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Service Cancellation Policies

Started by webny99, December 27, 2024, 10:31:11 PM

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webny99

I had a fascinating experience with a local barber shop recently that prompts me to ask: what are your thoughts on service cancellation policies for when you need to cancel, change or reschedule any kind of service appointment at the last minute?

I'll share my story later once it's finished playing out, but I wanted to put this out there so others can share their thoughts and experiences. Thanks in advance!


oscar

Quote from: webny99 on December 27, 2024, 10:31:11 PMI had a fascinating experience with a local barber shop recently that prompts me to ask: what are your thoughts on service cancellation policies writ large? And what is the ideal policy for service oriented cancellations, if there is such a thing?

I'll share my story later once it's finished playing out, but I wanted to put this out there so others can share their thoughts and experiences. Thanks in advance!

I have no idea what you're getting at, including what kind of "service cancellation policies" are at issue. Maybe supply more context, without waiting for the story to play out?
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webny99

#2
Quote from: oscar on December 27, 2024, 10:48:09 PMI have no idea what you're getting at, including what kind of "service cancellation policies" are at issue. Maybe supply more context, without waiting for the story to play out?

Sorry for the lack of clarity. I'm referring to when you have to change or cancel any kind of service appointment (personal, home, property or otherwise) at the last minute, and specifically whether you should have to pay for the service if you didn't recieve it. I updated the OP for clarity too.

Rothman

I take it your barber doesn't like last-minute cancellations?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

webny99

Quote from: Rothman on December 27, 2024, 11:03:49 PMI take it your barber doesn't like last-minute cancellations?

Fair assumption.

Rothman

Quote from: webny99 on December 27, 2024, 11:10:35 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 27, 2024, 11:03:49 PMI take it your barber doesn't like last-minute cancellations?

Fair assumption.

That's typically the case in the cosmetology/hairdressing/barber world.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

TheHighwayMan3561

I guess I don't know what they can really do to you other than say you're not welcome back until you pay the demanded fee. They probably don't have your card on file or a contractual agreement to charge you for inconvenience, like for example hotels have both of these things lined up to charge you if you cancel late or no-show.
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formulanone

#7
About a week ago, I had to cancel work plans for travel to north-central New Jersey for the first Monday in January. This is common enough for my job that approximately every third or fourth project changes, for some reason. The hotel I booked had a twenty-one day cancellation notice, or would charge the first night's room rate as a penalty, even if not pre-paid. Admittedly, I've become complacent and not double-checked that their policy had increased tenfold compared to everywhere else I've booked over the last 15 years. 

The usual hotels charge that one-night rate as a cancellation usually within 24-48 hours; it used to reliably be "if before 6pm of that first night" before COVID, with some exceptions for special events or those who pre-paid their hotel stay for a lower rate. This 21-day nonsense surprised the heck out of me because it was a Hampton Inn and not in a particularly small nor large city. (I won't shame them because they dropped the fee/charge due to my hotel loyalty status, but only after an extra phone call.)

Typically, the airline ticket goes back to a "specific-airline-usable credit", if booked more than 24 hours prior, and if not a fully-refundable fare.* My rental car is usually outright cancelled without charge, about two hours before rental. I've only been charged a no-show fee once, but it was also overturned when I had rented elsewhere in the country, but many hours later that same day.

I figured I'd bring that up here since this will probably not be the last of this kind of situation which happens, unless the hotels become more weary of overturning their own policies and processes before the public does...

* There's a number of different fares airlines have at most times; Basic Economy (pay less, but without refund...not done in my line of work, for reasons explained above), Economy/Coach, Premium Fares (extra legroom), and First/Business. For everything besides Basic, there's usually a Fully Refundable Fare class-within-a-class that determines whether you get your money back without question, or an airline credit/voucher. Most people don't spend the extra money on a fully-refundable fare, unless they're forced to do so (for example, the last few seats/tickets on an aircraft are sometimes sold as "fully-refundable fares", because the aircraft is either oversold or figures you have to be somewhat serious about paying too much for that flight), or constantly have very flexible or immediately-changing travel plans. This only scratches the surface and there's always exceptions and can't cover every instance and possibility (there's a whole, more-knowledgeable space on the Internet for that).

Rothman

Totally non-refundable pre-paid hotel reaervations are quite common.  "We'll give you a discount if you pay up front...but no show?  We keep the money."
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

1995hoo

I've never dealt with a cancellation policy at a barbershop, but then I've also never had to make an appointment for a haircut except in summer 2020 during the first two or three months of reopening following the COVID shutdowns.

Hotel cancellation policies are routine and I always check those very carefully before I book somewhere. The policy Rothman notes is, as he says, quite common—if you're absolutely certain you'll make the trip, you might be able to save some money, but for things like business travel I never take that risk (no reason to do so if I'm getting reimbursed for it anyway).

My dentist has a policy that you have to cancel 48 hours in advance or you may be charged a fee if they cannot fill the slot (hence why it's 48 hours instead of 24—gives them more time to fill the slot). That sort of thing is quite common. The other prong of their policy is that if you have more than one last-minute cancellation, you may be asked to find a different dentist. I don't know how common that sort of thing is (and I assume there is likely some level of flexibility depending on the reason why you cancel).

