Northern Virginia HOT Lanes

[1995hoo]

(Yeah, I know New Hampshire and Maine have E-ZPass facilities, but in each case it's one facility in a small part of the state, so people living at the other end of the state might not care enough to learn about it.)

Just pointing out, neither of those are true. New Hampshire has the Spaulding (NH 16), Blue Star (I-95), and Everett (US 3) Turnpikes, which total 617 lane miles and pass through all the state's major cities, including Nashua, Manchester, Concord, and Portsmouth. Maine has the Maine Turnpike, which is 101 miles long and stretches from York almost to Augusta, which is exactly a third of the way across the state, but connects to all the significant cities except Bangor. I've noticed in both of those states the toll roads are pretty well-known and large percentages of the population have a transponder.

....

Sure, but I'm talking relative to the size of the whole state. New Hampshire's toll roads are all down in the southeastern part of the state and Maine's is down in the south (although certainly I recognize that most of northern Maine is just a ton of empty forest). You're correct that New Hampshire has three rather than one and that was just sloppy writing on my part, but I don't think it changes my overall point that the toll roads in those two states represent a small portion of the overall highway system. If you live up in Dixville Notch or Fort Kent or Presque Isle, the electronic toll collection issue is largely irrelevant. That's all I was saying–there may be people in the far portions of those states that are unfamiliar with E-ZPass because they have no reason to be familiar with it.

I do think you make a good point about the stupid comments people make. I think I've seldom seen as much misinformation spewed by blog commenters and the like as I have in conjunction with the HO/T project. Then when you offer provable facts to correct them it does no good whatsoever. They simply don't want to hear it. At some point you just have to ignore the stupeys.

[deathtopumpkins]

(Yeah, I know New Hampshire and Maine have E-ZPass facilities, but in each case it's one facility in a small part of the state, so people living at the other end of the state might not care enough to learn about it.)

Just pointing out, neither of those are true. New Hampshire has the Spaulding (NH 16), Blue Star (I-95), and Everett (US 3) Turnpikes, which total 617 lane miles and pass through all the state's major cities, including Nashua, Manchester, Concord, and Portsmouth. Maine has the Maine Turnpike, which is 101 miles long and stretches from York almost to Augusta, which is exactly a third of the way across the state, but connects to all the significant cities except Bangor. I've noticed in both of those states the toll roads are pretty well-known and large percentages of the population have a transponder.

....

Sure, but I'm talking relative to the size of the whole state. New Hampshire's toll roads are all down in the southeastern part of the state and Maine's is down in the south (although certainly I recognize that most of northern Maine is just a ton of empty forest). You're correct that New Hampshire has three rather than one and that was just sloppy writing on my part, but I don't think it changes my overall point that the toll roads in those two states represent a small portion of the overall highway system. If you live up in Dixville Notch or Fort Kent or Presque Isle, the electronic toll collection issue is largely irrelevant. That's all I was saying–there may be people in the far portions of those states that are unfamiliar with E-ZPass because they have no reason to be familiar with it.

Oh no it doesn't change your point at all, I just felt like pointing out that the majority of the population of both of those states lives near their toll roads, and the states are so small anyway that no one's more than an hour or two's drive from a toll road, so, as applies to the whole of New England, everything's smaller and people get around a lot more.

[froggie]

A DC friend of mine tweeted this last night.  My photos are at home, but I believe he's right...

Saw someone backing up from getting on the 495 Express Lanes this weekend. One thing I noted: It never says TOLL on any of the signs.

[1995hoo]

A DC friend of mine tweeted this last night.  My photos are at home, but I believe he's right...

Saw someone backing up from getting on the 495 Express Lanes this weekend. One thing I noted: It never says TOLL on any of the signs.

That is what we were just discussing in the last several posts. Your friend is correct, none of them say TOLL. As I noted before, if you look at the MUTCD, their sign renderings for "priced managed lanes" do not use that word anywhere either–their theory is apparently that the ETC system's logo (or "pictograph" as they call it) is sufficient to serve this purpose. I tend to think the sign showing dollar amounts should notify drivers that it's tolled, but maybe the idea of hitting people over the head with obvious information really IS that ingrained in the American way.

[cpzilliacus]

A DC friend of mine tweeted this last night.  My photos are at home, but I believe he's right...

Saw someone backing up from getting on the 495 Express Lanes this weekend. One thing I noted: It never says TOLL on any of the signs.

