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Service Cancellation Policies

Started by webny99, December 27, 2024, 10:31:11 PM

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webny99

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 08:22:16 PMCustomers who think they are worth more than they truly are, and are largely going to be d-bags about it even though it was THEIR fault, aren't worth the effort to retain.

I don't disagree with this sentiment, but I'm not in the barbershop business, so it's not my place to say if I'm overestimating my worth or not.

What I will say is that I've been there four times and paid more in tips in those four visits than the entire cancellation fee was worth. Crediting the fee would have guaranteed my business for at least a year. At ~8-10 cuts per year, that's triple the value of the fee right there. So I guess you can do the math, but like I said earlier, I think they're tripping over dollars to pick up pennies.


SEWIGuy

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 08:36:28 PMWhat I will say is that I've been there four times and paid more in tips in those four visits than the entire cancellation fee was worth.

How many positive Google reviews did you leave after those trips?

vdeane

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 28, 2024, 10:59:48 PMWhen an appointment is cancelled at the last minute, that's a loss of pay to the employee. Imagine if your job told you they're not going to pay you for 30-60 minutes. Oh, and you can't leave.

My response to that is: Why?

As far as I know, there's no legal requirement or mandate they employees can't get paid if they're not actively working, so it doesn't *have* to be that way. What about slow days, or appointments that go quicker than expected? It's not like the appointment revenue is going direct to the employee's paycheck - they're two separate things and it's ultimately up to the owners/managers of the company to decide how those situations will be handled.
Not everyone works salary.  People in the service sector typically work hourly or even per client (much like how many people in sales are paid per commission only).

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 06:28:28 PMActually it was entirely the other way around.
Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 01:53:11 PMso I stalled for time for a bit, let him do a bit more talking, and eventually after close to 20 minutes on the phone,
You're contradicting yourself here.

Seriously, it's not hard to see why they reacted as they did.  You made an appointment you couldn't guarantee you could keep, accepted the cancellation fee rather than re-book for the following week (which is what you should have done), then left a 1-star review because you only accepted the cancellation fee because you assumed you could get away with not paying it, and then proceeded to play games with the appointments.

Honestly, it probably wasn't hard for them to figure out it was you who left the review on Google.  Just because you posted "anonymously" doesn't mean they can't figure out who you were based on what you posted.  How many people do you think get called because they're running late, accept the cancellation fee rather than re-book with the same barber, and then proceed to leave a 1-star review?  Pro tip: nothing on the internet is truly anonymous unless you're extremely stingy with revealing information that can be linked to you and use a VPN/Tor.

They're not in business because of people like you.  They're in business because of people who actually keep their appointments.  If every customer acted like you, they'd bleed money so fast they'd be out of business before the paint dried on their walls.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

webny99

#53
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 08:38:43 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 08:36:28 PMWhat I will say is that I've been there four times and paid more in tips in those four visits than the entire cancellation fee was worth.

How many positive Google reviews did you leave after those trips?

Zero, but what does that have to do with anything? What do you think the purpose of Google reviews are, anyways?

IMO, since you asked: Reviews are helpful for informing the public and can be useful as a customer satisfaction metric for businesses in the aggregate, but they hold pretty much no value to the person writing them.

I have only 10 Google reviews posted currently. Seven are one or two stars (bad experiences), one is four stars (informative), one is five stars (positive feedback), and the last is the the three star one I left for the barbershop that I'm sure anyone could find pretty easily by now if they so desired.

I'm typically only inspired to post a review if I feel there's something the public should know about a place that's not already obvious or made clear by other reviews. I've never received a response to any of my reviews until now, and irony of all ironies, I've actually been a repeat customer of three of the places that I left one-star reviews  :-D

Just goes to show that reviews are a fickle and ultimately pretty meaningless tool that everyone uses in their own way for their own reasons.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 08:08:15 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2024, 06:48:15 PM
QuoteAs far as I know, there's no legal requirement or mandate they employees can't get paid if they're not actively working, so it doesn't *have* to be that way. What about slow days, or appointments that go quicker than expected? It's not like the appointment revenue is going direct to the employee's paycheck - they're two separate things and it's ultimately up to the owners/managers of the company to decide how those situations will be handled.

I didn't say there was a legal requirement.  If you have any hairdresser friends, talk to them about how noshows affect their pay, and how they can't exactly just leave since they'll have minimal time between appointments, unless of course it's the last appointment of the day.

I'm not disputing that, but you're missing the point, which is that the owners/managers have control over whether or not to pay their employees in that situation.

In this case, I was talking with the owner. He kept saying "the barbers don't get paid if there's a cancellation", and he could have kept saying it until he was blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that not paying them is his choice. He's the owner. He could absolutely pay them and factor it in to the cost of doing business if he so chose, but he chose to protect his profits and enforce the cancellation fee instead.


The barbers and hairdressers may not even be employees, but individual contractors. They rent a chair at the business. They bring their own supplies. They don't have a supply closest, but rather buy certain supplies from the business.

