News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Northern Virginia HOT Lanes

Started by mtantillo, August 14, 2012, 11:02:35 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

jeffandnicole

Quote from: mtantillo on December 15, 2014, 01:52:12 PM
Between the people that have no clue, the people who don't understand a darn thing about how congestion pricing and basic supply/demand works, and the people who think that 5 lanes of stopped traffic is better than 3 lanes of stopped traffic and 2 lanes managed to operate at speed...

When EZ Pass was newer, I remember seeing complaints from people that thought too many lanes were dedicated to EZ Pass, and that the length of the EZ Pass line queue should be the same as the length of the cash paying line queue.


1995hoo

#551
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 15, 2014, 02:09:02 PM
Quote from: mtantillo on December 15, 2014, 01:52:12 PM
Between the people that have no clue, the people who don't understand a darn thing about how congestion pricing and basic supply/demand works, and the people who think that 5 lanes of stopped traffic is better than 3 lanes of stopped traffic and 2 lanes managed to operate at speed...

When EZ Pass was newer, I remember seeing complaints from people that thought too many lanes were dedicated to EZ Pass, and that the length of the EZ Pass line queue should be the same as the length of the cash paying line queue.

As Dr. Gridlock has said–and I think he's right–people are so conditioned to seeing congested roads, they automatically assume that if anything is moving anywhere close to normal speed it must mean it's underutilized.





Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 15, 2014, 02:07:49 PM
....

Or This Shoutout...

Quote
Q:   Maryland HOT lanes   

I don't drive I-95 north of Baltimore very often but last week I was able to try out their new HOT lanes for free. I entered the lanes at the northern-most point and exited at 895. I was very impressed with the limited on/off ramps (keeps confusion to minimum) and also the signage was very clear. In both regards, the lanes were easier to use than the Beltway's current HOT lanes. Will the per-mile pricing rates be similar all over I-95?

A: Robert Thomson 

Maryland doesn't have any HOT lanes. I mention this just to illustrate how complex these new tolling systems can be, and why it takes us time to learn how to use them.

HOT stands for high-occupancy toll. (Even that term is confusing. I like the way frequent blog commenter 1995hoo writes it: HO/T, for high-occupany/toll. You either ride free as a high-occupancy carpooler, or you pay a toll.)

....

Heh. I saw that when he posted it. The credit for that abbreviation really belongs to froggie since I picked it up after seeing he'd written it that way and thinking it was a useful way to denote the "OR" aspect of how such lanes operate.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Mapmikey

Since there were 5 separate problems with I-95 mainline this afternoon (4 definitely were not related to Express Lanes) I cannot give a full appraisal of the conditions.

I can say that there did not appear to be any issues where the 3rd lane drops at VA 294 - looked to be traveling near the speed limit there.

I did notice that the slowdown on the lanes began 3/4 of a mile from the end.  It looks like the flyover curves are sharp enough (30 mph posted) that this may be the cause of Express Lane slowdown and not the weave onto I-95.  There were no issues on mainline 95 at the new south end but one of the wrecks was close enoughto this location that it might have affected 95's true flow down there.

Mapmikey

mtantillo

I wanted to try the SB configuration tonight, but Transurban is already deviating from their published schedule...lanes closed before 9PM. Tomorrow I guess!

1995hoo

#554
Quote from: mtantillo on December 15, 2014, 11:04:11 PM
I wanted to try the SB configuration tonight, but Transurban is already deviating from their published schedule...lanes closed before 9PM. Tomorrow I guess!

I'm planning to use them southbound on Saturday. Don't want to drive an extra sixty miles this week just to explore the lanes, especially now that I woke up this morning to the news of the water main break downtown that's messing up the Metro such that I'm going to be driving my wife to work again. We may be using your suggestion of taking the Beltway HO/T lanes to I-66 because I have a hunch 12 Street being closed at E will back up I-395 as well, due both to congestion and to people using other routes to get around. (When there's a problem in that area, a lot of people bail to Memorial Bridge, but in our case, that's the most direct route, hence why I find another way entirely.)


Edited to add: For what it's worth, at 8:10 AM entering the Beltway lanes at their southern end it was $6.45 to I-66, $12.00 to the lanes' northern end. We were at I-66 within five minutes, so well worth the toll....unfortunately, it was one of those mornings where when one thing goes wrong, everything is slow. Still took an hour to get to the Watergate complex even with HOV on I-66. Apparently there was a wreck on the Roosevelt Bridge.  :ded:
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

WAMU Radio: Transurban Takes Step Towards Profitability With 495 Express Lanes

QuoteAfter losing $51 million in its first full year of operations in 2013, the 495 Express Lanes – 14 miles of E-ZPass-only toll and HOV-3 lanes along the Beltway in Northern Virginia – are collecting enough toll revenue to cover their operating expenses as 2014 comes to a close, said the chief executive of the highway's private sector operator, Australia-based Transurban.

