The question is... laptop, desktop, or small form factor computer?
Maybe it's because I'm either old-school or a gamer, but I prefer to build assemble my own desktops. Perhaps it's the control of selecting my own components, the easy fixability and upgradability of my computer, or that it looks neat. I build two new computers in the past year. One of them is a extremely high-end and expensive gaming computer, the other a moderate media computer with some recycled components and two BluRay drives. (Do you know how hard it is to find a case with USB 3.0 front panel ports and 5¼" drive bays?)
But, if someone comes up to me and says "Hey, can you build me a computer?", my answer is a hard no. This is partially because I don't have the time, but also because I feel that the modern-day processor with the built-in GPU is more than powerful enough for everyday users such as browsing the web, playing videos, email, and using office applications. I tend to recommend a laptop over even a small form factor computer because of the portability, plus you can still hook up a monitor via HDMI and regular size keyboard and mouse via USB. The big performance factors is just having enough memory (16GB minimum) and enough storage space (at least 500GB SSD or m.2/NVMe). They even sell gaming laptops if you don't mind spending the coin, but I tend to shy away from them due to the short time (3-4 years) before technical obsolescence.
I also don't rule out the small form factor (SFF) computers. I'm tempted to find 2-3 cheap used ones and set them up as Linux computers or test servers... if I don't set up a virtualization box first.
Screwdriver vs hammer vs drill
If your job is to drive long nails in, screwdriver is useless. Screws hammered in usually still hold, though.
Use the correct tool for the job.
For most home computing uses, the small computers are fine.
If you need mobility, or if you lack the space to leave a monitor, keyboard, etc. out "permanently", then you get a laptop.
Desktops/towers are the best choice if you need real performance. Most people don't, but gaming enthusiasts, artists/musicians who produce their works on/with computers, etc. might.
The trouble nowadays seems to be that towers are going away in favor of AIO computers.
For desktops, I prefer to build my own, even not for serious gaming. I get more of a choice of what components I want.
For laptops, I prefer to have one with upgradable RAM and storage.
I've got an aging desktop setup that I'll need to eventually replace to keep playing somewhat modern games and a modern ultralight laptop that I use mainly for writing and consumption. The latter has some limited cooling abilities because of its form factor, so I've had to shy away from using it for anything too insensitive. Gaming laptops have the power but the mouse is enough to deter use.
I'm about to crack open my laptop and quadruple its storage capacity, so fingers crossed. The RAM might be next.
I've always primarily used desktops, I built my current gaming desktop a few years ago. Laptops have their uses, but for me I'm rarely in a situation where I need a laptop instead of using my smartphone. The biggest issue with laptops in my experience is their unreliability. My parents use laptops, and in the past 15 years they have probably owned 8 different laptops, buying a new one whenever the old one quit working. In that same time I've used 3 desktops which have never had any bigger problems than a bad RAM stick.
I don't have much use for small form factor PCs, but if you don't do much more than use the internet, they're a great cheaper option. I'm not sure how reliable they are in the long-term, but even if you had to buy a new one for $200 every year, that's a lot cheaper than buying laptops.
I have a ten+-year-old I5 Lenovo Laptop. It is quite a beast. I still use it a little but it works really well for what it is.
On the other hand, I have an I-9 that was a rocket 4 years ago. I was going to reuse my old case, but the new motherboard was the wrong format. I have a nearly 15 year old 1.5KW power supply in it. I chose storage (4tb HDD) versus speed (500GB ssd). I wish I hadn't.
Quote from: kphoger on September 11, 2023, 10:10:53 AMThe trouble nowadays seems to be that towers are going away in favor of AIO computers.
That's just it. When I was first building PCs in the early 1990s, there were multiple functionalities that required a separate expansion card, whether it be the hard drive controller (we were on IDE back then, although SCSI was also out there), video card, network card, dial-up modem (I preferred external modems over serial port), or sound card. Over time, more and more of the functionality got moved to the motherboard to the point where the only thing you were using the expansion slot for was the video card, and some of the peripherals that required an expansion card moved over to USB. And, along the way, some of the ports including serial, parallel, and PS/2 ports for the keyboard and mouse were obsoleted out.
