Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence

[jeffandnicole]

There is a well-known case of a ticket being thrown out because the sign said "Stoping" instead of "Stopping."  I personally would not hesitate to mention a nonconforming typeface to the officer, and to the prosecutor if the officer decided he still had to issue the citation.  Telling it to the judge becomes a matter of assessing whether the court fees are well spent.  For a person with no warrants and a (mostly) clean record, it is uneconomic to spend $100 in nonrefundable court costs to overturn a $30 parking ticket, even with near-100% certainty of prevailing in court.

As for the MUTCD, the relevant parts of § 2A.13 that require the use of the FHWA series on signs are bolded (Standard) text.  Illinois has adopted the MUTCD with a supplement that leaves § 2A.13 untouched.  While getting a ticket thrown out for failure to use the correct typeface(s) amounts to getting off on a technicality, the onus is still on those who wish to regulate to ensure that they do so with proper form.

That's a lot of talk for an example that was a spelling error, not a font issue.

You are right--it is not that hard to look up.  The current restriction on Jessup Street is part of Ordinance 1494, which the Carmi city council voted to adopt on December 1, 2015, many years after Kphoger left Illinois.

http://www.cityofcarmi.org/minutes-city-council-meeting-of-december-1st-2015/

Part of the motivation for restricting parking on Jessup was increased congestion due to moving Pre-K to that school building.

It replaced ordinance 1317. Let me know what that said. A simple change like the hours of restriction will replace the ordinance.

[Scott5114]

It replaced ordinance 1317. Let me know what that said. A simple change like the hours of restriction will replace the ordinance.

You know you're talking to the poster who's the most likely to go to the trouble to actually look that up and tell you what it said, right?

[1995hoo]

People who, at a red light, stop beyond the stop bar and block the crosswalk.

....

Heh. At the traffic light leaving our neighborhood, it's routine that people waiting to turn left sometimes stop completely beyond the stop bar. Thing is, if you do that, you don't get a green arrow unless someone else pulls up behind you. I always laugh when I see people stuck there. They seem to think the stop bar is irrelevant.

[RobbieL2415]

People who, at a red light, stop beyond the stop bar and block the crosswalk.

People who, after having stopped for a red light, keep inching forward little by little while the light is still red.  Yeah, you're really getting places, buddy.

People who slow down to gawk at accidents.  It's not there for your amusement; move it!

This could be solved by adopting a YG phase before the regular green.  Like how it's done in the EU.

[sprjus4]

People who, after having stopped for a red light, keep inching forward little by little while the light is still red.  Yeah, you're really getting places, buddy.

It really depends on the type of signal. If there's no timer and it's strictly a sensor, sometimes inching forward can trip the sensor if it's not detecting properly. Obviously if it's on a timer though at a major intersection, major thoroughfare, etc. it is of no use practically.

[vdeane]

People who, at a red light, stop beyond the stop bar and block the crosswalk.

People who, after having stopped for a red light, keep inching forward little by little while the light is still red.  Yeah, you're really getting places, buddy.

People who slow down to gawk at accidents.  It's not there for your amusement; move it!

This could be solved by adopting a YG phase before the regular green.  Like how it's done in the EU.

How?  The special phase in the EU is to give people driving standards time to shift into gear, and the creeping forward issue is largely an automatic thing.

[J N Winkler]

It replaced ordinance 1317. Let me know what that said. A simple change like the hours of restriction will replace the ordinance.

You know you're talking to the poster who's the most likely to go to the trouble to actually look that up and tell you what it said, right?

I just did--the City of Carmi does not appear to have minutes online that far back.  I think it is a reasonable inference that Ordinance 1317 did not have the Jessup Street restrictions that Ordinance 1494 does because they were spoken of as new when 1494 was under discussion.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

People tailgating when the passing lane is clear. WHY?

[sprjus4]

People tailgating when the passing lane is clear. WHY?

Even better when your tailgated in the left lane of a mountainous, curvy interstate like I-81 in Virginia over Christiansburg Mountain by a semi when you're already doing 10 mph over (75 mph) and can't go any faster due to traffic in front and can't get over due to more trucks in that lane. Eventually got over, and Mr. trucker thought it'd be a smart idea to punch it to 80 mph nearly running me off the road as I got over, still in a 65 mph zone. Witnessed nearly 4 major accidents in a small period of time by the same inexperienced, reckless truck driver.

At that point I got back over and as this same truck is dangerously passing other trucks around curves still doing 75 - 80 mph, I eventually just backed off, got in the right lane and did 55 mph with the other truckers. No way did I want to get anywhere near that truck.

[jeffandnicole]

...by the same experienced, reckless truck driver.

Fixed.

The trucker probably knew what he was doing. He was just being an asshole.

