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Author Topic: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel  (Read 37272 times)

Beltway

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2017, 10:25:15 PM »

Just a reminder...
Baltimore Sun: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel restaurant, gift shop and pier set to close

I wonder if there is any feasible and affordable engineering solution to build a new restaurant and ample parking somewhere on that island?
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2017, 11:34:18 AM »

I'm in hopes that CBBT swag will be available somewhere, either online or in a physical shop located elsewhere. Last time I was on the CBBT, I bought a sticker but haven't put it on my vehicle yet. I'd like to be able to maybe get another sometime.
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2017, 02:07:41 PM »

I picked up a t-shirt when I stopped by coming back from a work trip to Accomack County. That gift shop is a really nice place, I'm sad to see it go.
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2017, 02:13:17 PM »

Just a reminder...
Baltimore Sun: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel restaurant, gift shop and pier set to close

I wonder if there is any feasible and affordable engineering solution to build a new restaurant and ample parking somewhere on that island?

It took a lot of design and engineering just to fit the 2nd tunnel on the island.  If they tried to refit the restaurant on there it'll probably be the world's most costly restaurant design!!
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Beltway

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2017, 02:51:39 PM »

I wonder if there is any feasible and affordable engineering solution to build a new restaurant and ample parking somewhere on that island?
It took a lot of design and engineering just to fit the 2nd tunnel on the island.  If they tried to refit the restaurant on there it'll probably be the world's most costly restaurant design!!

I agree.  Initially they were going to expand both islands to accommodate the about 250 foot spacing between the two bridges.  That would be needed for the immersed tube construction method  which would require that much separation in order to dredge the trench for the new tube without impacting the existing tube.

By using the shield-bored tunnel method (first time in the H.R. area) they can get much closer to the existing tube and thereby place its portals on the existing islands.  Plus save about $200 million.

Building those 4 islands on what is essentially open sea was considered one of the most remarkable portions of the project, also very expensive.  The same challenges would occur on expanding an island, massive amounts of suitable soil fill material needs to be obtained from somewhere, barged out there, and then placed layer by layer and properly compacted, and massive amounts of armor stone needs to be barged out there and placed around the island.

They must have built the islands very well, as I have never heard of them being damaged in any storm, other than perhaps some cosmetic damage, and they have been there for 53 years.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 02:59:34 PM by Beltway »
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Beltway

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2017, 12:26:06 AM »

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/transportation/chesapeake-bay-bridge-tunnel-pier-and-restaurant-closing-oct/article_59064e92-73cd-5c16-93e6-1f82453c373f.html

Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel pier and restaurant closing Oct. 1
By Jordan Pascale
The Virginian-Pilot
Sep 7, 2017

Quote
In less than a month, crews will dig a big hole in an island in the Chesapeake Bay.  A groundbreaking is set for 11:30 a.m. on Sept. 18.

Months later, a giant boring machine will be lowered into that hole to dig another mile-long tunnel to complement the one under the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel's Thimble Shoal channel.

It will be the first tunnel in the region to be built using the boring method.  The machine’s 41-foot rotating head cuts into the soil, carves it out and hauls it away on a conveyor belt before it’s transferred to trucks.

Precast concrete-tunnel segments are loaded into the machine and pushed into place. Once one ring of concrete is finished, the machine pushes forward, excavates more soil and adds another ring.

When it reaches the other side, the machine will be disassembled and removed. Then crews install the roadway, lighting and mechanical systems.

The 8,800 drivers that use the bridge-tunnel complex daily likely won't be inconvenienced. Most of the work will be outside the current right of way. The tunnel stretches from Virginia Beach to the Eastern Shore.

Perhaps the most obvious changes tourists, fishermen  and drivers would  notice is the closure of the island nearest Virginia Beach. The island is home to a fishing pier, restaurant and gift shop. The pier will return in 2022, but the restaurant and gift shop won't due to space constraints on the island. Expanding it would've cost more than $200 million.

At $756 million, the project is among the largest in the region since the $2.1 billion project that built a new Midtown Tunnel, refurbished the old Midtown and Downtown tunnels and built the  Martin Luther King Jr. Expressway [Extension] in Portsmouth.

While the route is not the most-heavily traveled in the region – some residents question why this tunnel is being built ahead of more pressing needs – the bay bridge-tunnel  is in a unique situation.