The GPUs that have been included in the CPUs are, in my opinion, pretty good, especially in comparison with the integrated graphics of 20 years ago
unless you are into gaming. As an example, I have a dedicated computer for just two things: Displaying weather graphics on a 4K television and the conversion of media discs from my physical library to my media server. This was initially done from my former daily driver, a Intel i7-4790K (https://markholtz.info/i7-4790k) built in 2014 and then a AMD 7700X (https://markholtz.info/7700x). Despite the major performance improvement between the two CPUs (at 5-7ⅹ improved conversion based upon handbrake framerate), both were pretty good at displaying the thunderstorm maps. Yet, I have to say that my AMD processor much more than what the "average" non-gamer person needs.
Quote from: bwana39 on September 14, 2023, 09:14:00 PMI chose storage (4tb HDD) versus speed (500GB ssd). I wish I hadn't.
I can understand the need for large amounts of storage. That's why I built a TrueNAS server a few years ago and use it for "slow storage". However, have you seen the price of SSD storage nowadays? According to NewEgg for 2.5" SSDs as of this writing:
500 512 GB - starts at $21- 1 TB - starts at $33
- 2 TB - starts at $61
- 4 TB - starts at $140
- 8 TB - starts at $390
Of course, there is also performance associated with the price, especially with writes, so expect to pay a little more. Having said that, at those prices, you
really[/li][/list] shouldn't be using a HDD as your main system drive anymore especially in terms of performance.
I'm in the IT business for a living, and I rarely build towers anymore, except niche use cases. That being said, my son built his own from recycled parts from decommissioned towers and strategic parts from the nearest MicroCenter, but paid for them all with his chore money and built it himself under my supervision. Because all teenage boys want to do with computers at home anyway is gaming. Makes it harder to travel with, though.
Most current laptops have powerful enough processing if they're core i5 or the equivalent AMD APU for light gaming as well as pretty much any other use case. I steer pretty much everyone to laptops/convertible tablets unless they have a specific need for something else. Even gaming can be done on a laptop with higher end refresh rates/resolution on external monitors using the Thunderbolt3/4 port and an EGPU dock with a desktop GPU installed with the external monitor connected to that. Gives you the best of both worlds, although you do leave a little performance on the table over having the GPU on the PCI bus directly like a desktop allows for.
I like towers because if something breaks it's easy to open up the case and replace the broken part. Even when the motherboard was obsolete, you could usually keep the case and power supply. My needs were usually pretty modest and I could buy a 4-year-old Dell from the university surplus store, max out the memory on the motherboard, put in a new hard drive, install FreeBSD or Linux, and be good to go.
Quote from: MikieTimT on September 16, 2023, 12:46:29 PMThat being said, my son built his own from recycled parts from decommissioned towers and strategic parts from the nearest MicroCenter, but paid for them all with his chore money and built it himself under my supervision. Because all teenage boys want to do with computers at home anyway is gaming. Makes it harder to travel with, though.
Good for him. Hopefully, he has also picked up the knack for troubleshooting those computers as well.
Quote from: kkt on September 16, 2023, 04:06:59 PMEven when the motherboard was obsolete, you could usually keep the case and power supply. My needs were usually pretty modest and I could buy a 4-year-old Dell from the university surplus store, max out the memory on the motherboard, put in a new hard drive, install FreeBSD or Linux, and be good to go.
YES... this. Although it has been several years ago, I had repurposed an old 64-bit windows computer into a 64-bit Linux Web server running ISPConfig (https://markholtz.info/ispconfig). One project that I wanted to try (were it not be for the lack of time) is assembling a virtualization platform.
one thing becoming non-trivial:
these older machines - especially for small side projects - consume more power than comparable modern devices.
Using that old box may be attractive until you realize that it may consume 20-50 cents worth of power a day. And your savings are all gone in a year or so...
