New Oklahoma City Skyscraper

[jgb191]

Anybody know what skyscraper replaced the Alfred Murrah building (that was destroyed in 1995)?


According to 2022, Oklahoma City has almost 700K people, compared to Boston (650K), Las Vegas (660K), Washington (670K), Detroit (620K), Baltimore (570K), and Atlanta (497K).

Oklahoma City is larger than World-class cities like Detroit and Atlanta, so yeah I would believe you if you told me that OKC is a major city by now.  Last time I was in OKC was almost a quarter-century ago, and surely it has grown by lots since this century began.

[triplemultiplex]

The site of the Murrah building is a memorial so the answer to your first question is 'none'.

OKC's city limits population is deceiving because it's geographically large.  Better to look at its MSA population which is about 1.4 million making it the 42nd largest 'city' in the US.
Compare that to
Boston: 4.9 million
Las Vegas: 2.3 million
Washington: 6.3 million
Detroit: 4.3 million
Baltimore: 2.8 million
Atlanta: 6.3 million

So OKC is still a "small" city in this context.

[JayhawkCO]

Oklahoma City is larger than World-class cities like Detroit and Atlanta

I think this is the first time in about 40 years someone has called Detroit "world-class".

[Scott5114]

Just as long as he doesn't manage to hoodwink the city out of TIF money with this nonsense.

[CtrlAltDel]

The site of the Murrah building is a memorial so the answer to your first question is 'none'.

A new federal building was built on a different site, though:

[bugo]

Not going to happen, just like that pie in the sky amusement park in Vinita. The sad thing is that the marks and drones on Facebook are eating it up and insisting it will be built and it will be a success. It won't be built because it doesn't make financial sense.

[Bobby5280]

I'm still pretty suspicious about the whole project.

The only portions of it I would expect to see completed is the stuff they talk about in "Phase 1." A pair of 23 story towers, a 22 story Hyatt Dream Hotel and the ground-level Boardwalk at Bricktown stuff.

The 1907 foot tall skyscraper would be added later. But that's not something you just "add on" to an existing development. 1907 feet is just over one third of a mile tall. A skyscraper that tall would need one hell of a serious foundation. It would be a very delicate operation trying to excavate that in the midst of some brand new buildings.

And then there is the nature of the visual proposals. The skyscraper design looks pretty damned bland to me. The smaller buildings and stuff at ground level look kind of tacky. I can't help but feel a vibe the proposal was quickly thrown together. It's either that or some ego-driven money people made a bunch of design decisions and the architects tried hammering it out in whatever manner they could. The effort doesn't seem as professional as other major skyscraper projects elsewhere in the world.

Given the winds and weather in Oklahoma, I'm surprised the tall tower didn't incorporate a triangular profile shape like the Burj Khalifa in Dubai or Kingdom Tower in Jeddah. The tower proposed for OKC has a pretty flat looking profile that faces North-South. That's going to make for a great wind target. The same illustration they've been showing over and over again in news stories could very well be just some basic concept drawing Photoshopped into the OKC landscape. We may never see a final design that is stamped by a team of structural engineers.

[GaryV]

The 1907 foot tall skyscraper would be added later.

Like the Fisher Building in Detroit. It's one of 3 towers (30, 60 and 30 stories) originally planned. The Depression got in the way. 96 years later, it's still one 30-story building.

[roadman65]

Saw that the Oklahoma City Skyline is getting it's first building to be as tall as One World Trade Center in New York.

Does OKC want to really compete with the big cities like this?
https://www.kosu.org/local-news/2024-05-28/plans-for-nations-tallest-building-would-transform-oklahoma-city-but-residents-are-skeptical

[webny99]

To put it mildly, there's a whole lot more that goes into being "like NYC" than just one skyscraper or even an entire skyline, many aspects of which OKC will never be able to compete with due to location alone.

[Big John]

skyscraper thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=34751.0

[Scott5114]

Does OKC want to really compete with the big cities like this?

First time in OKC, eh?

[Road Hog]

OKC is not exactly known for its bedrock like Manhattan is. Good luck with your Tower of Babbel. Maybe we'll understand you afterward.

[Bobby5280]

OKC is not exactly known for its bedrock like Manhattan is. Good luck with your Tower of Babbel. Maybe we'll understand you afterward.

Every place has bedrock. A high rise skyscraper's foundation (such as that of Devon Tower) just has to be dug deep enough to tie into it. The red clay soil in much of Oklahoma tends to make a bigger impact on things built at the surface. Slab foundations in schools, commercial buildings and big homes can be badly affected. Obviously streets and highways are vulnerable unless the grading work is done properly.

It's not like we have to worry about this nearly 2000' tower ever being built. I'm ever more convinced it's a pipe dream. The design of the tower is unremarkably bland looking, almost like it's a piece of architectural clip art quickly thrown together as a place holder for something more professional looking to be designed later.