QuoteWhile the express lanes' customer base is expanding, Transurban may not make a profit on its long-term investment for several more years, said Transurban CEO Scott Charlton, in an interview with WAMU 88.5.

Quote"We're at a point where we are more than covering our operating costs now and so we are happy with the investment that we restructured,"  said Charlton, referring to the $1.1 billion of debt raised to fund the cost of construction of the 495 Express Lanes. "We look at it as a long-term investment. It is not a short-term investment."

Quote"We expect to be covering our operating costs and paying our debt, but from an accounting profit, that is going to be years off. But we expect to make distributions to our shareholders around 2020 or late this decade,"  he added.

QuoteAs the opening of Transurban's other project in Northern Virginia – 95 Express Lanes between Fairfax and Stafford Counties – ignites a new discussion over how to defeat traffic congestion in the D.C. area, the company portends further revenue growth on the 495 corridor now that both toll roads form a 45-mile network of congestion-free lanes for drive-alone commuters, carpoolers, and buses.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

#556
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 16, 2014, 07:23:24 AM
Edited to add: For what it's worth, at 8:10 AM entering the Beltway lanes at their southern end it was $6.45 to I-66, $12.00 to the lanes' northern end. We were at I-66 within five minutes, so well worth the toll....unfortunately, it was one of those mornings where when one thing goes wrong, everything is slow. Still took an hour to get to the Watergate complex even with HOV on I-66. Apparently there was a wreck on the Roosevelt Bridge.  :ded: 

I have heard of other people using the I-495 HOV/Toll  lanes to get to I-66 eastbound. 

A wreck on the T. Roosevelt is bad for several reasons: there is no viable alternative route from I-66 (the Memorial Bridge, not all that easy to get to from I-66, cannot handle the extra traffic, nor can the Key Bridge nor can the 14th Street Bridge); there is normally no D.C. Roadway Operations Patrol unit near the bridge; and because the bridge is in the District of Columbia, it means that the Metropolitan Police of the District of Columbia will respond to it at their leisure (though VDOT's Safety Service Patrol contractors will often get there first and provide some traffic control).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: mtantillo on December 15, 2014, 11:04:11 PM
I wanted to try the SB configuration tonight, but Transurban is already deviating from their published schedule...lanes closed before 9PM. Tomorrow I guess!

I get the impression that Transurban still has some stuff on their punch list to deal with, and maybe some stuff that is not quite finished. 

Bob Marbourg was reporting some congestion on southbound I-95 near Va. 610 (Garrisonville Road) in Stafford County at the south end of the Transurban lanes.  Be interesting if all that misery at Va. 234 in the afternoons just migrates south to Va. 610.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

I believe Transurban also said they would be closing the gates earlier than usual during these first few weeks as they take over the gates' operation from VDOT. I assumed the rationale is simply an overabundance of caution.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 16, 2014, 01:11:39 PM
I believe Transurban also said they would be closing the gates earlier than usual during these first few weeks as they take over the gates' operation from VDOT. I assumed the rationale is simply an overabundance of caution.

If I read it correctly, Transurban will deal with checking the gates all the way up to Va. 27 (Washington Boulevard) and the Pentagon.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

#560
Quote from: mtantillo on December 15, 2014, 11:04:11 PM
I wanted to try the SB configuration tonight, but Transurban is already deviating from their published schedule...lanes closed before 9PM. Tomorrow I guess!

I just read the lanes will be closed overnight tonight until 8:00 AM for further electronics work. Damn. I hope they finish and open them early because I wanted to use them. Oh well, I guess I can check it out in a few weeks, though I was looking forward to my free ride.

I suppose there isn't really a new scenery anyway, just the novelty of not encountering a construction mess on that segment of I-95.


Edited to add: BTW, I was in the northbound express lanes earlier this morning. Seems to me the signs for the northbound transition from HO/T to HOV are eminently clear. I might have added something to the effect of "NON-HOV MUST EXIT [listing appropriate hours]," whether on a separate sign or below other info. There used to be a notation like that at the southbound flyover ramp marked for the Fairfax County Parkway, the one just south of Route 644; I believe it said "NON-HOV'S MUST EXIT/3:30—6:00 PM WEEKDAYS" or something like that (I don't know why they included that erroneous apostrophe, but whatever).

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

mtantillo

^^ I would venture to guess the electronic signs would have that instruction on it during the necessary hours.

1995hoo

Quote from: mtantillo on December 19, 2014, 09:08:42 PM
^^ I would venture to guess the electronic signs would have that instruction on it during the necessary hours.