So get a new power supply?
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 16, 2023, 07:30:50 PM
So get a new power supply?
Full size CPUs have 60-100 w max power for quite a while. Raspberry pi4 has 15W maximum power.
It is not that simple, of course; but non-gui non-video tasks on old pc may cost more in power than new hardware. Ispconfig may possibly be an example of that
One thing to keep in mind for a laptop: power jacks can break after a lot of abuse. Getting a model that has both a barrel/proprietary plug AND USB-C/Thunderbolt 3+ is a smart idea. A little redundancy never hurts.
In my opinion, laptops and desktops fulfill two different market segments: Desktops exist for power, ease of maintenance, and in situations where you don't move often and can set up like three monitors at the same time. Laptops exist so you can pick them up and carry them around, good for business and school.
Most of my personal work is on the gaming desktop I'm writing this on, with my triple-monitor setup I find useful for music composition work. Most of my school work is on a laptop, which is good for bringing to labs, work, lounges for studying, what have you.
The issues come with all-in-ones, SFF machines, and gaming laptops.
- All-in-ones are a laptop in a different case: just as difficult to service with proprietary components, and you can't replace the monitor individually. They are literally a laptop without a keyboard and with less portability, and often, the same amount of power.
- Small form factor machines are a laptop without a screen, still hard to service, but at least you can replace the monitor or mount it to the back of a television.
- Gaming laptops are heavy, and often too hot to put on your lap. You have to put the thing on a table, just buy a desktop.
Honestly, if you can get away with an all-in-one or an SFF, you are facing most of the disadvantages of a laptop without portability... so just buy a laptop! If you really want a separate monitor, buy an entry level tower.
Quote from: kkt on September 16, 2023, 04:06:59 PM
I like towers because if something breaks it's easy to open up the case and replace the broken part. Even when the motherboard was obsolete, you could usually keep the case and power supply. My needs were usually pretty modest and I could buy a 4-year-old Dell from the university surplus store, max out the memory on the motherboard, put in a new hard drive, install FreeBSD or Linux, and be good to go.
GAWD I love our local college surpus store. There's just rows of those generic Dell whatevers, not the latest and greatest, but they're fine for spinning drives ... which can also be purchased dirt-cheap here.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on September 17, 2023, 08:05:45 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 16, 2023, 04:06:59 PM
I like towers because if something breaks it's easy to open up the case and replace the broken part. Even when the motherboard was obsolete, you could usually keep the case and power supply. My needs were usually pretty modest and I could buy a 4-year-old Dell from the university surplus store, max out the memory on the motherboard, put in a new hard drive, install FreeBSD or Linux, and be good to go.
GAWD I love our local college surpus store. There's just rows of those generic Dell whatevers, not the latest and greatest, but they're fine for spinning drives ... which can also be purchased dirt-cheap here.
I had a hard drive die and be unrecoverable once... I got religion after that as far as backups and buying new drives and not continuing to use them very long after their warranties were up.
https://simplynuc.com/moonstone/
I have this one as my desktop computer. I just attach it to a TV and ready to go from there.
Quote from: kkt on September 17, 2023, 01:17:15 PMI had a hard drive die and be unrecoverable once... I got religion after that as far as backups and buying new drives and not continuing to use them very long after their warranties were up.
Over the years I have had five disk failures, two of which resulted in significant data loss, and have learned the hard way to
reject out of hand any data preservation strategy that relies on recovery or reconstruction of data in the event of a disk crash. Even a near-100% recovery imposes significant time and effort costs in approximating the pre-crash state since the recovered material typically requires quality control and reinsertion into the original folder structure.
Recovery software often leaves two copies of each file, one in the original folder and the other in a single directory. Either or both may be corrupt since recovery will not necessarily collect all of the fragments for a given file. Not all file formats have a structure that allows validation, which is costly in any case. (I use wrapper scripts that rely on Ghostscript for PDF, 7z for compressed archive formats, pngcheck for PNGs, and ImageMagick identify for GIFs and JPEGs, but I have never heard of a robust validation strategy for plain text or CAD files.)
