Thought I'd leave this here for discussion. Gotta love the homemade signs.
http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2016/09/ann_arbor_taking_closer_look_a.html#incart_river_home_pop
I see the article commentary is as insightful and thought-provoking as an episode of "OW! My Balls"
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 20, 2016, 10:38:36 PM
I see the article commentary is as insightful and thought-provoking as an episode of "OW! My Balls"
Well, it is Arrogant Asshole.
Everyone here needs to remember that Ann Arbor, Michigan is the second smartest city in America, so please be gentle, and type slowly and politely so as not to offend anyone's sensibilities!
(OW! My Balls! LOL! Ann Arbor is an "Idiocracy" all its own!)
Quote from: renegade on September 21, 2016, 09:11:11 PM
Everyone here needs to remember that Ann Arbor, Michigan is the second smartest city in America, so please be gentle, and type slowly and politely so as not to offend anyone's sensibilities!
(OW! My Balls! LOL! Ann Arbor is an "Idiocracy" all its own!)
FYI, the moderators use purple for official text, so it's not really a good idea to use that color in a post.
Quote from: renegade on September 21, 2016, 09:11:11 PM
Everyone here needs to remember that Ann Arbor, Michigan is the second smartest city in America, so please be gentle, and type slowly and politely so as not to offend anyone's sensibilities!
(OW! My Balls! LOL! Ann Arbor is an "Idiocracy" all its own!)
I'll be as gentle as a Spartan linebacker smashing through that Line of Blue.
Lower the speed limits, maybe. I'm not a big fan of traffic calming. What if it delays emergency vehicles? More lives could be lost than saved by "calmer" traffic.
I'm the reverse, to a point. Artificially low speed limits are painful to drive in. I'd much rather drive in a road that's engineered for a low speed limit than one that's engineered for high speed but still has a low limit. Let's appreciate that this (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6427375,-73.7775837,3a,75y,84.43h,82.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNLYmyx8k9mF6jGhkXJMDCA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) has a higher speed limit than this (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2383633,-75.8531051,3a,75y,56.35h,75.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6ROn6uFi9_qw2FFh04db9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Driving 25 on the former is easy despite the speed limit being higher. Driving 30 on the latter requires cruise control to avoid the temptation to go faster despite being speeding.
That said, old style speed bumps that require one to slow down to 5 mph just to avoid vehicle damage are terrible and should be used nowhere.
The thing about so-called "traffic calming" is that so often it's used to say "stay off my street" instead of "slow down in this residential area." I'm sure we've all encountered sharp speed humps that force you to slow almost to a stop and downshift to second gear. Those things are damn irritating and their purpose is almost always to make the drive so miserable that people will use a different road. When they're more gradually sloped so you can take them at the speed limit (here, typically 25 mph if a street has those things), I don't mind them nearly as much. I'm not saying I like them, just that they bother me a lot less, especially if it's a publicly-maintained street rather than an HOA-owned road. I object to publicly-owned and -maintained streets being set up in a way that actively discourages people from using them. You don't want people driving through your neighborhood, pressure the appropriate authority to improve the nearby arterials so people don't feel the need to cut through.
In the vast majority of cases, those blowing the speed limit in residential areas are also living in those residential areas.
If someone posts a sign out in front of their house telling people to slow down, drive like your kids live here, bs, bs, bs, I'll like to see their driving records pulled to see if THEY drive elsewhere like their kids live there, etc, etc, etc.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 22, 2016, 09:59:32 PM
The thing about so-called "traffic calming" is that so often it's used to say "stay off my street" instead of "slow down in this residential area." I'm sure we've all encountered sharp speed humps that force you to slow almost to a stop and downshift to second gear. Those things are damn irritating and their purpose is almost always to make the drive so miserable that people will use a different road. When they're more gradually sloped so you can take them at the speed limit (here, typically 25 mph if a street has those things), I don't mind them nearly as much. I'm not saying I like them, just that they bother me a lot less, especially if it's a publicly-maintained street rather than an HOA-owned road. I object to publicly-owned and -maintained streets being set up in a way that actively discourages people from using them. You don't want people driving through your neighborhood, pressure the appropriate authority to improve the nearby arterials so people don't feel the need to cut through.
