Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[jakeroot]

North Carolina's DOT is one of the few that I've seen to test double flashing yellow arrows. Individual cities sometimes install them, but NC is one of the few states to test them. Most state agencies don't permit them.

Speaking of double FYAs, I saw one in Vermont on Sunday up in St. Albans. It was operating in protected-only mode.

Oddly enough, I actually ran into this one on Street View. I was reluctant to post it on my "double permissive left turn" thread because it appeared to be operating in protected-only mode.

Here's an older street view image that shows it operating in permissive mode, back in 2015: https://goo.gl/maps/L6RV297hAbsa793h7

[Roadsguy]

Maybe I just haven't seen Pennsylvania's FYAs often enough to notice, but I found at least one intersection that seems to switch in and out of protected-only mode. At least, I presume it does. I've only been through it in protected-only mode, but it would seem silly to install FYA signals that never use the FYA.

PennDOT is using FYAs for Dallas phasing, though. I don't know if they were from start, but they are now. There's also at least one FYA signal without a green arrow (explicitly to allow Dallas phasing) on US 422 near Myerstown.

Now they just need to start using right turn FYAs. :P

[fwydriver405]

Maybe I just haven't seen Pennsylvania's FYAs often enough to notice, but I found at least one intersection that seems to switch in and out of protected-only mode. At least, I presume it does. I've only been through it in protected-only mode, but it would seem silly to install FYA signals that never use the FYA.

PennDOT is using FYAs for Dallas phasing, though. I don't know if they were from start, but they are now. There's also at least one FYA signal without a green arrow (explicitly to allow Dallas phasing) on US 422 near Myerstown.

Now they just need to start using right turn FYAs.

Speaking of that, have there been any right turn FYA's that utilise any form of a leading pedestrian interval (LPI)?

[jakeroot]

Speaking of that, have there been any right turn FYA's that utilise any form of a leading pedestrian interval (LPI)?

I believe some of the FYA's in New York, that turn across bike lanes, are protected-only during the WALK phase. I don't know if these are only used for left turns, or if there are any for right turns. I do know in WA that none of the turn signals that cross bike lanes have FYA's. All use protected-only phasing, or have no dedicated turn signal at all (opting for "YIELD TO BIKES/PEDS" signage).

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Maybe I just haven't seen Pennsylvania's FYAs often enough to notice, but I found at least one intersection that seems to switch in and out of protected-only mode. At least, I presume it does. I've only been through it in protected-only mode, but it would seem silly to install FYA signals that never use the FYA.

PennDOT is using FYAs for Dallas phasing, though. I don't know if they were from start, but they are now. There's also at least one FYA signal without a green arrow (explicitly to allow Dallas phasing) on US 422 near Myerstown.

Now they just need to start using right turn FYAs.

Speaking of that, have there been any right turn FYA's that utilise any form of a leading pedestrian interval (LPI)?

This right turn signal in Brooklyn operates with an LPI, you can see it switching from the red arrow to the FYA interval moving forward in street view. The signal only protects pedestrians, there's no conflicting vehicular traffic for right turns.

[Revive 755]

Urbana, Illinois, will be getting a number of FYA's on US 150, including a few three permissive-only heads.  I don't think I've seen the three-section permissive only heads on any other IDOT FYA installation, though Kane County has some installed or planned on/for Longmeadow Parkway.   Link to plans - the signal plans are on Sheets 267-315.

[mrsman]

Maybe I just haven't seen Pennsylvania's FYAs often enough to notice, but I found at least one intersection that seems to switch in and out of protected-only mode. At least, I presume it does. I've only been through it in protected-only mode, but it would seem silly to install FYA signals that never use the FYA.

PennDOT is using FYAs for Dallas phasing, though. I don't know if they were from start, but they are now. There's also at least one FYA signal without a green arrow (explicitly to allow Dallas phasing) on US 422 near Myerstown.

Now they just need to start using right turn FYAs.

Speaking of that, have there been any right turn FYA's that utilise any form of a leading pedestrian interval (LPI)?