The attributed causes of the five disk failures were as follows:
* Loss of the FAT on the internal HD in a desktop PC, probably due to a memory error, shortly after a memory upgrade. (I thought I had secured 100% compatibility with the memory already installed, but was later advised this was probably not the case. I removed the added memory and have never again attempted a memory upgrade. With the help of a housemate who had worked as a sysadmin, I was able to recover most of my data, but still lost a significant amount.)
* Accidentally selecting format on an external HD. (I lost no data, but it took considerable time to copy over the lost data from optical discs.)
* Drive or USB interface problem involving an internal HD and a box allowing it to be used as a "cheap" external HD. (I RMA'd the drive and box to get rid of them, and never again tried to economize in this manner.)
* Transient memory error leading to loss of the FAT on an external disk, originally intended for backup only, which came to hold significant amounts of spillover unarchived data. (I used Seagate's paid recovery tool and estimate I got back at least 90% of the unarchived material, but it took a considerable effort over months to winnow out the corrupt files. The drive itself was and is mechanically healthy, and remains in service 12 years later. I later put a larger dedicated backup drive into service.)
* USB interface or controller problem preventing an external drive from mounting at all. (The disk was for backup only, so I simply decommissioned it and rebuilt the backups on a replacement.)
Quote from: ZLoth on September 16, 2023, 11:26:44 AMThe GPUs that have been included in the CPUs are, in my opinion, pretty good, especially in comparison with the integrated graphics of 20 years ago unless you are into gaming. As an example, I have a dedicated computer for just two things: Displaying weather graphics on a 4K television and the conversion of media discs from my physical library to my media server. This was initially done from my former daily driver, a Intel i7-4790K (https://markholtz.info/i7-4790k) built in 2014 and then a AMD 7700X (https://markholtz.info/7700x). Despite the major performance improvement between the two CPUs (at 5-7ⅹ improved conversion based upon handbrake framerate), both were pretty good at displaying the thunderstorm maps. Yet, I have to say that my AMD processor much more than what the "average" non-gamer person needs.
I really push back against this idea that Core i5 with integrated graphics is enough "unless you game." We tried this when we were shopping for a new PC for my mother, who was even less likely to game than I am, and she was unhappy with it within six months since she could tell (even while browsing the Web, writing emails, processing words, etc.) that its responsiveness was subpar.
Laptops are a pretty natural choice if you have to alternate between in-office and mobile use. Modern laptops can use the USB-C jack to connect to a dock and receive charging, and generally have enough beef to drive two monitors or one 4K display. The challenge is that they are still the most expensive option, and you have to specifically seek out one that you can easily replace RAM, the SSD, and the battery. Otherwise you end up with a device that is basically unserviceable. They also still struggle to stay cool under heavy workloads.
SFF desktop PCs, depending on the specific design, can either be pretty straightforward to service, or a nightmare. They are by far the simplest to set up - grab a keyboard and mouse, connect to a TV or other suitable display, and you're done. Perfect for streaming media to a TV, or as a small, unobtrusive day-to-day PC. Put a heavy load on them, and they can suffer from overheating like a laptop can.
I draw a distinction between an OEM desktop PC (Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc) and a standard desktop PC. Despite having a similar standard desktop form factor, the OEMs are fond of using proprietary components that make them hard to upgrade. If you want a desktop PC for power and flexibility, build your own or source from a "white box" manufacturer that uses standard components.
