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Highway Data Discussion (CHM/TravelMapping)

Started by Jim, June 10, 2015, 10:20:28 AM

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Jim

I think the quadtree should be in the neighborhood of O(n log n), though that's not the usual log2 found in many tree structures.  It was a massive improvement over the original O(n2).  Python also had a convenient set and hash table that helped make various parts far more efficient than the naive implementations.

I hope not to need anything in the site update process that's quadratic in the number of points, routes, .list entries, or anything else.  The most expensive part is still .list processing but it's not bad.  I think it should be able to handle a good number of users with a reasonable update turnaround time.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)


english si

Quote from: yakra on June 20, 2015, 01:15:07 AMI do (did?) not maintain Oregon. Looks like it was last officially left in Si's hands.
The whole state needs an overhaul - on top of the OTT shaping points issue on many routes, there's lots of points that aren't on the highway.

Plus I keep being given point requests (which I have added, even though I don't need to!) and changes.

I'd love to offload it, rather than having to deal with this demanding region (overhaul, people being on the ball about improving it), but I think I've received a couple of requests from people to maintain it, which creates an issue!

Bickendan


english si


Bickendan

Thanks, I'll grab it when I get home from work.

Jim

A big roadblock to getting both old (CHM veteran) and new people working on improving and expanding the highway data is the conversion to a new format.  For the most part, as mentioned before, this is nearly trivial.  My intent would be to convert all existing files, get them into their "official" location in GitHub and let people clone and fork and whatever else we decide is the way to manage the changes.  The problem is that Tim's wptedit page would still use the old .wpt file format, with the OSM URLs.  So the options as I see them:

1) We stick with the old format for now so we can keep using wptedit on Tim's site.  We risk it disappearing, and are stuck with a file format that is a bit clunky but would work.  But the process described above could happen almost immediately.

2) We copy and modify Tim's wptedit code (it's all available as far as I can tell) to use the new format.  It should be nearly trivial to do, but I'm hesitant to take his code without his permission.  I'm using some of his JS code in the map displays I developed but I had prior permission to use that code for my academic project, and a lot of it has been changed quite a bit since his last version so I feel like this is OK.  In this case, we'd be making only small modifications, using most of his code as is, with no permission of any kind granted as far as I know.

3) Someone writes a brand new highway data file editor.  This would take some time, I'm sure.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

sammi

Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
3) Someone writes a brand new highway data file editor.  This would take some time, I'm sure.

What kind of functionality does this need anyway? I'd be up for it.

Jim

Quote from: sammi on June 24, 2015, 08:07:19 PM
Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
3) Someone writes a brand new highway data file editor.  This would take some time, I'm sure.

What kind of functionality does this need anyway? I'd be up for it.

The existing one's a good starting point:

http://cmap.m-plex.com/tools/wpteditv3/wptedit.html
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

rickmastfan67

Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 08:09:31 PM
Quote from: sammi on June 24, 2015, 08:07:19 PM
Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
3) Someone writes a brand new highway data file editor.  This would take some time, I'm sure.

What kind of functionality does this need anyway? I'd be up for it.

The existing one's a good starting point:

I think you should have just PM'ed him the link Jim.  We don't want to overload Tim's site with people who don't really have permission to use that.

Jim

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on June 24, 2015, 10:09:36 PM
I think you should have just PM'ed him the link Jim.  We don't want to overload Tim's site with people who don't really have permission to use that.

Maybe, but it's just a single HTML file with some JS code, and if I'm seeing it right will only hit the server for the initial load.  It's all client side after the initial page load.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

SSOWorld

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on June 24, 2015, 10:09:36 PM
Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 08:09:31 PM
Quote from: sammi on June 24, 2015, 08:07:19 PM
Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
3) Someone writes a brand new highway data file editor.  This would take some time, I'm sure.

What kind of functionality does this need anyway? I'd be up for it.

The existing one's a good starting point:

I think you should have just PM'ed him the link Jim.  We don't want to overload Tim's site with people who don't really have permission to use that.
Use what? ;)
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

sammi

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on June 24, 2015, 10:09:36 PM
I think you should have just PM'ed him her the link Jim.  We don't want to overload Tim's site with people who don't really have permission to use that.

It's not like that modifies any data on the server side though, just whatever the user inputs.

Highway63

Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
1) We stick with the old format for now so we can keep using wptedit on Tim's site.  We risk it disappearing, and are stuck with a file format that is a bit clunky but would work.  But the process described above could happen almost immediately.
If a new format would convert what already exists and be at least somewhat close to "write unique point name, insert weblink" then I think it could be explored. I have zero experience with GitHub though.

Quote2) We copy and modify Tim's wptedit code (it's all available as far as I can tell) to use the new format.  It should be nearly trivial to do, but I'm hesitant to take his code without his permission.
I think starting out with it, at least, is reasonable. The worst thing that happens is that he would communicate with us about something.

mapcat

Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
... I'm hesitant to take his code without his permission.
There was a phone number posted in the m-plex.com DNS registration info posted the other day.  Anyone considered calling it?

english si

Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 07:51:10 PMA big roadblock to getting both old (CHM veteran) and new people working on improving and expanding the highway data is the conversion to a new format.  For the most part, as mentioned before, this is nearly trivial.  My intent would be to convert all existing files, get them into their "official" location in GitHub and let people clone and fork and whatever else we decide is the way to manage the changes.
Except that would leave all the changes that people have made in the last 10 months behind (plus all the new systems I have that I couldn't add with Tim's "only two systems in dev at a time" and "no more Europe phase 3" rules)...
Quote1) We stick with the old format for now so we can keep using wptedit on Tim's site.  We risk it disappearing, and are stuck with a file format that is a bit clunky but would work.  But the process described above could happen almost immediately.
this seems the easiest way. What issues are there in keeping the current format other than 'clunkiness'?

