How to switch careers when you're 51?

[Max Rockatansky]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

[kernals12]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

So what? We all have to start somewhere

Edit: Also, it depends on your idea of "well paying".

[Max Rockatansky]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

So what? We all have to start somewhere

Edit: Also, it depends on your idea of "well paying".

So what is your point of contention?  All I was pointing out was that anything but entry-level wasn't likely to be obtainable with just hobby experience.  If that is worth it to Bandit, I don't see that as bad per se.  It seems that you agree?

In the area Bandit lives I would imagine well paying is likely less than where I reside. 

[kphoger]

Is the Pope Catholic?

That's a good question these days...  [/religion]

[kernals12]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

So what? We all have to start somewhere

Edit: Also, it depends on your idea of "well paying".

So what is your point of contention?  All I was pointing out was that anything but entry-level wasn't likely to be obtainable with just hobby experience.  If that is worth it to Bandit, I don't see that as bad per se.  It seems that you agree?

In the area Bandit lives I would imagine well paying is likely less than where I reside. 

You questioned whether his hobby experience with GIS would get him an "actual job". Now you're moving to goalpost to "anything but entry level".

[JayhawkCO]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

So what? We all have to start somewhere

Edit: Also, it depends on your idea of "well paying".

So what is your point of contention?  All I was pointing out was that anything but entry-level wasn't likely to be obtainable with just hobby experience.  If that is worth it to Bandit, I don't see that as bad per se.  It seems that you agree?

In the area Bandit lives I would imagine well paying is likely less than where I reside. 

You questioned whether his hobby experience with GIS would get him an "actual job". Now you're moving to goalpost to "anything but entry level".

I would argue that hobby interests have a tough time getting an entry-level "career path" job. Just liking to dabble in coding isn't going to get you an entry level job at Google, for instance.

[Scott5114]

Given that I know two people with actual college degrees in GIS who are both working in unrelated fields because they weren't able to find anything that used their degree, applying for a GIS job with "I mess around with QGIS in my spare time" as your experience probably isn't too likely to be successful.

[kernals12]

Given that I know two people with actual college degrees in GIS who are both working in unrelated fields because they weren't able to find anything that used their degree, applying for a GIS job with "I mess around with QGIS in my spare time" as your experience probably isn't too likely to be successful.

The fact that he's created maps should pique the interest of employers.

And he says he's worked with Python, that's also something.

My point is that he clearly has some skills and I think he should be able to find a job that will keep a roof over his head.

[JayhawkCO]

Given that I know two people with actual college degrees in GIS who are both working in unrelated fields because they weren't able to find anything that used their degree, applying for a GIS job with "I mess around with QGIS in my spare time" as your experience probably isn't too likely to be successful.

The fact that he's created maps should pique the interest of employers.

And he says he's worked with Python, that's also something.

My point is that he clearly has some skills and I think he should be able to find a job that will keep a roof over his head.

I'm not disagreeing with skills acquired. I would just argue they're not particularly marketable.

[bandit957]

I'm not disagreeing with skills acquired. I would just argue they're not particularly marketable.

That's a problem I've always had. When I started college, I decided I would major in radio/TV. People warned me to pick something else, because they said radio/TV wasn't marketable. They thought I should major in some healthcare field, which I didn't have any interest in.

[JayhawkCO]

I'm not disagreeing with skills acquired. I would just argue they're not particularly marketable.

That's a problem I've always had. When I started college, I decided I would major in radio/TV. People warned me to pick something else, because they said radio/TV wasn't marketable. They thought I should major in some healthcare field, which I didn't have any interest in.

I understand not wanting to be in a field that doesn't interest you. If I'm completely honest, my current job bores the hell out of me (hence why I can spend time on AARoads), but I have a family and it's a means to an end.

[Max Rockatansky]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

So what? We all have to start somewhere

Edit: Also, it depends on your idea of "well paying".

So what is your point of contention?  All I was pointing out was that anything but entry-level wasn't likely to be obtainable with just hobby experience.  If that is worth it to Bandit, I don't see that as bad per se.  It seems that you agree?

In the area Bandit lives I would imagine well paying is likely less than where I reside. 

You questioned whether his hobby experience with GIS would get him an "actual job". Now you're moving to goalpost to "anything but entry level".

Still a tall order even getting an entry level job in that scenario.  You seem to think that it is a sure thing when a lot of us are telling you it isn't.

[GaryV]

Is the Pope Catholic?

That's a good question these days...  [/religion]

Paraphrasing Ted Baxter, character on the Mary Tyler Moore show: "I'm pretty sure he is. I don't know about the last one though."

