were definitely no BS 44 signs on base (or indeed anywhere south of its junction with BL 44), when I was there in July 2010.
Quite by coincidence, I've just heard about an "End State Maintenance" sign spotted at the gate. I haven't checked Street View for the exact location of the sign, or whether there is a turnaround opportunity between the sign and the gate (there definitely is one somewhere before the gate, where I pulled off at an office to find out if I needed a visitor pass before driving to the gate).
Just a tip: if you do get caught unable to turn around at a military base gate, it isn't a big deal. It happens more frequently than you'd think. A quick "sorry, made a wrong turn" to the guard will get you turned around and sent the proper way with no fuss. If there are signs for a visitor lane, follow them because they often have an exit/u-turn lane set up for visitors who are denied access.
Sorry for the bump on this old thread, but it seems more appropriate than starting a new one for a simple question.
Quote from: oscar on June 23, 2014, 10:02:41 PM
As for NY, that "U-turn" (really a left turn, followed by another left on the other side of a median parking lot) between the end of I-781 and the Fort Drum guard station appears to be NOT illegal, as previously discussed elsewhere on this forum. There are armed sentries at the gate, none of which lodged any objection when I used that turnaround.
Has anyone done this recently? My upcoming travels will include I-81 through the Watertown area, and I'll definitely take I-781 from I-81 to US 11. I'd like to get a full clinch by going up to this turnaround before the Fort Drum gate, but it's not worth it to me if it's going to cause the base guards or other authorities to get upset.
Quote from: Jim on July 12, 2015, 12:54:06 PM
Sorry for the bump on this old thread, but it seems more appropriate than starting a new one for a simple question.
Quote from: oscar on June 23, 2014, 10:02:41 PM
As for NY, that "U-turn" (really a left turn, followed by another left on the other side of a median parking lot) between the end of I-781 and the Fort Drum guard station appears to be NOT illegal, as previously discussed elsewhere on this forum. There are armed sentries at the gate, none of which lodged any objection when I used that turnaround.
Has anyone done this recently? My upcoming travels will include I-81 through the Watertown area, and I'll definitely take I-781 from I-81 to US 11. I'd like to get a full clinch by going up to this turnaround before the Fort Drum gate, but it's not worth it to me if it's going to cause the base guards or other authorities to get upset.
I did it in 2013. I had just as little trouble doing so as Oscar did. You should be fine.
It really is the same as trying to clinch all of an interstate ending at an international border. From what I heard at Houlton, ME the border patrol has been anal about taking pictures along the last section of I-95 before the NB border.
Or better yet clinching airport terminals now that you need to be a traveling passenger to get beyond security need special access is what some roads have. With Military bases who has business to go there unless your invited there.
This may count: Pennsylvania has a sort of special access example. PA 39 extends into the Hersheypark park limits on Park Boulevard. I think it ends at the Hersheypark park entrance.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 12, 2015, 04:06:28 PM
This may count: Pennsylvania has a sort of special access example. PA 39 extends into the Hersheypark park limits on Park Boulevard. I think it ends at the Hersheypark park entrance.
AFAIK, PA 39 does not extend into Hersheypark. It makes a right turn from Hershey Road onto Hersheypark Drive and continues to the US 322/422 interchange.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 12, 2015, 04:06:28 PM
This may count: Pennsylvania has a sort of special access example. PA 39 extends into the Hersheypark park limits on Park Boulevard. I think it ends at the Hersheypark park entrance.
PA 39 turns onto Hersheypark Drive and heads back toward the west. It ends at US 322. At first, I got confused by the sign that said "East PA 39" while heading SW on the road. Once we found US 422 we were fine, though.
Quote from: Super Mateo on July 12, 2015, 06:27:57 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 12, 2015, 04:06:28 PM
This may count: Pennsylvania has a sort of special access example. PA 39 extends into the Hersheypark park limits on Park Boulevard. I think it ends at the Hersheypark park entrance.
PA 39 turns onto Hersheypark Drive and heads back toward the west. It ends at US 322. At first, I got confused by the sign that said "East PA 39" while heading SW on the road. Once we found US 422 we were fine, though.
Yes that is confusing there. You head sort of west to go east. You would think south of US 22 that it would be signed N-S, but PennDOT does not see it to be that way.
I can definitely say I'm not a purist. The last legal spot for me to turn around clinches the road. Any special access or requirements are not needed for me. This also includes international borders. As long as I get to the last legal spot to turn around, I would count it (most borders have some last gasp U-turn before the border.
Quote from: JimQuote from: oscarAs for NY, that "U-turn" (really a left turn, followed by another left on the other side of a median parking lot) between the end of I-781 and the Fort Drum guard station appears to be NOT illegal, as previously discussed elsewhere on this forum. There are armed sentries at the gate, none of which lodged any objection when I used that turnaround.
