Washington has one of the highest levels of extreme commutes in the U.S.

[cpzilliacus]

Washington Post:  Washington has one of the highest levels of extreme commutes in the U.S.

Even in a region where marathon commutes are commonplace, Angela Barber's trek to work is brutally long.

She rises in her Hagerstown, Md., home at 4:45 a.m. and heads out the door half an hour or so later. It usually takes her two hours to drive down Interstate 270 and Connecticut Avenue to her Dupont Circle job as a legal secretary at a nonprofit. In bad weather, the trip home has taken as long as five hours.

"I can't afford to leave this job, and I can't afford to move,"  said Barber, 46, who has been making the commute for nine years. "I have a good job, it's just 74 miles from home."

Barber is one of a growing number of "mega-commuters"  whose daily trip to work spans more than 50 miles and 90 minutes, according to new census figures released Monday. About 600,000 Americans endure such an extreme commute, and more than a quarter of them live in the Washington area. Almost 4 percent of the region's workers are mega-commuters, up from 3.5 percent in 2000, according to census data. That proportion is rivaled by workers in New York City and surpassed, just barely, only by San Francisco.

[djsinco]

This makes me feel even better about working from home...

[vdeane]

I don't know how people do commutes like that.  Sleep, commute, work, and nothing else.

[corco]

Yeah, when I was out on the job market I knew I wanted to live in a small town, but was prepared to commute 50+ miles to get into whatever city where the jobs are.

I'm really, really glad I found a job in a small town- 3 minute commute, I can go home for lunch.

[Mapmikey]

I don't know how people do commutes like that.  Sleep, commute, work, and nothing else.

It doesn't have to be that way.  I have been doing a 62 mile commute to suburban DC since 1998 and while I don't enjoy it, I can make it work for me.  I am fortunate to be able to work 10 hr days so I almost never have to be in on Fridays.

By not moving closer I may be able to retire at 50.  If I moved in closer I'd never be able to retire.  I do spend more on gas and will end up buying 2-3 more cars that I would have but that is still a minor fraction of what the added mortgage payment would be if I moved up there.

I'm sure for others it sucks all the way around.

Mapmikey

[mtantillo]

I don't know how people do commutes like that.  Sleep, commute, work, and nothing else.

It doesn't have to be that way.  I have been doing a 62 mile commute to suburban DC since 1998 and while I don't enjoy it, I can make it work for me.  I am fortunate to be able to work 10 hr days so I almost never have to be in on Fridays.

By not moving closer I may be able to retire at 50.  If I moved in closer I'd never be able to retire.  I do spend more on gas and will end up buying 2-3 more cars that I would have but that is still a minor fraction of what the added mortgage payment would be if I moved up there.

I'm sure for others it sucks all the way around.

Mapmikey

I would never do that.  But then again, I don't have a family to raise, and I don't need that much space.  So I pay more to live closer in. 

Really, everyone's situation is different.  People would rather live where it is cheap and work where the jobs pay more.  To do that, you have to commute.

[1995hoo]

To some degree I think there's also a function of what you grew up with. I wouldn't be interested in a commute that took two hours on a regular basis. But 40 minutes never bothered me when I worked downtown. I grew up in the DC area, lived here since I was one year old and have always lived outside the Beltway (until I was 10 we lived near Fairfax Hospital, then we moved to a neighborhood about a mile east of Fairfax City). My father always worked downtown and it always took him about 40 minutes to make the drive under normal conditions. That's about what it takes to get downtown during rush hour from where I live now (15 miles each way if I take the Interstate, which at rush hour I don't) and it never bothered me at all other than my general annoyance at dealing with aggressive drivers. But I know quite a few people in their late 20s/early 30s who think the idea of a 40-mile commute is insane and that it means you live way out in the sticks. Not at all. But I have no desire to live out in Prince William County or further away.

During the summer of 1996 I lived in my apartment at Duke and commuted to North Raleigh, 31 miles each way. But it took less than half an hour to make the drive so it didn't seem far at all.

I think one of the single biggest factors in the DC area that often gets overlooked by the so-called "smart growth" crowd is that for parents with kids the schools are vitally important. The major reason why when I was 10 years old my parents chose the house in which they still live today is that they wanted to ensure that my brother and I attended particular junior high and high schools, so they moved to a neighborhood where we'd attend those schools. LOTS of parents in the DC area consider that sort of thing when moving–they place the kids' education above their own commute.

