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Why All the Toll Bridges on the NJ/PA Border?

Started by Bobby5280, February 03, 2024, 12:40:43 AM

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Bobby5280

I was doing a bit of Google Earth surfing. I lived in the NYC area during my college years, so I was checking out a couple spots on I-78. It was a common entry-exit corridor in/out of the Greater NYC area. I remember the former I-78 corridor thru the Allentown-Bethlehem metro being tolled across the Delaware River. But I didn't realize the newer South bypass for I-78 was tolled as well. Then I got to looking further. Just about every highway of significance is tolled crossing from New Jersey into Pennsylvania. It's free going East. But you're gonna pay going West. Funny thing: the toll bridges stop happening when the Delaware River turns into a NY/PA border, starting with I-84. So this seems to be a New Jersey vs Pennsylvania thing.

As far as I can tell, the NJ/PA border has more toll bridges along it than any other US state to state border. At least 16 toll bridges if I counted correctly. And on the free to cross bridges in the various little townships, most of those damned things have traffic signals and guard shacks.

Is there something the folks in New Jersey and Pennsylvania aren't telling the rest of us in the country? Is the Delaware River a secret demilitarized zone? Are they prepared to go to war one day or something?

Here's a list of all the crossings from the mouth of the Delaware River up to the first fully free major highway crossing in New York State (moving South to North, not counting railroad bridges):

• US-9 Ferry (Toll)
• Fortis Ferry Crossing (Apr-Oct, no cars)(Toll)
• I-295 Wilmington (Toll)
• US-322 Bridgeport (Toll)
• I-76 Walt Whitman Bridge • Philadelphia (Toll)
• I-676 Ben Franklin Bridge • Philadelphia (Toll)
• NJ-90 Besty Ross Bridge • Philadelphia (Toll)
• NJ-73 Tacony Palmyra Bridge • Philadelphia (Toll)
• PA-413 Burlington Bristol Bridge • Philadelphia (Toll)
• I-95 PA TPK/NJ TPK Extension • Philadelphia (Toll)
• US-1 Trenton (Toll)
• Lincoln Highway • Trenton (Free)
• Calhoun Street Bridge • Trenton (Free)
• I-295 Trenton (Toll)
• Washington Crossing (Free)
• Bridge Street • New Hope, PA; Lambertville, NJ (Free)
• US-202 New Hope, PA (Toll)
• Bridge Street • Stockton, NJ (Free)
• Pedestrian Bridge • Lumberville, PA (Free)
• Bridge Street • Frenchtown, NJ (Free)
• Bridge Street • Milford, NJ (Free)
• Delaware Road • Riegelsville, PA (Free)
• I-78, Williamsport, PA Bypass (Toll)
• US-22, Phillipsburg, NJ (Toll)
• Water Street • Belvidere, NJ (Free)
• NJ-94 Portland Columbia Bridge (Toll)
• Portland Columbia Pedestrian Bridge (Free)
• I-80 East Stroudsburg, PA (Toll)
• US-206 Montague, NJ (Toll)
• I-84 Carpenters Point (Free)


Great Lakes Roads

It's pretty much a New Jersey thing...

NY
Outerbridge Crossing (toll)
Goethals Bridge (toll)
Bayonne Bridge (toll)
Holland Tunnel (toll)
Lincoln Tunnel (toll)
George Washington Bridge (toll)

Bridges and tunnels are expensive infrastructure to maintain and operate, so they have to either:
a) make one of the DOTs do the majority of the work (NJDOT or PennDOT)
b) make a tolling entity that will operate and maintain a set of infrastructure pieces (DRJTBC, PANYNJ, etc.)

jeffandnicole

They are bi-state authorities formed with approval by the federal government, with the President's signature.

Per the DRPA website for what ultimately became their 4 bridges.  The first bridge was what is known now as the Ben Franklin Bridge.  The second bridge referenced is the Walt Whitman Bridge.