Has anyone done this recently? My upcoming travels will include I-81 through the Watertown area, and I'll definitely take I-781 from I-81 to US 11. I'd like to get a full clinch by going up to this turnaround before the Fort Drum gate, but it's not worth it to me if it's going to cause the base guards or other authorities to get upset.
Given how close that turnaround is to the gate, I'd be wary of using the U-turn like that, especially if one is taking pictures or if the security threat level is higher. Oscar and Anthony may have been successful without arousing suspicion, but it's only a matter of time before someone else isn't.
Quote from: roadman65With Military bases who has business to go there unless your invited there.
Some bases have public events now and then where they let the public on with adequate ID. Some bases also give guided tours.
Or if you're riding into the base with someone who is either active duty or retired. Or you ARE the person who's active duty or retired...likely not very many of them on this forum, but they do exist.
For Louisiana, LA 1141 sits on Monkey Island, but the ferry hasn't operated in years.
Quote from: froggie on July 13, 2015, 06:51:44 AM
Given how close that turnaround is to the gate, I'd be wary of using the U-turn like that, especially if one is taking pictures or if the security threat level is higher. Oscar and Anthony may have been successful without arousing suspicion, but it's only a matter of time before someone else isn't.
If you do end up at the gate, just tell the guards that you're lost and made a wrong turn. It happens all the time and they'll just turn you around. Do NOT take pictures anywhere near the gate, even if you turn around before it.
Many bases like Fort Bliss are open to the public with just a drivers license.
Quote from: froggie on July 13, 2015, 06:51:44 AM
Quote from: JimQuote from: oscarAs for NY, that "U-turn" (really a left turn, followed by another left on the other side of a median parking lot) between the end of I-781 and the Fort Drum guard station appears to be NOT illegal, as previously discussed elsewhere on this forum. There are armed sentries at the gate, none of which lodged any objection when I used that turnaround.
Has anyone done this recently? My upcoming travels will include I-81 through the Watertown area, and I'll definitely take I-781 from I-81 to US 11. I'd like to get a full clinch by going up to this turnaround before the Fort Drum gate, but it's not worth it to me if it's going to cause the base guards or other authorities to get upset.
Given how close that turnaround is to the gate, I'd be wary of using the U-turn like that, especially if one is taking pictures or if the security threat level is higher. Oscar and Anthony may have been successful without arousing suspicion, but it's only a matter of time before someone else isn't.
The point of these turnarounds is simply to turn around. People roll up to bases all the time like this accidently. Turning around wouldn't arouse any suspicion. Rolling up to the gate isn't all that unusual either...although don't have anything suspicious within eyesight of the guard.
I think that prematurely making a u turn would arouse more suspicion than going through the guard gates. Just as slowing down in the presence of a cop, arouses suspicion in the officer as he thinks like you have something to hide or are intoxicated, the same principal applies to an MP.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2015, 10:08:56 AM
I think that prematurely making a u turn would arouse more suspicion than going through the guard gates. Just as slowing down in the presence of a cop, arouses suspicion in the officer as he thinks like you have something to hide or are intoxicated, the same principal applies to an MP.
When I was helping at a volunteer event near the South Philly Navy Base one afternoon (doing traffic control...go figure!), it was incredibly frequent that a motorist would be driving down Broad Street, see the gate, realized that's not where they wanted to go, and turned around. Since I was standing there, many of them were in need of directions to get to the highway or the airport.
If you notice in the aerial photos, it's not like there's a chorus of patrol cars there waiting to stop and question people. Thus, not only wouldn't it arouse suspicion, but most secured facilities have a turn around area in front of the gate specifically for this purpose.
Clinching Washington requires entry into Oregon: WA 433 has pavement in Oregon and for practical purposes connects to US 30, even if it is physically limited to the span of the Lewis and Clark Bridge.
WA 409 has a ferry crossing over the Columbia to Westport, Oregon, and since ferries are part of the WA highway system, it terminates at the shore on the Oregon side, with OSM including Westport Ferry Rd to US 30 as part of WA 409...
If British Columbia follows a similar setup, BC 17 would clip the northern corner of Washington's waters during the ferry crossing from Vancouver Island to the mainland.
Quote from: Bickendan on July 15, 2015, 11:44:35 AM
Clinching Washington requires entry into Oregon: WA 433 has pavement in Oregon and for practical purposes connects to US 30, even if it is physically limited to the span of the Lewis and Clark Bridge.
WA 409 has a ferry crossing over the Columbia to Westport, Oregon, and since ferries are part of the WA highway system, it terminates at the shore on the Oregon side, with OSM including Westport Ferry Rd to US 30 as part of WA 409...
If British Columbia follows a similar setup, BC 17 would clip the northern corner of Washington's waters during the ferry crossing from Vancouver Island to the mainland.
WA 409 doesn't include its ferry (which is operated by the county) in the legislative definition or state highway logs. The WSF ferries were added in 1994 (including the now unclinchable WA 339, whose state ferry route was transferred over to the county as a water taxi) and the WA 21 ferry has been there for a while.