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First Wikipedia article for a highway

Started by index, February 23, 2024, 03:17:22 PM

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index

After contributing images to several route articles on Wikipedia, and contributing here and there in other niches on the site under a few different accounts, I've finally decided to begin drafting an article for US 74A from Asheville to Forest City. I believe it could stand on its own as an article rather than just being in the special routes article. Similar ones for roads like  US 17A in South Carolina exist, for example.

Here is the draft. The forum software is gonna break the link by removing the parenthesis at the end from the actual link so look out for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:U.S._Route_74_Alternate_(Asheville%E2%80%93Forest_City)

Feel free to share any (constructive and polite) critique and/or other suggestions/tips.


LilianaUwU

Do it on the AARoads Wiki instead.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

Scott5114

Wikipedia is a hostile environment for road editors now—the bar of "notability" keeps rising and rising, to the point that you may face pretty long odds getting a mere bannered route accepted. These days, they basically demand that you have a bunch of newspaper articles on a route for an article to exist, and even then those may be deemed not good enough if they don't focus on the road enough. (How much is enough? More than you can actually find in the real world!) The site culture actually rewards people that delete articles over those that create them now.

Most of the roadgeeks on Wikipedia have decamped to the AARoads Wiki, which uses the same software, is content to allow just about every road article within reason, and has nicer maps. The policies are greatly pared back and only focus on the important stuff, so you won't get accused of violating WP:BYOP, WP:MONGO, WP:DEEF, and WP:FJORD every time you turn around. If you do Discord, we have a server that has a lot of overlap with the membership here as well as on the AARoads Wiki. All in all it's a much more chill, low-drama environment, one which I recommend over Wikipedia.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Max Rockatansky

Run as far as you can from Wikipedia.  AAroads is far more friendly grounds to get your feet wet making Wiki style road pages.

texaskdog

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2024, 05:37:22 PM
Wikipedia is a hostile environment for road editors now—the bar of "notability" keeps rising and rising, to the point that you may face pretty long odds getting a mere bannered route accepted. These days, they basically demand that you have a bunch of newspaper articles on a route for an article to exist, and even then those may be deemed not good enough if they don't focus on the road enough. (How much is enough? More than you can actually find in the real world!) The site culture actually rewards people that delete articles over those that create them now.

Most of the roadgeeks on Wikipedia have decamped to the AARoads Wiki, which uses the same software, is content to allow just about every road article within reason, and has nicer maps. The policies are greatly pared back and only focus on the important stuff, so you won't get accused of violating WP:BYOP, WP:MONGO, WP:DEEF, and WP:FJORD every time you turn around. If you do Discord, we have a server that has a lot of overlap with the membership here as well as on the AARoads Wiki. All in all it's a much more chill, low-drama environment, one which I recommend over Wikipedia.

The only way any of my article changes stick is when I quote a different wikipedia page and then they are okay with changes.

index

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2024, 05:37:22 PM
Wikipedia is a hostile environment for road editors now—the bar of "notability" keeps rising and rising, to the point that you may face pretty long odds getting a mere bannered route accepted. These days, they basically demand that you have a bunch of newspaper articles on a route for an article to exist, and even then those may be deemed not good enough if they don't focus on the road enough. (How much is enough? More than you can actually find in the real world!) The site culture actually rewards people that delete articles over those that create them now.

Most of the roadgeeks on Wikipedia have decamped to the AARoads Wiki, which uses the same software, is content to allow just about every road article within reason, and has nicer maps. The policies are greatly pared back and only focus on the important stuff, so you won't get accused of violating WP:BYOP, WP:MONGO, WP:DEEF, and WP:FJORD every time you turn around. If you do Discord, we have a server that has a lot of overlap with the membership here as well as on the AARoads Wiki. All in all it's a much more chill, low-drama environment, one which I recommend over Wikipedia.


Damn. I had no idea. That's both very disappointing and very stupid. I can see how an environment like that can easily make people feel all high and mighty about what they think should and shouldn't be on there.

KCRoadFan

Recently, I made a Wikipedia article for the forum itself - and it was promptly deleted.

freebrickproductions

Quote from: KCRoadFan on February 26, 2024, 08:21:07 PM
Recently, I made a Wikipedia article for the forum itself - and it was promptly deleted.

TBF, I'm not aware of AARoads, muchless this forum, ever having met Wikipedia's criteria for "notability", even before the latest round of bs.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

index

Here it is, after several months:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_74_Alternate_(Asheville%E2%80%93Forest_City,_North_Carolina)

I feel like I did a decent job. Does anyone have any suggestions or improvements?