JULY 17, 1951
After Pennsylvania and New Jersey reach an agreement, President Harry S. Truman signs the bill creating the Delaware River Port Authority as the successor agency to the Delaware River Bridge Joint Commission. The legislation gives the new agency the responsibility to promote international trade for Delaware River ports. President Truman also signs a companion bill that permits construction of a second bridge across the Delaware River.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 03, 2024, 12:40:43 AM
And on the free to cross bridges in the various little townships, most of those damned things have traffic signals and guard shacks.

Also to point this out: These bridges (starting in Trenton and going North) are all toll-supported bridges owned by the DRJTBC. Some have traffic signals on either end of the bridge because of crossroads located near the bridge. The guard shacks are utilized by the commission for a place their security/police detail and maintenance detail can use.

jp the roadgeek

Additional Delaware crossing: Northampton St Bridge in Easton (free)
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

mariethefoxy

The Scudders Falls bridge (now 295) used to be free until they redid it.

tmoore952

Deleted old post and rewrote to correct errors I posted the first time around.

I have used all of these crossings except the Fortis Ferry crossing (which I have never heard of) and the Portland Columbia pedestrian bridge, which I did not know about.

There are at least two road bridges upstream of Trenton that were destroyed by floodwaters.

One was at Point Pleasant PA, a couple miles upstream from Lumberville pedestrian bridge. This was destroyed by Hurricane Diane floodwaters in 1955.
Another one around Delaware, NJ (between Belvidere NJ and Columbia NJ) --- possibly also by Hurricane Diane but I am not sure about that. I think US 46 used to cross this bridge and immediately terminate at then-US 611 on the PA side. Once this bridge no longer existed, US 46 was extended northward along the NJ side to Columbia. And so US 46 became in intrastate route only.

You can still see the foundations of the old Point Pleasant Bridge.
I only recently became aware of the Delaware, NJ bridge and therefore have not seen this site.

IIRC, all of the toll bridges north of US 1 were toll at the time I was driving on them (1990s), with the exception of the already mentioned Scudder Falls Bridge.

elsmere241

And the rule of thumb at least is that you have to pay to leave New Jersey.

NE2

Historically they were toll bridges because states didn't want to build interstate crossings, so they were left to private companies (and later interstate authorities). Other state lines have or had relatively small toll bridges that would most likely be free if they were intrastate:
http://www.oldtownbridge.com/photos.htm
http://www.bridgemeister.com/pic.php?pid=2112
https://iowadot.gov/historicbridges/historic-bridges/st-francisville-bridge
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Bobby5280

Quote from: tmoore952I have used all of these crossings except the Fortis Ferry crossing (which I have never heard of) and the Portland Columbia pedestrian bridge, which I did not know about.

It runs from Delaware City, DE to a point near Pennsville Township in New Jersey, several miles South of the I-295 bridge crossing from DE to NJ.

roadman65

Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 04, 2024, 12:49:57 AM
Quote from: tmoore952I have used all of these crossings except the Fortis Ferry crossing (which I have never heard of) and the Portland Columbia pedestrian bridge, which I did not know about.

It runs from Delaware City, DE to a point near Pennsville Township in New Jersey, several miles South of the I-295 bridge crossing from DE to NJ.

Fort Mott, NJ to be exact.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

tmoore952

#11
Quote from: roadman65 on February 04, 2024, 08:24:06 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 04, 2024, 12:49:57 AM
Quote from: tmoore952I have used all of these crossings except the Fortis Ferry crossing (which I have never heard of) and the Portland Columbia pedestrian bridge, which I did not know about.

It runs from Delaware City, DE to a point near Pennsville Township in New Jersey, several miles South of the I-295 bridge crossing from DE to NJ.

Fort Mott, NJ to be exact.

If this is the ferry that stops at Fort Delaware along the way, then I have taken this from Delaware City to Fort Delaware, in the early 1980s. I don't remember it going to NJ then. It also wasn't called Fortis Ferry then. Which is why I said I had never heard of it.