Another thing to consider is that when you hear of a "mega-commuter" you don't always know the whole story–for example, the person may be married with a spouse who works somewhere else. I know a fellow who lives in Prince William County and has around a one-hour drive to Arlington every day (he has an HOV exemption), but his wife is a teacher at a Catholic school near Woodbridge and she has to be at work earlier in the morning than he does. So they live further out so that she won't have to get up quite as early to get to work. I can't criticize people who base the decision on where to live on that sort of factor.

I think Mike's comment "everyone's situation is different" is the key. There are as many variables as there are people.

[mtantillo]

In some places, the school district is the primary driver of housing prices.  On Long Island, each school district has its own reputation. The lines are drawn in seemingly random places, and houses on the same block might have $100,000 difference in value if one side is a desirable school district and the other side is in a not-desirable district.  And since each district is a separate entity, the boundaries are set in stone and pretty much cannot be changed.  Long Island has over 130 school districts, each with a board and superintendent...but the moment you say the word "consolidation", you get the "Not my district!!!"  People did not pay a huge premium to buy a house so their kids could go to school with "those kids" in the other town.  But up there, school districts are small, most with only one middle school and one high school.  Not sure how that works in places outside the northeast which generally have much larger school districts based on county level.  Fairfax County VA has some of the best public schools in the country, but each high school has its own reputation, and some are better than others.  You can buy a house with the intent of sending your kids to a certain high school, but because Fairfax County is one district, the board can choose to "redraw the lines", and with the flick of a pen, you are part of a different high school attendance district.  So my guess is that housing values can't be tied nearly as closely to schools as they are up north where you essentially have to buy into a good district.  The flip side of this is that if you live up north and are a DINK (Double Income, No Kids), you can get a nice house at a bargain rate if you choose a decent neighborhood in what is considered a "not-desirable" district. 

[Alps]

Typical commutes into NYC are 70-80 miles from points like Stroudsburg, PA, Port Jervis, NY, Toms River, NJ... Stroudsburg is getting a rail line (extension of service along the Lackawanna Cutoff) and the other two already have it. People like the suburbs, and when they start getting semiurban, the exurbs become the suburbs, until the suburbs are so far away you can't even tell you're near the related city.

[mc78andrew]

I used to commute 42 miles each way over the tappan zee bridge into westchester county NY from NJ.  It took about 40 minutes door to door if I left at 6am. Coming home was never less than an hour.  This aggressive commute with multiple bottlenecks, a down right scary bridge, and several high speed sections with aggressive drives caused me to hate my life.

So I move to westchester and bought a house that cost twice as much. My property tax bill went from 8k per year to 31k per year.  It's a great school district and its close to work.  The cost savings just wasn't worth it for me.  I'd rather spend it all to be happy and hope for the best later rather than live in misery for 20 years to have a few extra bucks when I'm 60. But thats just me and as was said, everyone is different.  The good news is that we all have options.

[cpzilliacus]

Typical commutes into NYC are 70-80 miles from points like Stroudsburg, PA, Port Jervis, NY, Toms River, NJ... Stroudsburg is getting a rail line (extension of service along the Lackawanna Cutoff) and the other two already have it. People like the suburbs, and when they start getting semiurban, the exurbs become the suburbs, until the suburbs are so far away you can't even tell you're near the related city.

Some people I speak with have expressed astonishment that Pike County, Pennsylvania is now part of the New York City et al CSA, but your words above describe the process pretty well.  Wonder how many trains will run from and to Stroudsburg?

The analog in metropolitan Baltimore-Washington are the Eastern Panhandle counties (especially Jefferson County) of West Virginia.

[mc78andrew]

Typical commutes into NYC are 70-80 miles from points like Stroudsburg, PA, Port Jervis, NY, Toms River, NJ... Stroudsburg is getting a rail line (extension of service along the Lackawanna Cutoff) and the other two already have it. People like the suburbs, and when they start getting semiurban, the exurbs become the suburbs, until the suburbs are so far away you can't even tell you're near the related city.

Some people I speak with have expressed astonishment that Pike County, Pennsylvania is now part of the New York City et al CSA, but your words above describe the process pretty well.  Wonder how many trains will run from and to Stroudsburg?

The analog in metropolitan Baltimore-Washington are the Eastern Panhandle counties (especially Jefferson County) of West Virginia.

You see a lot of people running to catch express trains to new haven with a first stop at Bridgeport in grand central all the time.  That's 75 miles and about 1 hour 40 minute train ride each way.

[hbelkins]

My property tax bill went from 8k per year to 31k per year.

My property tax bill is about $2K and I think that's outrageous. $8K is sinful and $31K is downright criminal. That's more than half my annual income. How on earth do you afford to live with tax rates that high?