For things like a plumber or an electrician I tend to pay less attention because if I call them, there is a minimal chance I'd cancel the appointment.

As a general matter, I don't have a strong objection to these sorts of policies as long as they're clearly communicated when you make the appointment or reservation. As my dentist's policy makes clear, they've held that slot for you. They rely on appointments to make money, and if you have to cancel at the last second, they don't make any money on that slot if they can't fill it.
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commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

SEWIGuy

I think the problem is that a lot of people just don't show up, and there is an expense to that. You are open and paying employees, but had to forego revenue because someone either doesn't show or cancels late.

My experience is that, if you are a good customer and call, apologize and explain the problem, they often give you the benefit of the doubt and will allow you to reschedule.

epzik8

Charge them if they're a no-call no-show, otherwise forgive them.
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kalvado

Quote from: epzik8 on December 28, 2024, 10:23:38 AMCharge them if they're a no-call no-show, otherwise forgive them.
If a client doesn't show up, it still means there are costs for providers which are normally covered by client charge. Hourly staff payroll, rent, utilities. Provider may take an unpaid break - but is that what they plan for?

As far as I understand, appointment discipline went down after covid; and a secondary market for some reservations - NYC restaurants, for example - emerged. It messes things up ..

https://ny.eater.com/2024/12/18/24324546/restaurant-reservation-black-market-illegal-passing-hochul
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reservations-top-new-york-city-restaurants-are-selling-hundreds-dollar-rcna151702

1995hoo

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 28, 2024, 09:37:46 AM...

My experience is that, if you are a good customer and call, apologize and explain the problem, they often give you the benefit of the doubt and will allow you to reschedule.

To some extent this goes along with my comment about the reason for cancelling. I once had to cancel at the last minute with my former dentist (he's now retired) due to an unexpected sudden business trip to Pittsburgh on 24 hours' notice. He didn't charge me and said that I'd been a longtime patient and it was circumstances beyond my control.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

webny99

Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 28, 2024, 12:18:00 AMI guess I don't know what they can really do to you other than say you're not welcome back until you pay the demanded fee. They probably don't have your card on file or a contractual agreement to charge you for inconvenience, like for example hotels have both of these things lined up to charge you if you cancel late or no-show.

In my case, they actually did because I used an online booking service and I guess I put my card info in the first time I booked. It was so long ago that I had forgotten, since I had used the same site a number of times since without having to enter a card.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Rothman on December 28, 2024, 07:16:38 AMTotally non-refundable pre-paid hotel reaervations are quite common.  "We'll give you a discount if you pay up front...but no show?  We keep the money."

I used to take advantage of these quite often.  I've stopped since getting married since my wife gets weird about bailing trips if the weather turns bad.  Usually I just now opt for the higher hotel price that offers cancellation.

SectorZ

Quote from: kalvado on December 28, 2024, 10:38:48 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on December 28, 2024, 10:23:38 AMCharge them if they're a no-call no-show, otherwise forgive them.
If a client doesn't show up, it still means there are costs for providers which are normally covered by client charge. Hourly staff payroll, rent, utilities. Provider may take an unpaid break - but is that what they plan for?

As far as I understand, appointment discipline went down after covid; and a secondary market for some reservations - NYC restaurants, for example - emerged. It messes things up ..

https://ny.eater.com/2024/12/18/24324546/restaurant-reservation-black-market-illegal-passing-hochul
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reservations-top-new-york-city-restaurants-are-selling-hundreds-dollar-rcna151702


The fact that NY has to save people from themselves spending thousands of alleged dollars on black-market dining reservations is really a first world problem I refuse to get upset about.

kalvado

Quote from: SectorZ on December 28, 2024, 08:42:47 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 28, 2024, 10:38:48 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on December 28, 2024, 10:23:38 AMCharge them if they're a no-call no-show, otherwise forgive them.
If a client doesn't show up, it still means there are costs for providers which are normally covered by client charge. Hourly staff payroll, rent, utilities. Provider may take an unpaid break - but is that what they plan for?

As far as I understand, appointment discipline went down after covid; and a secondary market for some reservations - NYC restaurants, for example - emerged. It messes things up ..

https://ny.eater.com/2024/12/18/24324546/restaurant-reservation-black-market-illegal-passing-hochul
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reservations-top-new-york-city-restaurants-are-selling-hundreds-dollar-rcna151702


The fact that NY has to save people from themselves spending thousands of alleged dollars on black-market dining reservations is really a first world problem I refuse to get upset about.
I am totally not upset, but the fact that it escalated as far as state law can tell you about things getting crazy

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2024, 03:21:08 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 28, 2024, 07:16:38 AMTotally non-refundable pre-paid hotel reaervations are quite common.  "We'll give you a discount if you pay up front...but no show?  We keep the money."