english si

The following regions are up for grabs wrt maintanance due to Tim's absence (some of these are me making room for Tim's European systems):
- Arizona
- DC
- Delaware
- Idaho
- Kentucky
- Lousiana
- Maryland
- New Jersey
- Pennsylvania
- Quebec

Jim

Quote from: english si on June 25, 2015, 07:37:39 AM
Quote from: Jim on June 24, 2015, 07:51:10 PMA big roadblock to getting both old (CHM veteran) and new people working on improving and expanding the highway data is the conversion to a new format.  For the most part, as mentioned before, this is nearly trivial.  My intent would be to convert all existing files, get them into their "official" location in GitHub and let people clone and fork and whatever else we decide is the way to manage the changes.
Except that would leave all the changes that people have made in the last 10 months behind (plus all the new systems I have that I couldn't add with Tim's "only two systems in dev at a time" and "no more Europe phase 3" rules)...

True, but we'd easily enough be able to convert those, too.
Quote
Quote1) We stick with the old format for now so we can keep using wptedit on Tim's site.  We risk it disappearing, and are stuck with a file format that is a bit clunky but would work.  But the process described above could happen almost immediately.
this seems the easiest way. What issues are there in keeping the current format other than 'clunkiness'?

I'd say the main arguments in favor of a new format right now are that it would be simpler and slightly easier to parse (but parsing the current wpt format is not hard), we could add support for comments (which could be added for the old format as well), the URLs are not even a current OSM format, and that if we are going to make a switch, this seems as good a time as we'll ever have to do so.  Am I missing anything?  I wouldn't mind at all if we just stick with what we have, augmented with comment support.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

froggie

If nothing else, I'd think upgrading URLs to current format would be a prudent move.

Dr Frankenstein

I don't mind taking over Quebec, but I have no experience with creating/maintaining route files on the original CHM (I offered to do the QC provincial routes a few years ago but was denied).

Jim

Quote from: froggie on June 25, 2015, 09:24:35 AM
If nothing else, I'd think upgrading URLs to current format would be a prudent move.

Unfortunately, that's just as hard, from the point of view of what to do about a wpt editor, as going to the simplified format we discussed a while back.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

yakra

Quote from: english si on June 25, 2015, 08:05:11 AM
The following regions are up for grabs wrt maintanance due to Tim's absence (some of these are me making room for Tim's European systems):
- Arizona
- DC
- Delaware
- Idaho
- Kentucky
- Lousiana
- Maryland
- New Jersey
- Pennsylvania
- Quebec
I'll take LA and NJ.

QC:
ISTR that Oscar has kept his eyes on a number of changes that need to be made from the versions currently in the HB, and may have already made the edits to his local files. I'd offer to take QC (because Canada yadda yadda GISplunge), but offer first dibs to Oscar.
Carl, any objections?
"Officer, I'm always careful to drive the speed limit no matter where I am and that's what I was doin'." Said "No, you weren't," she said, "Yes, I was." He said, "Madam, I just clocked you at 22 MPH," and she said "That's the speed limit," he said "No ma'am, that's the route numbah!"  - Gary Crocker

SSOWorld

Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

sammi

#47
I have a prototype waypoint editor ready! :sombrero:

    http://travelmapping.sammdot.ca/wptedit.html

Ok so you can't really edit yet, but now when you click Export it downloads a .wpt file in my proposed new format.

    43.726756 -79.330449 WynDr WynfordDr

I'm still trying to get the importing to work. Importing works now too! It's just the actual editing part left to do. <_<
This is what a sample .wpt looks like in the new format:

    http://dl.sammdot.ca/on.on409.wpt

Just click Import and copy the contents.

(If it says the length is 0.25 mi / 0.4 km, that's just part of the prototype because I haven't written distance calculations in yet.)

yakra

Quote from: SSOWorld on June 25, 2015, 02:50:01 PM
Does Oscar have time for all that?  :-o
Maybe, maybe not. I'll let it be his call. FWIW, when the old project went dormant he was already maintaining AK, CA, HI, YT, NT, BC, and SK.
"Officer, I'm always careful to drive the speed limit no matter where I am and that's what I was doin'." Said "No, you weren't," she said, "Yes, I was." He said, "Madam, I just clocked you at 22 MPH," and she said "That's the speed limit," he said "No ma'am, that's the route numbah!"  - Gary Crocker

rickmastfan67

Quote from: sammi on June 25, 2015, 03:35:53 PM
I have a prototype waypoint editor ready! :sombrero:

    http://travelmapping.sammdot.ca/wptedit.html

Ok so you can't really edit yet, but now when you click Export it downloads a .wpt file in my proposed new format.

    43.726756 -79.330449 WynDr WynfordDr

I'm still trying to get the importing to work. Importing works now too! It's just the actual editing part left to do. <_<
This is what a sample .wpt looks like in the new format:

    http://dl.sammdot.ca/on.on409.wpt

Just click Import and copy the contents.

(If it says the length is 0.25 mi / 0.4 km, that's just part of the prototype because I haven't written distance calculations in yet.)

Looking good sammi.  However, I'm not seeing any text in the top left where it would list the waypoints.  No idea why.  Using Firefox 39 Beta.



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