Car repair shops turning away jobs over ‘financial restraints,’ costly tech

Started by ZLoth, November 09, 2024, 04:54:06 PM

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jeffandnicole

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 12, 2024, 12:05:31 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 10, 2024, 10:08:23 AMThere's really nothing the Feds can do since they're in charge of making sure vehicles maintain minimum safety standards, not how the car should be built and maintained.

They are in charge of maintaining competitive business practices, however. If the car manufacturers are intentionally engineering cars to only be serviced by dealers, that would be something they could regulate under antitrust law.

Not that I expect that to actually happen after this past Tuesday, but still.

I believe the only vehicle manufacturer that does that currently is Tesla. Just inform Elon that he can't do that... (haha)

In reality though, many repairs are quite routine - tires, oils, etc that most places can do without issue. Dealerships won't be able to handle the volume of all repairs though, inlcuding with more sophisticated equipment. They could always work with repair shops to be "certified" or "authorized" repair shops that have the equipment and training to deal with their vehicles.


Scott5114

Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 12, 2024, 12:21:11 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 12, 2024, 12:05:31 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 10, 2024, 10:08:23 AMThere's really nothing the Feds can do since they're in charge of making sure vehicles maintain minimum safety standards, not how the car should be built and maintained.

They are in charge of maintaining competitive business practices, however. If the car manufacturers are intentionally engineering cars to only be serviced by dealers, that would be something they could regulate under antitrust law.

Not that I expect that to actually happen after this past Tuesday, but still.

I believe the only vehicle manufacturer that does that currently is Tesla. Just inform Elon that he can't do that... (haha)

Well, yeah, he's sucking up to the President-Elect of the United States, so he can do no wrong in the eyes of our government now. He's certainly not going to be legislated against in the next four years. In my opinion, that shouldn't be how it is, but this is America: it's about who you know and how much money you have, not about anything like fairness or whether something is a good idea or not.

In retrospect—and this is not a political opinion, because it was an opinion I've shared years before Musk was involved in politics—the best part of this election cycle was seeing the Governor of Minnesota calling Elon Musk a dipshit.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kalvado

Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 12, 2024, 12:21:11 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 12, 2024, 12:05:31 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 10, 2024, 10:08:23 AMThere's really nothing the Feds can do since they're in charge of making sure vehicles maintain minimum safety standards, not how the car should be built and maintained.

They are in charge of maintaining competitive business practices, however. If the car manufacturers are intentionally engineering cars to only be serviced by dealers, that would be something they could regulate under antitrust law.

Not that I expect that to actually happen after this past Tuesday, but still.

I believe the only vehicle manufacturer that does that currently is Tesla. Just inform Elon that he can't do that... (haha)
t-Elect of the United States, so he can do no wrong in the eyes of our government now. He's certainly not going to be legislated against in the next four years. In my opinion, that shouldn't be how it is, but this is America: it's about who you know and how much money you have, not about anything like fairness or whether so
In reality though, many repairs are quite routine - tires, oils, etc that most places can do without issue. Dealerships won't be able to handle the volume of all repairs though, inlcuding with more sophisticated equipment. They could always work with repair shops to be "certified" or "authorized" repair shops that have the equipment and training to deal with their vehicles.

Back in the day, just before covid, I happened to be at a presentation given by a big shot from Google - VP for research if I remember correctly?
One of the big points he made is that with more reliable product (he was specifically talking phones, but I assume cars are on a same page), manufacturer has to be able to collect payments during the service life of the product to justify extending service life. (and we need longer life for environmental reasons, etc etc). Hence desire to move from one-time buy to subscription service.
I can easily see cars and repair services seeing similar trend.  Spares is one of big sources of income for OEM as well.

So I can see an argument made to lawmakers and public - more open repair rules would lead to higher prices, shorter lifetime, and after all is bad for general public.

 

Scott5114

Quote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 05:05:45 PMOne of the big points he made is that with more reliable product (he was specifically talking phones, but I assume cars are on a same page), manufacturer has to be able to collect payments during the service life of the product to justify extending service life.

The manufacturer doesn't have to be able to collect payments for the service life of the product. They want to be able to collect payments for the service life of the product.

My wife has had the same LG washer and dryer since before I met her. She's had them so long that she bought them from the Sears in Norman, back when Norman had a Sears. They're currently in storage here in Las Vegas, awaiting installation in the house we end up buying here. We don't pay LG anything for the washer and dryer, and last I checked LG was still a $62 billion company.