I thought I heard a few years back about resurrecting the ferry service from New Castle DE to Pennsville NJ. Did that ever happen?

roadman65

Quote from: tmoore952 on February 04, 2024, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 04, 2024, 08:24:06 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 04, 2024, 12:49:57 AM
Quote from: tmoore952I have used all of these crossings except the Fortis Ferry crossing (which I have never heard of) and the Portland Columbia pedestrian bridge, which I did not know about.

It runs from Delaware City, DE to a point near Pennsville Township in New Jersey, several miles South of the I-295 bridge crossing from DE to NJ.

Fort Mott, NJ to be exact.

If this is the ferry that stops at Fort Delaware along the way, then I have taken this from Delaware City to Fort Delaware, in the early 1980s. I don't remember it going to NJ then. It also wasn't called Fortis Ferry then. Which is why I said I had never heard of it.

I thought I heard a few years back about resurrecting the ferry service from New Castle DE to Pennsville NJ. Did that ever happen?

I googled the Fortis Ferry and this crossing never appeared in results. I had to research it further to find info on it.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Alps

Quote from: tmoore952 on February 03, 2024, 11:33:32 AM

You can still see the foundations of the old Point Pleasant Bridge.
I only recently became aware of the Delaware, NJ bridge and therefore have not seen this site.

IIRC, all of the toll bridges north of US 1 were toll at the time I was driving on them (1990s), with the exception of the already mentioned Scudder Falls Bridge.
The Delaware, NJ bridge is NJ 163. I had a road meet stop there and it is well worth a visit.

kernals12

It's because the two states are separated by a wide river and crossing over it requires bridges that are very expensive to build and maintain. It's the same reason why every crossing of the Hudson south of Albany is tolled.


tmoore952

Quote from: kernals12 on February 06, 2024, 08:40:53 AM
It's because the two states are separated by a wide river and crossing over it requires bridges that are very expensive to build and maintain. It's the same reason why every crossing of the Hudson south of Albany is tolled.

The Delaware River isn't very wide north of Trenton.

Bobby5280

The Amtrak rail line bridge across the Delaware River in Trenton is the dead end point for any barge traffic. Going North past Trenton the Delaware River gets pretty ordinary.

kramie13

You have to pay a toll going west on I-80 from NJ into PA.

You have to pay a toll going east on the George Washington Bridge from NJ into NY.

Is New Jersey charging an "exit toll" to leave that state?  Is that even constitutional?

jeffandnicole

Quote from: kramie13 on February 08, 2024, 12:17:46 PM
You have to pay a toll going west on I-80 from NJ into PA.

You have to pay a toll going east on the George Washington Bridge from NJ into NY.

Is New Jersey charging an "exit toll" to leave that state?  Is that even constitutional?

It's often joked that you want to get out of New Jersey so badly, you need to pay to leave. However,  it's more innocent than that. Over the years, the toll agencies had 2 way tolls, so you were paying in both directions. When the tolling agencies & authorities switched to one way tolling, they independently decided which direction to toll, which happens to be leaving the state.

NJ itself isn't charging the toll. In fact, I don't think they receive any of the revenue from those tolls.

Also, there are numerous ways to leave the state without paying a toll. Several bridges over the Delaware River between NJ & PA don't charge a toll. And all the land crossings between NJ & NY don't charge a toll.

tmoore952

#19
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 08, 2024, 12:34:29 PM
Quote from: kramie13 on February 08, 2024, 12:17:46 PM
You have to pay a toll going west on I-80 from NJ into PA.

You have to pay a toll going east on the George Washington Bridge from NJ into NY.

Is New Jersey charging an "exit toll" to leave that state?  Is that even constitutional?

It's often joked that you want to get out of New Jersey so badly, you need to pay to leave. However,  it's more innocent than that. Over the years, the toll agencies had 2 way tolls, so you were paying in both directions. When the tolling agencies & authorities switched to one way tolling, they independently decided which direction to toll, which happens to be leaving the state.

NJ itself isn't charging the toll. In fact, I don't think they receive any of the revenue from those tolls.

