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Service Cancellation Policies

Started by webny99, December 27, 2024, 10:31:11 PM

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Rothman

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2024, 03:58:21 PMI dunno, I think if a barber was that up their own ass about the schedule I'd find a new barber anyway. I generally have a policy of not spending money with people that stress me out if I have other options. And there's plenty of people that cut hair.

Sure.  Just go to a barber that takes walk-ins.  No problem with that.  But make appointments that you aren't sure you can be on time for?  Not a good practice.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.


kalvado

Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 03:38:57 PMSeems the moral of the story is not to be late.
There is always a non-zero chance of things not adding up.

Rothman

Quote from: kalvado on December 29, 2024, 04:12:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 03:38:57 PMSeems the moral of the story is not to be late.
There is always a non-zero chance of things not adding up.

Sure, and if it was a real emergency, that's one thing.  Losing track of time at work?  Not so much.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kalvado

Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 04:11:35 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2024, 03:58:21 PMI dunno, I think if a barber was that up their own ass about the schedule I'd find a new barber anyway. I generally have a policy of not spending money with people that stress me out if I have other options. And there's plenty of people that cut hair.

Sure.  Just go to a barber that takes walk-ins.  No problem with that.  But make appointments that you aren't sure you can be on time for?  Not a good practice.
Walkins for the haircut during holidays week?
Maybe at a self-service place....

Rothman

Quote from: kalvado on December 29, 2024, 04:14:08 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 04:11:35 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2024, 03:58:21 PMI dunno, I think if a barber was that up their own ass about the schedule I'd find a new barber anyway. I generally have a policy of not spending money with people that stress me out if I have other options. And there's plenty of people that cut hair.

Sure.  Just go to a barber that takes walk-ins.  No problem with that.  But make appointments that you aren't sure you can be on time for?  Not a good practice.
Walkins for the haircut during holidays week?
Maybe at a self-service place....

Pay the no-show fee then, if you don't show up.

I have yet to pay a no-show fee for a missed appointment over my decades of existence...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kalvado

Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 29, 2024, 04:12:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 03:38:57 PMSeems the moral of the story is not to be late.
There is always a non-zero chance of things not adding up.

Sure, and if it was a real emergency, that's one thing.  Losing track of time at work?  Not so much.
Would there be an appointment cancellation fee if the customer couldn't come due to serious medical conditions? I heard some service providers requesting cancellation fee to be paid in case of customer death as well. That's for long term service contracts like cell service, but yet.

Rothman

Quote from: kalvado on December 29, 2024, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 29, 2024, 04:12:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 03:38:57 PMSeems the moral of the story is not to be late.
There is always a non-zero chance of things not adding up.

Sure, and if it was a real emergency, that's one thing.  Losing track of time at work?  Not so much.
Would there be an appointment cancellation fee if the customer couldn't come due to serious medical conditions? I heard some service providers requesting cancellation fee to be paid in case of customer death as well. That's for long term service contracts like cell service, but yet.

Not what happened in this case.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2024, 03:58:21 PMI dunno, I think if a barber was that up their own ass about the schedule I'd find a new barber anyway. I generally have a policy of not spending money with people that stress me out if I have other options. And there's plenty of people that cut hair.

Which is obviously acceptable. And the owner sounds like he doesn't want to deal with people who stress him out as well.

webny99

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 03:49:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 03:38:57 PMSeems the moral of the story is not to be late.

Exactly. If he is on-time none of this is an issue. And then getting mad, and posting a bad review, because they enforced a no-show policy that he agreed to seems to be a bit much.

Just be on time.

Wow, you'd think I was *trying* to be late. Of course my goal was to be on time, and I was on track to be for most of the day before a bunch of last minute stuff happened.

And I wasn't mad, just disappointed.  :sombrero:

Rothman

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 04:27:11 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 03:49:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 03:38:57 PMSeems the moral of the story is not to be late.

Exactly. If he is on-time none of this is an issue. And then getting mad, and posting a bad review, because they enforced a no-show policy that he agreed to seems to be a bit much.

Just be on time.

Wow, you'd think I was *trying* to be late. Of course my goal was to be on time, and I was on track to be for most of the day before a bunch of last minute stuff happened.

And I wasn't mad, just disappointed.  :sombrero:

"Boss, as we arranged, I need to leave work to get to an appointment..."
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 04:27:11 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 03:49:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 03:38:57 PMSeems the moral of the story is not to be late.

Exactly. If he is on-time none of this is an issue. And then getting mad, and posting a bad review, because they enforced a no-show policy that he agreed to seems to be a bit much.