[sprjus4]

...by the same experienced, reckless truck driver.

Fixed.

The trucker probably knew what he was doing. He was just being an asshole.

It's all fun and games until everyone slams their brakes if something happens in front, or going around a corner to be greeted by stopped cars.

A car can stop quickly. A truck can't, and the only place he'd end up is in someone's back end, and create a chain reaction causing multiple cars to be wrecked.

[Beltway]

It's all fun and games until everyone slams their brakes if something happens in front, or going around a corner to be greeted by stopped cars.
A car can stop quickly. A truck can't, and the only place he'd end up is in someone's back end, and create a chain reaction causing multiple cars to be wrecked.

... and multiple people to have to be shoveled up.

[kphoger]

It replaced ordinance 1317. Let me know what that said. A simple change like the hours of restriction will replace the ordinance.

You know you're talking to the poster who's the most likely to go to the trouble to actually look that up and tell you what it said, right?

I just did--the City of Carmi does not appear to have minutes online that far back.  I think it is a reasonable inference that Ordinance 1317 did not have the Jessup Street restrictions that Ordinance 1494 does because they were spoken of as new when 1494 was under discussion.

For what it's worth...  I was driving in for a private-sector employer, and school customers were our bread and butter.  I wasn't alerted to the buses about to line up until halfway through my delivery;  although I didn't go out and move my truck right away, I didn't dawdle either.  What they perceived to be dawdling was actually me securing my load before driving off.  Yes, my boss could have fired me because of that, and that wouldn't have been surprising, as he was well known for counties around as being one of the biggest dicks out there–both mean and cheap.  But I wasn't fired or even threatened with being, I wrote them a letter of apology, and we kept the account.  So who won?  Everyone, I guess.

[formulanone]

2. People who refuse to enter the intersection to make a left turn on a green ball.  It is perfectly legal in Illinois to do so, yet there are folks who refuse to do so.

I have heard this called "staking out a left turn" and "taking control of the intersection".

Same situation here in Virginia, perfectly legal, yet too many people refuse to do it, and in the process prevent one or two vehicles behind them from making it thru on this signal cycle.

Personally, I avoid that tactic unless there's no other way to see around the traffic in the opposing left-turn lane. In most cases, I'd rather play it safe, especially in an unfamiliar intersection.

A) it's a dick move to block the intersection and make everyone else wait at the beginning of their green phase

B) dumb reason to get an overzealously-written ticket, depending on jurisdiction

C) better safe than sorry

[jakeroot]

A) it's a dick move to block the intersection and make everyone else wait at the beginning of their green phase

B) dumb reason to get an overzealously-written ticket, depending on jurisdiction

C) better safe than sorry

Those are reasons that you alone are worried about. For the rest of us...

A) there is no blocking in jurisdictions that use all-red clearance phases (maybe yours doesn't);
B) what would the ticket be for? It's not illegal in most areas;
C) It's dangerous? Surely you have evidence. Generally, "not dangerous until proven otherwise" is the standard.

[jeffandnicole]

A) it's a dick move to block the intersection and make everyone else wait at the beginning of their green phase

B) dumb reason to get an overzealously-written ticket, depending on jurisdiction

C) better safe than sorry

Those are reasons that you alone are worried about. For the rest of us...

A) there is no blocking in jurisdictions that use all-red clearance phases (maybe yours doesn't);
B) what would the ticket be for? It's not illegal in most areas;
C) It's dangerous? Surely you have evidence. Generally, "not dangerous until proven otherwise" is the standard.

Not only is your answer to c correct, I'd go out on a limb to say just driving thru an intersection is less safe than sitting in the intersection waiting to make that turn.

Better safe than sorry is such an overused phrase.

Being that driving a car is one of the most unsafe transportation methods, wouldn't staying at home be "better safe than sorry"? Wouldn't driving the absolute safest vehicle that can legally be driven "better safe than sorry"? How does a driver manage to drive for miles and then suddenly decide that refusing to drive behind the stop line waiting to make a turn is suddenly the point of being better safe than sorry?

[kphoger]

Sometimes I enter the intersection, sometimes I wait behind the stop bar.  It doesn't necessarily determine whether I go on the yellow/red phase, though.  It just determines how long of a path I take to complete my left turn.  Sure, entering from behind the stop bar on a yellow might be illegal, but the chances of a cop noticing that minor detail in the split-second it happens are slim.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I will pull into the intersection, but I won't piggyback off someone already in it. A lot of people will make daredevil lefts piggybacking off the person already in the intersection.

[formulanone]

Those are reasons that you alone are worried about. For the rest of us...

First and foremost, don't try to dismiss my argument like that, that's foolish bullshit. If I said I was worried about clowns attacking me from a dirigible, then you can safely say that I alone have a worry.