The  Tunnel District is a political subdivision of the state and operates as a business entity. The district doesn’t use federal, state or local taxes to operate or maintain the bridge, but it is tax-exempt.

Because it runs as a business, the commission aims to reduce risk factors. A catastrophic event in either tunnel could render the route useless. Adding a second tunnel would  increase safety by making traffic flow one way in each.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 12:29:00 AM by Beltway »
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2019, 02:11:17 AM »

I found a video of the bridge from 1987:

And because it's from 1987, it's clearly in VHS quality. Which is too bad, because I still want to see evidence of those speed limit traffic signals the bridge used to have on it in the early-1980's.

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2019, 04:30:24 PM »

Those stubs on the crossovers aren’t going away, are they? ERR, that makes me mad.
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2019, 09:57:08 PM »

I am guessing that the Chesapeake Channel Tunnel is not part of the project as I cannot find anything to support it. 

However, I like the boring method over the covered trench method better. 

Also I seen on CBBT website there is a gift shop at the Eastern Shore Plaza where souveneirs can still be bought for travelers due to the loss of the gift shop.  Also the fishing pier will be rebuilt once the second tube opens.
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2019, 11:27:57 PM »

I am guessing that the Chesapeake Channel Tunnel is not part of the project as I cannot find anything to support it. 

The Parallel Thimble Shoal Tunnel Project does not include the Chesapeake Channel Tunnel expansion.  That will be somewhere in the future and the CCBTD has not announced any schedule for that project or even whether it will necessarily be a tunnel.
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sprjus4

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2019, 09:10:16 PM »

I am guessing that the Chesapeake Channel Tunnel is not part of the project as I cannot find anything to support it. 

The Parallel Thimble Shoal Tunnel Project does not include the Chesapeake Channel Tunnel expansion.  That will be somewhere in the future and the CCBTD has not announced any schedule for that project or even whether it will necessarily be a tunnel.
Nothing recent regarding that expansion, though a presentation given to HRTPO back in 2014 indicated that project "Parallel Crossing Phase II-B (Parallel Chesapeake Channel Tunnel)" would occur in 2030 or 2040.

Parallel Crossing Phase I was completed in July 1999 and involved constructing the parallel bridge structures. The current Thimble Shoal Tunnel project is Parallel Crossing Phase II-A, and the later Chesapeake Channel Tunnel project would be Parallel Crossing Phase II-B.
http://www.cbbt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HRTPO-Project-Overviewrevised614.pdf
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2019, 09:21:56 PM »

^^^
More updated information, a brochure advertising the Chesapeake Bay-Bridge Tunnel released in December 2018 notes on Page 2 under "Historical Timeline" that "Tunneling Forward with Phase III, Parallel Chesapeake Channel Tunnel" will occur in 2035 - 2045.

http://www.cbbt.com/Print/mobile/index.html#p=3
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Beltway

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #62 on: April 18, 2019, 10:00:24 PM »

So they are planning Chesapeake Channel as a tunnel and not a bridge which I thought might be in the alternatives analysis.  No longer a major Navy channel.

Hopefully they will find the needed funding long before 2035. 

But very welcome that they are now building Thimble Shoals.  Any word on whether this project includes a full rebab of the existing tunnel?
 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 10:03:24 PM by Beltway »
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sprjus4

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2019, 12:29:57 AM »

So they are planning Chesapeake Channel as a tunnel and not a bridge which I thought might be in the alternatives analysis.  No longer a major Navy channel.

Hopefully they will find the needed funding long before 2035. 

But very welcome that they are now building Thimble Shoals.  Any word on whether this project includes a full rebab of the existing tunnel?
From everything I've seen, no word on rehabilitation of the current tunnel. It seems all the focus is on simply getting the new tunnel built.

I did notice an interesting design feature of the new tunnel. It wouldn't expand the existing islands, but rather shrink to a narrow footprint to retain the existing, then widen back out, then shrink again at the other island, then expand back out to the current bridges. This was done supposedly to reduce environmental impact from having to expand the island. It retains the current pier, which is to be renovated, but demolished the restaurant.

Here were some other proposals in the past which would have widened the island, and retained or constructed a new welcome center / restaurant. Notice the newer they are, the smaller footprint they have.

