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Corridor H

Started by CanesFan27, September 20, 2009, 03:01:17 PM

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machpost

Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2023, 11:33:35 AM

Similarly, completing US 48 would connect the inland port at Front Royal to points west.

If the traffic increases on the Virginia portion to the point where congestion or accidents become problematic, it will force Virginia's hand eventually.

They seem more than willing to add endless lanes to other big highways in Northern Virginia.

I'm guessing that I won't see a completed, four lane highway from I-81 to I-79 in my lifetime, so at the very least it would be nice to see some truck lanes added to the 2-lane portion of 48 between Strasburg and Wardensville.


Bitmapped

Quote from: machpost on September 22, 2023, 09:04:44 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2023, 11:33:35 AM

Similarly, completing US 48 would connect the inland port at Front Royal to points west.

If the traffic increases on the Virginia portion to the point where congestion or accidents become problematic, it will force Virginia's hand eventually.

They seem more than willing to add endless lanes to other big highways in Northern Virginia.

I'm guessing that I won't see a completed, four lane highway from I-81 to I-79 in my lifetime, so at the very least it would be nice to see some truck lanes added to the 2-lane portion of 48 between Strasburg and Wardensville.

Some climbing lanes, turning lanes, and spot improvements are likely to be adequate for Virginia's portion of US 48 for the foreseeable future.

sprjus4

Quote from: machpost on September 22, 2023, 09:04:44 AM
They seem more than willing to add endless lanes to other big highways in Northern Virginia.
And yet somehow I-95 is still just six general purpose lanes south of the Occoquan, and daily backups every afternoon continue due to the lane drop.

I think what you meant is they are willing to add endless toll lanes where they can just hand it off to a private company.

tmoore952

Quote from: machpost on September 22, 2023, 09:04:44 AM

They seem more than willing to add endless lanes to other big highways in Northern Virginia.

I'm guessing that I won't see a completed, four lane highway from I-81 to I-79 in my lifetime, so at the very least it would be nice to see some truck lanes added to the 2-lane portion of 48 between Strasburg and Wardensville.

But if the earlier poster is to be believed, adding these truck lanes may be tricky, depending on where the existing houses and businesses are. 
I also cannot see at this point how they could possibly do the part between Wardensville and the state line given the terrain, but I'm also not a civil engineer.

sprjus4

Quote from: tmoore952 on September 22, 2023, 02:51:13 PM
Quote from: machpost on September 22, 2023, 09:04:44 AM

They seem more than willing to add endless lanes to other big highways in Northern Virginia.

I'm guessing that I won't see a completed, four lane highway from I-81 to I-79 in my lifetime, so at the very least it would be nice to see some truck lanes added to the 2-lane portion of 48 between Strasburg and Wardensville.

But if the earlier poster is to be believed, adding these truck lanes may be tricky, depending on where the existing houses and businesses are. 
I also cannot see at this point how they could possibly do the part between Wardensville and the state line given the terrain, but I'm also not a civil engineer.
They're doing some impressive earthmoving work down near US-58 at Lovers Leap. Also take a look at the amount of earthmoving work in West Virginia with the construction of Corridor H and also US-121 Coalfields Expressway. It's certainly possible...

rover

Quote from: seicer on September 10, 2023, 03:32:40 PM
Regarding the perception that Corridor H is underutilized, this concern has been raised about many other corridors as well. In my research on various corridors such as Corridor L (US 19), Corridor G (US 119), Corridor D in Ohio (OH 32), Corridor Q in Kentucky (US 460), Corridor B (US 23), Corridor T (NY 17), and Corridor U (US 15), I found similar sentiments.

However, it's important to note that traffic counts aren't the sole reason for the development of these corridors. For instance, Corridor H sees over 24,000 vehicles per day (VPD) at its westernmost point, 11,700 VPD near Elkins, and 4,400 VPD approaching the Allegheny Front. It would not be fair to judge the highway's low traffic counts east of Elkins at this juncture because it has glaring gaps in its completion. Accessing some ski resorts from I-79, for instance, is still easier to do via US 33 than US 48; others will always be more accessible from US 33 but were made easier to get to via US 48 elsewhere. Furthermore, safety, especially concerning truck routes, plays a significant role. In the western segments of Corridor H, trucks constitute 11% of the traffic. Economic development and the goal of providing all regions with equal access to dependable transport networks are other influential factors. Indeed, the ADHS highway corridors are crucial to the mission of the Appalachian Regional Commission.

