Car repair shops turning away jobs over ‘financial restraints,’ costly tech

Started by ZLoth, November 09, 2024, 04:54:06 PM

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wanderer2575

Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2024, 08:57:10 AMIf you buy your tires from a place like Discount Tire, they do the rotate and balance for free as a part of buying the tires from them.  It takes maybe a half hour or so, depending on how busy they are.

That's a complete change from the "4 Tires, $100" promotion they ran for quite awhile.  That included bare-bones tires and nothing else -- no installation, valve stems, balancing, tire disposal, rotation, or road hazard warranty.


mgk920

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 19, 2024, 01:14:54 PM
Quote from: GaryV on November 13, 2024, 09:47:45 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 08:36:39 AMAnd a point would be made that washer and dryer do not need too much support - unlike phones and cars, where software updates and spares are a long term (costly) obligation

With all these "smart" appliances these days ...

I'm not sure why I want my washing machine to text me when my load is done. If I'm too busy to do something about it when the washer signals, I'll eventually get to it. I don't need a reminder.

I'd kind of like that feature because the washer is in a laundry closet downstairs and I can't hear the chime upstairs. As it is, I set a timer.

Decent dimple 'old school' mechanical timers are über-cheap, too.

Mike

Takumi

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 19, 2024, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 19, 2024, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2024, 08:57:10 AMIf you buy your tires from a place like Discount Tire, they do the rotate and balance for free as a part of buying the tires from them.  It takes maybe a half hour or so, depending on how busy they are.  Maybe Warren Tire has the same deal?

*checks recipt*

Yep, same deal.  Mount & Balance N/C - $0.00

The catch:  they won't touch your tires the instant they turn 10 years old.  (This is Discount Tire corporate policy, which was--untruthfully--explained to me as required by USDOT regulations.)

This was also corporate policy when I worked at Firestone. They also wouldn't repair a tire that was over five years old.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

LM117

Quote from: Takumi on November 20, 2024, 03:04:16 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 19, 2024, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 19, 2024, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2024, 08:57:10 AMIf you buy your tires from a place like Discount Tire, they do the rotate and balance for free as a part of buying the tires from them.  It takes maybe a half hour or so, depending on how busy they are.  Maybe Warren Tire has the same deal?

*checks recipt*

Yep, same deal.  Mount & Balance N/C - $0.00

The catch:  they won't touch your tires the instant they turn 10 years old.  (This is Discount Tire corporate policy, which was--untruthfully--explained to me as required by USDOT regulations.)

This was also corporate policy when I worked at Firestone. They also wouldn't repair a tire that was over five years old.

Walmart Auto Center won't touch 'em, either.

My mom got an old Chrysler Town & Country last year, and when we went to Walmart recently to get the tires rotated, they refused. We asked why, and they said the tires were 10 years old and then showed me the manufacturing date on the sidewall. Sure enough, they were made in March 2014. We had no idea the tires were that old. We got a new set last month.
"I don't know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!" -Jim Cornette

hbelkins

Quote from: LM117 on November 22, 2024, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: Takumi on November 20, 2024, 03:04:16 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 19, 2024, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 19, 2024, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2024, 08:57:10 AMIf you buy your tires from a place like Discount Tire, they do the rotate and balance for free as a part of buying the tires from them.  It takes maybe a half hour or so, depending on how busy they are.  Maybe Warren Tire has the same deal?

*checks recipt*

Yep, same deal.  Mount & Balance N/C - $0.00

The catch:  they won't touch your tires the instant they turn 10 years old.  (This is Discount Tire corporate policy, which was--untruthfully--explained to me as required by USDOT regulations.)

This was also corporate policy when I worked at Firestone. They also wouldn't repair a tire that was over five years old.

Walmart Auto Center won't touch 'em, either.

My mom got an old Chrysler Town & Country last year, and when we went to Walmart recently to get the tires rotated, they refused. We asked why, and they said the tires were 10 years old and then showed me the manufacturing date on the sidewall. Sure enough, they were made in March 2014. We had no idea the tires were that old. We got a new set last month.

Not even a rotation? That seems rather anal-rententive.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

J N Winkler

Quote from: hbelkins on November 22, 2024, 01:56:36 PMNot even a rotation? That seems rather anal-retentive.