2015 proposal -


2016 proposal -


Current design -



« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 12:46:29 AM by sprjus4 »
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Beltway

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2019, 12:57:57 AM »

I did notice an interesting design feature of the new tunnel. It wouldn't expand the existing islands, but rather shrink to a narrow footprint to retain the existing, then widen back out, then shrink again at the other island, then expand back out to the current bridges. This was done supposedly to reduce environmental impact from having to expand the island.

Mainly to save over $200 million in construction costs to expand the manmade islands.  Very expensive construction.
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sprjus4

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2019, 01:08:00 AM »

I did notice an interesting design feature of the new tunnel. It wouldn't expand the existing islands, but rather shrink to a narrow footprint to retain the existing, then widen back out, then shrink again at the other island, then expand back out to the current bridges. This was done supposedly to reduce environmental impact from having to expand the island.

Mainly to save over $200 million in construction costs to expand the manmade islands.  Very expensive construction.
Ah, that makes sense. Was there any previous cost estimates on having an island expansion?
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2019, 05:56:30 AM »

I did notice an interesting design feature of the new tunnel. It wouldn't expand the existing islands, but rather shrink to a narrow footprint to retain the existing, then widen back out, then shrink again at the other island, then expand back out to the current bridges. This was done supposedly to reduce environmental impact from having to expand the island.

Mainly to save over $200 million in construction costs to expand the manmade islands.  Very expensive construction.
Ah, that makes sense. Was there any previous cost estimates on having an island expansion?

Well, yeah. That's how they know they'll save $200 million.
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Beltway

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2019, 06:26:31 AM »

Mainly to save over $200 million in construction costs to expand the manmade islands.  Very expensive construction.
Ah, that makes sense. Was there any previous cost estimates on having an island expansion?
Well, yeah. That's how they know they'll save $200 million.

Yeah, the 2015 proposal he showed above would have connected to the ends of the parallel trestles on a seemless straight alignment and would have required widening the manmade islands about 200 feet to the west.

That was the future plan when they built the parallel trestles in the late 1990s.
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2019, 10:29:24 PM »

They saved on construction costs as well as having to dredge and dump sand to make the islands bigger. 

Too bad they cannot do that to the HRBT when they add the two new tunnels.  From what I gather is that four new islands will be made to make the approaches.
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2019, 10:40:36 PM »

They saved on construction costs as well as having to dredge and dump sand to make the islands bigger. 
Too bad they cannot do that to the HRBT when they add the two new tunnels.  From what I gather is that four new islands will be made to make the approaches.

Much shallower water and much less hydrostatic forces, 4 to 6 feet deep around the HRBT islands.
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2019, 12:14:55 PM »

How much public input was there regarding what to do with the gift shop/restaurant (which I stopped at a couple of times)?  Was it a big money loser?  How was its sacrifice sold to the public?

ixnay
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2019, 12:37:50 PM »

How much public input was there regarding what to do with the gift shop/restaurant (which I stopped at a couple of times)?  Was it a big money loser?  How was its sacrifice sold to the public?

ixnay

There was probably a public meeting describing the new tunnel, and it probably would've been shown that the restaurant/gift shop was going to be eliminated.

Being that the fishing pier was going to be maintained/rebuilt, I'm going to say this was a much larger concern for the general public in the area rather than a gift shop or restaurant they rarely use. 
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2019, 01:26:54 PM »

I wonder how much public input the CBBT needs to consider.  Their administrators were quite proud of their nearly complete autonomy when I met with them over 10 years ago.

(personal opinion expressed)
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2019, 01:27:33 PM »

The gift shop/restaurant was a nice-to-have, but there was no way to justify spending the extra $250 million (the number that floated around the Hampton Roads media at the time...I was still in Norfolk then) to expand the island for a replacement gift shop.
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Beltway

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2019, 04:41:57 PM »

The gift shop/restaurant was a nice-to-have, but there was no way to justify spending the extra $250 million (the number that floated around the Hampton Roads media at the time...I was still in Norfolk then) to expand the island for a replacement gift shop.

The bored tunnel gave the ability to build within 50 feet or less of the existing tunnel and staying within the existing island area. 

The wide separation on the HRBT with the tunnels 200 feet apart was needed to construct a trench for a parallel immersed tube with 2:1 slopes so that the tube can be placed and then backfilled over.  That necessitated expanding the islands.

The wide trestle separation of 200 feet on the CBBT was predicated on the same type of immersed tunnel project for the second tube.
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