I used to take advantage of these quite often.  I've stopped since getting married since my wife gets weird about bailing trips if the weather turns bad.  Usually I just now opt for the higher hotel price that offers cancellation.

When the practice first started with hotels, the difference was so minimal ($2 or $3) that it really didn't make sense to take the prepaid rate. There can be a slightly larger difference now, but often it's still relatively minimal compared to the loss of the prepayment if the trip doesn't occur.

Quote from: webny99 on December 27, 2024, 10:31:11 PMI had a fascinating experience with a local barber shop recently that prompts me to ask: what are your thoughts on service cancellation policies for when you need to cancel, change or reschedule any kind of service appointment at the last minute?

I'll share my story later once it's finished playing out, but I wanted to put this out there so others can share their thoughts and experiences. Thanks in advance!

When an appointment is cancelled at the last minute, that's a loss of pay to the employee. Imagine if your job told you they're not going to pay you for 30-60 minutes. Oh, and you can't leave.

Sometimes changes are unavoidable. If they do refund you the no-show charge, tip your barber extra next time.

Scott5114

My wife used to have a specialist doctor in Oklahoma City who she saw every few months. We lived in Norman and had basically no reason to be in that part of OKC other than to see that doctor. So there were a few times where we were a few minutes late getting to an appointment because we didn't know the traffic in the area well enough to know when we needed to leave extra time to get there. Shouldn't have been a big deal, since they were one of those offices where you get to sit in the waiting room for 30 minutes to an hour before they call you back anyway. But the office staff got snotty about it. (The actual doctor didn't really seem to care much.)

Anyway we got tired of the snide remarks and quit going to that doctor altogether. I guess that solved whatever problem we were causing them.
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webny99

#20
Quote from: webny99 on December 27, 2024, 10:31:11 PMI'll share my story later once it's finished playing out

Alright, here goes. I started off on the wrong foot by not booking my haircut far enough in advance of the holiday season, so I had to settle for a Friday afternoon appointment that required me to leave work early. Predictably, I ran late, and while I was on my way they called to ask if I was coming and I said yes, but they soured after finding I'd be close to 15 minutes late.

I offered to rebook, but they were swamped so I couldn't rebook with my usual barber until next week, so I very reluctantly accepted the no show fee (full price) and a rebooking for Saturday afternoon with another barber.

I then called their other location to see about an earlier time slot. They had a Saturday morning appointment that I preferred, so I took it.

Since I typically pay cash, I honestly didn't think they had my card on file to charge, but I checked an hour later and sure enough they'd already charged it. I was pretty annoyed by paying almost $30 for nothing (partly my own fault, I'm aware) so I dumped a one star review on Google and figured I'd see if anything came of it.

Within an hour their number called again and I was busy, so I called back later when I got a good chance, still mildly annoyed but optimistic.

The guy I spoke to earlier (who turned out to be the owner) was pretty worked up and confused about why I left one star but then rebooked at their other location, and told me that I wasn't welcome for my appointment in the morning because of the review. I didn't have much to say except I wasn't happy about paying for a haircut and getting nothing, but he was set on me either accepting the charge (and removing the review) or canceling my rebooked appointment.

And, he'd only credit my card if I wasn't returning. Crediting my card and continuing to do business together wasn't an option.

Well, none of those options appealed to me, but neither did finding a new barber and I needed the haircut ASAP, so I stalled for time for a bit, let him do a bit more talking, and eventually after close to 20 minutes on the phone, I agreed to keep the keep the appointment, and removed my review.

So I got my hair cut without incident yesterday but concluded that the vibes are now so weird that I'm going to find a new barber anyways. The deciding factor was that the owner *told* my barber that I left a one star review, so now that's going to be hanging over our relationship and he's a really good guy and I can't face the awkwardness of that for either of us.

And since the owner cared so much about the review, I also left a new *three* star review stating that they were tripping over dollars to pick up pennies and that they valued my review more than my business, so they could have what they valued most, but that I did have a good experience with both of the barbers that had cut my hair. So there you have it.

webny99

#21
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 28, 2024, 10:59:48 PMWhen an appointment is cancelled at the last minute, that's a loss of pay to the employee. Imagine if your job told you they're not going to pay you for 30-60 minutes. Oh, and you can't leave.

My response to that is: Why?

As far as I know, there's no legal requirement or mandate they employees can't get paid if they're not actively working, so it doesn't *have* to be that way. What about slow days, or appointments that go quicker than expected? It's not like the appointment revenue is going direct to the employee's paycheck - they're two separate things and it's ultimately up to the owners/managers of the company to decide how those situations will be handled.

Rothman

Seems the moral of the story is not to be late.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 03:38:57 PMSeems the moral of the story is not to be late.

Exactly. If he is on-time none of this is an issue. And then getting mad, and posting a bad review, because they enforced a no-show policy that he agreed to seems to be a bit much.

Just be on time.

Scott5114

I dunno, I think if a barber was that up their own ass about the schedule I'd find a new barber anyway. I generally have a policy of not spending money with people that stress me out if I have other options. And there's plenty of people that cut hair.
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