The business may get a percentage of the revenue to the barber. The barbers may make their own hours. They don't healthcare or vacation days or sick time. At the end of the year, they get a 1099, not a W-2.

webny99

#55
Quote from: vdeane on December 29, 2024, 09:11:27 PM
QuoteActually it was entirely the other way around.
Quoteso I stalled for time for a bit, let him do a bit more talking, and eventually after close to 20 minutes on the phone,
You're contradicting yourself here.

What's contradictory about that? He called to rant about a poor review, and I let him do exactly that. He chose to call (I chose to call back, same difference).



Quote from: vdeane on December 29, 2024, 09:11:27 PMYou made an appointment you couldn't guarantee you could keep

If you want to go down that road, that's literally every appointment ever booked.




Quote from: vdeane on December 29, 2024, 09:11:27 PMYou... accepted the cancellation fee rather than re-book for the following week (which is what you should have done),

To clarify regarding your entire post, rebooking with the same barber would NOT have waived the cancellation fee. I had to pay the cancellation fee no matter what, even if I rebooked with the same barber. I think that may be affecting your view on things and should help clarify why I accepted the cancellation fee despite being very hesitant: I literally had no choice at that point.

But just in case, I'll add that whether I should have re-booked for a week later is a personal hygiene decision and it happened to not work for me to wait that long. If I was saving the cancellation fee by doing so, I may have considered it, but that wasn't the case.

jeffandnicole

#56
Quote from: kalvado on December 29, 2024, 04:14:08 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2024, 04:11:35 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2024, 03:58:21 PMI dunno, I think if a barber was that up their own ass about the schedule I'd find a new barber anyway. I generally have a policy of not spending money with people that stress me out if I have other options. And there's plenty of people that cut hair.

Sure.  Just go to a barber that takes walk-ins.  No problem with that.  But make appointments that you aren't sure you can be on time for?  Not a good practice.
Walkins for the haircut during holidays week?

The barber shop I go to is this. Old school. 3 barbers, 6 waiting chairs. No appointments. No credit cards. If you go and want to wait for a specific barber you can. Anyone that's a regular there knows what to expect.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 29, 2024, 08:38:43 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 08:36:28 PMWhat I will say is that I've been there four times and paid more in tips in those four visits than the entire cancellation fee was worth.

How many positive Google reviews did you leave after those trips?

Zero,

So you are just a complainer.

Again it may be an overreaction, but I wouldn't want to deal with you either. Can't blame him.

webny99

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 30, 2024, 08:26:54 AM
Quote
QuoteHow many positive Google reviews did you leave after those trips?

Zero,

So you are just a complainer.

You are more than welcome to think that, but then the owner is even more of complainer for literally complaining to a customer about their review.

I also think you need to re-consider what I said about the value and purpose of reviews.

kalvado

Quote from: webny99 on December 30, 2024, 10:19:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 30, 2024, 08:26:54 AM
Quote
QuoteHow many positive Google reviews did you leave after those trips?

Zero,

So you are just a complainer.

You are more than welcome to think that, but then the owner is even more of complainer for literally complaining to a customer about their review.

I also think you need to re-consider what I said about the value and purpose of reviews.
Two wrongs don't make a single right in this case.
 I just suspect that the owner is sick and tired of those who take non-prepaid reservations as a mere suggestion.

vdeane

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 09:50:48 PM
Quote
QuoteActually it was entirely the other way around.
Quoteso I stalled for time for a bit, let him do a bit more talking, and eventually after close to 20 minutes on the phone,
You're contradicting yourself here.

What's contradictory about that? He called to rant about a poor review, and I let him do exactly that. He chose to call (I chose to call back, same difference).
You literally said that you stalled for time.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

hbelkins

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 01:53:11 PMSince I typically pay cash, I honestly didn't think they had my card on file to charge, but I checked an hour later and sure enough they'd already charged it. I was pretty annoyed by paying almost $30 for nothing (partly my own fault, I'm aware) so I dumped a one star review on Google and figured I'd see if anything came of it.


You should have disputed that charge with your credit card issuer.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: hbelkins on December 30, 2024, 02:46:16 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 01:53:11 PMSince I typically pay cash, I honestly didn't think they had my card on file to charge, but I checked an hour later and sure enough they'd already charged it. I was pretty annoyed by paying almost $30 for nothing (partly my own fault, I'm aware) so I dumped a one star review on Google and figured I'd see if anything came of it.


You should have disputed that charge with your credit card issuer.

This issue isn't what credit card disputes are for.  The agreement was in place for the merchant to charge the credit card for a no-show fee. That's exactly what occurred.

If webny went to his appointment, paid for it, and didn't receive a haircut, then he can dispute that.

Also, if the credit card company decides a dispute may be valid, they will contact the merchant.  If the owner is already unhappy with webny, things aren't going to get any better.

webny99

#63
Quote from: vdeane on December 30, 2024, 12:47:37 PM
QuoteWhat's contradictory about that? He called to rant about a poor review, and I let him do exactly that. He chose to call (I chose to call back, same difference).
You literally said that you stalled for time.

