News:

The AARoads Wiki is live! Come check it out!

Main Menu

Nissan and Honda in merger talks

Started by kernals12, December 17, 2024, 02:02:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

kernals12

Per CNBC

It would be the biggest merger in the auto industry since Fiat Chrysler and PSA came together to form Stellantis.


SP Cook

Interesting.  Don't know, but does the USA anti-trust crew, or for that matter the EU, Brits or Canadian, have to sign off on this?   Nissan is in real trouble, and I would assume Japan would be all for anything that saves that many jobs. 

Fact is we still have too many "full line" automakers competing for the same customers.  If they just make a bigger Honda, then that seems a good idea, even if they maintain two dealer networks and rebadge some as Nissans.


SEWIGuy

I don't think they would have much to worry about from the American point of view. It's not like either is in a market dominant position. 

Molandfreak

Since Nissan is about to end production of the Altima, any chance that it ends up as a badge-engineered Civic in the event of a merger?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

Max Rockatansky

Nissan is poison.  They'll just ultimately drag Honda brand down (especially regarding build quality).

formulanone

#5
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 17, 2024, 02:36:36 PMSince Nissan is about to end production of the Altima, any chance that it ends up as a badge-engineered Civic in the event of a merger?

Probably not. It's more of an Accord-sized vehicle, anyhow. But it would give them access to the Tennessee and Mississippi manufacturing facilities, which would really scare the US Big Three.

As to their US line-ups, there's not much Honda gains out of it other than the pickup/light-duty truck division, and a low-volume "halo car" in the 400Z. But it does take a slice out of Nissan's worldwide market share, which is shrinking in the US, though they gain access to Infiniti (also losing sales), and Mitsubishi (on life-support) as well. I'd imagine the limited Nissan technical partnership with Mercedes-Benz goes away the moment the ink dries on any deal.

I can't see Honda actually holding onto a third and fourth brand for long in the US, unless it's restructured in a way where trucks are {this brand} and small cars are {that brand}. It's popular to have all sorts of flavors of similar lineups in Japan, but really not necessary in the North American market.

Hopefully, Nissan's deal with JATCO is immediately rescinded the moment Honda agrees to a deal.

kernals12

I wish Honda would buy Alfa Romeo and give us the ultra-reliable Italian styled automobiles we've all wanted for so long

Max Rockatansky

Italian automakers have been known for reliability since when?  Or are you assuming that Honda can fix those brands?  I'm not convinced Honda can fix Nissan or any poor managed automotive brand.  If anything they'll just pull Honda down a couple pegs.

kernals12

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2024, 03:26:43 PMItalian automakers have been known for reliability since when?

Never. I'm saying it would improve if a Japanese automaker took over.

kernals12

Tesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.

Max Rockatansky

Nissan and Stellantis are struggling because they both suck. 

Nissan went for outright cheapness to undercut their rival automakers on price.  The problem is that everyone figured out how bad the brand's quality control level has gotten.  Being meme worthy via Big Altima Energy isn't helping.

Stellantis is struggling to find a direction.  The company clearly doesn't have a good grasp on what the American market wants nor wants input from anyone state side.  How the Chrysler brands are being handled right now is giving me vibes from the Daimler-Chrysler merger. 

Speaking of Stellantis, who the fuck is the intended buyer for the Dodge Hornet?  The commercials seemed to indicate it was for intended for LX car owners.  I couldn't think of a more different vehicle.

thspfc

Quote from: SP Cook on December 17, 2024, 02:07:53 PMInteresting.  Don't know, but does the USA anti-trust crew have to sign off on this?
It would most likely be allowed. (Oversimplification) based on the respective US market shares, the increase to the Herfindahl index would be about 72 points. The general guideline for the DOJ/FTC is a 100-point increase, anything more than that is scrutinized.

SectorZ

I know I'm echoing similar sentiments, but why the hell would Honda want to do this? Nissan is a Japanese company with American quality, with certain problems like their terrible CVTs now lasting for decades.

It makes me concerned as a potential Honda buyer in the near future that the Nissan rot would start infiltrating them.

Max Rockatansky

I've shopped Honda a couple times in recent car purchases.  They aren't even going to be on my list if they get in bed with Nissan.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 03:44:06 PMTesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.

Tesla? Hardly. Not even a top ten automaker. Mostly it's the rise of Hyundai and Chinese automakers.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 07:37:37 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 03:44:06 PMTesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.

Tesla? Hardly. Not even a top ten automaker. Mostly it's the rise of Hyundai and Chinese automakers.

Nissan even tried to jump on the EV game early.  They built subpar products and quickly got surpassed by the other volume automakers in the same demographic. 

SectorZ

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2024, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 07:37:37 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 03:44:06 PMTesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.

Tesla? Hardly. Not even a top ten automaker. Mostly it's the rise of Hyundai and Chinese automakers.

Nissan even tried to jump on the EV game early.  They built subpar products and quickly got surpassed by the other volume automakers in the same demographic. 

What do you mean "we need to liquid cool the battery"?

kenarmy

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2024, 03:51:22 PMNissan and Stellantis are struggling because they both suck. 