For most of the 20th century, reliability was considered a good thing in a product because it built brand loyalty. That only went out the window when companies started uniformly being run by greedy sons of bitches.
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hbelkins

When my Saturn Vue was still running (and I still hold out hope it can be resurrected), it would tell me when it needed an oil change. There's an oil life sensor in it that takes mileage into consideration, but it's not the only factor. Generally, I'd be reminded that I needed to have an oil change every 10-12,000 miles. Meanwhile Valvoline Instant Oil Change (where I had all my oil changes done) would send me a postcard every three months reminding me that I was due for an oil change and giving me a coupon to entice me to come in.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

kalvado

Quote from: hbelkins on November 12, 2024, 08:19:08 PMWhen my Saturn Vue was still running (and I still hold out hope it can be resurrected), it would tell me when it needed an oil change. There's an oil life sensor in it that takes mileage into consideration, but it's not the only factor. Generally, I'd be reminded that I needed to have an oil change every 10-12,000 miles. Meanwhile Valvoline Instant Oil Change (where I had all my oil changes done) would send me a postcard every three months reminding me that I was due for an oil change and giving me a coupon to entice me to come in.
An interesting question is if there is actually a sensor. As far as I understand, a different brand has some calculations based on mileage, trip length, weather, and maybe something else. That's why a manual reset is done after oil change.

SSOWorld

Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 12, 2024, 12:21:11 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 12, 2024, 12:05:31 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 10, 2024, 10:08:23 AMThere's really nothing the Feds can do since they're in charge of making sure vehicles maintain minimum safety standards, not how the car should be built and maintained.

They are in charge of maintaining competitive business practices, however. If the car manufacturers are intentionally engineering cars to only be serviced by dealers, that would be something they could regulate under antitrust law.

Not that I expect that to actually happen after this past Tuesday, but still.

I believe the only vehicle manufacturer that does that currently is Tesla. Just inform Elon that he can't do that... (haha)
You're speaking of the future head of this new department?

Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

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kalvado

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 12, 2024, 07:36:37 PM
Quote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 05:05:45 PMOne of the big points he made is that with more reliable product (he was specifically talking phones, but I assume cars are on a same page), manufacturer has to be able to collect payments during the service life of the product to justify extending service life.

The manufacturer doesn't have to be able to collect payments for the service life of the product. They want to be able to collect payments for the service life of the product.

My wife has had the same LG washer and dryer since before I met her. She's had them so long that she bought them from the Sears in Norman, back when Norman had a Sears. They're currently in storage here in Las Vegas, awaiting installation in the house we end up buying here. We don't pay LG anything for the washer and dryer, and last I checked LG was still a $62 billion company.

For most of the 20th century, reliability was considered a good thing in a product because it built brand loyalty. That only went out the window when companies started uniformly being run by greedy sons of bitches.
And a point would be made that washer and dryer do not need too much support - unlike phones and cars, where software updates and spares are a long term (costly) obligation..

Scott5114

Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 08:36:39 AMAnd a point would be made that washer and dryer do not need too much support - unlike phones and cars, where software updates and spares are a long term (costly) obligation..

If you made a car in such a way that its software needs to be updated, that means you are bad at writing software. Learn to use gdb and try again.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

hotdogPi

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2024, 09:35:23 AMIf you made a car in such a way that its software needs to be updated, that means you are bad at writing software. Learn to use gdb and try again.

Why is this? I use Python, and I very frequently encounter things that work in some of 3.9, 3.10, 3.11, and 3.12, but not all of them. (3.13 is out now, but I haven't used it yet.)

I imagine the same would be the same with every C++ version, although slightly less since they update every 3 years instead of every 1.

Plus even ignoring programming languages — Massachusetts exit number changes, new roundabouts, etc. if there's a GPS built into the car.
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wanderer2575

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 12, 2024, 12:05:31 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 10, 2024, 10:08:23 AMThere's really nothing the Feds can do since they're in charge of making sure vehicles maintain minimum safety standards, not how the car should be built and maintained.

They are in charge of maintaining competitive business practices, however. If the car manufacturers are intentionally engineering cars to only be serviced by dealers, that would be something they could regulate under antitrust law.

Not that I expect that to actually happen after this past Tuesday, but still.

