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Northern Virginia HOT Lanes

Started by mtantillo, August 14, 2012, 11:02:35 PM

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cpzilliacus

Dr. Gridlock of the Washington Post on the I-495 HOV/Toll lanes: Drivers offer tips for users, and operators, of Beltway Express Lanes

QuoteYou asked for input from drivers as to how they decide to use the new high-occupancy toll lanes on the Capital Beltway. I have been using them morning and evening and find that they cut at least a half-hour off my 28-mile commute.

QuoteThat's an hour a day that I can use productively! As noted by Gabriel Goldberg, there isn't any way to tell in advance whether the toll lanes will make a difference for a given trip. One Friday last month, they were no better than the free lanes. But, on average, the HOT lanes avoid the normal rush-hour backups and are worth it, given the current relatively modest tolls.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.


1995hoo

I know the fellow who wrote the lead letter in that column. Very sensible guy and his thoughts there are no exception.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 07, 2013, 08:40:28 AM
I know the fellow who wrote the lead letter in that column. Very sensible guy and his thoughts there are no exception.

In the small world department, I am pretty sure I know Gabe Goldberg (have not seen him for many years) from my mainframe computer days.  He works for one of the "old time" high-tech employers at Tysons Corner (or at least he used to).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

According to the radio, there was a wreck in the Inner Loop general-purpose lanes near 236 this morning. I have no idea how many people opted for the Express Lanes to bypass it, but I see the toll to drive the full distance from Springfield was $3.55 as of 8:00 (to Westpark was $3.10 and to I-66 was $2.40). Looks like they're starting to use the variable-tolling system and I'm interested in seeing how well it works. I was kind of hoping Dr. Gridlock or Adam Tuss might mention it, but so far they haven't.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 08, 2013, 09:59:25 AM
According to the radio, there was a wreck in the Inner Loop general-purpose lanes near 236 this morning. I have no idea how many people opted for the Express Lanes to bypass it, but I see the toll to drive the full distance from Springfield was $3.55 as of 8:00 (to Westpark was $3.10 and to I-66 was $2.40). Looks like they're starting to use the variable-tolling system and I'm interested in seeing how well it works. I was kind of hoping Dr. Gridlock or Adam Tuss might mention it, but so far they haven't.

That toll "sounds right" to me. 
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Washington Post: Fairfax residents balk at I-95 express lanes ramp

QuoteConstruction is underway on the Interstate 95 express lanes, with the new high-occupancy toll road expected to open late next year. But residents living at the northernmost point of the planned lanes are unhappy with the congestion and pollution they say the project will bring.

QuoteThe express lanes will begin on I-95 in Stafford County and end between Edsall Road and Duke Street on Interstate 395 in Fairfax County, so a ramp must be built to carry vehicles from the new lanes to the regular roadway. That new ramp will be in a neighborhood just west of the Alexandria city line, much to the dismay of residents.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

NJRoadfan

Someone from the DOT should direct those residents to the Arlington County government and tell them "Hey, its THEIR fault! Blame them for blocking the lanes north of there."

cpzilliacus

Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 08, 2013, 09:38:54 PM
Someone from the DOT should direct those residents to the Arlington County government and tell them "Hey, its THEIR fault! Blame them for blocking the lanes north of there."

It's been suggested a few times in the comments for this article.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

froggie

Disagree.  The proposed ramp has long been the "missing movement" at Turkeycock.  It's crazy that you can enter the southbound HOV lanes there but can't exit northbound.

1995hoo

Quote from: froggie on January 10, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
Disagree.  The proposed ramp has long been the "missing movement" at Turkeycock.  It's crazy that you can enter the southbound HOV lanes there but can't exit northbound.

Back when they first built the HOV facility it wasn't really that big of a deal because the reversible carriageway ended just to the south of Springfield. The primary bottleneck in that area was always the southbound general-purpose carriageway due to all the weaving between the Beltway and the Route 644 interchange. The problem was never anywhere nearly as bad in the northbound direction. But once they extended the HOV facility south to Dumfries it became a more serious omission, especially prior to the Springfield Interchange reconstruction.