As for the environmental impact of Corridor H, it's relatively minimal. In areas where many believe the highway encroaches on "pristine" ecosystems, the land has already been altered significantly due to coal strip mining, timber harvesting, and other developmental activities. For instance, east of Davis towards the Allegheny Front, the route–though a matter of concern for environmentalists–follows the path of the existing WV 93, which was not that old of a road. This section also passes through areas previously mined. Additionally, west of Thomas, the highway will intersect with land historically used for extensive mining and timbering, marked by remnants like beehive coke ovens that were highly polluting. While this doesn't negate the need for careful construction measures, it does provide a more balanced perspective on the project's environmental implications.

The development and debate around Corridor H illustrate the complexities of regional development, especially when balancing economic, environmental, and societal needs.

Corridor H, being the most studied roadway in the state, showcases the importance and impact a single infrastructure project can have on an entire region. While the original alignment of US 33 might have served its purpose at the time, shifting development priorities, ecological concerns, and regional growth necessitated a re-evaluation. The new terrain northward then became a viable option.

My personal observation of the Davis/Thomas area over the past two decades highlights the transformative power of infrastructure. Towns like Thomas, once dwindling coal communities similar to many in the southwest of the state, and Davis, a timber-based town, were in decline. Their primary economic draw centered on what little tourism there was up there at the time, specifically Blackwater Falls and the ski resorts.

However, with the improved accessibility provided by Corridor H, previously under-recognized areas like Dolly Sods, Canaan Valley, and the National Forest have seen a surge in visitors and interest. Thomas is completely full of shops in a renovated downtown, and Davis is seeing a lot of new construction. This influx has been a double-edged sword. On the one hand, property values are on the rise, and out-of-state investments have increased. This has brought economic vitality, opportunities, and growth that otherwise would not have existed. On the other hand, these changes come with their own set of challenges, such as potential overdevelopment and loss of the area's intrinsic character.

It'll be interesting to see how much more Corridor H will transform those two mountain towns and Elkins, Parsons, Moorefield, and Wardensville, all of which are seeing a lot of new investment over the next decade.
This is not a good argument.
Corridor H is not heavily traveled, nor heavily populated, nor vitally important since it serves such a small isolated population with other nearby major E-W corridors.
As such, the justification to destroy the environment is not warranted given the low volume and the increase that would result just from inducement.
I find it ironic to say the environment impact is minimal, while claiming this is not a low volume corridor.  Actually it is the other way around, this is a luxury corridor that is not necessary causing major environmental degradation to an area which is a pristine treasure and is still in recovery.

1.  The corridor is a luxury, not a necessity.  It serves a sparse area with E-W long distance covered by other roads.
2.  The corridor will destroy the major attraction, and do it for an unneeded purpose.  The corridor volume is low, the environment impact high. 
3.  The area has a history of poor management that is only now recovering.  It should have an even higher standard to be bulldozed.
4.  In a time of climate change, the need to lower emissions, habitat fragmentation, and last of all, not even funds to maintain most roads, how on earth a boondoggle environmental disaster can take priority in funding  is completely backwards.
Only a special interest person, or somebody looking at a map wanting to see a complete corridor would support this project.
The environmental impact

sprjus4

The corridor will not see its full benefits in terms of increased traffic volumes until it is fully complete as a four lane divided highway between I-66 and I-79.

Alps

I agree with rover on this one, Corridor H does not need this level of improvement at all.

rover

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 21, 2023, 12:14:29 AM
The corridor will not see its full benefits in terms of increased traffic volumes until it is fully complete as a four lane divided highway between I-66 and I-79.
Which essentially means there is not a need for this improvement, and any volume justifications would only be inducement that are served by other corridors.
This is such a backwards project, it is a road in search of volume and justification at the expense of the environment in a time of limited road funding and more progressive climate policy so somebody can have their SimCity grid fantasy completed (or some pork)?

zzcarp

Quote from: rover on October 21, 2023, 09:53:23 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 21, 2023, 12:14:29 AM
The corridor will not see its full benefits in terms of increased traffic volumes until it is fully complete as a four lane divided highway between I-66 and I-79.
Which essentially means there is not a need for this improvement, and any volume justifications would only be inducement that are served by other corridors.
This is such a backwards project, it is a road in search of volume and justification at the expense of the environment in a time of limited road funding and more progressive climate policy so somebody can have their SimCity grid fantasy completed (or some pork)?