Standard desktop PCs allow you the most flexibility to build and upgrade to your heart's content. Much like building a hot rod car, your budget and your creativity are your only limits. You can start cheap and cheerful and upgrade later, or you can drop tons of money on a PC that will play any game in 4K without a hiccup. It definitely can be an intimidating process, however, and mistakes can be expensive.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 17, 2023, 02:33:27 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on September 16, 2023, 11:26:44 AMThe GPUs that have been included in the CPUs are, in my opinion, pretty good, especially in comparison with the integrated graphics of 20 years ago unless you are into gaming. As an example, I have a dedicated computer for just two things: Displaying weather graphics on a 4K television and the conversion of media discs from my physical library to my media server. This was initially done from my former daily driver, a Intel i7-4790K (https://markholtz.info/i7-4790k) built in 2014 and then a AMD 7700X (https://markholtz.info/7700x). Despite the major performance improvement between the two CPUs (at 5-7ⅹ improved conversion based upon handbrake framerate), both were pretty good at displaying the thunderstorm maps. Yet, I have to say that my AMD processor much more than what the "average" non-gamer person needs.
I really push back against this idea that Core i5 with integrated graphics is enough "unless you game." We tried this when we were shopping for a new PC for my mother, who was even less likely to game than I am, and she was unhappy with it within six months since she could tell (even while browsing the Web, writing emails, processing words, etc.) that its responsiveness was subpar.
I'm going to guess that some other component was subpar (SATA instead of NVMe solid-state drive, insufficient RAM, shaky network, etc). Or perhaps it was an earlier-generation i5? Or like me she's fond of keeping lots of windows open simultaneously? I generally load up on the RAM when I spec out a PC because it's cheap insurance against laggy performance.
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 17, 2023, 03:33:27 PMI'm going to guess that some other component was subpar (SATA instead of NVMe solid-state drive, insufficient RAM, shaky network, etc). Or perhaps it was an earlier-generation i5? Or like me she's fond of keeping lots of windows open simultaneously? I generally load up on the RAM when I spec out a PC because it's cheap insurance against laggy performance.
It was a HP tower PC with 1920 x 1080 monitor back in 2013, so there was definitely a mechanical HD and an older-generation i5 in play. I recommended the purchase based on a benchmark comparison between its CPU and the CPU in my 2011 gaming laptop, which remained very responsive right up to its replacement in 2021 (the hard drive was starting to die). In retrospect, I think I failed to account for the integrated graphics on the i5. (The gaming laptop had an i7 with a discrete GPU.)
How does one know if a hard drive is about to die? Slow performance can be caused by any number of variables.
Quote from: Rothman on September 17, 2023, 04:40:45 PMHow does one know if a hard drive is about to die? Slow performance can be caused by any number of variables.
The drive was doing just fine in terms of read/write speed. However, the computer was BSODing frequently with bugchecks that I could never trace to a specific driver and that are often signs of impending hard disk failure.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 17, 2023, 04:51:00 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 17, 2023, 04:40:45 PMHow does one know if a hard drive is about to die? Slow performance can be caused by any number of variables.
The drive was doing just fine in terms of read/write speed. However, the computer was BSODing frequently with bugchecks that I could never trace to a specific driver and that are often signs of impending hard disk failure.
Yikes.
Quote from: Rothman on September 17, 2023, 04:40:45 PM
How does one know if a hard drive is about to die? Slow performance can be caused by any number of variables.
I had a drive once that would make a loud clacking noise whenever I accessed certain disk sectors. I believe it was formatted ext4, though, so it didn't have any problems so long as I wasn't using the bad sectors. They contained my Firefox preferences, so every time I started Firefox I got the default settings like it was a fresh install, but other than that no unusual software behavior at all. (Had I been on Windows I'm guessing it would have brought down the whole Registry and toasted the system.)
Quote from: Rothman on September 17, 2023, 04:40:45 PM
How does one know if a hard drive is about to die? Slow performance can be caused by any number of variables.
Drives have some build in diagnostics which sits out a lot of parameters. It's called SMART.
If you're lucky, you may see something going on 8n those parameters
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 17, 2023, 02:33:27 PM
Quote from: kkt on September 17, 2023, 01:17:15 PMI had a hard drive die and be unrecoverable once... I got religion after that as far as backups and buying new drives and not continuing to use them very long after their warranties were up.