I agree with you that the ramp should have been constructed regardless of whether the HO/T system had been run all the way up to the Pentagon. I do foresee a couple of problems with it, though, the main one being that it will fly over the northbound general-purpose lanes so traffic enters on the right. The reason that's a problem is that it's a confined area with the rather busy Landmark exit coming up immediately afterwards–essentially, it creates a new weave area where HO/T-to-local traffic pushes left just as local-to-Landmark traffic pushes right. Of course it would also be a problem to have the ramp enter on the left, and I'm not pretending to know what the ideal solution would be.

I certainly understand why the people in Landmark Mews (the very large, very nice, and very expensive townhouses overlooking I-395 next to this project) are upset, although it's funny that it's the people in Overlook (located further away from I-395) who are making the noise. But I can't say I'm entirely sympathetic. One rule of thumb I've always kept in mind is that it's a bad idea to buy property too close to an arterial route or a major highway, simply because of the risk of disruption to your property (whether via eminent domain, increased noise, pollution, whatever) if road expansion or reconfiguration is ever needed. It's simply too much of a roll of the dice, and I think it's extremely unreasonable to argue that you didn't expect them to build a new ramp, or otherwise reconfigure the road, when you bought your house. Everyone knows roads get widened and other improvements get made.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 10, 2013, 11:25:17 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 10, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
Disagree.  The proposed ramp has long been the "missing movement" at Turkeycock.  It's crazy that you can enter the southbound HOV lanes there but can't exit northbound.

Back when they first built the HOV facility it wasn't really that big of a deal because the reversible carriageway ended just to the south of Springfield. The primary bottleneck in that area was always the southbound general-purpose carriageway due to all the weaving between the Beltway and the Route 644 interchange. The problem was never anywhere nearly as bad in the northbound direction. But once they extended the HOV facility south to Dumfries it became a more serious omission, especially prior to the Springfield Interchange reconstruction.

This is absolutely correct.  And for many years leading up to the completion of the Springfield Interchange,southbound non-HOV traffic was permitted to enter the express lanes at Turkeycock Run, but they had to exit at Va. 644 (Old Keene Mill Road) westbound - even during the HOV-3 restricted period, 3:30 to 6:00 since about 1990.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 10, 2013, 11:25:17 AM
I agree with you that the ramp should have been constructed regardless of whether the HO/T system had been run all the way up to the Pentagon. I do foresee a couple of problems with it, though, the main one being that it will fly over the northbound general-purpose lanes so traffic enters on the right. The reason that's a problem is that it's a confined area with the rather busy Landmark exit coming up immediately afterwards–essentially, it creates a new weave area where HO/T-to-local traffic pushes left just as local-to-Landmark traffic pushes right. Of course it would also be a problem to have the ramp enter on the left, and I'm not pretending to know what the ideal solution would be.

Though the northbound conventional (non-HOV) lanes are always badly congested in the mornings between Va. 648 (Edsall Road) and Va. 236 (Duke Street) anyway.  I personally am glad that the ramp will bring the exiting traffic in on the right.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 10, 2013, 11:25:17 AM
I certainly understand why the people in Landmark Mews (the very large, very nice, and very expensive townhouses overlooking I-395 next to this project) are upset, although it's funny that it's the people in Overlook (located further away from I-395) who are making the noise. But I can't say I'm entirely sympathetic. One rule of thumb I've always kept in mind is that it's a bad idea to buy property too close to an arterial route or a major highway, simply because of the risk of disruption to your property (whether via eminent domain, increased noise, pollution, whatever) if road expansion or reconfiguration is ever needed. It's simply too much of a roll of the dice, and I think it's extremely unreasonable to argue that you didn't expect them to build a new ramp, or otherwise reconfigure the road, when you bought your house. Everyone knows roads get widened and other improvements get made.

Hey, people need to think of what is around them before they purchase real estate.  That includes planned improvements, too.

My community in Montgomery County was next to a very crash-prone at-grade intersection (U.S. 29 and Briggs Chaney Road), and it was common knowledge that the state wanted to replace that intersection with a grade-separated interchange.  So we were not especially shocked when the state wanted to condemn some of our common property for that project, though they low-balled us on the offer.  But I suggested to our Board of Directors (and they agreed) that we hire a competent attorney well-versed in planning and zoning matters, and we did.  That attorney was able to show that the Maryland State Highway Administration really owed us over $450,000 instead of the $150,000 that they offered us - and the SHA ended up paying us that larger sum without complaint.