[djsinco]

My property tax bill went from 8k per year to 31k per year.

My property tax bill is about $2K and I think that's outrageous. $8K is sinful and $31K is downright criminal. That's more than half my annual income. How on earth do you afford to live with tax rates that high?

Per capita income in Westchester County, NY is probably about quadruple compared to any point in KY. The high property taxes are also artificially inflated to keep out the riff-raff; and provide a high level of police protection as there are areas of poverty adjacent. My brother lived there at one time, and the town he resides in currently has a statute that forbids partial property tax payments, they are due in full on January 1st, each year. They are NOT allowed to be gathered as escrow in a mortgage account.

[kkt]

...statute that forbids partial property tax payments, they are due in full on January 1st, each year. They are NOT allowed to be gathered as escrow in a mortgage account.

That's just evil.  Are you at least allowed to tell your bank to put $x dollars in a separate savings account every month so you can pay the tax in December?

[mc78andrew]

My property tax bill went from 8k per year to 31k per year.

My property tax bill is about $2K and I think that's outrageous. $8K is sinful and $31K is downright criminal. That's more than half my annual income. How on earth do you afford to live with tax rates that high?

Even with a high per capita income...this place (NY) is totally painful on every level.  It even snowed today and I saw it was in the 60's in the south.

Granted you can make more income here, but generally i feel like the tax system takes more % than in other areas of the US...that's a whole other topic though.  Poorer areas have high property taxes too, just not as high as the town I live in.  It's not designed to keep poor people out...the land value and house values do that on their own.

As you can see by my willingness to pay it, I'd rather have another 45 minutes a night with my son than another 23K per year any day of the week, so that made the choice easy for me.  Commuting is just not worth it for me.

I have no idea how people do mega commutes.  People make sacrifices for the ones they love I guess.  I know a few people who commute form Middletown NJ to Purchase NY.  It's about 70 miles each way and $100 bucks a week in tolls.  They say their families love the town and the kids are doing great in school.  How can you argue with that?  A man just wants to keep his family happy.  It's a crazy life we lead. 

[djsinco]

That's just evil.  Are you at least allowed to tell your bank to put $x dollars in a separate savings account every month so you can pay the tax in December?

I don't see how that could be an issue, but in the zip code in question, I don't see it being needed very often at all. They just do not allow the mortgage holder to be involved in the escrow.

[mtantillo]

The high taxes in NY might have to do with so many overlapping governments. Somehow in most of the country they get by with just counties and an occasional city, but in NY, we have counties, towns, and incorporated villages.  You can pay taxes to all three if you live in a village. Services overlap and the employees are all unionized. 

[djsinco]

One example is the Bergen County, NJ, sheriffs department. It is a completely superfluous entity, as Bergen County is completely incorporated, so all Bergen County towns could (and do) provide police services for themselves. Instead, they look for any reason to write a traffic ticket to justify their existence, which mostly consists of doing very little. Entry level pay is 80K+, after a few years most make over 100K. They bank years worth of sick days, and retire early with million dollar payouts. If you doubt or dispute any of this go to the local newspaper website and seek the truth:

www.northjersey.com

[cpzilliacus]

I don't know how people do commutes like that.  Sleep, commute, work, and nothing else.

It doesn't have to be that way.  I have been doing a 62 mile commute to suburban DC since 1998 and while I don't enjoy it, I can make it work for me.  I am fortunate to be able to work 10 hr days so I almost never have to be in on Fridays.

By not moving closer I may be able to retire at 50.  If I moved in closer I'd never be able to retire.  I do spend more on gas and will end up buying 2-3 more cars that I would have but that is still a minor fraction of what the added mortgage payment would be if I moved up there.

I'm sure for others it sucks all the way around.

Mapmikey, I know such commutes to places (relatively) near the Capital Beltway are not especially uncommon.

People commute to D.C. and its suburbs from places like this:

Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia (mentioned previously, I think);
Various parts of Virginia's Shenandoah Valley;
South-central Pennsylvania (especially Adams and York Counties);
Western Maryland (at least as far west as Flintstone, Allegany County off of I-68);
The I-95 corridor in Virginia as far south as Richmond (and some D.C. Fire and EMS employees have been documented as commuting from homes in North Carolina);
The I-95 corridor in Maryland;
Places along the I-95 corridor beyond Maryland; and
The Eastern Shore of Maryland.

The Smart Growth industry mindlessly condemns anyone and everyone that chooses to make those commutes, but like it or not, many people cannot afford to live the in-town "carfree" lifestyle that they demand.