Over the years I have had five disk failures, two of which resulted in significant data loss, and have learned the hard way to reject out of hand any data preservation strategy that relies on recovery or reconstruction of data in the event of a disk crash. Even a near-100% recovery imposes significant time and effort costs in approximating the pre-crash state since the recovered material typically requires quality control and reinsertion into the original folder structure.
From my experience, backups are
essential if you have a SSD drive. That's primarily why I built a TrueNAS server which is configured with eight drives in a RAIDZ2 configuration, and those backups are then made in the cloud.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 17, 2023, 02:33:27 PMQuote from: ZLoth on September 16, 2023, 11:26:44 AMThe GPUs that have been included in the CPUs are, in my opinion, pretty good, especially in comparison with the integrated graphics of 20 years ago unless you are into gaming. As an example, I have a dedicated computer for just two things: Displaying weather graphics on a 4K television and the conversion of media discs from my physical library to my media server. This was initially done from my former daily driver, a Intel i7-4790K (https://markholtz.info/i7-4790k) built in 2014 and then a AMD 7700X (https://markholtz.info/7700x). Despite the major performance improvement between the two CPUs (at 5-7ⅹ improved conversion based upon handbrake framerate), both were pretty good at displaying the thunderstorm maps. Yet, I have to say that my AMD processor much more than what the "average" non-gamer person needs.
I really push back against this idea that Core i5 with integrated graphics is enough "unless you game." We tried this when we were shopping for a new PC for my mother, who was even less likely to game than I am, and she was unhappy with it within six months since she could tell (even while browsing the Web, writing emails, processing words, etc.) that its responsiveness was subpar.
How many years ago was that? I'm told that the i5s have improved, but I can't speak from experience. All I said was...
Quote from: ZLoth on September 11, 2023, 06:13:32 AMI feel that the modern-day processor with the built-in GPU is more than powerful enough for everyday users such as browsing the web, playing videos, email, and using office applications.
While I feel that a i9 or the AMD equivalent is overpowered for most people, it's different for the i7 or the AMD equivalent. Again, I'm just looking at "regular" end users, not power users.
Quote from: Rothman on September 17, 2023, 04:40:45 PM
How does one know if a hard drive is about to die? Slow performance can be caused by any number of variables.
HDDs will often become very noisy or start making clicking sounds before they fail. I'm not sure about SSDs since they don't have moving components.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on September 17, 2023, 08:00:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 17, 2023, 04:40:45 PM
How does one know if a hard drive is about to die? Slow performance can be caused by any number of variables.
HDDs will often become very noisy or start making clicking sounds before they fail. I'm not sure about SSDs since they don't have moving components.
You can use a utility such as CrystalDiskInfo (https://markholtz.info/crystaldiskinfo) to pull the SMART info. Here is an example screenshot from one of my older drives:
(https://i.ibb.co/QbnD2Cn/Disk-Info64-2023-09-17-22-55-59.png)
51,077 hours is about 2,128 days, or around 5 year 303 day 5 hours (assuming a year is 8,760 hours).
From PCWorld:
I switched my $1,000 desktop to a $300 mini PC and regret nothingQuoteEarlier this year, I impulse-bought a tiny, inexpensive desktop PC for research purposes. I didn't expect it to change my entire computing setup.
But here I am now, using the $300 Beelink SER5 Mini PC as my daily workhorse, powering an ultrawide 1440p 100Hz monitor and smoothly handling any productivity task I've thrown at it. This little computer has been so delightful to use that I've relegated my full-sized desktop tower PC to the basement television, where it's now serving exclusively as a gaming rig.
Consider this a lesson on technological overkill. Outside of some specialized use cases, the required compute power for getting things done might be a lot less than you think.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (https://markholtz.info/2sh)
This may be the type of computer that I would give to my non-computer savvy mother or hook up to my television as a home theater PC that can also display weather maps. It certainly would not be my main computer.
If by "Small Form Factor" you mean "Small Phone Factor," you are coming correct. I use my phone as a hotspot for my devices at home and it works great.
Each has its place, although I think people tend to get the wrong tool for the job fairly frequently.
