U.S. 287 Corridor Interstate Feasibility Study in Texas

[vdeane]

IMHO, CDOT and the Colorado state government has blood on its hands. Their refusal to "double barrel" 2-lane highways, such as US-287 in the SE part of the state or US-24 between Colorado Springs and Limon is contributing to fatal collisions that could otherwise be prevented.

I would say that both are good contenders for interstates.  US 287 would be the best path for I-27 if only CDOT were willing to build it, and US 24 would make a good 3di connecting Colorado Springs to I-70.  And if Limon were the junction of three interstates, maybe roadgeeks would have fewer arguments over whether it should be a control city.

[MikieTimT]

IMHO, CDOT and the Colorado state government has blood on its hands. Their refusal to "double barrel" 2-lane highways, such as US-287 in the SE part of the state or US-24 between Colorado Springs and Limon is contributing to fatal collisions that could otherwise be prevented.

I would say that both are good contenders for interstates.  US 287 would be the best path for I-27 if only CDOT were willing to build it, and US 24 would make a good 3di connecting Colorado Springs to I-70.  And if Limon were the junction of three interstates, maybe roadgeeks would have fewer arguments over whether it should be a control city.

Limon has a great truck stop that makes a good pit stop for charter buses going from NWA to Colorado Springs.  That itself makes it a worthy control city.

[ElishaGOtis]

IMHO, CDOT and the Colorado state government has blood on its hands. Their refusal to "double barrel" 2-lane highways, such as US-287 in the SE part of the state or US-24 between Colorado Springs and Limon is contributing to fatal collisions that could otherwise be prevented.

I would say that both are good contenders for interstates.  US 287 would be the best path for I-27 if only CDOT were willing to build it, and US 24 would make a good 3di connecting Colorado Springs to I-70.  And if Limon were the junction of three interstates, maybe roadgeeks would have fewer arguments over whether it should be a control city.

Limon has a great truck stop that makes a good pit stop for charter buses going from NWA to Colorado Springs.  That itself makes it a worthy control city.

So Buc-ee's should be a control city?    /s

On a serious note, the multiple truck stops combined with the junctions of US highways made it a good candidate. It would make more sense maybe US-24 were 4-laned, or if the city were larger in size...

[Scott5114]

The Colorado Department of Transportation opposed extending I-27 through the state and Congress then proceeded to limit I-27 to Texas and New Mexico

Do you have a source for either of these assertions?

[Rothman]

The Colorado Department of Transportation opposed extending I-27 through the state and Congress then proceeded to limit I-27 to Texas and New Mexico

Do you have a source for either of these assertions?

I do seem to remember some roadgeek saying that they were tempted to test the waters with copy-and-paste crap or AI-generated stuff some time ago...

[nhoward45]

Given the anti-highway attitude of the New Mexico and Colorado governments, it may be time to consider a northerly extension of Interstate 27 north of Stratford through the Oklahoma Panhandle and far western Kansas to reach Interstate 70 near Goodland, Kansas.  Western Kansas would get Interstate access to Texas as Interstate 27 is extended southward to San Angelo and points south.  Oklahoma and Kansas are not anti-highway and if needed, tolls could be used as both states have toll roads, especially Oklahoma.

[Bobby5280]

I don't think there is any point of extending I-27 North out of the Texas Panhandle unless it can reach a logical, significant highway junction. Goodland, KS is not such a junction. Even if the highway was diverted to Guymon, OK and then Liberal, KS and Garden City, KS such an extension still wouldn't make sense.

Limon, CO would be a more logical North terminus for I-27 since that would point toward the Denver metro and some other points along the Front Range.

In the meantime (which means in the next decade or so) TX DOT just needs to focus on its in-state portions of I-27 expansion. If they can get I-27 extended to Dumas that might be nice. I don't expect an I-27 (or "I-27N") expansion to Stratford happening any time soon. If such a thing did happen it could spur Oklahoma to at least 4-lane its portion of US-287. I don't expect CDOT to do anything with US-287 on their side of the OK/CO border. It appears they find the current 2-lane road and head-on collisions there to be acceptable.

Side note: on the way back to Oklahoma this past weekend I looked closely at the utility relocation taking place on US-87 between Dumas and Hartley. The new utility poles are about 90' South of the existing utility poles. That observation is based on some visual reference points on a property along the highway and how things measured in Google Earth overhead imagery. It looks like the expanded ROW will be about 250' wide. That's enough for a standard 4-lane divided highway. But it would be a pretty tight squeeze for a rural Interstate flanked by frontage roads.

[abqtraveler]

Given the anti-highway attitude of the New Mexico and Colorado governments, it may be time to consider a northerly extension of Interstate 27 north of Stratford through the Oklahoma Panhandle and far western Kansas to reach Interstate 70 near Goodland, Kansas.  Western Kansas would get Interstate access to Texas as Interstate 27 is extended southward to San Angelo and points south.  Oklahoma and Kansas are not anti-highway and if needed, tolls could be used as both states have toll roads, especially Oklahoma.