That is what we were just discussing in the last several posts. Your friend is correct, none of them say TOLL. As I noted before, if you look at the MUTCD, their sign renderings for "priced managed lanes" do not use that word anywhere either–their theory is apparently that the ETC system's logo (or "pictograph" as they call it) is sufficient to serve this purpose. I tend to think the sign showing dollar amounts should notify drivers that it's tolled, but maybe the idea of hitting people over the head with obvious information really IS that ingrained in the American way.

At some entrances to toll roads or toll crossings, the word TOLL is not always explicitly there (just a logo or "pictograph" for the toll road), and  it probably should be (not because the MUTCD says so, but because that is what drivers seem to expect).  Virginia up  to now, has usually had a TOLL banner informing drivers that they are entering a tolled road or tolled crossing (I recall that was how the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike was signed before it was detolled).

[cpzilliacus]

Drove the I-495 HOV/Toll lanes for the first time today with the E-ZPass Flex transponder in HOV mode.

A red signal light comes on on the gantries as the vehicle passes under them if the transponder is in HOV mode.  It's not really possible to see this light when there is ambient natural light, but in the dark, it can be seen in the rear-view mirrors.

[1995hoo]

A DC friend of mine tweeted this last night.  My photos are at home, but I believe he's right...

Saw someone backing up from getting on the 495 Express Lanes this weekend. One thing I noted: It never says TOLL on any of the signs.

That is what we were just discussing in the last several posts. Your friend is correct, none of them say TOLL. As I noted before, if you look at the MUTCD, their sign renderings for "priced managed lanes" do not use that word anywhere either–their theory is apparently that the ETC system's logo (or "pictograph" as they call it) is sufficient to serve this purpose. I tend to think the sign showing dollar amounts should notify drivers that it's tolled, but maybe the idea of hitting people over the head with obvious information really IS that ingrained in the American way.

At some entrances to toll roads or toll crossings, the word TOLL is not always explicitly there (just a logo or "pictograph" for the toll road), and  it probably should be (not because the MUTCD says so, but because that is what drivers seem to expect).  Virginia up  to now, has usually had a TOLL banner informing drivers that they are entering a tolled road or tolled crossing (I recall that was how the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike was signed before it was detolled).

I suspect–but cannot confirm for certain–that the key distinction here is that the toll applies to just those particular lanes, not the entire road. I agree with you that this is probably an example where the MUTCD ought to be ignored.

Drove the I-495 HOV/Toll lanes for the first time today with the E-ZPass Flex transponder in HOV mode.

A red signal light comes on on the gantries as the vehicle passes under them if the transponder is in HOV mode.  It's not really possible to see this light when there is ambient natural light, but in the dark, it can be seen in the rear-view mirrors.

Now that is interesting. We're not getting a Flex, so I'll never experience this myself. Interesting that none of the media have ever mentioned this, seeing as how one of the top questions about the lanes is "how do they know you're an HOV?"

[cpzilliacus]

Drove the I-495 HOV/Toll lanes for the first time today with the E-ZPass Flex transponder in HOV mode.

A red signal light comes on on the gantries as the vehicle passes under them if the transponder is in HOV mode.  It's not really possible to see this light when there is ambient natural light, but in the dark, it can be seen in the rear-view mirrors.

Now that is interesting. We're not getting a Flex, so I'll never experience this myself. Interesting that none of the media have ever mentioned this, seeing as how one of the top questions about the lanes is "how do they know you're an HOV?"

We saw several VSP trooper cars sitting next to the gantries in the small "pull-off" areas presumably watching for HOVs (and HOV violators), but  not on  the side  we were running.

Since I was driving my truck, which has pretty heavy factory tint on the  rear windows, I was curious if they would stop me to check the back seat (we did have the required three persons).

[1995hoo]

Drove the I-495 HOV/Toll lanes for the first time today with the E-ZPass Flex transponder in HOV mode.

A red signal light comes on on the gantries as the vehicle passes under them if the transponder is in HOV mode.  It's not really possible to see this light when there is ambient natural light, but in the dark, it can be seen in the rear-view mirrors.

Now that is interesting. We're not getting a Flex, so I'll never experience this myself. Interesting that none of the media have ever mentioned this, seeing as how one of the top questions about the lanes is "how do they know you're an HOV?"

We saw several VSP trooper cars sitting next to the gantries in the small "pull-off" areas presumably watching for HOVs (and HOV violators), but  not on  the side  we were running.

Since I was driving my truck, which has pretty heavy factory tint on the  rear windows, I was curious if they would stop me to check the back seat (we did have the required three persons).

The two places where I've seen cops were at the Inner Loop gantry just north of US-29 and south of I-66 and at both gantries between the W&OD and Idylwood overpasses. I assume it was HOV enforcement as well, but every time I've seen them I've slowed from about 65 mph to about 60 mph just in case.