I've been hit by a red-light runner before. That's long stopped me from treating most intersections like a drag race.

Usually, I wait behind the stop bar. I can't watch everyone in the intersection all at once.

There could be a patrol car or ambulance coming the other way, and there's the chance they'd override the lights for the intersection.

I've seen my share of clueless drivers and leviathan-like vehicles block intersections. 

Misunderstandings between U-turning drivers and ROTR drivers 90-degrees apart.

Other drivers who think that they can "draft" behind you and make the intersection, dangerously flaunting the "being in the intersection" rule.

And it's safer to have your wheels pointed forward, not turned, and that's taught in driver's education classes (and traffic court-insisted re-education classes).

A) there is no blocking in jurisdictions that use all-red clearance phases (maybe yours doesn't);

I don't understand what you mean by this? Do you mean a moment when nobody has a green phase? I have seen very few intersections with a few seconds of all-red, so as to assume that no crossroads have it. (Although, I do know of a few with extended yellow phases.)

In any case, there's no law saying I can't wait behind the line. I also don't treat each one like a protected left (or right).

B) what would the ticket be for? It's not illegal in most areas;

I've seen cops chase down intersection-blockers/runners on three separate occasions. All were in Florida. Now there could have been APBs for a precise vehicle match, but that's an amazing coincidence on the verge of "unbelievable".

C) It's dangerous? Surely you have evidence. Generally, "not dangerous until proven otherwise" is the standard.

Any signalized intersection has the chance to be dangerous. Do you really doubt that no accident could ever be caused by a misunderstanding in an intersection?

Now I didn't say that I will never crawl past the stop bar; it's far less dangerous while having a view of traffic coming down a hill, while I'm facing oncoming traffic. And knowing if I have enough acceleration to do so.

Sorry, I don't shoot photos of every intersection I've ever crossed, and I can't tell you there's an iron-clad rule for every possible scenario for a permissive left turn.

Better safe than sorry is such an overused phrase.

Being that driving a car is one of the most unsafe transportation methods, wouldn't staying at home be "better safe than sorry"? Wouldn't driving the absolute safest vehicle that can legally be driven "better safe than sorry"? How does a driver manage to drive for miles and then suddenly decide that refusing to drive behind the stop line waiting to make a turn is suddenly the point of being better safe than sorry?

You forgot the "many people die in bed, thus we should never sleep" argument. Sorry to waste 60-90 seconds of your life.

[Flint1979]

I swear some people are so stupid. I was getting on NB I-75 from EB M-46. There is a car in front of me getting on the same way I was and a car getting off for the WB M-46 exit. The car that is getting on decides to come to a stop so the other car couldn't fo anywhere and I had to stop too and the traffic on I-75 is moving at about 80 mph. There is no confusion at this exit just short acceleration and deaccerlation lanes.

[Gnutella]

Three that immediately come to mind:


1. People who slow down significantly and THEN use their turn signals.

2. People who slow down up to half a mile before the school zone begins.

3. People who instantly bail out of a lane that's closed ahead and create a traffic jam in the open lane(s).

[1995hoo]

....

.... Do you mean a moment when nobody has a green phase? I have seen very few intersections with a few seconds of all-red, so as to assume that no crossroads have it. (Although, I do know of a few with extended yellow phases.)

A second or two of all-red is pretty common here, but I've never thought it was to allow for turning left.



The thing that's annoying me lately is people who start slowing down way in advance when the light ahead is red such that it makes it hard to get to the left-turn lane in time to get the green arrow (or to get into the right-turn lane at all). I don't think it's incompetence so much as it's being inconsiderate and not thinking about anyone else, and that opinion is underscored by the woman who got mad Sunday when I honked at her to keep moving and she honked back (pointless response) and then gave me the finger as I went past in the turn lane (I just missed the light, too, thanks to her).

[ozarkman417]

1. A road closure on a freeway here is causing the closure of two of the three lanes on the freeway, and the drivers wait until the very last second to merge and that slows down traffic even more than it already is as it requires drivers to make room for others to enter.

2. People who get in the left lane way before their exit on at-grade expressways (ex: 65 to branson or 31 in Indiana), preventing passing. This creates a dangerous situation when trying to pass a large vehicle, as you will be in the blind spot for much longer.

[Plutonic Panda]

I like zipper merging for city environments.

[webny99]

The Absolute Worst, is on two lane roads when I go to pass someone and they speed up. WHY? 

You have left me with two terrible options: (1) Speed up beyond what is safe/reasonable to get past, or (2) Get back behind you, only to inevitably slow down to your preferred speed (which is obviously slower than mine, or I wouldn't have tried to pass you in the first place!).
I have concluded that only true control-freaks would engage in this behavior.