Colorado and New Mexico have no apparent interest in completing their portions of the Ports to Plains Corridor, albeit for different reasons. In 2022, Colorado passed a law that prioritizes funding for mass transit projects over highway projects, which resulted in the cancellation of a project to widen I-25 through downtown Denver, among other things. Gov. Jared Polis has gone as far as to say his goal for Colorado is to "get more people out of their cars and onto mass transit." Colorado's anti-highway sentiment is for real, and their motivation is driven by combating climate change.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/colorados-bold-new-approach-to-highways-not-building-them/

The situation in New Mexico is a bit different in that New Mexico is (and always has been) a cash-poor state, relative to its neighbors. With that, major investments in highway are heavily prioritized toward Albuquerque, Santa Fe, and Las Cruces. Elsewhere, the state provides the minimum amount of funding to preserve the existing road network. For example, there is close to $1 billion worth of major highway projects in the pipeline to fix I-25 through Albuquerque that are either ongoing or will be underway within the next decade. There is a new Rio Grande river crossing that is being built in Los Lunas, along with a second interchange with I-25 there. Finally, the state has fully funded the replacement of the bridges that carry NM-500 over the Rio Grande on the south side of Albuquerque.

Yes, New Mexico has its own climate initiatives that are focused more on renewable energy production, but unlike Colorado, leaders in New Mexico have not completely bought into the idea of forcing people onto mass transit by making driving as miserable as possible.

[PColumbus73]

Assuming a hypothetical route through Kansas, I think I-27 would have to go to I-80 near Ogallala or Julesburg to get decent usage. I-27 from 40 to 70 would at best be a stair-step route between Denver and Oklahoma City.

Might be a separate discussion, but I noticed there aren't many northwest trending diagonal interstates west of the Mississippi. An interstate between Oklahoma City and Ogallala or Cheyenne might be more valuable than I-27.

[Bobby5280]

Colorado and New Mexico have no apparent interest in completing their portions of the Ports to Plains Corridor, albeit for different reasons. In 2022, Colorado passed a law that prioritizes funding for mass transit projects over highway projects, which resulted in the cancellation of a project to widen I-25 through downtown Denver, among other things. Gov. Jared Polis has gone as far as to say his goal for Colorado is to "get more people out of their cars and onto mass transit." Colorado's anti-highway sentiment is for real, and their motivation is driven by combating climate change.

Meanwhile ridership numbers on Denver buses and metro rail remain well below numbers prior to the COVID-19 pandemic. Some of that could be from the trend of people working remotely. But other negative factors can't be dismissed. Who wants to freeze their ass off standing at a bus stop during winter time? City buses don't always run on schedule. Apparently there is quite a bit of crime around Denver's transit authority complex.

New Mexico sucks at building and maintaining its highways, especially the ones in rural areas not close to Santa Fe. But they'll at least double-barrel a problem highway, such as US-64/87 between Raton and Texline. Colorado can't even seem to manage that, despite having a larger and more affluent population as well as a larger tax base. Like I said, they have blood on their hands for many otherwise preventable fatal collisions.

Might be a separate discussion, but I noticed there aren't many northwest trending diagonal interstates west of the Mississippi. An interstate between Oklahoma City and Ogallala or Cheyenne might be more valuable than I-27.

A diagonal Interstate going NW from Oklahoma City could tie into the I-27 thing at Kit Carson, CO. I-70 and US-287 already have a good portion of diagonal highway started there. It just needs to be extended down to Woodward, OK to tie into the OK-3 diagonal route.

[PColumbus73]

A diagonal Interstate going NW from Oklahoma City could tie into the I-27 thing at Kit Carson, CO. I-70 and US-287 already have a good portion of diagonal highway started there. It just needs to be extended down to Woodward, OK to tie into the OK-3 diagonal route.

I think getting it to I-80 would be ideal to connect the Sun Belt to the PNW. If it does go through I-27 in Colorado, extending it to I-25 near Fort Collins would work, too.

With the aforementioned political climate in Colorado, might be a good idea to see if Kansas might be on board and revise the Ports-to-Plains plan. I assume Oklahoma is starting to follow Texas and North Carolina's lead after signing I-335 & 344.

[Bobby5280]

There are no major population centers in Western Kansas or any major junction points in the national highway network there. It's not worth the expense of building a new North-South Interstate highway into that territory if the Interstate won't connect to anything of significance.

Building a diagonal Interstate from the OKC area to Cheyenne would be quite a bit longer and more expensive than dove-tailing a route from OKC into the Ports to Plains Corridor at Kit Carson, CO. Denver and the cluster of other Front Range towns/cities around it is a far more major destination and important junction point than Cheyenne.

Anyone driving from Seattle or Portland to places in the South or Southeast US would probably want an "oasis" of city/suburb stuff along the Front Range as a stopping point after driving through so many hundreds of miles of fairly desolate territory.