[Mapmikey]

A DC friend of mine tweeted this last night.  My photos are at home, but I believe he's right...

Saw someone backing up from getting on the 495 Express Lanes this weekend. One thing I noted: It never says TOLL on any of the signs.

Can't speak for all the interchanges but before each entrance at the ends of the Express Lanes you have to pass the white signs that DO say "toll" and "no toll" for the two kinds of EZ-pass.

All the rest of the signs have the EZ-pass logo.  So my logic is that if you have an EZ-pass you know what it would be for (tolls!) or you don't have one and don't know what they are for - so why would you get in the lanes marked EZ-pass if you don't have one/know what it is?

I also don't see how all those signs with $amounts on them don't register with people that this means a toll is coming...

Incidentally the red lights at the gantries are visible from the main lanes when they flash.

Mapmikey

[Stephane Dumas]

Here another video of the HOT lanes, this time going southbound from VA-267 to the Springfield interchange.

[1995hoo]

He actually entered one exit north of 267 at VA-193. The thing I noticed was the tractor-trailer that was in the lanes illegally. Wonder if the truck driver got pulled over. I've seen at least one truck stopped by the police.

[1995hoo]

Channel 4's Adam Tuss reports about a woman who used the 495 Express Lanes 16 times without an E-ZPass and received a bill for $225.00. (Report includes video.)

Sounds like she got away with it, though, as the report says they "worked away with her to wipe away the high service fees." The $12.50 charge when they send you a bill is per trip, it seems, not per invoice.

[1995hoo]

I had my first rush-hour experience with the new lanes at 4:30 this afternoon. Went from Falls Church (near Shrevewood Elementary) to Kingstowne, a trip that usually took 45 minutes to an hour before. Took me 20 minutes door-to-door tonight for a toll of $1.05 and I was doing 70 mph while the traffic in the general lanes was stopped. I was really quite surprised to see the toll so low, and there were in fact quite a few more vehicles in the Express Lanes than I've seen in the past (but still by no means crowded–had I wanted to go a whole lot faster, I could have quite easily). Maybe people are finally figuring it out.

Frankly I've been really surprised that the toll rates have been as low as they've been.

[hbelkins]

I had my first rush-hour experience with the new lanes at 4:30 this afternoon. Went from Falls Church (near Shrevewood Elementary) to Kingstowne, a trip that usually took 45 minutes to an hour before. Took me 20 minutes door-to-door tonight for a toll of $1.05 and I was doing 70 mph while the traffic in the general lanes was stopped.

A worthwhile investment of a buck and change, if you ask me. I'd gladly pay double or even triple that to avoid gridlock and save that much time.

[Stephane Dumas]

Google maps had updated the satellite imagery of Capital Beltway and they show the HOT lanes
http://goo.gl/maps/P1WxI

[jeffandnicole]

Channel 4's Adam Tuss reports about a woman who used the 495 Express Lanes 16 times without an E-ZPass and received a bill for $225.00. (Report includes video.)

Sounds like she got away with it, though, as the report says they "worked away with her to wipe away the high service fees." The $12.50 charge when they send you a bill is per trip, it seems, not per invoice.

Some roads, like the Florida Turnpike near Miami, are Video Tolling roads.  For every 30 day period or thereabouts, they'll mail you a bill with all your toll charges, and one service fee (if you don't have a transponder).

Other roads, such as most EZ Pass roads including the 495 HOT lanes, are "EZ Pass Only" roads.  Every infraction results in a fine.

[1995hoo]

I finally have an answer to this question. Took the Braddock exit from the Express Lanes today to see what was allowed. The ramp ends at a traffic light on Braddock and there are two lanes marked left-only and right-only. So legally you have to turn.

Is this actually true, in the absence of a 'no straight' sign? I've seen many surface intersections where new construction changed a T into a cross, but the arrows were not updated.

Pavement markings are considered regulatory. If it's MUTCD compliant, I'd abide by it.

Wasn't just pavement markings, either: The traffic lights had the "[left arrow]-only" and "[right arrow]-only" signs next to them, so I'd consider those pretty conclusive. I didn't post a picture of the signs because it didn't come out due to the afternoon lighting.

Peculiar update regarding my exploratory trip on the Braddock ramp mentioned above. I made that trip on December 3 and went from US-29 (Lee Highway) to Braddock in the Express Lanes, exited to observe the traffic light configuration, made a left turn onto Braddock to comply with the left-turn/right-turn only signs, then went to Ravensworth Road and looped around to the right to make a U-turn. Got back on the Beltway and then took the new HOV ramp to I-95.