I had mentioned the signal at Venice/Robertson in another thread:

This is a relatively unique signal, but I'm familiar with another one in California.  It is unusual here, since this doesn't seem like an area with lots of pedestrian crossing, which is usually the reason for a right turn FYA.

The essence of this signal is that the right turns are controlled by this signal phase only, independent of the other signals that are showing.

Red ball - thru traffic must stop, but right turns are allowed after stop.  Yield to cross-traffic and cross-traffic pedestrians.  This light will be red at all times that the thru signals are red and (perhaps) even for a few seconds after thru signals get green to allow for a leading pedestrian interval (LPI).  The LPI is not perfect, since right turns are permitted on red in this jurisdiction.  (Many right turn FYAs have red arrow which effectively creates a no turn on red situation.)

Yellow arrow - signifies the clearance phase after a sold green arrow or a flashing yellow arrow

Flashing yellow arrow - denotes that right turns have to yield to pedestrians.  It is likely that this is only shown while adjacent thru traffic has green light and when the peds have pushed the button.

Green arrow - denotes protected right turn.  This will show when the corresponding left (cross-street) is a green arrow.  This may also show when adjacent thru has a green light and the peds have not pushed the button to cross.

Right turn FYA at Venice Blvd and Robertson, Los Angeles, CA:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0282171,-118.3902918,3a,75y,354.93h,78.28t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s14_6FrmqaMIEnE9acN1kRQ!2e0!5s20190401T000000!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e3

I would assume that in both NY and CA (and probably WA as well) a flashing red arrow would also have the meaning of right turn permitted after stop, assuming you yield to whatever traffic actually has the right of way.  Curious as to why red orb is used instead of flashing red arrow.

In the L.A. example from above at Venice/Robertson, I can tell you that there is also a "right turn signal" sign.  This is because for parts of the signal cycle this red orb is lit, even though the through signal cycle has a straight green arrow.  This produces the lead pedestrian interval, right turn cannot simply go even though straight traffic can go.  Right turns must stop and yield (to pedestrians).  After a few seconds, they get a FYA - no need to stop on right turns, but must still yield to pedestrians who are now in the street for a while.  Then a solid yellow arrow to show that the right turn signal is ending and then a red ball again.

What I'm not sure about is what happens next.  I believe that the next phase of the signal is the left from Venice to Robertson [NO U TURN], which will produce a right green arrow as this is a complementary turn.  But I'm not sure is whether during this phase, the red orb is lit or not.  While it is common for many 5 aspect signals to have red orb with green right arrow, since this signal is meant to only control the right turn, I would think that the red orb with green arrow would be contradictory.  Regardless, a yellow arrow would follow green arrow and then back to red orb.

But what is important to point out is that in this case the red orb of the right turn signal is not always lit at the same times as the red orb of the thru signal.  Thru has red during the right turn protected phase.  RIght turns have red during the LPI.  When Venice has green, both thru and right signals facing Robertson have red orb.  I don't know if that's the case with the NY or WA signals, or whether the red orb is just meant, as Jake said, to provide another signal in case it's blocked by a truck.  In the WA and NY cases, there is no "right turn signal" sign.

I don't know if something like this is legal under the MUTCD - to have two separately timed red orb signals facing the same traffic.  I know there is a big push to get rid of "left turn signal" red orbs in places like VA and PA and replace those with red left arrows.  I don't know if the same exists with regard to these right turn signals.

A similar signal was installed at National/I-10 offramp/Overland and more information can be found here:

https://la.streetsblog.org/2019/07/10/it-took-a-village-to-make-this-overland-avenue-crosswalk-safer/

A clear variant of this would be to replace the red orb with a red arrow.  This would mean (in CA at least) that no turn on red could ever occur.  But it also provides for a perfect LPI.  During the first few seconds of the pedestrian walk phase, cars may not turn as they have a red arrow and not merely a red ball.