Asserting some outsized environmental impact for this project is absurd. In an area of poor management in the past, engineers will improve the environmental conditions after the improvements are constructed, not degrade them.
So many miles and so many roads

rover

LOL, how/when has that ever been the case?
So a forest is better environmentally after a road is cut through it?
Are you kidding me?

Blackwater canyon will be environmentally better when there is a visible, loud, air polluting highway running adjacent/over?

vdeane

Quote from: rover on October 21, 2023, 09:53:23 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 21, 2023, 12:14:29 AM
The corridor will not see its full benefits in terms of increased traffic volumes until it is fully complete as a four lane divided highway between I-66 and I-79.
Which essentially means there is not a need for this improvement, and any volume justifications would only be inducement that are served by other corridors.
This is such a backwards project, it is a road in search of volume and justification at the expense of the environment in a time of limited road funding and more progressive climate policy so somebody can have their SimCity grid fantasy completed (or some pork)?
You do realize that the entire point of the ADHS is to bring people into these rural areas to help revitalize them, right?

As for climate emissions... what excuse are you going to use once cars are all electric and won't emit CO2 anymore?  The complaint seems to be more about cars themselves than about the emissions.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Bitmapped

#1462
Quote from: zzcarp on October 21, 2023, 02:25:10 PM
Quote from: rover on October 21, 2023, 09:53:23 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 21, 2023, 12:14:29 AM
The corridor will not see its full benefits in terms of increased traffic volumes until it is fully complete as a four lane divided highway between I-66 and I-79.
Which essentially means there is not a need for this improvement, and any volume justifications would only be inducement that are served by other corridors.
This is such a backwards project, it is a road in search of volume and justification at the expense of the environment in a time of limited road funding and more progressive climate policy so somebody can have their SimCity grid fantasy completed (or some pork)?

Asserting some outsized environmental impact for this project is absurd. In an area of poor management in the past, engineers will improve the environmental conditions after the improvements are constructed, not degrade them.

The parts that remain to be built in West Virginia mostly traverse Monongahela and George Washington National Forest. The suggestion that the highway corridor is going to improve the environmental conditions is laughable, especially considering the record of WVDOH and its contractors for getting fined by WVDEP for permit violations on previous sections of Corridor H.

As for the through traffic comments others have made, good luck in the winter. WVDOH uses much salt on a per lane-mile basis than other agencies in surrounding states, has a fraction of the snow removal equipment of other agencies, and doesn't use deicers that are effective in the below-20 degree temperatures commonly seen in the winter. Look at WVDOH's webcams and you'll often find US 219 at Tucker County High School and Corridor H at Bismarck snow-covered days after a storm. Through traffic during the winter is far better served taking I-68, which has less exposure to high elevation terrain and much more capable SRIC operations in Maryland. I travel Corridor H east of Bismarck on the way to from Moorefield and the Shenandoah Valley a couple times a year. I make it a point to stay away from the Mount Storm area during anything that could involve winter weather conditions after some very bad experiences.

seicer

#1463
Quote from: rover on October 21, 2023, 07:44:19 PM
LOL, how/when has that ever been the case?
So a forest is better environmentally after a road is cut through it?
Are you kidding me?

Blackwater canyon will be environmentally better when there is a visible, loud, air polluting highway running adjacent/over?

You do realize it's not Blackwater Canyon?

It's the North Fork of the Blackwater River, and the highway as currently proposed will cut through former underground and strip-mined sites - not National Forest lands. The bridge will be in the vicinity of 300+ coke ovens, all of which were much more environmentally degrading than a highway will ever be. Toxic coke gas killed much of the vegetation for miles around, but the impact was limited as the trees had all been timbered to feed the massive lumber mills in Davis. The land today is still polluted, and acid mine drainage runs forth from several leaky plugs. There have been several expensive attempts at remedying the acidic drainage but none have worked successfully.

The deep valley starts south of there by Douglas Falls, which is within the National Forest Service boundary.

And while some of Corridor H cuts through two National Forest boundaries, much of the highway is on private lands. It doesn't excuse WVDOH's violations in the past but puts the highway location in context.