Also, there are numerous ways to leave the state without paying a toll. Several bridges over the Delaware River between NJ & PA don't charge a toll. And all the land crossings between NJ & NY don't charge a toll.

At the risk of stating the obvious, but I'll do so anyway --- the one-way tolls over each river all need to be in the same direction to avoid what I'll call "shun-tolling" to avoid all tolls over that particular river (I remember this being mentioned in the Philadelphia newspapers at the time the change was made from two-way tolling to one-way tolling - for the Delaware River this would be important only in the Philly area and south where all the bridges are tolled). I'm not privy as to why it was decided that leaving NJ was the direction to be tolled..
==============================

However, expanding the topic slightly, if the Verazzano Bridge is also a one-way toll, is there a (toll-cost) advantage to go from NJ to Long Island (or vice versa-- depending on which direction the Verazzano is tolled) by way of Manhattan and using a free bridge over the East River instead? (not that it would be any faster) 

Alps

Quote from: tmoore952 on February 08, 2024, 06:49:16 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 08, 2024, 12:34:29 PM
Quote from: kramie13 on February 08, 2024, 12:17:46 PM
You have to pay a toll going west on I-80 from NJ into PA.

You have to pay a toll going east on the George Washington Bridge from NJ into NY.

Is New Jersey charging an "exit toll" to leave that state?  Is that even constitutional?

It's often joked that you want to get out of New Jersey so badly, you need to pay to leave. However,  it's more innocent than that. Over the years, the toll agencies had 2 way tolls, so you were paying in both directions. When the tolling agencies & authorities switched to one way tolling, they independently decided which direction to toll, which happens to be leaving the state.

NJ itself isn't charging the toll. In fact, I don't think they receive any of the revenue from those tolls.

Also, there are numerous ways to leave the state without paying a toll. Several bridges over the Delaware River between NJ & PA don't charge a toll. And all the land crossings between NJ & NY don't charge a toll.

At the risk of stating the obvious, but I'll do so anyway --- the one-way tolls over each river all need to be in the same direction to avoid what I'll call "shun-tolling" to avoid all tolls over that particular river (I remember this being mentioned in the Philadelphia newspapers at the time the change was made from two-way tolling to one-way tolling - for the Delaware River this would be important only in the Philly area and south where all the bridges are tolled). I'm not privy as to why it was decided that leaving NJ was the direction to be tolled..
==============================

However, expanding the topic slightly, if the Verazzano Bridge is also a one-way toll, is there a (toll-cost) advantage to go from NJ to Long Island (or vice versa-- depending on which direction the Verazzano is tolled) by way of Manhattan and using a free bridge over the East River instead? (not that it would be any faster) 
1) It is always a toll entering the city. Philly or NYC. And all other bridges on the same river follow suit (including within NYS).
2) Verrazano is 2-way now. But when it was 1-way, you wanted to use 278 going into Long Island and through Manhattan going home.

Rothman

Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2024, 07:34:46 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on February 08, 2024, 06:49:16 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 08, 2024, 12:34:29 PM
Quote from: kramie13 on February 08, 2024, 12:17:46 PM
You have to pay a toll going west on I-80 from NJ into PA.

You have to pay a toll going east on the George Washington Bridge from NJ into NY.

Is New Jersey charging an "exit toll" to leave that state?  Is that even constitutional?

It's often joked that you want to get out of New Jersey so badly, you need to pay to leave. However,  it's more innocent than that. Over the years, the toll agencies had 2 way tolls, so you were paying in both directions. When the tolling agencies & authorities switched to one way tolling, they independently decided which direction to toll, which happens to be leaving the state.

NJ itself isn't charging the toll. In fact, I don't think they receive any of the revenue from those tolls.

Also, there are numerous ways to leave the state without paying a toll. Several bridges over the Delaware River between NJ & PA don't charge a toll. And all the land crossings between NJ & NY don't charge a toll.