[Plutonic Panda]

Colorados anti freeway sentiment is fucking ridiculous.

[Bobby5280]

Yeah it really is ridiculous. They're doing the bare minimum, if even that, on "major" highway projects. They tore up I-25 to the South of Colorado Springs, pretty much re-building the main lanes from scratch. When I saw the finished project I was pretty disappointed to see a 2x2 lanes configuration. BTW, it was a real pain in the ass driving thru that just recently for the Christmas holiday. With only two lanes it's easy to get stuck behind a slow poke doing 50mph while a column of passing traffic in the left lane is doing 80mph. Out of nowhere everyone has to hit the brakes. I guess the governor thinks we all should have been using bicycles for our road trips instead.

I-25 expansion North of Colorado Springs is laughable. 2 general purpose lanes and 1 toll lane in each direction. Suck-tastic.

[vdeane]

There are no major population centers in Western Kansas or any major junction points in the national highway network there. It's not worth the expense of building a new North-South Interstate highway into that territory if the Interstate won't connect to anything of significance.

I-70 isn't significant?  Or is this too far east to act in place of a route to Limon?  It's only ~70 miles longer and would avoid a lot of two-lane roads.

[Bobby5280]

I-70 in Western Kansas is out in the middle of friggin' nowhere. Limon is already a good ways East of Denver. But Western Kansas? That just sucks. Anyone driving from points in West Texas to cities along the Front Range will stick to using either US-87 to Raton or US-287 to Limon. An I-27 route going up into Western Kansas to unceremoniously end at a "T" junction with I-70 would result in a highway junction about as useful as tits on a bull.

[bmorrill]

about as useful as tits on a bull.

Interesting. I've always heard it as "tits on a boar hog."

[vdeane]

I-70 in Western Kansas is out in the middle of friggin' nowhere. Limon is already a good ways East of Denver. But Western Kansas? That just sucks. Anyone driving from points in West Texas to cities along the Front Range will stick to using either US-87 to Raton or US-287 to Limon. An I-27 route going up into Western Kansas to unceremoniously end at a "T" junction with I-70 would result in a highway junction about as useful as tits on a bull.

People wouldn't drive an extra 70 miles to have an all-interstate route with higher speed limits and no traffic lights or stop signs?

[splashflash]

about as useful as tits on a bull.

Interesting. I've always heard it as "tits on a boar hog."

Or just tits on a boar.

[Bobby5280]

People wouldn't drive an extra 70 miles to have an all-interstate route with higher speed limits and no traffic lights or stop signs?

Most people would stick to using the shortest distance route. The existing routes of the Ports to Plains Corridor in the Texas Panhandle, New Mexico and Colorado don't exactly have lots of stop lights along the way. Speed limits vary between 70mph and 75mph. I usually drive to Colorado via Raton Pass. There's a few speed zones here and there. At most they cost me a few minutes of time. I'm sure not driving more than an hour out of my way, burning through a few gallons more of fuel, just to avoid slowing down in towns like Clayton or Mount Dora.

[Rothman]

I think people would stick to the fastest route, even if it isn't the shortest distance.

[PColumbus73]

I-27 would be going through miles of nothing whether it be Kansas or Colorado. The miles of nothing exist on several interstates like 70, 80, 90, 94. The gap between Billings and Bismarck is over 400 miles with only a smattering of small towns in between. I agree that no one would enjoy driving a route like I-94 where there is a large gap without decently populated towns or services, but if it provides a link that didn't previously exist, then folks would deal with it as they would with the others.

[mrose]

Yep, it was the one pretty irritating thing about living there. Denver tends to look after Denver; the rest of the state, not so much.

I'm not opposed entirely to the concept of more mass transit but there isn't much need for it outside the Denver metro and they've done a terrible job with the airport light rail.

I think it is very short-sighted to suggest that you need to stop building roads completely, especially when there is a fairly good need for this corridor to come to fruition.

Maybe if they decided to build it with toll lanes.... 

[ski-man]

I think it is very short-sighted to suggest that you need to stop building roads completely, especially when there is a fairly good need for this corridor to come to fruition.

Maybe if they decided to build it with toll lanes.... 

Over the past decade it seems as though 90% of freeway lanes Colorado builds is tolled lanes. Making it worse is Colorado has some of the most expensive tolls in the country. US 287 thru the eastern plains is the best route to take I-27. I drive to Texas multiple times a year and do not take 287 anymore due to the dangers on that road. It needs upgraded. I either go over Raton Pass or thru Kansas to I-135 to I-35.

[Bobby5280]

At the very least US-287 in SE Colorado needs to be converted to a standard 4-lane divided highway. The 2-lane configuration sucks. I think it's the most dangerous in the area crossing the CO/OK border. Colorado is being cheap as hell not doing anything about that highway.

Even I-25 needs a good amount of work. There are locations along that road South of Colorado Springs that clearly do not meet current Interstate standards. A couple of exits down that way are damned near hard right turns. Some of the bridges look like they date back to the 1960's or earlier.