I think you might agree with me when I say, that when I see the words "traffic calming," I read "traffic stopping." I immediately get the impression that a self-entitled community wants to destroy mobility without any attempt to compensate for it elsewhere. Traffic calming on its own is a short-sighted proposition, because you can't just block traffic from going through your area--the traffic demand is still going to exist, so they're going to reroute themselves. I just hope that the traffic calming study includes provisions for local deliveries as well alternate routes for thru traffic.
There are methods of traffic calming other than speed bumps/humps. Curb extensions, for example.
Quote from: vdeane on September 23, 2016, 01:01:23 PM
There are methods of traffic calming other than speed bumps/humps. Curb extensions, for example.
Sure, but I don't think that changes anything I said.
Many roads need something extra to get people to a safe speed. I'd rather drive on a road with curb extensions and bulbouts than one that has a speed limit significantly slower than what the roadway geometry allows; it's very hard and EXTREMELY annoying to avoid speeding in the latter.
Quote from: vdeane on September 23, 2016, 02:51:33 PM
Many roads need something extra to get people to a safe speed. I'd rather drive on a road with curb extensions and bulbouts than one that has a speed limit significantly slower than what the roadway geometry allows; it's very hard and EXTREMELY annoying to avoid speeding in the latter.
I have found that parking on the street also seems to slow traffic a bit, especially if the street is made to seem a bit narrower than usual.
Quote from: Brandon on September 23, 2016, 03:47:13 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 23, 2016, 02:51:33 PM
Many roads need something extra to get people to a safe speed. I'd rather drive on a road with curb extensions and bulbouts than one that has a speed limit significantly slower than what the roadway geometry allows; it's very hard and EXTREMELY annoying to avoid speeding in the latter.
I have found that parking on the street also seems to slow traffic a bit, especially if the street is made to seem a bit narrower than usual.
That is definitely true.
Quote from: vdeane on September 22, 2016, 09:48:02 PM
I'm the reverse, to a point. Artificially low speed limits are painful to drive in. I'd much rather drive in a road that's engineered for a low speed limit than one that's engineered for high speed but still has a low limit. Let's appreciate that this (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6427375,-73.7775837,3a,75y,84.43h,82.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNLYmyx8k9mF6jGhkXJMDCA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) has a higher speed limit than this (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2383633,-75.8531051,3a,75y,56.35h,75.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6ROn6uFi9_qw2FFh04db9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Driving 25 on the former is easy despite the speed limit being higher. Driving 30 on the latter requires cruise control to avoid the temptation to go faster despite being speeding.
That said, old style speed bumps that require one to slow down to 5 mph just to avoid vehicle damage are terrible and should be used nowhere.
I like 30 on the former street; 25 mph speed limits on arterials don't work that well, in my experience.
The latter should definitely be 40 mph.
I like the street I live on - it's a residential street with maybe 400 people driving on it per day (it does connect to the state highway it's right off of) and a speed limit of 25 with no traffic calming. The design speed is probably about 40 mph but I rarely see people exceed 27-30 on it. I think traffic calming is reminiscent of pretentious subdivisions that want to seem fancier than they really are, but that's of course just my opinion.
Quote from: vdeane on September 22, 2016, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: renegade on September 21, 2016, 09:11:11 PM
Everyone here needs to remember that Ann Arbor, Michigan is the second smartest city in America, so please be gentle, and type slowly and politely so as not to offend anyone's sensibilities!
(OW! My Balls! LOL! Ann Arbor is an "Idiocracy" all its own!)
FYI, the moderators use purple for official text, so it's not really a good idea to use that color in a post.
^^ This. ^^
So renegade, please avoid using the purple color in posts, as we use if for Admin reasons here on the forums. Thank you.
There is good traffic calming and bad traffic calming. It's all still better than the St Louis solutions, either another four-way stop or ugly giant concrete planters which turn streets into cul-de-sacs.