Los Angeles has another way of signaling the LPI.  The corner of 9th/Figueroa (one-way to one-way) left turn has a unique signaling.

Sorry to quote myself, but I've found some more information on another traffic light that has a similar set up, but the traffic light looks different, the Los Angeles red ball- red arrow light:

See the following GSV:  https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0462949,-118.2627263,3a,75y,113.31h,86.78t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUq9qzjI5CzhEJBHqMI8Nvw!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en


OK, 9th (aka James Wood Blvd) is one-way eastbound and Figueroa is one way northbound.  On the right side of the view of the intersection approaching along 9th street, you see two tradional RYG signals.  On the left side, you have red ball-red left arrow-yellow ball-green ball.

1) While Figueroa has the green, 9th sees red ball and red arrow.
2) When Figueroa has the red, 9th sees a green ball, red arrow, and a WALK signal.
3) A few seconds later, 9th sees a green ball, and a WALK signal.

THere's also a sign at the corner, no left turn on red arrow.

Here is another example of a lead pedestrian interval (LPI), where the thru green time is maximized.  To at least partially protect pedestrian from turning cars, turning cars are prohibited from turning for the first few seconds of green, then a few seconds later, the left turners are allowed to turn, while yielding to pedestrians.  There is no protected left turn, hence no green arrow.

NOTE:  The signal in 2017 was signalized as R-RA-Y-G to provide the LPI.  More recent GSV images are showing that it is now a RA-YA-GA signal, which is more like a left turn phase completely separate from the peds, not just LPI. Oddly enough, in the latest 2019 images, it seems that the right turn from Figueroa to 9th has a 4-phase LPI, but I'm not sure of the singal timing.

Another example of R-RA-Y-G signal can be found on Sepulveda Blvd in Sherman Oaks.  Not sure if this is to emphasize NTOR, or whether this does in fact also signalize an LPI.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1525083,-118.4662799,3a,75y,9.29h,87.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sadjVfrNshkpP7pKFqI6rfA!2e0!5s20151101T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en


As said above, NYC is using the FYA in a lot of LPI signalizations.  Remember that the general rule in NYC is no turn on red.  So a red arrow can delay turning during the beginning of the pedestrian cycle.  A flashing yellow arrow can be used for a warning to yield to peds when turning.  A green arrow can be used for a protected turn.  A solid yellow arrow can be used to denote the end of the flashing yellow or green phases.  In NYC, it's very rare to see a 4-aspect signal control the turning traffic against a pedestrian (or a bike lane).  Instead, you will usually see one of these two options: (1) a fully protected crossing will use RA-YA-GA, the turn phase is completely separate from the pedestrian phase.  This is very safe, but the downside is that there is less time for ped crossing and less time for turning.  This is used along the 9th Ave bike lane (the first major protected bike lane in NYC) from 14th to 23rd, and at the busier crossings, especially when there is a bike lane; (2) a split-phase signal will use RA-YA-FYA, which incorporates a more standard LPI.  This was done so that the pedestrians get a protected head start for a few seconds and then share the rest of the signal cycle with turning vehicles.  I don't believe that there is a protected turn at all for vehicles, as they can only turn during FYA and they must yield to any peds that are present.

[jakeroot]

A similar signal was installed at National/I-10 offramp/Overland and more information can be found here:

https://la.streetsblog.org/2019/07/10/it-took-a-village-to-make-this-overland-avenue-crosswalk-safer/

A clear variant of this would be to replace the red orb with a red arrow.  This would mean (in CA at least) that no turn on red could ever occur.  But it also provides for a perfect LPI.  During the first few seconds of the pedestrian walk phase, cars may not turn as they have a red arrow and not merely a red ball.

Los Angeles has another way of signaling the LPI.  The corner of 9th/Figueroa (one-way to one-way) left turn has a unique signaling.