Good point. There is a VMS a short distance to the south that's still covered up, so maybe that will say it. As I said, I think those white signs seen above are very clear anyway, but sometimes you have to hit people over the head.

I pushed back our departure by an hour tomorrow under the guise of wanting more sleep (and I do hate getting up in the dark so it's somewhat legitimate as an excuse). Hopefully Transurban reopens the lanes on time.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

mrsman

Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 13, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
Quote from: froggie on December 13, 2014, 07:32:10 AM
QuoteI meant one additional lane operated as HO/T, not conversion of an existing one.
That's definitely not going to happen.  I was under the distinct impression from the recent study that the idea to convert 66 to HO/T would be conversion of all existing lanes but not add any new lanes.

Arlington County's elected officials were confident that they would stop all of I-66  between I-495 and Rosslyn in the planning process or in court.

They didn't.  What the Commonwealth wants, the Commonwealth usually gets.  In this case a scaled-down version of what VDH originally wanted, but still a continuous freeway to close that gap, which Arlington had vowed to stop.

Having said that, there is not really much widening that is warranted (IMO) - 3.8 miles according to Google Maps, and much of it (especially on the westbound side) has already been widened.

I would like to see continuous three lanes all the way from the Dulles Connector Road's half interchange, Exit 67 (westbound only) to the Exit 71 for Va. 120/Va. 237 (North Glebe Road) (eastbound side).  Much of the added lane work is already in place (in particular on the westbound side between Exit 71 to Exit 69 (Sycamore Street).

I wanted to get in on the conversation, but unfortunately was too busy to do it until now.

CPZ mentions the current Dulles exemption to the I-66 HOV rules.  Essentially, Dulles Airport users get a toll free bypass on the Dulles Access Road and they also get a free pass from the HOV rules on I-66, all the way to DC. 

Essentially, as far as I-66 is concerned, eastbound if a car is coming from the Dulles Access Road, they can drive on I-66, but any new car that joins I-66 from the Beltway, from I-66 west of the Beltway, from the Dulles Toll Road, or from any of the on-ramps in that area are committing a violation if they are not HOV.

I was wondering whether implementation of a similar rule might resolve some of the problems on the 95/395 express lanes at Edsall.   
Northbound, anyone who is already in the express lanes (because they paid some kind of toll), are permitted to continue their journey all the way to the Pentagon (or DC), but any new vehicles coming in from an on-ramp in Arlington must be HOV-3 (no transponder necessary) during morning rush.

For southbound, I don't see the proposed implementation as being much of a problem.  Only HOV will be on the roadway at first, and then they'll be joined by toll-paying customers at Edsall.  Very few people will be forced to exit, since I imagine that any regular HOV driver on the corridor will get an EZ Pass Flex. 

oscar

Quote from: mrsman on December 21, 2014, 12:11:30 PM
I was wondering whether implementation of a similar rule might resolve some of the problems on the 95/395 express lanes at Edsall.   
Northbound, anyone who is already in the express lanes (because they paid some kind of toll), are permitted to continue their journey all the way to the Pentagon (or DC), but any new vehicles coming in from an on-ramp in Arlington must be HOV-3 (no transponder necessary) during morning rush.

Arlington County didn't want non-HOV traffic during rush hours on its part of the HOV lanes, with the limited exceptions already in place for traffic between the Pentagon and D.C.  Its lawsuit, on that basis, is why the HO/T lanes end in Alexandria.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

1995hoo

We drove down the I-95 express lanes yesterday en route to Florida. The right lane of the three-lane segment could be smoother. The ride in that lane was a bit bouncy due to rippled pavement. Otherwise, perfectly nice way to drive. Nothing too interesting to say about it.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

mtantillo

Yesterday CPZ and I took a ride down the new lanes. The intent was to drive south, have late lunch in Fredericksburg and take our time, and then take the lanes back north after 4. Our plan was thwarted because they never did a midday reversal, the lanes were open southbound all day.

As a result of no realistic way to control congestion, there was a 25 minute backup to exit the lanes at the southern end (and barely any delay on the mainline). Then because the lanes never opened  northbound, that direction was gridlock most of the way to the Beltway. So not exactly the best experience.

froggie

Your plan might have had better luck had you not tried it on a weekend that is right before a major holiday or is involved with a holiday.

mtantillo

I don't think it was that. Transurban has been shutting the lanes down overnight. So they likely got lazy and decided when they opened them SB on Saturday to just leave them SB all day, then close them for the overnight, and reopen them northbound on Sunday rather than do a midday flip. They have also been shutting the lanes down at about 8:30 PM on weeknight.