Some years later, SHA wanted some of our land for the Md. 200 project, and we were glad to take their money, but we pointed out to them that the  land they wanted included an earthen dam for a stormwater management pond, and we expected that they would build us a brand-new dam as a replacement (we used the same attorney as before).   This went on for quite a few months, and we spent many thousands of dollars going back and forth with the state's property acquisition agents and the assistant state attorney general working with them and their engineers.  In the end, the state agreed with us that they did not want to purchase the dam and have to build us a new one (it would have cost millions of dollars), so the state reconfigured what they wanted to do - and ended up giving us a check for all of the money we spent negotiating with them.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

#236
Dr. Gridlock reports the 495 Express Lanes averaged 23,308 vpd in their first six weeks of operation.

It'd be interesting to see the statistics on where trips started and ended. In particular, given that the lanes opened just over a month before Christmas, I'd be interested in knowing whether a disproportionate number of trips used the Westpark exit (suggesting mall traffic–I know I used the lanes to go to the mall at least twice) and whether the January figures show a different trend.

Heard on the radio this morning that there was another truck accident this morning, though I was half-asleep and didn't catch exactly where. I'd be interested in seeing the numbers, when available, to see whether traffic in the Express Lanes spikes once the traffic reporters mention such incidents.



Edited to add: I see Adam Tuss of Channel 4 has a series of tweets with some numbers. I'll combine them all into a single quotation:

QuoteDuring the first 6 weeks, toll revenue grew 99.1% from a daily average of $12,212 in the first week of operations to an average of $24,317 in the week prior to the Christmas/New Year holidays. To travel the full length of the Express Lanes, the minimum toll price for the period was $1.65 and the maximum peak price was $3.70. The average toll per trip thus far has been $1.07. On average, 92.6% of trips on the Beltway Express Lanes are tolled trips. $828,000 is total revenue from date Beltway Express Lanes opened to 12/31/12. Don't forget operator of lanes collects tolls for next 75 yrs.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 10, 2013, 02:46:47 PM

Hey, people need to think of what is around them before they purchase real estate.  That includes planned improvements, too.

Yes...unfortunately, that doesn't happen too often.  And in some cases, there's stuff private developers do, and these people will still blame the highway authority.  Take this example from the December 2012 NJ Turnpike Regular Meeting Minutes ( http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/Minutes-468-507.pdf ) where a member of the public spoke to the board:

"Since the early 1990's, Mrs. Bellocchio has lived at...Ramblewood Parkway, Mt. Laurel, which is located near Interchange 4 on the Turnpike. Mrs. Bellocchio said that she and her neighbors live very close to the roadway because there is not significant right of way between the homeowner's property lines and the roadway. Thus, she has always been able to hear noise from the roadway. She claimed, however, that recently sound levels have escalated. She noted that as part of the recent construction of a solar field, her town authorized the removal of trees which were located between the roadway and her neighborhood and buffered roadway noise. Mrs. Bellocchio stated that the Authority has been very responsive to her requests to address her concerns and those of her neighbors by planting trees. But she would like more trees planted, a berm built, or sound walls constructed in the area. Homeowners in this area want assurance from the Authority that the decibel levels not be above recommended sound levels."

So not only did she move into a neighborhood nearly 40 years after the highway was built, but the Turnpike Authority (IMO) has been overly accommodating to her for a private developer's actions!


Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 10, 2013, 02:46:47 PM


In the end, the state agreed with us that they did not want to purchase the dam and have to build us a new one (it would have cost millions of dollars), so the state reconfigured what they wanted to do - and ended up giving us a check for all of the money we spent negotiating with them.

Good for you guys!  :clap:

cpzilliacus

#238
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 11, 2013, 10:33:16 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 10, 2013, 02:46:47 PM

Hey, people need to think of what is around them before they purchase real estate.  That includes planned improvements, too.

Yes...unfortunately, that doesn't happen too often.  And in some cases, there's stuff private developers do, and these people will still blame the highway authority.  Take this example from the December 2012 NJ Turnpike Regular Meeting Minutes ( http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/Minutes-468-507.pdf ) where a member of the public spoke to the board:

"Since the early 1990's, Mrs. Bellocchio has lived at...Ramblewood Parkway, Mt. Laurel, which is located near Interchange 4 on the Turnpike. Mrs. Bellocchio said that she and her neighbors live very close to the roadway because there is not significant right of way between the homeowner's property lines and the roadway. Thus, she has always been able to hear noise from the roadway. She claimed, however, that recently sound levels have escalated. She noted that as part of the recent construction of a solar field, her town authorized the removal of trees which were located between the roadway and her neighborhood and buffered roadway noise. Mrs. Bellocchio stated that the Authority has been very responsive to her requests to address her concerns and those of her neighbors by planting trees. But she would like more trees planted, a berm built, or sound walls constructed in the area. Homeowners in this area want assurance from the Authority that the decibel levels not be above recommended sound levels."