Sorry to quote myself, but I've found some more information on another traffic light that has a similar set up, but the traffic light looks different, the Los Angeles red ball- red arrow light:

See the following GSV:  https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0462949,-118.2627263,3a,75y,113.31h,86.78t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUq9qzjI5CzhEJBHqMI8Nvw!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en


OK, 9th (aka James Wood Blvd) is one-way eastbound and Figueroa is one way northbound.  On the right side of the view of the intersection approaching along 9th street, you see two tradional RYG signals.  On the left side, you have red ball-red left arrow-yellow ball-green ball.

1) While Figueroa has the green, 9th sees red ball and red arrow.
2) When Figueroa has the red, 9th sees a green ball, red arrow, and a WALK signal.
3) A few seconds later, 9th sees a green ball, and a WALK signal.

THere's also a sign at the corner, no left turn on red arrow.

Here is another example of a lead pedestrian interval (LPI), where the thru green time is maximized.  To at least partially protect pedestrian from turning cars, turning cars are prohibited from turning for the first few seconds of green, then a few seconds later, the left turners are allowed to turn, while yielding to pedestrians.  There is no protected left turn, hence no green arrow.

NOTE:  The signal in 2017 was signalized as R-RA-Y-G to provide the LPI.  More recent GSV images are showing that it is now a RA-YA-GA signal, which is more like a left turn phase completely separate from the peds, not just LPI. Oddly enough, in the latest 2019 images, it seems that the right turn from Figueroa to 9th has a 4-phase LPI, but I'm not sure of the singal timing.

Another example of R-RA-Y-G signal can be found on Sepulveda Blvd in Sherman Oaks.  Not sure if this is to emphasize NTOR, or whether this does in fact also signalize an LPI.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1525083,-118.4662799,3a,75y,9.29h,87.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sadjVfrNshkpP7pKFqI6rfA!2e0!5s20151101T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

I can see in the photos from that Streetsblog article that CalTrans, instead of replacing the pole-mounted signal on the far mast, they simply added another pole-mounted signal on the pedestrian signal pole to the right (next to two other pole-mounted signals). I think this is how it ought to be done more often. Having a right-side green orb is still important for visibility, even if a ped-specific signal is required.

Normally, I would prefer a red arrow for right-facing FYAs that also have a leading pedestrian interval. That way, a green orb could still be used for through signals, rather than changing the green orb signals out for green arrow signals (as CalTrans has done with their signal at Overland), and no "RIGHT TURN SIGNAL" sign would have to be used. But the setup used here does make sense for California, given the restriction on turning against red arrows (and I doubt CalTrans wants to prohibit them). States like Washington or Oregon could have used a red arrow without issue, though you'd still have issues with drivers waiting for the green, not knowing that it's OK to turn on a red arrow.

Related to the second half of your post, Spokane has used R-RA-Y-G signals before (well, once), for an LPI. Southbound Monroe St @ Fourth Ave:

https://goo.gl/maps/j1vM5Po7HMUX4wjd7

Interestingly, because turns (left & right) are allowed on red arrows up here, they've still had to install NTOR signage for the left turn because the left-facing arrow wouldn't actually prohibit the turn, even if the green orb was lit at the same time (though I'm sure many drivers would instinctively wait for the red arrow to disappear).

What I would like to see is some sort of video of these in operation. Do the red arrows just disappear? Very Australian, from what I've heard.

[mrsman]

A few years ago someone had asked about this intersection on the forum and I was able to use a GSV image to kind of do stop action motion picture on it.  Basically, the GSV car had fortunately crossed right at the beginning of the cycle, so it was clear as to how the signal operated.

I can't seem to recreate it.  It seems that the GSV car has been through that intersection 20 times and I can't find the sequence again.

Based on my recollection, the red arrow is always on when thru is red.  Then at the beginning of the 9th street phase, you have walk-green orb-red arrow.  At some point, the red arrow does vanish while the green orb is lit, but I'm not sure if this happens while walk is lit or during flashing don't walk.  The red arrow is not there during yellow orb.  The red arrow comes back when the red orb comes back.