At the risk of stating the obvious, but I'll do so anyway --- the one-way tolls over each river all need to be in the same direction to avoid what I'll call "shun-tolling" to avoid all tolls over that particular river (I remember this being mentioned in the Philadelphia newspapers at the time the change was made from two-way tolling to one-way tolling - for the Delaware River this would be important only in the Philly area and south where all the bridges are tolled). I'm not privy as to why it was decided that leaving NJ was the direction to be tolled..
==============================

However, expanding the topic slightly, if the Verazzano Bridge is also a one-way toll, is there a (toll-cost) advantage to go from NJ to Long Island (or vice versa-- depending on which direction the Verazzano is tolled) by way of Manhattan and using a free bridge over the East River instead? (not that it would be any faster) 
1) It is always a toll entering the city. Philly or NYC. And all other bridges on the same river follow suit (including within NYS).
2) Verrazano is 2-way now. But when it was 1-way, you wanted to use 278 going into Long Island and through Manhattan going home.
Or...LIRR...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

abqtraveler

Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2024, 07:34:46 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on February 08, 2024, 06:49:16 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 08, 2024, 12:34:29 PM
Quote from: kramie13 on February 08, 2024, 12:17:46 PM
You have to pay a toll going west on I-80 from NJ into PA.

You have to pay a toll going east on the George Washington Bridge from NJ into NY.

Is New Jersey charging an "exit toll" to leave that state?  Is that even constitutional?

It's often joked that you want to get out of New Jersey so badly, you need to pay to leave. However,  it's more innocent than that. Over the years, the toll agencies had 2 way tolls, so you were paying in both directions. When the tolling agencies & authorities switched to one way tolling, they independently decided which direction to toll, which happens to be leaving the state.

NJ itself isn't charging the toll. In fact, I don't think they receive any of the revenue from those tolls.

Also, there are numerous ways to leave the state without paying a toll. Several bridges over the Delaware River between NJ & PA don't charge a toll. And all the land crossings between NJ & NY don't charge a toll.

At the risk of stating the obvious, but I'll do so anyway --- the one-way tolls over each river all need to be in the same direction to avoid what I'll call "shun-tolling" to avoid all tolls over that particular river (I remember this being mentioned in the Philadelphia newspapers at the time the change was made from two-way tolling to one-way tolling - for the Delaware River this would be important only in the Philly area and south where all the bridges are tolled). I'm not privy as to why it was decided that leaving NJ was the direction to be tolled..
==============================

However, expanding the topic slightly, if the Verazzano Bridge is also a one-way toll, is there a (toll-cost) advantage to go from NJ to Long Island (or vice versa-- depending on which direction the Verazzano is tolled) by way of Manhattan and using a free bridge over the East River instead? (not that it would be any faster) 
1) It is always a toll entering the city. Philly or NYC. And all other bridges on the same river follow suit (including within NYS).
2) Verrazano is 2-way now. But when it was 1-way, you wanted to use 278 going into Long Island and through Manhattan going home.
That holds true even out on the West Coast. All of the toll bridges that cross San Francisco Bay (SF-Oakland Bay Bridge, San Mateo-Hayward Bridge, Golden Gate Bridge, Richmond-San Rafael Bridge, and Dumbarton Bridge) charge the toll for traffic inbound to San Francisco, while no toll is charged for outbound traffic across those bridges.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

tmoore952

Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2024, 07:34:46 PM
2) Verrazano is 2-way now. But when it was 1-way, you wanted to use 278 going into Long Island and through Manhattan going home.

Didn't know it was 2-way now. I haven't driven up there since the late 1990s.

jmacswimmer

Quote from: tmoore952 on February 08, 2024, 09:26:05 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2024, 07:34:46 PM
2) Verrazano is 2-way now. But when it was 1-way, you wanted to use 278 going into Long Island and through Manhattan going home.

Didn't know it was 2-way now. I haven't driven up there since the late 1990s.

It was fairly recent - December 2020 according to Wikipedia (aka after AET had been implemented). Last time I drove to Long Island in 2018, I similarly took advantage of the one-way tolling by using Goethals/Verrazzano heading east and Throgs Neck/George Washington heading back west.
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"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"



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