Not even a rotation.  The threshold for liability is "last person to touch the tire."

The shops that I feel are honest about this constraint tend to mention insurance rather than government regulations.  NHTSA (which is part of USDOT) did propose a 10-year age limit for passenger car tires in rulemaking in 2003, but this was abandoned when it was discovered that the 27% of insurance policyholders that live in four warm-weather states--California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida--account for 84% of all loss experience nationally that involves tire failure.

While dry rot is a thing, it is also discoverable through visual inspection.  Excessive heat, which can result not just from high ambient temperatures but also from running underinflated, still remains a principal cause of tire destruction.  In my view, there is little justification for forcing a person to replace a tire solely due to age if he or she has used it primarily in four-seasons areas, it is in good condition visually, and it has consistently been maintained at or above label pressures.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

SEWIGuy

Do people still get their tires rotated? I haven't done that for years.

Rothman

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 22, 2024, 03:57:08 PMDo people still get their tires rotated? I haven't done that for years.

Yes.  Extends the life of the tires.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 22, 2024, 03:57:08 PMDo people still get their tires rotated? I haven't done that for years.

Every other oil change for me.

vdeane

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 22, 2024, 03:57:08 PMDo people still get their tires rotated? I haven't done that for years.
I do mine every oil change.  Not only is it in the maintenance schedule, but I can feel the difference in how the car handles.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SEWIGuy

Huh. I've owned cars for 30 years and have never rotated tires. They've lasted longer than advertised too.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 22, 2024, 02:46:17 PMThe shops that I feel are honest about this constraint tend to mention insurance rather than government regulations.  NHTSA (which is part of USDOT) did propose a 10-year age limit for passenger car tires in rulemaking in 2003, but this was abandoned when it was discovered that the 27% of insurance policyholders that live in four warm-weather states--California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida--account for 84% of all loss experience nationally that involves tire failure.

While dry rot is a thing, it is also discoverable through visual inspection.  Excessive heat, which can result not just from high ambient temperatures but also from running underinflated, still remains a principal cause of tire destruction.  In my view, there is little justification for forcing a person to replace a tire solely due to age if he or she has used it primarily in four-seasons areas, it is in good condition visually, and it has consistently been maintained at or above label pressures.

Several years ago, I was going to be due for an oil change while on a trip in Florida.  I could've taken care of it early up here, but knew of a nearby Honda dealership near where we were staying and figured we can just do lunch nearby.

During the oil change, the service advisor 'advised' me that the tires were over 5 years old.  There was 1 over that age - I had to replace a tire due to an unrepairable nail in the sidewall, and used a slightly older tire that was in good shape.  The other 3 were newer.  The advisor then told me that Florida has a state law that tires cannot be over 5 years old.  She knew I was a NJ resident, so I figured she was trying to pull a fast one over me.  I declined to get new tires, and ultimately she stated that they wouldn't be responsible if anything happened to my tires (duh). 

When I got the bill, not too surprisingly nothing was mentioned about the supposed state law or even the tires' age in writing.

When I got home, I took a look, and as I suspected there doesn't appear to be any law regarding the age of tires in Florida.

It's one of those times I wished I had recorded the conversation.  Without it in writing, it's a "he said she said" situation that goes nowhere.  Having that recorded on my phone could've been a nice YouTube video documenting potential fraud.

Rothman

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 23, 2024, 07:24:58 AMHuh. I've owned cars for 30 years and have never rotated tires. They've lasted longer than advertised too.

*checks tread depths* :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

LM117

Quote from: hbelkins on November 22, 2024, 01:56:36 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 22, 2024, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: Takumi on November 20, 2024, 03:04:16 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 19, 2024, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 19, 2024, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2024, 08:57:10 AMIf you buy your tires from a place like Discount Tire, they do the rotate and balance for free as a part of buying the tires from them.  It takes maybe a half hour or so, depending on how busy they are.  Maybe Warren Tire has the same deal?

*checks recipt*

Yep, same deal.  Mount & Balance N/C - $0.00

The catch:  they won't touch your tires the instant they turn 10 years old.  (This is Discount Tire corporate policy, which was--untruthfully--explained to me as required by USDOT regulations.)