Of course, keep in mind this signal is no longer in place at 9th/Figueroa as it was replaced by RA-YA-GA earlier this year as part of the "MyFigueroa" improvements.  So even if someone is reading this post now in the L.A. area, they can't film this for us as the signalization is historic.

There have been so many changes to this intersection over a small amount of time. 

[This signalization occurred after I left L.A.]

Baltimore has a unique way of doing an LPI.  Due to one-way streets, we are focusing on the left from Light to Pratt:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2865859,-76.6136071,3a,75y,168.73h,79.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKvvzUrf40ZOHwjoVdLjV2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The left signal is RA-RA-Y-G, the right two signals are standard R-Y-G.  When the phase for Light begins, the walk signal comes on and the two right greens are lit, but the two red arrows are also lit.  (This means peds may cross, and thru traffic may go, but no left turn on red.)  After a few seconds, the red arrows disappear.  I have personally driven through this corner many times and can tell you that this occurs while the walk signal is still lit, but FDW starts soon afterward.  There is no protected left - the left turners are delayed from turning at the beginning of the cycle and they can only turn by yielding to pedestrians.  Instead of a FYA, they have a green ball.

IMO, these are great ways of doing LPIs.  It's easy to design an LPI on the cheap by simply advancing the ped signal and maintaing a red for all vehicles.  But at least the DOTs in charge of these signals are doing their best to not delay the traffic that is not in conflict with the peds.

[US71]

Clinton, AR has FYA only signal

[jakeroot]

A few years ago someone had asked about this intersection on the forum and I was able to use a GSV image to kind of do stop action motion picture on it.  Basically, the GSV car had fortunately crossed right at the beginning of the cycle, so it was clear as to how the signal operated.

I can't seem to recreate it.  It seems that the GSV car has been through that intersection 20 times and I can't find the sequence again.

Based on my recollection, the red arrow is always on when thru is red.  Then at the beginning of the 9th street phase, you have walk-green orb-red arrow.  At some point, the red arrow does vanish while the green orb is lit, but I'm not sure if this happens while walk is lit or during flashing don't walk.  The red arrow is not there during yellow orb.  The red arrow comes back when the red orb comes back.

Of course, keep in mind this signal is no longer in place at 9th/Figueroa as it was replaced by RA-YA-GA earlier this year as part of the "MyFigueroa" improvements.  So even if someone is reading this post now in the L.A. area, they can't film this for us as the signalization is historic.

There have been so many changes to this intersection over a small amount of time. 

[This signalization occurred after I left L.A.]

Thank you for the information.

For some reason, I do find it interesting that a red arrow would just disappear. Sure, the green orb is on, but to have it expire into a green orb (and not a flashing yellow arrow or solid green arrow) seems really strange to me. I'm not trying to suggest that it wouldn't be allowed, just that it's unusual.

I clicked around a bunch at that 9th/Figueroa intersection, and I also cannot find the "disappearing" point. I see it deactivated far more often.

Baltimore has a unique way of doing an LPI.  Due to one-way streets, we are focusing on the left from Light to Pratt:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2865859,-76.6136071,3a,75y,168.73h,79.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKvvzUrf40ZOHwjoVdLjV2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The left signal is RA-RA-Y-G, the right two signals are standard R-Y-G.  When the phase for Light begins, the walk signal comes on and the two right greens are lit, but the two red arrows are also lit.  (This means peds may cross, and thru traffic may go, but no left turn on red.)  After a few seconds, the red arrows disappear.  I have personally driven through this corner many times and can tell you that this occurs while the walk signal is still lit, but FDW starts soon afterward.  There is no protected left - the left turners are delayed from turning at the beginning of the cycle and they can only turn by yielding to pedestrians.  Instead of a FYA, they have a green ball.

IMO, these are great ways of doing LPIs.  It's easy to design an LPI on the cheap by simply advancing the ped signal and maintaing a red for all vehicles.  But at least the DOTs in charge of these signals are doing their best to not delay the traffic that is not in conflict with the peds.

I saw those signals last time I was in Baltimore (about a month ago). Certainly pretty unique.