We are verging on beating a dead horse here, but there is no significance in that distinction because it was his choice to be on the phone with me in the first place. "Stalling for time" was simply inherent to the bizarre nature of the conversation.




Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 30, 2024, 03:01:35 PMIf webny went to his appointment, paid for it, and didn't receive a haircut, then he can dispute that.

Technically, I did "go" to my appointment and came as close as driving by the building. I was certainly in no mood to walk in and see what happened at that point, though maybe things would have turned out better if I had.

Rothman

"I drove by your business and didn't stop, so I shouldn't have to pay the cancellation fee" actually made me crack a smile.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

webny99

Quote from: Rothman on December 30, 2024, 03:27:54 PM"I drove by your business and didn't stop, so I shouldn't have to pay the cancellation fee" actually made me crack a smile.

I'm glad you can appreciate the irony.

CtrlAltDel

It seems like the goal of this thread was to get all of us upset about cancelation fees so as to ultimately generate sympathy for the OP and the situation he got himself into.
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webny99

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 30, 2024, 04:15:45 PMIt seems like the goal of this thread was to get all of us upset about cancelation fees so as to ultimately generate sympathy for the OP and the situation he got himself into.

Ha, I have been around here MUCH too long to expect that. Enough said about my experiences though. I really just wanted an interesting discussion around business policies, customer service, and Google reviews.

jeffandnicole

#68
Quote from: webny99 on December 30, 2024, 03:14:24 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 30, 2024, 03:01:35 PMIf webny went to his appointment, paid for it, and didn't receive a haircut, then he can dispute that.

Technically, I did "go" to my appointment and came as close as driving by the building. I was certainly in no mood to walk in and see what happened at that point, though maybe things would have turned out better if I had.

In hindsight, you absolutely should've stopped in.  There you would've seen your actual barber, and he/she may have had the time to give you the haircut anyway, or come up with another time slot that works for the both of you.

Or, look, any good barbershop has some mob affiliation to it.  You're in New York.  I'm from Joisey.  Money talks.  Slip someone a 20 and suddenly problems are forgotten.  If players and fans can literally barter for goods in the middle of a pro-football game in South Philly, you can barter for a haircut 15 minutes past your appointment time in upstate New York.  Or give them a folding table.  Whatever works.

davewiecking

Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 04:27:11 PMWow, you'd think I was *trying* to be late. Of course my goal was to be on time, and I was on track to be for most of the day before a bunch of last minute stuff happened.

You were on time until it came time to be on time, then you weren't? You expect the barber to give you a gold star for  being on time most of the day? A pat on the head maybe?

webny99

#70
Quote from: davewiecking on December 30, 2024, 08:34:41 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2024, 04:27:11 PMWow, you'd think I was *trying* to be late. Of course my goal was to be on time, and I was on track to be for most of the day before a bunch of last minute stuff happened.

You were on time until it came time to be on time, then you weren't? You expect the barber to give you a gold star for  being on time most of the day? A pat on the head maybe?

I would have preferred a haircut, actually. :eyebrow:

vdeane

Quote from: webny99 on December 30, 2024, 03:14:24 PM"Stalling for time" was simply inherent to the bizarre nature of the conversation.
"Stalling for time" is a statement of intent.  It means that you let it drag on longer than it otherwise would have in the hopes that circumstances would somehow change.  It does not mean "I would have ended the conversation sooner but the guy decided to yap for a while".
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

webny99

Quote from: vdeane on December 30, 2024, 09:23:56 PM
Quote"Stalling for time" was simply inherent to the bizarre nature of the conversation.
"Stalling for time" is a statement of intent.  It means that you let it drag on longer than it otherwise would have in the hopes that circumstances would somehow change.  It does not mean "I would have ended the conversation sooner but the guy decided to yap for a while".

Of course I was hoping that the circumstances would change. Why else would I have called back in the first place?

webny99

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 30, 2024, 06:24:46 PMMoney talks.  Slip someone a 20 and suddenly problems are forgotten. 

Haha, some tremendous irony there considering that a 20 and change was what *started* the problems here. :sombrero:

vdeane

Quote from: webny99 on December 30, 2024, 09:59:54 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 30, 2024, 09:23:56 PM
Quote"Stalling for time" was simply inherent to the bizarre nature of the conversation.
"Stalling for time" is a statement of intent.  It means that you let it drag on longer than it otherwise would have in the hopes that circumstances would somehow change.  It does not mean "I would have ended the conversation sooner but the guy decided to yap for a while".

Of course I was hoping that the circumstances would change. Why else would I have called back in the first place?
I meant after the call had started...

Is there some generational thing going on?  Is this like boomers getting exasperated at how my generation and people younger use the word "literally" (as in, "I have literally seen people's heads explode over this")?  Or how one of my high school teachers felt the urge to correct us whenever we used "like" (as in "it was, like, 50 degrees outside")?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



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