So not only did she move into a neighborhood nearly 40 years after the highway was built, but the Turnpike Authority (IMO) has been overly accommodating to her for a private developer's actions!

All (or very nearly all) of the present-day New Jersey Turnpike has been there since 1951 (and the segment of the Pike that she backs-up to is relatively little changed since then, and as a bonus, most of it  has forested buffers along both sides but inside the right-of-way fences - I have not been on the Turnpike for about a year, so I have not seen the area that she says the Turnpike Authority has removed the trees).  If someone purchases a home next to the Pike, they need to expect to hear lots of traffic sound.  My sympathy meter for Mrs. Bellocchio is on zero

I find it curious that she's complaining when she lives south of Exit 6 (Pennsylvania Turnpike connection) - there is normally less traffic between Exit 1 and Exit 6 on the mainline of the Pike.

I get the impression that the Turnpike Authority likes to plant trees when possible (and not just on the Garden State Parkway either), and it should be commended for that.  I think it reasonable to assume that the Turnpike will be planting new trees near her property if and when possible.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 11, 2013, 10:47:58 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 11, 2013, 10:33:16 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 10, 2013, 02:46:47 PM

Hey, people need to think of what is around them before they purchase real estate.  That includes planned improvements, too.

Yes...unfortunately, that doesn't happen too often.  And in some cases, there's stuff private developers do, and these people will still blame the highway authority.  Take this example from the December 2012 NJ Turnpike Regular Meeting Minutes ( http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/Minutes-468-507.pdf ) where a member of the public spoke to the board:

"Since the early 1990's, Mrs. Bellocchio has lived at...Ramblewood Parkway, Mt. Laurel, which is located near Interchange 4 on the Turnpike. Mrs. Bellocchio said that she and her neighbors live very close to the roadway because there is not significant right of way between the homeowner's property lines and the roadway. Thus, she has always been able to hear noise from the roadway. She claimed, however, that recently sound levels have escalated. She noted that as part of the recent construction of a solar field, her town authorized the removal of trees which were located between the roadway and her neighborhood and buffered roadway noise. Mrs. Bellocchio stated that the Authority has been very responsive to her requests to address her concerns and those of her neighbors by planting trees. But she would like more trees planted, a berm built, or sound walls constructed in the area. Homeowners in this area want assurance from the Authority that the decibel levels not be above recommended sound levels."

So not only did she move into a neighborhood nearly 40 years after the highway was built, but the Turnpike Authority (IMO) has been overly accommodating to her for a private developer's actions!

All (or very nearly all) of the present-day New Jersey Turnpike has been there since 1951 (and the segment of the Pike that she backs-up to is relatively little changed since then, and as a bonus, most of it  has forested buffers along both sides but inside the right-of-way fences - I have not been on the Turnpike for about a year, so I have not seen the area that she says the Turnpike Authority has removed the trees).  If someone purchases a home next to the Pike, they need to expect to hear lots of traffic sound.  My sympathy meter for Mrs. Bellocchio is on zero

I get the impression that the Turnpike Authority likes to plant trees when possible (and not just on the Garden State Parkway either), and it should be commended for that.  I think it reasonable to assume that the Turnpike will be planting new trees near her property if and when possible.

Actually, per the article, the private developer for the solor farm removed the trees, with the township's approval.  At least based on what was written in the minutes, the turnpike had nothing to do with this.

The Turnpike has removed a number of trees along the Turnpike (& GS Parkway) over the past few years; most of which were close to the turnpike roadway and were likely to be hit if a vehicle went about 20' off the roadway.  In some instances the turnpike has planted new trees further back.  I've seem complaints about that, but as you mentioned, in almost all cases the homeowners purchased the house and/or property well after the turnpike was there.  Driving thru some of these areas, we're not talking forests of trees that were removed; I doubt removing a few trees here and there really increased the noise all that much.