Odd thing is, my E-ZPass has never been billed for it! The other three trips that day all show up, but not this one. I wonder if it's because the system sees that I didn't go through the gantry at Braddock Road but did go through the HOV ramp gantry and so it doesn't know what happened or how to bill it.

Thought I'd pass this along as an oddity that, in theory, might allow you to cheap out on some of the toll rate, although frankly I think the savings would be so minimal as not to be worth the trouble. (As I type this post you'd save 20¢.)

[Alps]

Some roads, like the Florida Turnpike near Miami, are Video Tolling roads.  For every 30 day period or thereabouts, they'll mail you a bill with all your toll charges, and one service fee (if you don't have a transponder).

I never got mailed a bill. I wonder if they only bill once the debt is over a certain amount.

[jeffandnicole]

Some roads, like the Florida Turnpike near Miami, are Video Tolling roads.  For every 30 day period or thereabouts, they'll mail you a bill with all your toll charges, and one service fee (if you don't have a transponder).

I never got mailed a bill. I wonder if they only bill once the debt is over a certain amount.

My debt was $3.00 (3, $1 tolls) plus a $2.50 service charge.  I received my bill at least 45 days after my trip.

[hbelkins]

Some roads, like the Florida Turnpike near Miami, are Video Tolling roads.  For every 30 day period or thereabouts, they'll mail you a bill with all your toll charges, and one service fee (if you don't have a transponder).

I never got mailed a bill. I wonder if they only bill once the debt is over a certain amount.

Or maybe they don't bill travelers from distant states?

[mtantillo]

Some roads, like the Florida Turnpike near Miami, are Video Tolling roads.  For every 30 day period or thereabouts, they'll mail you a bill with all your toll charges, and one service fee (if you don't have a transponder).

I never got mailed a bill. I wonder if they only bill once the debt is over a certain amount.

That is true for many toll authorities.  A toll violation that comes with a $25 fee allows them to go after anyone and everyone.  But for all electronic tolling with only a minimal toll processing fee charged, the toll authorities don't have the resources to try to collect a $2 toll from someone who may never visit the state again.  But once they realize that a certain out of state car is frequently using their toll roads for "free", they will minimize their losses by looking up the licence plate with the out of state DMV and charging for those tolls. 

I believe NTTA in Texas does not have agreements in place with any other state DOT, and will only look to collect tolls from out of state drivers once the tab is over $100.  Can't remember where I read that though, but it was when I was doing research on the topic back in early 2011. 

[jeffandnicole]

Some roads, like the Florida Turnpike near Miami, are Video Tolling roads.  For every 30 day period or thereabouts, they'll mail you a bill with all your toll charges, and one service fee (if you don't have a transponder).

I never got mailed a bill. I wonder if they only bill once the debt is over a certain amount.

Or maybe they don't bill travelers from distant states?

I believe we are both from NJ, and I got a bill.

Maybe it's because they didn't like me.

OR...maybe, it's because they knew I would pay it...and he would cheap out and ignore it.  Yeah...yeah...that's the reason why...because I'm an honest guy!!!

[Alps]

Some roads, like the Florida Turnpike near Miami, are Video Tolling roads.  For every 30 day period or thereabouts, they'll mail you a bill with all your toll charges, and one service fee (if you don't have a transponder).

I never got mailed a bill. I wonder if they only bill once the debt is over a certain amount.

Or maybe they don't bill travelers from distant states?

I believe we are both from NJ, and I got a bill.

Maybe it's because they didn't like me.

OR...maybe, it's because they knew I would pay it...and he would cheap out and ignore it.  Yeah...yeah...that's the reason why...because I'm an honest guy!!!

Hey, stop making fun of my Judaism

[cpzilliacus]

D.C. Examiner: Fairfax residents seething over I-95 express lanes ramp

Fairfax County residents are seething over Virginia's proposal to build a ramp in their neighborhood as part of the Interstate 95 express lanes.

"We're scared; we're scandalized; we're indignant that [the Virginia Department of Transportation] would continue marching forward to stay on their building schedule when in fact there are massive implications for public health here," said Mary Hasty, spokeswoman for the Concerned Residents of Landmark, a group opposing the ramp at the endpoint of the I-95 express lanes near Edsall Road.

The special lanes,which officials say will give a congestion-free ride to toll payers or carpoolers, were earlier planned to end in Arlington, but that county filed suit to block the lanes in 2009, worried they would cause pollution. The suit forced the lanes to stop short of the traffic-clogged area around the Pentagon and end near Edsall Road instead, angering residents there.