[kphoger]

Paraphrasing Ted Baxter, character on the Mary Tyler Moore show: "I'm pretty sure he is. I don't know about the last one though."

John XXIII ain't got nothin' on this guy! 

[Scott5114]

The fact that he's created maps should pique the interest of employers.

It should but it doesn't.

Job postings these days are filled algorithmically in most large companies. If you don't meet the qualifications they have listed, your application gets filtered out before an actual human ever sees it.

And even if you have a human looking at it, if you have an applicant with a GIS degree, why would you turn them down for someone who is self-educated? You don't know what gaps a self-educated person might have in their knowledge.

Hell, that assumes that the jobs posted even exist. 8 in 10 recruiters post job listings with no intent to hire anyone, for the purposes of making the company look like it's doing better than it actually is.

[thspfc]

The fact that he's created maps should pique the interest of employers.

It should but it doesn't.

Job postings these days are filled algorithmically in most large companies. If you don't meet the qualifications they have listed, your application gets filtered out before an actual human ever sees it.

And even if you have a human looking at it, if you have an applicant with a GIS degree, why would you turn them down for someone who is self-educated? You don't know what gaps a self-educated person might have in their knowledge.

Hell, that assumes that the jobs posted even exist. 8 in 10 recruiters post job listings with no intent to hire anyone, for the purposes of making the company look like it's doing better than it actually is.

I'm not disagreeing with the content of the post or the article, but it's worth pointing out that the statistic is intentionally misleading to the subset of our population that can't read. It's not 8 in 10 jobs are fake - not even close based on the article. It's that 8 in 10 recruiters, most of whom post many different jobs, have posted a fake job before or believes that their company has.

What do you mean by that?

I can never read this sentence in any other tone besides this
https://youtu.be/b8G0ni2TTac?si=CnbMU3-QvJ1YrHTx

[SEWIGuy]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

So what? We all have to start somewhere

Edit: Also, it depends on your idea of "well paying".

So what is your point of contention?  All I was pointing out was that anything but entry-level wasn't likely to be obtainable with just hobby experience.  If that is worth it to Bandit, I don't see that as bad per se.  It seems that you agree?

In the area Bandit lives I would imagine well paying is likely less than where I reside. 

You questioned whether his hobby experience with GIS would get him an "actual job". Now you're moving to goalpost to "anything but entry level".

Still a tall order even getting an entry level job in that scenario.  You seem to think that it is a sure thing when a lot of us are telling you it isn't.

Yeah sorry but a 51 year old without a degree and no history in the field as a professional isn't getting even an entry level GIS position because he dabbles in it as a hobby. I guarantee employers would rather hire a 22 year old straight out of college.

It reminds me of the guy here who marketed himself as a transportation consultant because he likes maps. The dude whose picture included a cigar.

[Max Rockatansky]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

So what? We all have to start somewhere

Edit: Also, it depends on your idea of "well paying".

So what is your point of contention?  All I was pointing out was that anything but entry-level wasn't likely to be obtainable with just hobby experience.  If that is worth it to Bandit, I don't see that as bad per se.  It seems that you agree?

In the area Bandit lives I would imagine well paying is likely less than where I reside. 

You questioned whether his hobby experience with GIS would get him an "actual job". Now you're moving to goalpost to "anything but entry level".

Still a tall order even getting an entry level job in that scenario.  You seem to think that it is a sure thing when a lot of us are telling you it isn't.

Yeah sorry but a 51 year old without a degree and no history in the field as a professional isn't getting even an entry level GIS position because he dabbles in it as a hobby. I guarantee employers would rather hire a 22 year old straight out of college.

It reminds me of the guy here who marketed himself as a transportation consultant because he likes maps. The dude whose picture included a cigar.

Ah yes, Fiddler something.  He got a hard rebuff on some Facebook road groups for much of the same also.

[kernals12]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

So what? We all have to start somewhere

Edit: Also, it depends on your idea of "well paying".

So what is your point of contention?  All I was pointing out was that anything but entry-level wasn't likely to be obtainable with just hobby experience.  If that is worth it to Bandit, I don't see that as bad per se.  It seems that you agree?

In the area Bandit lives I would imagine well paying is likely less than where I reside. 

You questioned whether his hobby experience with GIS would get him an "actual job". Now you're moving to goalpost to "anything but entry level".

Still a tall order even getting an entry level job in that scenario.  You seem to think that it is a sure thing when a lot of us are telling you it isn't.