True Desktop: Wins in every category except portability. Easy to service/replace components, optimal cooling, space for optical drives and other accessories, expandable, etc. If portability is not a factor the answer is simply desktop.
Small Form Factor: Kind of a niche device frankly. Makes some sense in institutions like schools, or for use as a secondary computer for servers etc. (mainly because they are so plentiful thanks to institutions). A sub-optimal choice for desktop use in every respect except portability. I did use one as my primary computer for a period where I was moving twice a year and had to fit everything in a compact sedan.
Laptop: Inferior in every respect except portability. Should only be used to go places. No, docks don't really fix this, they just improve it somewhat. Only used a laptop as a primary computer when I lived overseas and flying equipment was not feasible.
The way most people end up with a laptop is by needing portability at least occasionally and only being willing to have one computer. That dictates a laptop.
My approach has been to move to a desktop for 95% of my work and all the heavy lifting tasks, and an UMPC for exceptional portability when I need it. This gives far more power and capability overall and more portability when I need portability. The UMPC is so small it can go in other luggage rather than a dedicated laptop bag or pack.
Some will say that most people don't need desktop power, I tend to agree. Unfortunately most of the population past school age could just use a phone as a computer as they are really only consuming information and doing online activities, most of which are mobile phone oriented anyway.
As an update, I'm in process of replacing my mother's 10yo laptop with the MSI Cubi 5 12M-029US Intel Core i5 Mini PC (https://markholtz.info/cubi5) which I ordered for $469+$10 shipping+$40 Texas Sales Tax off Amazon (https://amzn.to/3SevTVJ). (The price has gone up slightly). This is an incredibly tiny computer for those of us who grew with big-cased computers, but those computers also held a 3½" hard drive, a 5¼" CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drive, and perhaps a gaming video card. My mother needs none of those, and in fact, it has a VESA mounting bracket for attaching to the back of a monitor. The i5-1235U (processor released 23 February 2022) appears to be a significant performance improvement over my mother's i5-4200M (processor released 4 June 2013) laptop. This tiny computer has two USB-3 ports and a USB-C port in the front, two USB-C ports, a DisplayPort and HDMI port for the monitor, and two ethernet (one 1GB, one 2.5GB) ports in the back. Power is supplied by a separate power brick, and Wi-Fi and Bluetooth are included as well as a installed copy of Windows 11 Home.
If anything, the biggest gripe is that it comes with a single 8GB DDR-4 3200Mhz SO-DIMM chip which I feel is totally inadequate for Windows 11 (16 GB is minimum in my opinion). Additional memory was ordered, and it was super easy to crack open the case, swap out the laptop memory, and screw it back together again. The computer also comes installed with a 512GB Samsung MZVL4512HBLU-00BTW M.2 Drive which should be more than adequate for my mother's needs. In the future, this should also be a pretty good Linux box.
Good thing you can put in more memory as it ages! That's been my main concern with tiny computers.
Quote from: kkt on January 29, 2024, 01:15:31 AMGood thing you can put in more memory as it ages! That's been my main concern with tiny computers.
More functionality=more code=more memory consumed. In the early 2000s, I remember when it was good if your Windows XP machine had 512MB of memory, and 4GB limitation of 32-bit systems were "unobtainable" due to the cost. Nowadays, I'm looking at the memory kits for DDR4-3200 SO-DIMMs from one manufacturer as follows (as of this writing):
- 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) - $33 (https://amzn.to/3HBvFTD)
- 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) - $57 (https://amzn.to/48Ib3Ff)
- 64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) - $105 (https://amzn.to/3SfJxb9)
Even a 8GB module is just $19 (https://amzn.to/4bcQsdP). I ended up maxing out the memory on this computer to 64GB even though the only justifications were "because I can" and "the price was right", not because of any real-world need. I don't think DDR4 memory is even going away in the near future as there are too many machines out there using DDR4 including some new builds even though DDR5 has been out for two years. Heck, you can still readily find DDR3 memory.
For me, a laptop is the best option for now. I don't play games and so on, and I don't see any point in getting a desktop.