Scott5114

#9
Quote from: index on September 12, 2024, 08:49:25 AMHere it is, after several months:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_74_Alternate_(Asheville%E2%80%93Forest_City,_North_Carolina)

I feel like I did a decent job. Does anyone have any suggestions or improvements?

As mentioned above, my suggestion is to post it to https://wiki.aaroads.com instead of the stupid wiki run by stupid people. The road article deletions have started in Europe.

Unless you know your DEEF and your MONGO forward and backward, I guess.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

vdeane

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 12, 2024, 11:10:39 AMThe road article deletions have started in Europe.
Hopefully they can take care of the US soon so that people will stop defaulting to Wikipedia (and so that Google will correctly rank the AARoads wiki articles and not Wikipedia's).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

WillWeaverRVA

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 12, 2024, 11:10:39 AM
Quote from: index on September 12, 2024, 08:49:25 AMHere it is, after several months:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_74_Alternate_(Asheville%E2%80%93Forest_City,_North_Carolina)

I feel like I did a decent job. Does anyone have any suggestions or improvements?

As mentioned above, my suggestion is to post it to https://wiki.aaroads.com instead of the stupid wiki run by stupid people. The road article deletions have started in Europe.

Unless you know your DEEF and your MONGO forward and backward, I guess.

I really need to remember how to do all the stuff I used to do over on Wikipedia so I can maybe actually make some edits on the AARoads wiki.
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

74/171FAN

Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on September 12, 2024, 03:16:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 12, 2024, 11:10:39 AM
Quote from: index on September 12, 2024, 08:49:25 AMHere it is, after several months:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_74_Alternate_(Asheville%E2%80%93Forest_City,_North_Carolina)

I feel like I did a decent job. Does anyone have any suggestions or improvements?

As mentioned above, my suggestion is to post it to https://wiki.aaroads.com instead of the stupid wiki run by stupid people. The road article deletions have started in Europe.

Unless you know your DEEF and your MONGO forward and backward, I guess.

I really need to remember how to do all the stuff I used to do over on Wikipedia so I can maybe actually make some edits on the AARoads wiki.

There is plenty of info still to add on the List of primary state highways in Virginia listicle to start.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?units=miles&u=markkos1992
Mob-Rule:  https://mob-rule.com/user/markkos1992

WillWeaverRVA

Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 12, 2024, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on September 12, 2024, 03:16:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 12, 2024, 11:10:39 AM
Quote from: index on September 12, 2024, 08:49:25 AMHere it is, after several months:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_74_Alternate_(Asheville%E2%80%93Forest_City,_North_Carolina)

I feel like I did a decent job. Does anyone have any suggestions or improvements?

As mentioned above, my suggestion is to post it to https://wiki.aaroads.com instead of the stupid wiki run by stupid people. The road article deletions have started in Europe.

Unless you know your DEEF and your MONGO forward and backward, I guess.

I really need to remember how to do all the stuff I used to do over on Wikipedia so I can maybe actually make some edits on the AARoads wiki.

There is plenty of info still to add on the List of primary state highways in Virginia listicle to start.

Yup, I know. I've had my eye on it for a while.
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

index

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 12, 2024, 11:10:39 AM
Quote from: index on September 12, 2024, 08:49:25 AMHere it is, after several months:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_74_Alternate_(Asheville%E2%80%93Forest_City,_North_Carolina)

I feel like I did a decent job. Does anyone have any suggestions or improvements?

As mentioned above, my suggestion is to post it to https://wiki.aaroads.com instead of the stupid wiki run by stupid people. The road article deletions have started in Europe.

Unless you know your DEEF and your MONGO forward and backward, I guess.

I intend on doing that at a later point. I've had the article saved locally for when I do, and if it gets deleted. For now, it's there, I prioritized that since it will get more exposure.

rschen7754

https://wiki.aaroads.com/wiki/User:Rschen7754/The_time_is_now details a lot of the latest developments about how the English Wikipedia has turned against the road editors.

Max Rockatansky

#16
I had to explain the whole anti-road thing Wikipedia is on right now to my wife at the Reno Road Meet.  That was a hot topic of discussion among the group at the starting meetup lunch. 