1995hoo

#241
Video from the 495 Express Lanes at about 8:19 this morning:




Saw three cop cars in there on this trip and three more on my way back a few hours later. I've heard a lot of rumblings that there's a lot of speed enforcement in there. I have to say it's kind of annoying at non-rush periods when you have to keep it to 60 mph because of a cop in the Express Lanes while everyone on the other side of the barrier is going 70+. Yeah, the ride is a lot more relaxed in the Express Lanes, but it just kind of feels irksome on principle.

(By the way, my trip this morning is an example of how those lanes might change driving patterns. I was going to the dentist just east of downtown Fairfax. In the past I've always taken the Fairfax County Parkway to Roberts Parkway/Roberts Road and then taken that up to Main Street, VA-236; the dentist is near the light at Roberts and Main. Today instead I took the Beltway Express Lanes to I-66, then west to Nutley Street and down Pickett Road to Main Street. Fair number of traffic lights going that way, but it was still faster than the old route.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

I don't knock WTOP for running this story, but it is remarkable that some people don't understand the idea behind pricing for a congestion-free trip.

Transurban: Express Lanes price depends on traffic

QuoteLess than three months since the Beltway Express Lanes opened in Fairfax County, listeners are telling WTOP that prices seem to be going up, even outside of rush hour.

QuoteOne caller tells WTOP he rides the Express Lanes from end to end weekday mornings at 5 a.m., but notes that prices have jumped from $1.80 to $2.10 since November.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

NJRoadfan

Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 01, 2013, 10:29:46 AM
I don't knock WTOP for running this story, but it is remarkable that some people don't understand the idea behind pricing for a congestion-free trip.

Transurban: Express Lanes price depends on traffic

I see what they are getting at. One would assume the express lanes would be at the "base" price at all times during the off peak hours. The price seems to be creeping up despite the lanes being empty. When I drove them back in December, the full length was a $1.85 toll, vs. the $1.65 it was when they opened...... but the HOT lanes were completely empty and the mainline beltway was flying at 75mph with zero delays.

1995hoo

Adam Tuss of Channel 4 is going to do a story on the issue tonight. Usually his reports show up within 24 hours on http://www.nbcwashington.com under the "Video" tab.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

NJRoadfan

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 01, 2013, 04:14:19 PM
Adam Tuss of Channel 4 is going to do a story on the issue tonight. Usually his reports show up within 24 hours on http://www.nbcwashington.com under the "Video" tab.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/video/#!/news/top-stories/Rising-Cost-of-Va--Express-Lanes/189447061

TransUrban weaseled their way around the question. So I have a few questions.

1. Is anyone from VDOT overseeing/auditing this public-private venture? Honestly, their excuse that there are other "less visible" factors was easily BS on the day I took the lanes. The price shouldn't raise until the lanes actually...umm... have traffic in them. The whole purpose of the variable toll is to induce demand destruction and keep them free flowing. Private ventures (in general, not specifically road related) have a history of dishonesty in order to make the quarterly report look good.

2. Is there a maximum toll limit on the lanes? I can see a beltway event causing people to pile on these lanes and forcing the average speed down. It would cause the toll to skyrocket to an unreasonable value in an attempt to keep the lanes free flowing. Is there any sort of circuit breaker to limit the amount?

froggie

As I understand it, there is no maximum.

1995hoo

Quote from: froggie on February 02, 2013, 08:15:03 AM
As I understand it, there is no maximum.

That is correct and the project's website confirms it. 
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

vdeane

Quote from: froggie on February 02, 2013, 08:15:03 AM
As I understand it, there is no maximum.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 02, 2013, 12:07:32 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 02, 2013, 08:15:03 AM
As I understand it, there is no maximum.

That is correct and the project's website confirms it. 
Maybe not by law/policy, but I would think there is a de facto maximum based on the carrying capacity of the lanes.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: deanej on February 02, 2013, 05:43:48 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 02, 2013, 08:15:03 AM
As I understand it, there is no maximum.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 02, 2013, 12:07:32 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 02, 2013, 08:15:03 AM
As I understand it, there is no maximum.

That is correct and the project's website confirms it. 
Maybe not by law/policy, but I would think there is a de facto maximum based on the carrying capacity of the lanes.

There's a maximum in terms of capacity, but the intent of these lanes is that traffic volumes in them will never reach that maximum.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.