Maybe, maybe not, any particular presidential administration notwithstanding.  John Deere was fighting a right-to-repair movement for years before settling with the Federal Trade Commission, and I'm guessing they settled only because its bean counters said it had reached the point where settling was the least costly option.  Even so, right-to-repair doesn't mean the manufacturer has to do anything to make repairs easier for the equipment owner.

GaryV

Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 08:36:39 AMAnd a point would be made that washer and dryer do not need too much support - unlike phones and cars, where software updates and spares are a long term (costly) obligation

With all these "smart" appliances these days ...

I'm not sure why I want my washing machine to text me when my load is done. If I'm too busy to do something about it when the washer signals, I'll eventually get to it. I don't need a reminder.


kalvado

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2024, 09:35:23 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 08:36:39 AMAnd a point would be made that washer and dryer do not need too much support - unlike phones and cars, where software updates and spares are a long term (costly) obligation..

If you made a car in such a way that its software needs to be updated, that means you are bad at writing software. Learn to use gdb and try again.
Look up history of Toyota unintended accelerations... Look up what Boeing did with 737...

kalvado

Quote from: GaryV on November 13, 2024, 09:47:45 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 08:36:39 AMAnd a point would be made that washer and dryer do not need too much support - unlike phones and cars, where software updates and spares are a long term (costly) obligation

With all these "smart" appliances these days ...

I'm not sure why I want my washing machine to text me when my load is done. If I'm too busy to do something about it when the washer signals, I'll eventually get to it. I don't need a reminder.


Scott was referring to his old set, without too much extra features.
I am sure modern ones would try to collect as much subscription money as possible.  One of the reasons we turned down otherwise best on the market Bosch dishwasher.

Scott5114

Quote from: hotdogPi on November 13, 2024, 09:39:38 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2024, 09:35:23 AMIf you made a car in such a way that its software needs to be updated, that means you are bad at writing software. Learn to use gdb and try again.

Why is this? I use Python, and I very frequently encounter things that work in some of 3.9, 3.10, 3.11, and 3.12, but not all of them. (3.13 is out now, but I haven't used it yet.)

I imagine the same would be the same with every C++ version, although slightly less since they update every 3 years instead of every 1.

This is one reason I won't use Python and why I curse PHP every time I have to use it. Python is an interpreted language, meaning there is a program that reads in the source code directly and converts it to machine instructions at runtime. This means that if the interpreter changes, it will break old code. (Note that this is not a guaranteed feature of an interpreted language; Perl is an interpreted language as well and I believe that it hasn't had a code-breaking change since the early 1990s.)

C and C++ are compiled languages, meaning that the programmer runs the code through a program called a compiler, which converts the source code to a series of machine instructions that are stores as a binary file (on Windows, this will be a file with the .exe extension). The binary then runs directly with no interpreter in the background, which is more efficient and uses less resources. Since there is no need for the code to be intepreted, normally just the binaries are distributed. The binaries will, theoretically, always work so long as it's hosted on a compatible processor and the correct version of any library files used are available (on Windows this is normally handled by just having copies of the correct version of any library files in the same directory as the EXE). The downsides of this is that any change to the code requires running the compiler again, debugging requires special tools like gdb to "see inside" the program, and also that it is easy to obscure how a program works by just not distributing the source code.

Of course, since the compiler is the one who rules what is and is valid language, I can write code in C89 if I really want to, and so long as I use a compiler from 1989, or one that has a switch that causes it to accept C89, I can generate brand new binaries that will run perfectly fine despite using code that's 35 years out of date, and nobody will be any the wiser. (There are reasons why this is probably not a great idea, but they mostly have to do with it being a pain in the ass on the programmer's end rather than it not being able to run on users' machines.)

Visual Basic is, incredibly, a compiled language, and I have a few silly VB6 programs I wrote in 2005 that will still run just fine on Windows.

This whole "you get to waste the afternoon debugging code that worked perfectly fine last week because the interpreter devs got a wild hair to change how the if statement works" stuff is a comparatively new, and particularly stupid, phenomenon. And it bites you in the ass even if you're not the dev—I have an Inkscape plugin that I depend on for my job that's currently broken because there's some bullshit going on with my Python version that I don't know how to resolve. As a workaround I've just been using my laptop and scrupulously not updating Python.