[roadfro]

Baltimore has a unique way of doing an LPI.  Due to one-way streets, we are focusing on the left from Light to Pratt:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2865859,-76.6136071,3a,75y,168.73h,79.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKvvzUrf40ZOHwjoVdLjV2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The left signal is RA-RA-Y-G, the right two signals are standard R-Y-G.  When the phase for Light begins, the walk signal comes on and the two right greens are lit, but the two red arrows are also lit.  (This means peds may cross, and thru traffic may go, but no left turn on red.)  After a few seconds, the red arrows disappear.  I have personally driven through this corner many times and can tell you that this occurs while the walk signal is still lit, but FDW starts soon afterward.  There is no protected left - the left turners are delayed from turning at the beginning of the cycle and they can only turn by yielding to pedestrians.  Instead of a FYA, they have a green ball.

IMO, these are great ways of doing LPIs.  It's easy to design an LPI on the cheap by simply advancing the ped signal and maintaing a red for all vehicles.  But at least the DOTs in charge of these signals are doing their best to not delay the traffic that is not in conflict with the peds.

I saw those signals last time I was in Baltimore (about a month ago). Certainly pretty unique.

That is a bit odd. I'm guessing it's a green ball because of the shared left/thru lane. I'm not sure that it's MUTCD-kosher to terminate a circular green with a red arrow (I can't find a rule against it though). The operation seems like it would provide delay for thru traffic in the shared lane as well, and that aspect might not be in compliance with MUTCD either.

Also odd that this intersection has some signal heads on mast arms and others on a span wire, on both approaches. But in 2014 street views, the span wire signals are on separate masts on the right side that look like they were later removed.

[tolbs17]

In North Carolina, yes. They have become way more common. Not all of them are changed, just most of them.

[kphoger]

In North Carolina ... Not all of them are changed, just most of them.

I find that exceedingly hard to believe.

[fwydriver405]

In New Hampshire, NHDOT is going to implement more Flashing Yellow Arrows along more of NHDOT maintained signals where permissive/protected left turn phasing is desirable. In some areas like on NH 106 and Regional Dr/Smokey Bear Blvd, time of day (TOD) phasing is being implmented as the signal switches between protected-only during the rush hour and PPLT during off-peak times. I was also told that NHDOT intersections utilising FYA will use the standard 4-section heads, regardless if an approach with a left turn lane does not need a protected phase.

Concord, NH around 2017 redid Main Street in the downtown area which also included signal replacements in two locations: Centre St/Loudon Rd and on Pleasant St. Although Centre St/Loudon Rd is an exclusive pedestrian phase, all of the right turns on red are prohibited during the ped phase. On Pleasant St, an intersection utilising permissive only FYA heads, the signals for all directions remain red during the WALK phase, then goes to the permissive phase during the (flashing) DON'T WALK phase. This intersection used to use an exclusive ped phase, now pedestrian traffic crosses with the parallel traffic while utilising the LPI.

Also, with FYA installed, is a W25-1 or 2 sign neccessary? I noticed a few of these signs in Concord even with FYA signals on some intersections:





In the first two photos, I witnessed emergency vehicle preemption in action along US 3, which forced the signal to give a protected left turn on NB US 3 as an ambulence and a fire truck were responding to a medical emergency in the NH State Prison. However on SB US 3 as the first picture shows, the FYA for the left turn continued to flash yellow even as the oncoming thru traffic still had a green light. When the fire truck and ambulence left, the side street turned green for the approach leaving the NH State Prison only, and the other approach remained red. Since the FYA's were programmed correctly during phase skip and emergency vehicle preemption, and even though there is a yellow trap risk on the minor street approches which hardly recieves any traffic during preemption, is the W25-2 sign necessary?