I work online, so a laptop provides everything I need.
Maybe one day, when I get a bigger flat, I'll probably build my own computer, but there is no need for it now. I have a Mac, and it's the perfect option for work and for personal use. There is a lot of information online that provides tips and tricks and other useful info that helps to maximize productivity or provide some info about things I didn't know before. From one article on Setapp (https://setapp.com/how-to/share-wifi-from-mac) I found out how to share the Wifi from the laptop to other devices, and knowing such info is very useful. There are some more articles about different things, and with each update, there are more and more cool features.
I have too many computers. 2 towers, 2 laptops. One tower is a self-built windows machine that was rebuilt once. The other is a brand model, 12 years old and now holding a linux distro. The laptops hold a windows spinal tap and a linux distro.
My first computer had 48 kb. Yes, kilobytes, not megabytes...
Quote from: kkt on March 27, 2024, 01:54:36 PMMy first computer had 48 kb. Yes, kilobytes, not megabytes...
I lucked out with 64 kb of RAM with my first.
It was quite a bit more usable after I upgraded with that extra 16k.
Quote from: kkt on March 27, 2024, 01:54:36 PMMy first computer had 48 kb. Yes, kilobytes, not megabytes...
I'm guessing it was bigger than my 500GB Acer Aspire 5.
Quote from: kkt on March 27, 2024, 01:54:36 PMMy first computer had 48 kb. Yes, kilobytes, not megabytes...
Youngster...
My first computer, a TRS-80 Model III, came with 16kb of memory. If you wanted to expand it, it was $99 ($337 in today's dollars) for each 16kb for another 16kb of memory. If you wanted to store a program on cassette, the transfer speed was either 500 or 1500 baud. Even floppies were expensive, and don't even think about a external hard drive.
Quote from: kkt on March 27, 2024, 01:54:36 PMMy first computer had 48 kb. Yes, kilobytes, not megabytes...
As did mine (an Apple II+). And it was the "high end" version; you could also get it with 16k or 32k. And the "storage device" was cassette tape using a consumer-grade cassette tape recorder. A 140K 5.25" floppy drive was $600 back then (1981).
The experience improved once I saved enough to buy the floppy drive and bump my memory from 48k to 64k.
To answer the original question, my main computer is a desktop with 24 GB memory and a 27" 5K monitor (my eyes ain't what they used to be). I do have a laptop for travel (and road clinching trips). But I prefer the desktop.
Quote from: epzik8 on March 27, 2024, 03:56:38 PMQuote from: kkt on March 27, 2024, 01:54:36 PMMy first computer had 48 kb. Yes, kilobytes, not megabytes...
I'm guessing it was bigger than my 500GB Acer Aspire 5.
Well, I haven't actually seen an Acer Aspire 5, but I would guess so too. It was about the same size as today's full towers, except laid down flat.
Quote from: kkt on March 27, 2024, 01:54:36 PMMy first computer had 48 kb. Yes, kilobytes, not megabytes...
Me, mine was an Atari 800, with a cassette drive. That's right a tape drive to store my programs. Imagine typing cload 3 times to get to the program you want.
Quote from: dlsterner on March 27, 2024, 05:51:04 PMTo answer the original question, my main computer is a desktop with 24 GB memory and a 27" 5K monitor (my eyes ain't what they used to be). I do have a laptop for travel (and road clinching trips). But I prefer the desktop.
My current desktop has 64GB of memory and a 27" 2K GSync monitor. And, even though I have a work laptop, it is hooked up to a docking station so that I can use a regular keyboard, monitor, and mouse. Oh, an a Elgato Stream Deck MK.2 (https://amzn.to/3vzaLSP) to make launching apps easier.
Currently I use my laptop on my desk, with an external large monitor and USB keyboard, mouse, hard drives, and scanner. The laptop is borderline obsolete with only 16 GB of RAM. But it works okay except for certain applications that consider memory to be free like air and they can use as much as they want and never bother to free it.