If someone is actually running interpreted code on an embedded system like a car, we should use that car to drive them 19 miles south of Battle Mountain and drop them off there without a ride back. Not only is it inefficient in a way that is impractical in a resource-limited system, it is also not secure because changing the code is a matter of editing a text file (modifying a compiled binary is possible, but it is extremely difficult, since you are more or less tweaking individual low-level processor instructions at that point).

Quote from: hotdogPi on November 13, 2024, 09:39:38 AMPlus even ignoring programming languages — Massachusetts exit number changes, new roundabouts, etc. if there's a GPS built into the car.

This is why I don't have a GPS built into my car. I don't want the car managing that.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kalvado

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2024, 12:09:56 PM
Quote from: hotdogPi on November 13, 2024, 09:39:38 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2024, 09:35:23 AMIf you made a car in such a way that its software needs to be updated, that means you are bad at writing software. Learn to use gdb and try again.

Why is this? I use Python, and I very frequently encounter things that work in some of 3.9, 3.10, 3.11, and 3.12, but not all of them. (3.13 is out now, but I haven't used it yet.)

I imagine the same would be the same with every C++ version, although slightly less since they update every 3 years instead of every 1.

This is one reason I won't use Python and why I curse PHP every time I have to use it. Python is an interpreted language, meaning there is a program that reads in the source code directly and converts it to machine instructions at runtime. This means that if the interpreter changes, it will break old code. (Note that this is not a guaranteed feature of an interpreted language; Perl is an interpreted language as well and I believe that it hasn't had a code-breaking change since the early 1990s.)

C and C++ are compiled languages, meaning that the programmer runs the code through a program called a compiler, which converts the source code to a series of machine instructions that are stores as a binary file (on Windows, this will be a file with the .exe extension). The binary then runs directly with no interpreter in the background, which is more efficient and uses less resources. Since there is no need for the code to be intepreted, normally just the binaries are distributed. The binaries will, theoretically, always work so long as it's hosted on a compatible processor and the correct version of any library files used are available (on Windows this is normally handled by just having copies of the correct version of any library files in the same directory as the EXE). The downsides of this is that any change to the code requires running the compiler again, debugging requires special tools like gdb to "see inside" the program, and also that it is easy to obscure how a program works by just not distributing the source code.

Of course, since the compiler is the one who rules what is and is valid language, I can write code in C89 if I really want to, and so long as I use a compiler from 1989, or one that has a switch that causes it to accept C89, I can generate brand new binaries that will run perfectly fine despite using code that's 35 years out of date, and nobody will be any the wiser. (There are reasons why this is probably not a great idea, but they mostly have to do with it being a pain in the ass on the programmer's end rather than it not being able to run on users' machines.)

Visual Basic is, incredibly, a compiled language, and I have a few silly VB6 programs I wrote in 2005 that will still run just fine on Windows.

This whole "you get to waste the afternoon debugging code that worked perfectly fine last week because the interpreter devs got a wild hair to change how the if statement works" stuff is a comparatively new, and particularly stupid, phenomenon. And it bites you in the ass even if you're not the dev—I have an Inkscape plugin that I depend on for my job that's currently broken because there's some bullshit going on with my Python version that I don't know how to resolve. As a workaround I've just been using my laptop and scrupulously not updating Python.

If someone is actually running interpreted code on an embedded system like a car, we should use that car to drive them 19 miles south of Battle Mountain and drop them off there without a ride back. Not only is it inefficient in a way that is impractical in a resource-limited system, it is also not secure because changing the code is a matter of editing a text file (modifying a compiled binary is possible, but it is extremely difficult, since you are more or less tweaking individual low-level processor instructions at that point).

Quote from: hotdogPi on November 13, 2024, 09:39:38 AMPlus even ignoring programming languages — Massachusetts exit number changes, new roundabouts, etc. if there's a GPS built into the car.

This is why I don't have a GPS built into my car. I don't want the car managing that.
In an unexpected twist of events, US government strongly recommends not to use C or C++ any more.

Scott5114

Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 01:20:20 PMIn an unexpected twist of events, US government strongly recommends not to use C or C++ any more.