I really hope this isn't going to be a pattern. People have to know whether the lanes can be expected to be open at a given time based on the schedule. If they are going to deviate from that, they need to let people know through the media outlets and provide a reason (a reason other than "we didn't feel like doing a flip"). If they just haphazardly pick a schedule, then people can't really depend on the lanes.

froggie

Pretty sure they have to adhere to VDOT's scheduling.  I'd guess they kept them open southbound all day to accommodate the out-of-town exodus for the holiday.  VDOT's done that in the past...

oscar

Quote from: mtantillo on December 21, 2014, 03:26:55 PM
Yesterday CPZ and I took a ride down the new lanes. The intent was to drive south, have late lunch in Fredericksburg and take our time, and then take the lanes back north after 4. Our plan was thwarted because they never did a midday reversal, the lanes were open southbound all day.

I'm hoping that Transurban follows a Saturday schedule on Christmas Day so I can do what you tried to do.  Since the lanes will need to be open southbound for the Christmas Eve evening rush, and probably northbound for the Boxing Day morning rush (for those commuting that day, rather than making returns at the malls -- but most Federal workers will have the day off), I expect Transurban will need to reverse the lanes at some point, and hope it'll do it midday on Christmas.

But I'm not betting the ranch on that.  Hopefully Transurban will stick better to its schedules once it starts charging tolls.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

cpzilliacus

Washington Post: Virginia HOT lanes aren't everything advocates hoped, or critics feared

QuoteA decade and a half after the conversation began, the D.C. region's commuters still are trying to figure out the HOT lanes concept.

QuoteIt isn't just a matter of understanding how to navigate the high-occupancy toll lanes. They want to know where these things came from.

QuoteSome have dim memories of discussions involving the Virginia Department of Transportation. Others are just beginning to focus on this major change in highway travel because they heard the Interstate 95 Express Lanes go HOT on Dec. 29.

QuoteIn late November, one traveler asked me: "Is there any chance of reversing VDOT's decision to create a full-time toll road that also requires the use of the E-ZPass transponder?"
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Still images of the 95 Express Lanes from North to South, taken yesterday and posted on Facebook (you do not need a Facebook account to see these): https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10204418042243252&type=1&l=5a4961a43d
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Zeffy

Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 21, 2014, 11:40:20 PM
Still images of the 95 Express Lanes from North to South, taken yesterday and posted on Facebook (you do not need a Facebook account to see these): https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10204418042243252&type=1&l=5a4961a43d

Thanks for sharing! I agree with 1995hoo's comment on how Transurban did a pretty good job on the signage.
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

mrsman

Quote from: oscar on December 21, 2014, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: mtantillo on December 21, 2014, 03:26:55 PM
Yesterday CPZ and I took a ride down the new lanes. The intent was to drive south, have late lunch in Fredericksburg and take our time, and then take the lanes back north after 4. Our plan was thwarted because they never did a midday reversal, the lanes were open southbound all day.

I'm hoping that Transurban follows a Saturday schedule on Christmas Day so I can do what you tried to do.  Since the lanes will need to be open southbound for the Christmas Eve evening rush, and probably northbound for the Boxing Day morning rush (for those commuting that day, rather than making returns at the malls -- but most Federal workers will have the day off), I expect Transurban will need to reverse the lanes at some point, and hope it'll do it midday on Christmas.

But I'm not betting the ranch on that.  Hopefully Transurban will stick better to its schedules once it starts charging tolls.

To me it seems that the most important thing is to keep a schedule in place that can be easily found.  I would expect that any week with a major holiday should have some type of shift that is different from the norm.

The norm:

SUN All day north
MON Northbound until 11 a.m., closed 11-1, southbound 1 - 12 MID
TUE WED THURS FRI Closed 12 Mid - 2 am, Northbound 2 am - 11 am, closed 11-1, southbound 1pm -12 MID
SAT Southbound 12 MID - 2pm, Closed 2pm-4pm, Northbound 4pm-MID.

The question then comes up regarding major holidays, minor holidays, and days that aren't officially holidays but have a lot of people not working (like Boxing Day or the day after Thanksgiving, etc.)

I'm not sure what is actually done, but I would impose the following:

Minor holidays: Columbus, Vets, MLK, Pres Day - weekday reversion schedule with no HOV restictions.

If a major holiday (exc. July 4) is on a Monday - all day northbound.
If Xmas/NY is on Tuesday - Mon and Tuesday should be all day northbound.
If Xmas/NY is on Wed. -Wed. all day northbound.
If Xmas/NY/Thanksgiving is on Thursday - Thursday and Friday should be all day southbound.
If Xmas/NY is on Friday- Friday should be all day southbound.

July 4 should be reversible for fireworks.

Yes, some people may work on Christmas Eve or Boxing Day, but by and large the vacationers hold more of the traffic and the lanes should be adjusted for them.

But again, clear schedule on the website for the changes.





Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.