[cpzilliacus]

One example is the Bergen County, NJ, sheriffs department. It is a completely superfluous entity, as Bergen County is completely incorporated, so all Bergen County towns could (and do) provide police services for themselves. Instead, they look for any reason to write a traffic ticket to justify their existence, which mostly consists of doing very little. Entry level pay is 80K+, after a few years most make over 100K. They bank years worth of sick days, and retire early with million dollar payouts. If you doubt or dispute any of this go to the local newspaper website and seek the truth:

www.northjersey.com

Sheriff's offices in all of metropolitan Washington, D.C. and Baltimore would seem to fall into this category as well (even though most of it is unincorporated, the counties have county-level police departments with a few exceptions).  But in Virginia, elected sheriffs run the county/city jails, and in all jurisdictions (except D.C. itself, which has never had a sheriff - the  U.S. Marshals function as a sheriffs department), it is the sheriffs who provide courthouse security, track down fugitives and supervise things like evictions.

[Mapmikey]

I love the independent city concept in Virginia...

The City of Fredericksburg does have a sheriff in addition to a police force, and I do not pay any county taxes whatsoever...only property taxes to the City and income tax to the state.  Fredericksburg is extremely well-run and my taxes to them are quite reasonable.  The streets are always passable within 24 hrs of any snowstorm we've had in the last 18 yrs.  No counties around here come close to that nor would that necessarily be expected due to size of counties.

Independent cities who either are poorly managed or can't attract revenue through business/industrial activities within their borders do have a harder time and sometimes revert back to incorporated towns (South Boston, Clifton Forge, Bedford are recent former cities).

Mapmikey

[Mapmikey]

Mapmikey, I know such commutes to places (relatively) near the Capital Beltway are not especially uncommon.

NIH has people living everywhere - Hagerstown, Gettysburg, Aberdeen, well west of Martinsburg, Fredericksburg, Ladysmith...

The 3 people I knew who have actually lived in Bethesda - 2 inherited the house and the other is married to a high income spouse and also bought their house in the mid-70s.  A typical federal employee or federal manager cannot afford to live close-in to DC unless they have a good spousal income, been here 40+ years, like multiple roommates, live in a 400 sq ft condo, or are willing to forego saving much for retirement or have any disposal income at all.

This is not to say federal employees are grossly underpaid... entry level feds are paid a little better than average and fed upper-level managers or lawyers are underpaid relative to non-feds of the same jobs.  It's just that there are so many high-paying lobbying, legal, and medical field jobs in the DC area that skews what housing close in costs.

Many other cities don't have this problem - a fed manager in South Carolina can live quite nicely, for example, without living three counties over from where they work.

Many people's work schedules (like mine) do not fit VRE's or MARC's schedule so we drive instead.

Mapmikey

[cpzilliacus]

I love the independent city concept in Virginia...

The City of Fredericksburg does have a sheriff in addition to a police force, and I do not pay any county taxes whatsoever...only property taxes to the City and income tax to the state.  Fredericksburg is extremely well-run and my taxes to them are quite reasonable.  The streets are always passable within 24 hrs of any snowstorm we've had in the last 18 yrs.  No counties around here come close to that nor would that necessarily be expected due to size of counties.

Regarding sheriff's departments in Virginia cities, I think most have their "own" elected sheriff, but that's not always the case.  Even though all cities are independent of counties, some of them will use the sheriff from an adjoining county. Northern Virginia cases in point are Falls Church (which has its own sheriff, even though the place is about as big as a postage stamp); Fairfax (covered by the Fairfax County sheriff); and  Manassas and Manassas Park (covered by the  Prince William County sheriff).

If you are in nearly any county in Virginia, you are waiting for VDOT to clear the public roads and streets that serve your neighborhood. 

Independent cities who either are poorly managed or can't attract revenue through business/industrial activities within their borders do have a harder time and sometimes revert back to incorporated towns (South Boston, Clifton Forge, Bedford are recent former cities).

Given a choice, it seems to me that being a Virginia town is in many ways better than being a city.  As a town, the county is responsible for providing public schools, sheriff, jail, Commonwealth's Attorney and the other "county" services.  But the towns get to have their own police forces (if they want to provide their own police - or alternatively, I think they can contract with the county for law enforcement), maintain their own streets, and (most importantly) have control over land use, planning and zoning matters.

[1995hoo]

I knew someone who commuted from Charlottesville to DC for several months. Seriously. I've made two roundtrips in a single day a few times, but I'd never be willing to do that as a commute.