Yes, because C/C++ do not do anything to stop you from accessing memory you shouldn't. Suppose you have an array of ten items, which in C would be numbered item[0] through item[9] and stored in consecutive memory cells.* But if you have a brain fart and, thinking "I have ten items", try to access item[10] (which is called a buffer overrun), it will happily serve up whatever happens to be in the cell next to item[9]. If that memory belongs to another program, this is called a segmentation fault and the OS should machinegun your process for it, but if that memory belongs to your program, then really anything can happen. And that presents a potential security issue.

This is traditionally handled by being a competent programmer and not accessing array indices that don't exist, but that is easier said than done. Newer languages manage memory automatically, which makes them less efficient, but it means that there are fewer potential mistakes a programmer can make. In a newer language, accessing the eleventh element of a ten-element array normally just results in memory being allocated for item[10] on the fly, and it will be treated like any other uninitialized variable would.

This has nothing to do with compiled vs. interpreted languages, mind you; Rust is an example of a newer compiled language that does dynamic memory management. Nor does it have anything to do with the frequency of breaking changes in interpreters; Perl also does dynamic memory management despite rarely making breaking changes.

*Array indices start at 0 because internally the array is handled as a pointer (which is a link to a memory address, much like a URL is a link to a Web page) to the first element of the array combined with an offset. So item[0] is "the element 0 items past the array pointer", item[1] is "the element 1 item past the pointer", and so on. (Incidentally, pointers are signified in C with a leading *, and this footnote about pointers also has a leading *.)

uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

J N Winkler

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 12, 2024, 12:05:31 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 10, 2024, 10:08:23 AMThere's really nothing the Feds can do since they're in charge of making sure vehicles maintain minimum safety standards, not how the car should be built and maintained.

They are in charge of maintaining competitive business practices, however. If the car manufacturers are intentionally engineering cars to only be serviced by dealers, that would be something they could regulate under antitrust law.

Not that I expect that to actually happen after this past Tuesday, but still.

There is also the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to serve as a check on automakers' cash grabs.  Among other things, it prohibits automakers from requiring that customers go to the dealer for routine maintenance.

Quote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 08:48:36 AMAnd does anyone have a more or less personal example of a repair actually needing dealership involvement?

I can see several aspects.

First is, of course, authentic parts needed to be OEM approved. FU Steve Jobs.

Second is more reliable overall construction, with little small repairs needed until the point where cars were previously junked anyway.

Third, a more complicated electronic control system where things require an engineer rather than mechanic to diagnose.

Any other aspects of it?

The family fleet includes vehicles that are 15, 19, and 30 years old.  Of the three, only the 15-year-old has been to a dealer for actual repair in the past decade (earlier this year, for replacement of front brake pads, and again several years ago to replace a blower switch that failed prematurely due to a slip-up in the manufacturer's supply chain management).  We do visit dealer parts departments maybe once a year for OEM parts.

In addition to the reasons cited for going to the dealer, some manufacturers require customers to go through their dealers to access specific defect repair programs.  One example is the one Toyota offered for the oil-burning 2AZ-FE four-cylinder engine (at one time the base engine for the Camry and several other models).  In order for Toyota to finance the repair, which I understand consisted of complete replacement of the short block, a Toyota dealer had to verify that the engine was below a certain age (in terms of years and miles) and perform a test to determine that it was burning oil at more than a designated minimum rate.  Customers who missed any these thresholds had to have the repair performed at their own expense and could elect to have third-party shops (which include some Toyota specialists) handle it.

Quote from: wriddle082 on November 11, 2024, 09:16:50 AMFast forward to today, and once I do finally need a new vehicle, I will be a bit scared.

I would absolutely hate to try shopping for a new vehicle right now.  It's less about the money and more about the fact the current technologies are trash.

*  Turbos will drive oil sludging.

*  Gasoline direct injection is a good way to leave deposits on intake valves.

*  Touchscreens are a pain to work with and still underappreciated as an accident driver.



Regarding oil change intervals, I do my own oil changes with Pennzoil Platinum full synthetic (which I prefer based on Sequence IIIG test results) and go by the manufacturer's recommended mileage intervals (3,000 miles for the Saturn, 5,000 miles for the Toyota) unless the vehicle has an oil life minder.  Only the Honda does and the intervals its OLM suggests are generally around 7,500 miles.

I don't use a time interval.  All of the vehicles have good air filtration and no defects in oil temperature management we aren't aware of, so as long as total base number remains above unity, the oil is good to go.  One vehicle had its last oil change on January 8, 2018.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

wriddle082

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 13, 2024, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 12, 2024, 12:05:31 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 10, 2024, 10:08:23 AMThere's really nothing the Feds can do since they're in charge of making sure vehicles maintain minimum safety standards, not how the car should be built and maintained.