I'm even a bit skeptical the smaller buildings and plaza closer to grade will get built at all. America's commercial real estate industry is looking like it's in very deep trouble. The same goes for the residential real estate market. Institutional property buyers have found themselves loaded down with properties they can't sell or rent out for the money they want. Property taxes and interest payments on the money they borrowed to buy that stuff could hit their balance sheets hard. That's not going to leave a lot of money left over to build things like an obnoxiously tall high rise tower in OKC.

[bing101]

Anybody know what skyscraper replaced the Alfred Murrah building (that was destroyed in 1995)?


According to 2022, Oklahoma City has almost 700K people, compared to Boston (650K), Las Vegas (660K), Washington (670K), Detroit (620K), Baltimore (570K), and Atlanta (497K).

Oklahoma City is larger than World-class cities like Detroit and Atlanta, so yeah I would believe you if you told me that OKC is a major city by now.  Last time I was in OKC was almost a quarter-century ago, and surely it has grown by lots since this century began.

Dang Oklahoma City would have the same amount of people as Hempstead, NY and San Francisco if you are only counting city propers. 

[Rothman]

Anybody know what skyscraper replaced the Alfred Murrah building (that was destroyed in 1995)?


According to 2022, Oklahoma City has almost 700K people, compared to Boston (650K), Las Vegas (660K), Washington (670K), Detroit (620K), Baltimore (570K), and Atlanta (497K).

Oklahoma City is larger than World-class cities like Detroit and Atlanta, so yeah I would believe you if you told me that OKC is a major city by now.  Last time I was in OKC was almost a quarter-century ago, and surely it has grown by lots since this century began.

Dang Oklahoma City would have the same amount of people as Hempstead, NY and San Francisco if you are only counting city propers.

Its MSA is also considerably smaller than like-sized city propers.

[Scott5114]

It would be hard to find a pair of municipalities that would be more misleading to compare than Las Vegas proper and Oklahoma City proper, considering the City of Las Vegas famously doesn't include such things as the major economic engine driving the metropolitan area whereas Oklahoma City proper includes everything surrounding it that doesn't move and some things that do.

[bing101]

It would be hard to find a pair of municipalities that would be more misleading to compare than Las Vegas proper and Oklahoma City proper, considering the City of Las Vegas famously doesn't include such things as the major economic engine driving the metropolitan area whereas Oklahoma City proper includes everything surrounding it that doesn't move and some things that do.

True too.

[ET21]

Can't wait if they eventually build it and then all the windows get blown out by baseball size hail or a tornado.

[mgk920]

Can't wait if they eventually build it and then all the windows get blown out by baseball size hail or a tornado.

I was just thinking the same thing - "Then the EF 5 tornado hits . . . "

Mike

[Plutonic Panda]

Is the tornado thing real or satire? Assuming this building gets built, how could this seriously be a concern? When was the last time downtown? Oklahoma City was directly struck by a tornado? Wasn't there a fairly tall building that was directly hit by a tornado in both Fort Worth and Waco and none of them fell down? I'm sure if this building is actually constructed with modern engineering it could take a direct hit and not collapse.

Out of all the things, one could think of why this building won't be constructed, People think tornadoes would be the reason why? Seriously?

[triplemultiplex]

Yeah the tornado thing is clearly tongue-in-cheek.
This building isn't going to happen because the market won't allow it to ever be profitable.  End of analysis.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, you're probably right. This building won't happen but just because the market isn't therefore it doesn't mean it won't happen. It's not like vanity projects haven't been built before. If the developer has enough money and just wants to prove the world that he has a big penis then why wouldn't he build it?

[Scott5114]

Well, you're probably right. This building won't happen but just because the market isn't therefore it doesn't mean it won't happen. It's not like vanity projects haven't been built before. If the developer has enough money and just wants to prove the world that he has a big penis then why wouldn't he build it?

The amount of money needed for a project like this normally exceeds the amount that's available to those who would spend it on vanity projects.

Also, the sorts of people who build vanity projects probably wouldn't put them in Oklahoma City of all places.

[Bobby5280]

The usual locations for super tall skyscrapers to be built are growing ever less friendly to new ones being constructed.

In New York City building a new super tall tower would be an especially complicated and costly situation. The developer has to negotiate and buy up sky rights from surrounding property owners. He has to deal with lots of regulations and demands from the city government. Aside from the red tape, the island of Manhattan presents some very serious engineering challenges. There are layers upon layers of existing infrastructure going well underground. The island itself is slowly sinking, thanks in part to the sheer amount of stuff built on it. Construction costs are much higher, partly since living costs are so extremely high there. Add to that a worsening office real estate vacancy situation, floating around 20%.

Oklahoma City is a somewhat untapped market for skyscraper building. The OKC administration already gave its approval. Living costs in OKC aren't nearly as bad as they are in so many other cities across the nation (even cities in Texas).

While this developer might be gambling on attracting office space tenants from higher cost cities, I still don't think the financial math adds up on the entire effort. A nearly 2000' tall skyscraper in OKC just doesn't seem feasible. Especially now, with what's going on both residential and commercial real estate markets. Can't build something extreme like that in a market bubble that's fixing to pop (or starting to pop already).