As for the deicing comment by @Bitmapped, the state has historically used more cinders/plowing than salt, which is probably for the better. There are numerous lakes in upstate New York that are becoming adversely affected by the massive amount of salt and deicing chemicals being dumped by NYSDOT. It's affecting ecosystems throughout the Adirondacks (as an example): https://www.protectadks.org/long-awaited-adirondack-road-salt-reduction-task-force-report-is-released/

Related, I noticed that WVDOH now has installed signs that require chains on trucks on US 219 in the winter during inclement conditions. Passenger cars should at least carry them. But with just one major snowfall for the 2022-23 season, the need for them is becoming less and less.

Bitmapped

Quote from: seicer on October 23, 2023, 10:43:50 AM
As for the deicing comment by @Bitmapped, the state has historically used more cinders/plowing than salt, which is probably for the better. There are numerous lakes in upstate New York that are becoming adversely affected by the massive amount of salt and deicing chemicals being dumped by NYSDOT. It's affecting ecosystems throughout the Adirondacks (as an example): https://www.protectadks.org/long-awaited-adirondack-road-salt-reduction-task-force-report-is-released/

Related, I noticed that WVDOH now has installed signs that require chains on trucks on US 219 in the winter during inclement conditions. Passenger cars should at least carry them. But with just one major snowfall for the 2022-23 season, the need for them is becoming less and less.

How many through travelers do you think are going to choose a route that forces them to significantly slow their travel speeds on snow-covered roadways or use tire chains?

seicer

Currently? Very few, as those signs are on US 219 which is not used heavily by through traffic - especially trucks. Once US 48 is completed through the area, trucks can use the expressway which does not have a requirement for chains. Regardless, truck drivers driving in this terrain already carry chains.

hbelkins

I drove what was completed of Corridor H during a heavy snow along the Allegheny Front back in 2004. At the time, the only section completed was from Baker to the East Moorefield exit. Beyond that, I took US 220 south, WV 28 south/WV 55 west, and WV 42 west to Bismarck. The snow picked up west of Petersburg and was very heavy all the way to the Davis area. WVDOH was plowing and spreading cinders between Petersburg and Davis. I saw no indication the road was salted.

The snow was markedly less beyond Thomas and there was much less on the ground at Parsons. By the time I got to Elkins and Buckhannon, it was practically nonexistent.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

seicer

Similarly, I drove on Corridor H from Moorefield west to Davis in a blizzard two years ago. It was later in the night and I passed only *one* car in the opposing direction - another Subaru. The lanes had been plowed at least once, and the lanes were cindered, but they were not salted because of the lower temperatures. Salt is not effective below 20F.

The state does use salt and brine on the Corridor H segments west of Elkins, and it's absolutely destroyed the concrete pavement over the years. It's not a terribly old roadway in parts.

rover

Quote from: Bitmapped on October 22, 2023, 02:55:04 PM
Quote from: zzcarp on October 21, 2023, 02:25:10 PM
Quote from: rover on October 21, 2023, 09:53:23 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 21, 2023, 12:14:29 AM
The corridor will not see its full benefits in terms of increased traffic volumes until it is fully complete as a four lane divided highway between I-66 and I-79.
Which essentially means there is not a need for this improvement, and any volume justifications would only be inducement that are served by other corridors.
This is such a backwards project, it is a road in search of volume and justification at the expense of the environment in a time of limited road funding and more progressive climate policy so somebody can have their SimCity grid fantasy completed (or some pork)?

Asserting some outsized environmental impact for this project is absurd. In an area of poor management in the past, engineers will improve the environmental conditions after the improvements are constructed, not degrade them.

The parts that remain to be built in West Virginia mostly traverse Monongahela and George Washington National Forest. The suggestion that the highway corridor is going to improve the environmental conditions is laughable, especially considering the record of WVDOH and its contractors for getting fined by WVDEP for permit violations on previous sections of Corridor H.

As for the through traffic comments others have made, good luck in the winter. WVDOH uses much salt on a per lane-mile basis than other agencies in surrounding states, has a fraction of the snow removal equipment of other agencies, and doesn't use deicers that are effective in the below-20 degree temperatures commonly seen in the winter. Look at WVDOH's webcams and you'll often find US 219 at Tucker County High School and Corridor H at Bismarck snow-covered days after a storm. Through traffic during the winter is far better served taking I-68, which has less exposure to high elevation terrain and much more capable SRIC operations in Maryland. I travel Corridor H east of Bismarck on the way to from Moorefield and the Shenandoah Valley a couple times a year. I make it a point to stay away from the Mount Storm area during anything that could involve winter weather conditions after some very bad experiences.
Excellent points, this is such a wasted, unnecessary road.
I forgot all about the snow and salt.
What a needless waste of $$.