They are in charge of maintaining competitive business practices, however. If the car manufacturers are intentionally engineering cars to only be serviced by dealers, that would be something they could regulate under antitrust law.

Not that I expect that to actually happen after this past Tuesday, but still.

There is also the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to serve as a check on automakers' cash grabs.  Among other things, it prohibits automakers from requiring that customers go to the dealer for routine maintenance.

Quote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 08:48:36 AMAnd does anyone have a more or less personal example of a repair actually needing dealership involvement?

I can see several aspects.

First is, of course, authentic parts needed to be OEM approved. FU Steve Jobs.

Second is more reliable overall construction, with little small repairs needed until the point where cars were previously junked anyway.

Third, a more complicated electronic control system where things require an engineer rather than mechanic to diagnose.

Any other aspects of it?

The family fleet includes vehicles that are 15, 19, and 30 years old.  Of the three, only the 15-year-old has been to a dealer for actual repair in the past decade (earlier this year, for replacement of front brake pads, and again several years ago to replace a blower switch that failed prematurely due to a slip-up in the manufacturer's supply chain management).  We do visit dealer parts departments maybe once a year for OEM parts.

In addition to the reasons cited for going to the dealer, some manufacturers require customers to go through their dealers to access specific defect repair programs.  One example is the one Toyota offered for the oil-burning 2AZ-FE four-cylinder engine (at one time the base engine for the Camry and several other models).  In order for Toyota to finance the repair, which I understand consisted of complete replacement of the short block, a Toyota dealer had to verify that the engine was below a certain age (in terms of years and miles) and perform a test to determine that it was burning oil at more than a designated minimum rate.  Customers who missed any these thresholds had to have the repair performed at their own expense and could elect to have third-party shops (which include some Toyota specialists) handle it.

Quote from: wriddle082 on November 11, 2024, 09:16:50 AMFast forward to today, and once I do finally need a new vehicle, I will be a bit scared.

I would absolutely hate to try shopping for a new vehicle right now.  It's less about the money and more about the fact the current technologies are trash.

*  Turbos will drive oil sludging.

*  Gasoline direct injection is a good way to leave deposits on intake valves.

*  Touchscreens are a pain to work with and still underappreciated as an accident driver.



Regarding oil change intervals, I do my own oil changes with Pennzoil Platinum full synthetic (which I prefer based on Sequence IIIG test results) and go by the manufacturer's recommended mileage intervals (3,000 miles for the Saturn, 5,000 miles for the Toyota) unless the vehicle has an oil life minder.  Only the Honda does and the intervals its OLM suggests are generally around 7,500 miles.

I don't use a time interval.  All of the vehicles have good air filtration and no defects in oil temperature management we aren't aware of, so as long as total base number remains above unity, the oil is good to go.  One vehicle had its last oil change on January 8, 2018.

I do all of my own oil changes in my nearly 20 year old truck, with Mobil 1 oil and Wix XP oil filters.  I can also do other routine services, including brakes, though I have not done them in some time (I did recently buy a better floor jack because I plan on trying to replace my shocks soon).

I feel like AutoZone, Advance, O'Reilly, and all manufacturers of aftermarket auto parts should have a stronger lobby to help keep the automakers in check.

kalvado

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2024, 02:40:35 PM
Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 01:20:20 PMIn an unexpected twist of events, US government strongly recommends not to use C or C++ any more.

Yes, because C/C++ do not do anything to stop you from accessing memory you shouldn't. Suppose you have an array of ten items, which in C would be numbered item[0] through item[9] and stored in consecutive memory cells.* But if you have a brain fart and, thinking "I have ten items", try to access item[10] (which is called a buffer overrun), it will happily serve up whatever happens to be in the cell next to item[9]. If that memory belongs to another program, this is called a segmentation fault and the OS should machinegun your process for it, but if that memory belongs to your program, then really anything can happen. And that presents a potential security issue.

This is traditionally handled by being a competent programmer and not accessing array indices that don't exist, but that is easier said than done. Newer languages manage memory automatically, which makes them less efficient, but it means that there are fewer potential mistakes a programmer can make. In a newer language, accessing the eleventh element of a ten-element array normally just results in memory being allocated for item[10] on the fly, and it will be treated like any other uninitialized variable would.