Stellantis is struggling to find a direction.  The company clearly doesn't have a good grasp on what the American market wants nor wants input from anyone state side.  How the Chrysler brands are being handled right now is giving me vibes from the Daimler-Chrysler merger. 

Speaking of Stellantis, who the fuck is the intended buyer for the Dodge Hornet?  The commercials seemed to indicate it was for intended for LX car owners.  I couldn't think of a more different vehicle.

Agreed. Nissan lost the plot sometime in the 2000s, and the former Chrysler Corp. has been going downhill ever since Daimler. FiatChrysler was pretty terrible as well and didn't do much for the American Brands. The Durango is old as dirt, the LX cars dated back to the 2000s and used recycled Mercedes parts, and the Hornet is.. yeah. I don't think the Hornet is absolutely putrid (Hello Journey), but in no universe should it be only half of Dodge's lineup. Honestly, the new Charger's aren't terrible looking and I think the I-6 could be worth something.

I think that some of Nissan's more modern products have been solid though, such as the G, QX60/80, Q60, Pathfinder, Armada, Xterra, and Frontier.
Just a reminder that US 6, 49, 50, and 98 are superior to your fave routes :)


EXTEND 206 SO IT CAN MEET ITS PARENT.

Rothman

Agree with Max regarding Nissan.  Doesn't see to make much sense for Honda to buy them, when their quality has taken a nosedive.

I'm certainly leaving Nissan after having bought three of their vehicles over time.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Henry

I see this going nowhere, just like the proposed GM-Chrysler merger from a few years back (and I, for one, am glad that didn't happen). There's also no way that Honda is getting rid of Acura, so that means the death of Infiniti if something shocking happens (IOW, the takeover gets approved). Despite their own negative press, Toyota and Lexus have long ruled the Japanese market, and the gap is getting wider every day; don't expect that to change anytime soon.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kenarmy on December 17, 2024, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2024, 03:51:22 PMNissan and Stellantis are struggling because they both suck. 

Stellantis is struggling to find a direction.  The company clearly doesn't have a good grasp on what the American market wants nor wants input from anyone state side.  How the Chrysler brands are being handled right now is giving me vibes from the Daimler-Chrysler merger. 

Speaking of Stellantis, who the fuck is the intended buyer for the Dodge Hornet?  The commercials seemed to indicate it was for intended for LX car owners.  I couldn't think of a more different vehicle.

Agreed. Nissan lost the plot sometime in the 2000s, and the former Chrysler Corp. has been going downhill ever since Daimler. FiatChrysler was pretty terrible as well and didn't do much for the American Brands. The Durango is old as dirt, the LX cars dated back to the 2000s and used recycled Mercedes parts, and the Hornet is.. yeah. I don't think the Hornet is absolutely putrid (Hello Journey), but in no universe should it be only half of Dodge's lineup. Honestly, the new Charger's aren't terrible looking and I think the I-6 could be worth something.

I think that some of Nissan's more modern products have been solid though, such as the G, QX60/80, Q60, Pathfinder, Armada, Xterra, and Frontier.

The problem with the new Charger is that it just isn't going to please a lot of former LX car buyers (speaking as one myself).  Part of the appeal was having the option for a big, dumb and affordable V8 car.  Stellantis for right or wrong doesn't seem to be able really reaching the V8 LX car owners.  A turbo I6 just doesn't seem right.

The new Charger looks great, can't say I'm interested in it personally without a V8. Right now the Mustang is the only semi-affordable Pony Car or really anything "kind of cheap" with a V8.  The price of a new GT is on the high side, but it isn't as though Ford has competition.

Not that I'm suggesting that wrapping the entire Dodge brand in the LX car and Hemi identity was a good idea.  Getting away from brand diversity was a horrible idea given the writing for emissions was on the wall even a decade ago.  Fiat-Chrysler just gave up on making quality economical cars when the Neon failed.  They probably should have been focusing on a small CUV but I suspect the stain the Caliber didn't make the idea endearing.

Rothman

Ugh, the Caliber was horrible.  Rented one once and it was a poor experience I will never forget.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Max Rockatansky

Doug visited me a couple years ago in a rental Dodge Journey.  He apparently had to drive that POS on CA 49 in the Merced River Canyon.  We opted to take my Impreza to Generals Highway.

Takumi

Quote from: Henry on December 17, 2024, 10:24:35 PMI see this going nowhere, just like the proposed GM-Chrysler merger from a few years back (and I, for one, am glad that didn't happen). There's also no way that Honda is getting rid of Acura, so that means the death of Infiniti if something shocking happens (IOW, the takeover gets approved). Despite their own negative press, Toyota and Lexus have long ruled the Japanese market, and the gap is getting wider every day; don't expect that to change anytime soon.
It helps that Toyota is both the largest automaker in the world and the largest Japanese company period, and of the Japanese automakers has been established internationally for the longest time. Toyota was already a known commodity in the US by the time Honda even built its first car.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

Road Hog

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 07:37:37 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 03:44:06 PMTesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.

Tesla? Hardly. Not even a top ten automaker. Mostly it's the rise of Hyundai and Chinese automakers.
Disagree. I've said before that every tenth car I see in DFW is a Tesla. That will only increase as long as Trump and Musk stay kissy-kissy. But I won't be in the market for one until they come out with a real pickup truck.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.