Just be on time.

Wow, you'd think I was *trying* to be late. Of course my goal was to be on time, and I was on track to be for most of the day before a bunch of last minute stuff happened.

And I wasn't mad, just disappointed.  :sombrero:

You were still late. You then agreed to the cancellation fee. Then still left a poor review.

And then made the owner sit on the phone with you for 20 minutes.

Honestly you're lucky they accepted you back as a customer.

Scott5114

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 04:26:06 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2024, 03:58:21 PMI dunno, I think if a barber was that up their own ass about the schedule I'd find a new barber anyway. I generally have a policy of not spending money with people that stress me out if I have other options. And there's plenty of people that cut hair.

Which is obviously acceptable. And the owner sounds like he doesn't want to deal with people who stress him out as well.

Which is his right, of course. But man, based on my experience with the General Public, I'd think he'd have to be a pretty freakin' special barber to be able to find enough people willing to put up with that to stay in business in this day and age.

Trying to put the screws to someone over a bad review is pretty unprofessional, though. I think some review sites penalize businesses that are reported doing things like that.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

webny99

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 04:34:10 PMYou were still late. You then agreed to the cancellation fee. Then still left a poor review.

Yeah, I'm aware. You're restating the obvious here.


QuoteAnd then made the owner sit on the phone with you for 20 minutes.

Actually it was entirely the other way around. He called me first and proceeded to do probably 75% of the talking when I called back. Honestly the vast majority of people in my situation wouldn't have the energy or the guts to call back in the first place, and I really only did so because I was curious and optimistic that he might be either apologizing, offering to credit my money back, or both. What I got couldn't have been more opposite.


QuoteHonestly you're lucky they accepted you back as a customer.

Ok, I am thoroughly confused now. If you think a business should refuse service to a loyal customer because of a bad review, you are missing the point and clearly lack understanding of (a) the purpose of Google reviews, (b) the purpose of customer service, and (c) how relationship building and client retention works in the real business world.

webny99

Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 04:32:33 PM"Boss, as we arranged, I need to leave work to get to an appointment..."

Normally, yes, but without getting even further in the weeds, it wasn't stuff I could hand back to my boss to finish, nor was it him or anyone else at work that detained me. Just my own perfectionism and lack of effective time management during the critical last hour, and I take 100% responsibility for having room to improve there.


SEWIGuy

I know entirely how customer acquisition and retention works. It's the business I am in. And I know that sometimes cutting bait with a difficult customer is for the best.

The customer simply isn't always right. And in your case, I can see how the business owner came to that conclusion.

jeffandnicole

So to understand what happened with the reviews: You've been going here for years. Never left a positive review.

You ran late, which wasn't the fault of the shop. They charged you a fee for missing the appointment, which you agreed to, regardless if you recall agreeing to that. You left a 1 star review.

Businesses hate people like you.  Even the 3 star review wasn't warranted. You said everything went well with the service you paid for.

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 28, 2024, 10:59:48 PMWhen an appointment is cancelled at the last minute, that's a loss of pay to the employee. Imagine if your job told you they're not going to pay you for 30-60 minutes. Oh, and you can't leave.

My response to that is: Why?

As far as I know, there's no legal requirement or mandate they employees can't get paid if they're not actively working, so it doesn't *have* to be that way. What about slow days, or appointments that go quicker than expected? It's not like the appointment revenue is going direct to the employee's paycheck - they're two separate things and it's ultimately up to the owners/managers of the company to decide how those situations will be handled.

I didn't say there was a legal requirement.  If you have any hairdresser friends, talk to them about how noshows affect their pay, and how they can't exactly just leave since they'll have minimal time between appointments, unless of course it's the last appointment of the day.

webny99

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2024, 04:35:27 PMTrying to put the screws to someone over a bad review is pretty unprofessional, though. I think some review sites penalize businesses that are reported doing things like that.

I thought so too, but didn't know how to convey that at the time. It was honestly a very weird experience to be talking about a Google review over the phone (that he was just assuming was mine since I don't post my name on Google, and I didn't even leave any specific comments or anything), yet his attitude was that the review was a threat to his business and that he'd already lost me as a customer.

That couldn't have been further from the truth - I literally rebooked my haircut with his company and he had a great opportunity to turn a dissatisfied customer into a long time loyal customer, but he simply could not see past the cancellation fee or the review.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2024, 04:35:27 PMTrying to put the screws to someone over a bad review is pretty unprofessional, though. I think some review sites penalize businesses that are reported doing things like that.