On Main St and Pleasant St in Downtown Concord, I noticed an unusual type of preemption when a Concord police officer was in pursuit of another vehicle. Pleasant St traffic was being served when the police car requested ROW from N Main St. After an all-red phase, the signal was displaying these indications shown in the 2nd photo of the intersection (the one with the red left arrow and circular green) while the oncoming traffic was held with a red light. I'm not sure if the oncoming FYA was flashing during the preemption. Based on what I saw, and given how one approach on Pleasant St was a single lane permissive only approach, are these signs needed at this intersection to warn of emergency vehicle preemption? Note that the bottom FYA is not bimodal, it only operates on a permissive only mode.

[mrsman]

W25 signs say that oncoming traffic may have extended green.  STrictly speaking, they are not necessary for FYA.  However, if a FYA is being introduced in an area that is unfamiliar with FYA, it is probably a good idea.  It may help combat the "perceived yellow trap" problem, to the extent that it is a problem.

Yellow trap, of course is the problem that if you see in a tradtional intersection, is that if you see yellow orb and then red orb, you assume that opposing traffic also sees those phases at the same time and you will make your left at yellow or at the beginning of red because you assume oncoming traffic will stop.  If opposing traffic has a lagging signal, this may not be the case.  This type of signaling should be avoided at all costs.

FYA was designed to allow for the lagging lefts and avoiding the yellow trap problem.  Cars making a left turn are trained to focus only on their signal, not the orbs for adjacent traffic.  So while adjacent traffic goes to yellow orb and red orb, and opposing traffic maintains green orb, your signal continues flashing yellow arrow without change.  THis means that you are still yielding.  Only when opposing traffic gets a yellow org (you get a solid yellow arrow) and then a red orb (you get a solid red arrow) is it truly safe to make your turn because this is the end of the opposing green phase.

Yet, the concern is that even though a left turner is not supposed  to care about what adjacent traffic is doing, they may still be affected by it.  If they notice that adjacent traffic gets a yellow and they wrongfully assume that opposing traffic is also getting a yellow (they are not), notwithstanding that the left turner is facing a flashing yellow arrow, and the left turner decides to turn anyway, that is the perceived yellow trap.  This has been discussed on this board before, but I'm not so sure that this is a statistically significant problem.

In short, the signs are a good idea while the signal is new, but not strictly necessary.

[roadfro]

Also, with FYA installed, is a W25-1 or 2 sign neccessary? I noticed a few of these signs in Concord even with FYA signals on some intersections:

It is possible the signs are required, based on the 2009 MUTCD Section 4D.05 Application of Steady Signal Indications

Standard:
03 Steady signal indications shall be applied as follows:
E. A steady YELLOW ARROW signal indication:
    5. Shall not be displayed to terminate a flashing arrow signal indication on an approach from which drivers are turning left permissively or making a U-turn to the left permissively unless one of the following conditions exists:
        a. A steady CIRCULAR YELLOW signal indication is also simultaneously being displayed to the opposing approach;
        b. An engineering study has determined that, because of unique intersection conditions, the condition described in Item (a) cannot reasonably be implemented without causing significant operational or safety problems and that the volume of impacted left-turning or U-turning traffic is relatively low, and those left-turning or U-turning drivers are advised that a steady CIRCULAR YELLOW signal indication is not simultaneously being displayed to the opposing traffic if this operation occurs continuously by the installation near the left-most signal head of a W25-1 sign (see Section 2C.48) with the legend ONCOMING TRAFFIC HAS EXTENDED GREEN; or
        c. Drivers are advised of the operation if it occurs only occasionally, such as during a preemption sequence, by the installation near the left-most signal head of a W25-2 sign (see Section 2C.48) with the legend ONCOMING TRAFFIC MAY HAVE EXTENDED GREEN.

So in the strictest sense, the W25 signs are not necessary under normal FYA operations. But if there is special sequencing used on occasion that will cause the solid yellow arrow to come on when the opposing through phase remains green, then the sign is necessary.


Note also that several W25 signs in your photos are incorrectly placed between through signal heads, when they are supposed to be next to the left-most turn signal head.