Yeah sorry but a 51 year old without a degree and no history in the field as a professional isn't getting even an entry level GIS position because he dabbles in it as a hobby. I guarantee employers would rather hire a 22 year old straight out of college.

It reminds me of the guy here who marketed himself as a transportation consultant because he likes maps. The dude whose picture included a cigar.

I'd hardly call spending days at a time on such projects as "dabbling"

[Max Rockatansky]

Dabbling or not, this wasn't something close to professional:
 
https://fiddling-with-maps.webador.com/what-s-inside

[SEWIGuy]

But is using GIS tools for your own private enjoyment going to get you in the door to an actual job which uses them? 

Is the Pope Catholic?

Unless the aim is at entry-level there is a pretty big barrier to changing career fields in anything.  Someone using GIS tools for fun probably isn't getting anyone a well paying related job.  That doesn't mean it can't be built upon, but it would take time to develop a serious career.

So what? We all have to start somewhere

Edit: Also, it depends on your idea of "well paying".

So what is your point of contention?  All I was pointing out was that anything but entry-level wasn't likely to be obtainable with just hobby experience.  If that is worth it to Bandit, I don't see that as bad per se.  It seems that you agree?

In the area Bandit lives I would imagine well paying is likely less than where I reside. 

You questioned whether his hobby experience with GIS would get him an "actual job". Now you're moving to goalpost to "anything but entry level".

Still a tall order even getting an entry level job in that scenario.  You seem to think that it is a sure thing when a lot of us are telling you it isn't.

Yeah sorry but a 51 year old without a degree and no history in the field as a professional isn't getting even an entry level GIS position because he dabbles in it as a hobby. I guarantee employers would rather hire a 22 year old straight out of college.

It reminds me of the guy here who marketed himself as a transportation consultant because he likes maps. The dude whose picture included a cigar.

I'd hardly call spending days at a time on such projects as "dabbling"

From an employer's point of view, it's just a hobbyist's dabbling.

[Scott5114]

I think everyone can agree that spending days on end on a self-directed project means that someone is likely to have more skill at whatever they're working on than someone who has no experience at all at it. But that's usually not enough when you're competing with someone who actually has paid experience in the field, or a degree in it, because those are likely to confer knowledge that isn't obvious to someone who just picked it up for personal enrichment.

Case in point, one of the people I know with a GIS degree made a map once. I commented on his font choices, and he mentioned offhand that the convention he was taught in school was that wide-area features like counties and states should be labeled with serif fonts, water features should get italic serif fonts, and other types of features get sans-serif fonts. Makes sense, but that's not something you'd be guaranteed to pick up just by doing your own QGIS project.

[SEWIGuy]

I think everyone can agree that spending days on end on a self-directed project means that someone is likely to have more skill at whatever they're working on than someone who has no experience at all at it. But that's usually not enough when you're competing with someone who actually has paid experience in the field, or a degree in it, because those are likely to confer knowledge that isn't obvious to someone who just picked it up for personal enrichment.

Case in point, one of the people I know with a GIS degree made a map once. I commented on his font choices, and he mentioned offhand that the convention he was taught in school was that wide-area features like counties and states should be labeled with serif fonts, water features should get italic serif fonts, and other types of features get sans-serif fonts. Makes sense, but that's not something you'd be guaranteed to pick up just by doing your own QGIS project.

Exactly. Furthermore someone who has graduated with a GIS degree has oftentimes worked as an intern, or gathered some type of experience, that would indicate how they manage projects, handle themselves in a team environment, etc.

I am certainly not saying that bandit couldn't do the job. But that employers aren't going to take a chance on hiring someone with his background when they would likely be numerous applicants with work experience and a degree in the field.

[GaryV]

At 51, I was given an awful lot of money by my company to take early retirement. Enough to live on if we were very frugal, but not enough to fund regular retirement. I took the offer for several reasons.

So I went looking. I realized that even with my decades of experience, what I was doing was mostly self-taught. I'd modernized the old FORTRAN programs we used and converted them to run in MSAccess database, which I had picked up on my own at home.

I went to a "not a job fair" networking thing at Lawrence Tech University. They encouraged me to look at their graduate program. Naw, I didn't really want to go back to school, did I? But the more I looked at it, and realizing that I'd need provable skills that weren't just picked up on my own, and the fact that it was a very, very good deal, I went back to school for 2 years while we economized at home to live on the early retirement pension. It served me well - I was able to work for another decade, and was able to put a lot into my retirement funds.

[Rothman]

All I can say is that, if you meet the minimum requirements, getting a job with the State of NY is now easier than in the robot-resume-reading private sector.  Never put anyone through more than one interview and have never seen the need.