I thought so too, but didn't know how to convey that at the time. It was honestly a very weird experience to be talking about a Google review over the phone (that he was just assuming was mine since I don't post my name on Google, and I didn't even leave any specific comments or anything), yet his attitude was that the review was a threat to his business and that he'd already lost me as a customer.

That couldn't have been further from the truth - I literally rebooked my haircut with his company and he had a great opportunity to turn a dissatisfied customer into a long time loyal customer, but he simply could not see past the cancellation fee or the review.

"I ran late and violated the cancellation policy and left a poor review even though I agreed to pay it, but the business owner didn't do what I wanted so I'm leaving."

Such entitled nonsense.

Rothman

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 06:37:02 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 04:32:33 PM"Boss, as we arranged, I need to leave work to get to an appointment..."

Normally, yes, but without getting even further in the weeds, it wasn't stuff I could hand back to my boss to finish, nor was it him or anyone else at work that detained me. Just my own perfectionism and lack of effective time management during the critical last hour, and I take 100% responsibility for having room to improve there.



Glad to have my description of events confirmed.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

webny99

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2024, 06:48:15 PMBusinesses hate people like you. 

They're in business because of people like me, so I guess they hate being in business too.

webny99

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2024, 06:48:15 PM
QuoteAs far as I know, there's no legal requirement or mandate they employees can't get paid if they're not actively working, so it doesn't *have* to be that way. What about slow days, or appointments that go quicker than expected? It's not like the appointment revenue is going direct to the employee's paycheck - they're two separate things and it's ultimately up to the owners/managers of the company to decide how those situations will be handled.

I didn't say there was a legal requirement.  If you have any hairdresser friends, talk to them about how noshows affect their pay, and how they can't exactly just leave since they'll have minimal time between appointments, unless of course it's the last appointment of the day.

I'm not disputing that, but you're missing the point, which is that the owners/managers have control over whether or not to pay their employees in that situation.

In this case, I was talking with the owner. He kept saying "the barbers don't get paid if there's a cancellation", and he could have kept saying it until he was blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that not paying them is his choice. He's the owner. He could absolutely pay them and factor it in to the cost of doing business if he so chose, but he chose to protect his profits and enforce the cancellation fee instead.

webny99

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 07:08:21 PM"I ran late and violated the cancellation policy and left a poor review even though I agreed to pay it, but the business owner didn't do what I wanted so I'm leaving."

Such entitled nonsense.

Whoops, I think you forgot to read the text you quoted. In case it wasn't clear before, he *told* me to leave. He literally said "You are not welcome back and we'll be cancelling the appointment for tomorrow morning" before I said anything more than hello. It was a massive overreaction to a one star review that he clearly viewed as a threat when it was nothing of the sort.


SEWIGuy

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 08:18:12 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 07:08:21 PM"I ran late and violated the cancellation policy and left a poor review even though I agreed to pay it, but the business owner didn't do what I wanted so I'm leaving."

Such entitled nonsense.

Whoops, I think you forgot to read the text you quoted. In case it wasn't clear before, he *told* me to leave. He literally said "You are not welcome back and we'll be cancelling the appointment for tomorrow morning" before I said anything more than hello. It was a massive overreaction to a one star review that he clearly viewed as a threat when it was nothing of the sort.


It was an overreaction, but it is a sympathetic one in my opinion. Customers who think they are worth more than they truly are, and are largely going to be d-bags about it even though it was THEIR fault, aren't worth the effort to retain.

GaryV

Quote from: kalvado on December 29, 2024, 04:18:06 PMWould there be an appointment cancellation fee if the customer couldn't come due to serious medical conditions?

Not necessarily. A couple years ago we were on vacation when we were called home because my daughter was in the hospital. We called the hotel we were due to stay at that night, and they cancelled our reservation without penalty, even though we missed the 24-hour notice.

Rothman

Quote from: GaryV on December 29, 2024, 08:28:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 29, 2024, 04:18:06 PMWould there be an appointment cancellation fee if the customer couldn't come due to serious medical conditions?

Not necessarily. A couple years ago we were on vacation when we were called home because my daughter was in the hospital. We called the hotel we were due to stay at that night, and they cancelled our reservation without penalty, even though we missed the 24-hour notice.


Had to get a bulging tire replaced in Newfoundland that totally screwed up my travel plans.  Hotel had a "pay in full with too little notice" and didn't charge it due to the situation when I called.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.



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