[fwydriver405]

Note also that several W25 signs in your photos are incorrectly placed between through signal heads, when they are supposed to be next to the left-most turn signal head.

If that's the case, does this signal in Portland, ME (as well as a few on US-1 in Saco between Thornton Academy and where ME-5 and 9 diverge) have the W25 sign placed incorrectly? The Portland example shown here only activates during the sequence where yellow trap occurs.

[paulthemapguy]

I don't know if this is news or not, but North Carolina is a state with many FYA's.  The southernmost traffic signal on US421 is an FYA signal:

North Carolina's DOT is one of the few that I've seen to test double flashing yellow arrows. Individual cities sometimes install them, but NC is one of the few states to test them. Most state agencies don't permit them.

Double FYA's?  What does that mean?  Two flashing yellow arrow indications on the same signal head?  Or both a right and left FYA?  Or something else entirely?

[roadfro]

Note also that several W25 signs in your photos are incorrectly placed between through signal heads, when they are supposed to be next to the left-most turn signal head.

If that's the case, does this signal in Portland, ME (as well as a few on US-1 in Saco between Thornton Academy and where ME-5 and 9 diverge) have the W25 sign placed incorrectly? The Portland example shown here only activates during the sequence where yellow trap occurs.

Per the standard, the sign in at least the ME-5/ME-9 example is incorrectly placed.

The W-25 series signs are really intended as a warning for left turning traffic. There is no reason for such signs to be posted further to the right over through lanes.

[roadfro]

North Carolina's DOT is one of the few that I've seen to test double flashing yellow arrows. Individual cities sometimes install them, but NC is one of the few states to test them. Most state agencies don't permit them.

Double FYA's?  What does that mean?  Two flashing yellow arrow indications on the same signal head?  Or both a right and left FYA?  Or something else entirely?

Likely referring to a double left turn lane setup, which would like have two FYA signal heads (assuming a 'one signal head per lane' overhead installation style). Most states don't allow dual left turn lanes to operate in permitted mode, hence double FYAs being a rarity.

[SignBridge]

On Long Island, N.Y. we have some dual left-turn lanes with side-by-side (similar to doghouse) signals over each lane with protected/permitted operation. The two left turn lanes typically cross two thru lanes in the opposite direction.

[jakeroot]

North Carolina's DOT is one of the few that I've seen to test double flashing yellow arrows. Individual cities sometimes install them, but NC is one of the few states to test them. Most state agencies don't permit them.

Double FYA's?  What does that mean?  Two flashing yellow arrow indications on the same signal head?  Or both a right and left FYA?  Or something else entirely?

Likely referring to a double left turn lane setup, which would like have two FYA signal heads (assuming a 'one signal head per lane' overhead installation style). Most states don't allow dual left turn lanes to operate in permitted mode, hence double FYAs being a rarity.

Indeed, thank you. I've learned that most states don't allow them, but individual cities (which have a great degree of operational freedom in most states, it would seem) are much more willing to try them out. WA's MUTCD supplement doesn't permit them, but there are several cities in WA which have installed them.

On Long Island, N.Y. we have some dual left-turn lanes with side-by-side (similar to doghouse) signals with protected/permitted operation. The two left turn lanes typically cross two thru lanes in the opposite direction.

I only knew of one (can't remember the location...off the 495?). There's more?

[SignBridge]

Actually jakeroot, we're probably thinking of the same one at Exit-43 on the L.I.E. It's on S. Oyster Bay Rd. northbound right on top of the Expressway overpass controlling left turns from S.O.B. Rd. into the westbound Expwy. Service Road. I can't recall any others off hand but that one still exists. And BTW, that was installed by Nassau County DPW, not NYS DOT. As a general rule, NCDPW more commonly uses protected/permitted than NYS DOT does.

[MASTERNC]

PA is slowly getting more flashing yellow arrows.  Another one is being installed in the Philly area; ironically, it is at the other end of a road where the first FYA in the area was installed.

https://www.penndot.gov/RegionalOffices/district-6/pages/details.aspx?newsid=4917