The ARC has already brought appalachia into better access, finishing Corridor H is needlessly redundant.

SP Cook

With all respect, you simply do not know what you are talking about. 

Corridor H will improve lives, and it will SAVE lives.  That SHOULD be important to you, and everyone.  Sad to see that it isn't.

Alps

Quote from: SP Cook on October 31, 2023, 09:47:07 AM
With all respect, you simply do not know what you are talking about. 

Corridor H will improve lives, and it will SAVE lives.  That SHOULD be important to you, and everyone.  Sad to see that it isn't.
Higher speed limit will COST lives.

seicer

#1471
The safety of each road is arguable. US 219 has speed limits ranging from 25 to 55 MPH, with numerous bends and steep inclines. Notably, the ascent on Backbone Mountain is where trucks often need to use chains. There are few areas for trucks to exit the highway when their brakes overheat. On the other hand, Corridor H has speed limits between 55 and 65 MPH and features milder inclines. However, only a few sections of this road have runaway ramps.

While higher speeds might be associated with more severe injuries, this risk could be balanced by fewer accidents due to decreased traffic on certain roads.

After West Virginia increased speed limits to 70 MPH on interstates and 65 MPH on four-lane corridor routes, there has been a notable decrease in fatalities and serious injuries. According to WVDOH, since 2009, fatalities have dropped by 25% and serious injuries by 69% (as mentioned on page 8). Meanwhile, the Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) rate has remained consistent (as seen on page 14). Most accidents are because of speeding/aggressive driving followed by roadway departures and then speeding.

Interestingly, 65% of fatalities and serious injuries involved roadway departure crashes and 56% of these were on state routes or county/HARP routes, not roads like Corridor H/US 48 (as seen on page 22). Unfortunately, those rates are not broken down further other than interstate/US route/WV route/county or HARP route/city street/other, so accidents on Corridor H/US 48 will get lumped into those on US 219. Therefore, an argument that Corridor H will increase accident rates because it has a higher speed limit is not an accurate statement.

Raising the speed limits in Virginia also did not produce an increase in focus crash types, either.

SP Cook

Quote from: Alps on October 31, 2023, 07:28:38 PM

Corridor H will improve lives, and it will SAVE lives.  That SHOULD be important to you, and everyone.  Sad to see that it isn't.
Higher speed limit will COST lives.
[/quote]

WRONG.

First, every speed limits have been followed by a decline in traffic mortality, every time they have been tried.  The IDIOTS who advocated for the NMSL were simply wrong.

Second, HAVE YOU PERSONALLY EVER DRIVEN THE CURRENT ROAD?  If you have, and you do not understand how many lives will be saved by a modern high speed highway, you lack the ability to comment on this subject.

Rothman

Quote from: SP Cook on November 01, 2023, 09:11:06 AM
Quote from: Alps on October 31, 2023, 07:28:38 PM

Corridor H will improve lives, and it will SAVE lives.  That SHOULD be important to you, and everyone.  Sad to see that it isn't.
Higher speed limit will COST lives.

WRONG.

First, every speed limits have been followed by a decline in traffic mortality, every time they have been tried.  The IDIOTS who advocated for the NMSL were simply wrong.

Second, HAVE YOU PERSONALLY EVER DRIVEN THE CURRENT ROAD?  If you have, and you do not understand how many lives will be saved by a modern high speed highway, you lack the ability to comment on this subject.
[/quote]*suspicious of rants that caveat themselves*
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

seicer

Justice approves award for next section of Corridor H from Kerens to Parsons

During the 2024 State of the State Address on Wednesday night, Gov. Jim Justice announced that construction on the next section of Corridor H will soon begin. Specifically, the section that will connect Kerens to Parsons.

According to a release, the project will pave a 3.3-mile four-lane stretch of highway that will run from U.S. Route 219 to the interchange with West Virginia Toute 72. The project, once completed, will also allow the West Virginia Division of Highways to open a new section of Corridor H to traffic.

[...]

This is section two of a five-section project and paving work will be done concurrently with section one of the project, which connects U.S. 219 with Kerens and is already being worked on by West Virginia Paving. Both sections are expected to open to traffic in the summer of 2025.



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