Her normal person perspective was that "Wikipedia sounds stupid and full of arrogant assholes."  That to the point synopsis got a laugh out of me.

vdeane

Quote from: rschen7754 on October 04, 2024, 02:39:02 PMhttps://wiki.aaroads.com/wiki/User:Rschen7754/The_time_is_now details a lot of the latest developments about how the English Wikipedia has turned against the road editors.
I was wondering why Google searches of road content always yielded Wikipedia instead of the AARW.  And the fact that people suddenly have become very interested in posting here about when every road change is reflected in Wikipedia has surely not helped.  It might be a bit drastic, but given how bad the situation is, perhaps we need a forum rule on that?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Scott5114

#18
Quote from: vdeane on October 04, 2024, 09:53:05 PM
Quote from: rschen7754 on October 04, 2024, 02:39:02 PMhttps://wiki.aaroads.com/wiki/User:Rschen7754/The_time_is_now details a lot of the latest developments about how the English Wikipedia has turned against the road editors.
I was wondering why Google searches of road content always yielded Wikipedia instead of the AARW.  And the fact that people suddenly have become very interested in posting here about when every road change is reflected in Wikipedia has surely not helped.  It might be a bit drastic, but given how bad the situation is, perhaps we need a forum rule on that?

Eventually, if things go on the way they have, enough content will get deleted from Wikipedia that Google will have no choice but to return AARW results.

Although it would be in our best interest to keep links in-house, I'm reluctant to make it a rule because 1) some people still may not know AARW even exists and 2) it seems fairly authoritarian—theoretically a Wikipedia article could develop in a different direction from the AARW one and someone could legitimately prefer the Wikipedia version, as much as those of us on AARW may not like it.

I think the proper response is to just reply to anyone using Wikipedia links with an advertisement for AARW. People should learn eventually.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Max Rockatansky

It probably depends on the criteria used by the search engine.  The Gribblenation blog page doesn't appear in searches in Yahoo searches unless you go for something super specific that nobody else covers.  That stands to reason given we are hosted by Google.  I would imagine Google probably has something in their algorithm that highly emphasizes Wikipedia over other similar Wiki pages.

Scott5114

The basic way that Google works is that the more domains that link to your domain, the higher the page rank is. There's a bunch more variables but that's the most important function.

Obviously, Wikipedia gets more links to it than AARoads does, so it will outrank AARW by default. (But we have more of a fighting chance being on AARoads than if we had started a new site like "roads.wiki" or something that would be starting out with zero links.)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2024, 08:39:12 AMIt probably depends on the criteria used by the search engine.  The Gribblenation blog page doesn't appear in searches in Yahoo searches unless you go for something super specific that nobody else covers.  That stands to reason given we are hosted by Google.  I would imagine Google probably has something in their algorithm that highly emphasizes Wikipedia over other similar Wiki pages.

*Googles Yahoo!*
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

CtrlAltDel

I thought that this thread would be about the first article on a road ever published on the Wikipedia, and I'm curious as to what that would be. Does anyone know?
I-290   I-294   I-55   (I-74)   (I-72)   I-40   I-30   US-59   US-190   TX-30   TX-6

Scott5114

This is for a deletion discussion for a city street in Adelaide, Australia, but the exact same arguments are used on highway articles. This is an example of the sort of thinking that led to the AARoads wiki being founded.

QuoteDelete None of the sources at the article such as street directories and Google maps establish notability. The sources presented here amount to routine, local coverage of news such as apartments being built along the road or pedestrian crossing improvements in Adelaide which lists this road amongst many roads to be upgraded. Local roads like this must meet WP:GNG which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." Keep rationales with comments such as "The article has existed for over six years with no concern" or "Keep article as per norm" should be disregarded by closing admin as completely at odds with good-faith discussion of notability. AusLondonder (talk) 16:16, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Delete. Map overlays do absolutely nothing for notability as they are not secondary sources, and maps from the owner of the road itself are additionally not independent. Passing mentions in local news are also nowhere near sufficient for GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 00:06, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

rschen7754

I will say this. I would be in favor of deleting a lot of city street articles, just because usually all the sources talk about buildings or famous people on that street and not the street itself. Usually the worst offenders are the UK and Australia. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addison_Road,_London that I nominated last year.

What frustrated me about that particular AFD that was mentioned was that it was being kept for the wrong reasons (inertia and passing mentions) while state and provincial highways are getting nominated, and some are actually being deleted. But it certainly demonstrates that there is anti-road vitriol out there, usually those people don't make the distinction between city streets and state highways.



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