This was also corporate policy when I worked at Firestone. They also wouldn't repair a tire that was over five years old.

Walmart Auto Center won't touch 'em, either.

My mom got an old Chrysler Town & Country last year, and when we went to Walmart recently to get the tires rotated, they refused. We asked why, and they said the tires were 10 years old and then showed me the manufacturing date on the sidewall. Sure enough, they were made in March 2014. We had no idea the tires were that old. We got a new set last month.

Not even a rotation? That seems rather anal-rententive.

Most (if not all) auto shops have that policy in order to shield them from potential lawsuits in case an old tire blew and a customer attempted to blame the shop that last touched the tire.

Walmart did check the air in the tires and made sure they had 36psi that the van called for, so there's that.
"I don't know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!" -Jim Cornette

J N Winkler

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 23, 2024, 07:24:58 AMHuh. I've owned cars for 30 years and have never rotated tires. They've lasted longer than advertised too.

Many years ago, when I had tires from Sears that were covered by a lifetime rotate-and-balance warranty, I took the vehicle in for that service about once a year.  I didn't care about the rotation, but I did notice the immediate NVH improvement from restored wheel balance.

For a car that carries the majority of its weight on one axle, tire rotation can be beneficial in and of itself since it spreads the wear more evenly and raises the likelihood that at the next tire replacement, tread depth will justify replacement of all four tires rather than just the tires on one axle, which would leave you with an older set on the other axle that can age out of easy access to servicing.  However, my own experience has been that even some front-wheel-drive cars have pretty even weight distribution (it's about 55-45 for a 2005 Toyota Camry XLE V6, for example), and a high proportion of highway miles in the driving mix tends to promote uniform wear.

These days, I tend to avoid the need for wheel balancing by avoiding maneuvers that flat-spot the tires (e.g., I straighten out the steering wheel as I back up the car, instead of backing up, stopping, and cranking the steering while the car is stationary), and try to maintain good alignment by avoiding roads that are in poor repair.  I dislike having wheel alignments done because far too many shops cut corners by adjusting front toe on just one side, which results in the steering wheel being cocked to one side when the wheels are pointed straight ahead.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 23, 2024, 09:23:33 AMSeveral years ago, I was going to be due for an oil change while on a trip in Florida.  I could've taken care of it early up here, but knew of a nearby Honda dealership near where we were staying and figured we can just do lunch nearby.

During the oil change, the service advisor 'advised' me that the tires were over 5 years old.  There was 1 over that age - I had to replace a tire due to an unrepairable nail in the sidewall, and used a slightly older tire that was in good shape.  The other 3 were newer.  The advisor then told me that Florida has a state law that tires cannot be over 5 years old.  She knew I was a NJ resident, so I figured she was trying to pull a fast one over me.  I declined to get new tires, and ultimately she stated that they wouldn't be responsible if anything happened to my tires (duh). 

When I got the bill, not too surprisingly nothing was mentioned about the supposed state law or even the tires' age in writing.

When I got home, I took a look, and as I suspected there doesn't appear to be any law regarding the age of tires in Florida.

It's one of those times I wished I had recorded the conversation.  Without it in writing, it's a "he said she said" situation that goes nowhere.  Having that recorded on my phone could've been a nice YouTube video documenting potential fraud.

It totally doesn't surprise me that there are shops out there that use tire age to ease into upselling, even to the point of attempted fraud.  I have heard of some states that have seriously debated age limits--California proposed 10 years at one point--but I am not aware that such proposals have actually made their way onto the statute book.

The stylized fact is that the curve of tire failure rate plotted against age has a knee at six years.  This is why many car owners' manuals recommend replacement at that age.  However, I believe this reflects pessimistic assumptions about maintenance and service, such as no regular pressure checks or compensation for drops in ambient temperature and air percolation through the tire carcass.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Rothman

Avoiding roads that are poorly maintained must cause some really fun detours.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

vdeane

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 23, 2024, 02:17:43 PMI didn't care about the rotation, but I did notice the immediate NVH improvement from restored wheel balance.
That's why I wouldn't skimp on them.  I have had NVH changes signal something being wrong with the car or tires many, many times, so I tend to get worried whenever I experience more vibration; it often means that there's a leaky tire, and one time it meant my wheel bering was going bad.  It always throws me when driving out of state, since most states seem to use asphalt mixes that cause more vibration than NY's.  I've had multiple trips just this year where I thought something was wrong with the car only to have the issue magically disappear once I got back in NY.