This has nothing to do with compiled vs. interpreted languages, mind you; Rust is an example of a newer compiled language that does dynamic memory management. Nor does it have anything to do with the frequency of breaking changes in interpreters; Perl also does dynamic memory management despite rarely making breaking changes.

*Array indices start at 0 because internally the array is handled as a pointer (which is a link to a memory address, much like a URL is a link to a Web page) to the first element of the array combined with an offset. So item[0] is "the element 0 items past the array pointer", item[1] is "the element 1 item past the pointer", and so on. (Incidentally, pointers are signified in C with a leading *, and this footnote about pointers also has a leading *.)


mov ax, 1
 lmsw ax

your move!

vdeane

Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2024, 08:57:10 AMIf you buy your tires from a place like Discount Tire, they do the rotate and balance for free as a part of buying the tires from them.  It takes maybe a half hour or so, depending on how busy they are.  Maybe Warren Tire has the same deal?
*checks recipt*
Yep, same deal.  Mount & Balance N/C - $0.00
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

1995hoo

Quote from: GaryV on November 13, 2024, 09:47:45 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 08:36:39 AMAnd a point would be made that washer and dryer do not need too much support - unlike phones and cars, where software updates and spares are a long term (costly) obligation

With all these "smart" appliances these days ...

I'm not sure why I want my washing machine to text me when my load is done. If I'm too busy to do something about it when the washer signals, I'll eventually get to it. I don't need a reminder.

I'd kind of like that feature because the washer is in a laundry closet downstairs and I can't hear the chime upstairs. As it is, I set a timer.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kalvado

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 19, 2024, 01:14:54 PM
Quote from: GaryV on November 13, 2024, 09:47:45 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 08:36:39 AMAnd a point would be made that washer and dryer do not need too much support - unlike phones and cars, where software updates and spares are a long term (costly) obligation

With all these "smart" appliances these days ...

I'm not sure why I want my washing machine to text me when my load is done. If I'm too busy to do something about it when the washer signals, I'll eventually get to it. I don't need a reminder.

I'd kind of like that feature because the washer is in a laundry closet downstairs and I can't hear the chime upstairs. As it is, I set a timer.

Problem is that manufacturers love to do that via their cloud instead of some local link. And once they decide to stop supporting the feature - or you have a local network issue - cool stuff is no more. That is, leaving privacy concerns aside (I just hope they don't store pictures of my dirty laundry... at least not yet), potentially a service life limiting thing for the appliance. 
As a bad example of such net-dependent feature, Bosch dishwashers do not set delayed wash from the panel - that is done via app and cloud only. There may be workarounds, but... Not that delayed wash is a show-stopper for me, but my better part is adamant that is a must-have one

J N Winkler

Quote from: vdeane on November 19, 2024, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2024, 08:57:10 AMIf you buy your tires from a place like Discount Tire, they do the rotate and balance for free as a part of buying the tires from them.  It takes maybe a half hour or so, depending on how busy they are.  Maybe Warren Tire has the same deal?

*checks recipt*

Yep, same deal.  Mount & Balance N/C - $0.00

The catch:  they won't touch your tires the instant they turn 10 years old.  (This is Discount Tire corporate policy, which was--untruthfully--explained to me as required by USDOT regulations.)
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

vdeane

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 19, 2024, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 19, 2024, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2024, 08:57:10 AMIf you buy your tires from a place like Discount Tire, they do the rotate and balance for free as a part of buying the tires from them.  It takes maybe a half hour or so, depending on how busy they are.  Maybe Warren Tire has the same deal?

*checks recipt*

Yep, same deal.  Mount & Balance N/C - $0.00

The catch:  they won't touch your tires the instant they turn 10 years old.  (This is Discount Tire corporate policy, which was--untruthfully--explained to me as required by USDOT regulations.)
Makes sense, given that dry rot doesn't care how much you drive.  The idea that some people are driving on decade-old tires is kinda terrifying. :-o

No idea what Warren Tire's policy is on that, but tires don't last me a decade, so I have no cause to find out.  Incidentally, it seems like all-weather tires do have a less smooth ride than all-season tires; having the new tires feel the same as the old tires did when something was wrong with them all the time will take getting used to.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



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