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 23, 2024, 02:17:43 PMHowever, I believe this reflects pessimistic assumptions about maintenance and service, such as no regular pressure checks or compensation for drops in ambient temperature and air percolation through the tire carcass.
Indeed.  I've had people assume that I had a flat tire just for doing routine top-ups of the air pressure while parked at my apartment.  Even just checking the pressure can cause people to ask questions.  People just don't do it.

Quote from: Rothman on November 23, 2024, 03:35:42 PMAvoiding roads that are poorly maintained must cause some really fun detours.
Indeed.  Although it will be interesting to see if I have fewer tire issues now that the two horrible sections of road that I drove on every day were finally repaved by the town over the last couple years.  I'm pretty sure there were potholes inside other potholes.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Scott5114

Quote from: Rothman on November 23, 2024, 03:35:42 PMAvoiding roads that are poorly maintained must cause some really fun detours.

He lives in Kansas.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Rothman

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 23, 2024, 09:08:16 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 23, 2024, 03:35:42 PMAvoiding roads that are poorly maintained must cause some really fun detours.

He lives in Kansas.

I might have been a little sarcastic.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JayhawkCO


jeffandnicole

Quote from: Rothman on November 23, 2024, 09:49:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 23, 2024, 09:08:16 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 23, 2024, 03:35:42 PMAvoiding roads that are poorly maintained must cause some really fun detours.

He lives in Kansas.

I might have been a little sarcastic.

[sarcastic]I might have been a little sarcastic.[/sarcastic]

kkt

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2024, 02:40:35 PM
Quote from: kalvado on November 13, 2024, 01:20:20 PMIn an unexpected twist of events, US government strongly recommends not to use C or C++ any more.
Yes, because C/C++ do not do anything to stop you from accessing memory you shouldn't.

C was created as an alternative to assembly language for writing OS kernels and device drivers.  Being able to access whatever memory you want was an essential design choice.  Unfortunately, C and its descendents have come to be used for all sorts of things for which safety would be a better design choice.

vdeane

Quote from: kkt on November 27, 2024, 06:52:23 PMC was created as an alternative to assembly language for writing OS kernels and device drivers.  Being able to access whatever memory you want was an essential design choice.  Unfortunately, C and its descendents have come to be used for all sorts of things for which safety would be a better design choice.
I'm not sure if it's true everywhere, but where I went to college, C practically had a cult-like status among the computer science students.  "If you can, do it in C" was very much the culture there.  The Kernighan and Ritchie book had a reverent status on par with the Bible.  It was not helped by the fact that a lot of the more popular classes used it as the main language of instruction.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Scott5114

Quote from: vdeane on November 27, 2024, 09:14:15 PM
Quote from: kkt on November 27, 2024, 06:52:23 PMC was created as an alternative to assembly language for writing OS kernels and device drivers.  Being able to access whatever memory you want was an essential design choice.  Unfortunately, C and its descendents have come to be used for all sorts of things for which safety would be a better design choice.
I'm not sure if it's true everywhere, but where I went to college, C practically had a cult-like status among the computer science students.  "If you can, do it in C" was very much the culture there.  The Kernighan and Ritchie book had a reverent status on par with the Bible.  It was not helped by the fact that a lot of the more popular classes used it as the main language of instruction.

Programming in C is like driving a manual. They both appeal to the same sort people for the same sort of reasons.

I do think that knowing C makes you a better programmer because it forces you to understand what is going on under the hood in a way that other languages do not. (I don't necessarily know if knowing how to drive stick makes you a better driver, though.)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

vdeane

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 27, 2024, 09:57:27 PMI don't necessarily know if knowing how to drive stick makes you a better driver, though.
Maybe not knowing how, but driving one certainly does.  Several bad habits most drivers seem to have become really annoying and/or difficult to do when you have to manually shift gears.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



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