AARoads Forum

Hampton Drive in the West End area of Alexandria is in the process of being resurfaced and repainted on its entire extend between King St and Braddock Road. It will eventually have a single vehicle lane, a bike lane, and permanent parking. It used to have a full-time vehicle lane and a lane which was for parking or driving depending on the time of day.

Unlike the majority of the country, Arlington and Alexandria are both effectively built-out, so new roads are rare and are usually built to make a road grid.

95Hoo you'll be interested in the Alexandria update because it concerns your commute.

Arlington: 11th Street South between South Walter Reed and South Edgeewood has now opened. Google Maps does not reflect it yet. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8616399,-77.0871386,19z

Alexandria: The City has approved a new small area plan (Eisenhower West) which will create several new streets as the area near the Van Dorn Metro gets rebuilt. It will include rezoning. A major new road will be the "Farrington Connector", which will cross Backlick Creek and connect Farrington Avenue to an area west of Van Dorn Street. See Page 7 for a map.
http://www.alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/planning/info/EisenhowerWest/EWSAPFinalReportLoRes120115.pdf

Thanks. I was only able to glance at it, but that looks interesting enough to spend some time reading tonight on a larger screen.

It doesn't look like that access to Van Dorn Metro from points south will be fundamentally affected (besides more people living around there). If you use Van Dorn as a local road to get to retail/dining, then I suppose you can expect more residential volume.

The Farrington Connector could be a game changer though. I'm sure you've dealt with situations where there's something on Van Dorn, and because of the RR tracks, there are no alternative north-south axes. Any added crossings will add redundancy.

One of the real failures of this area, I believe, was the development patterns which necessarily forced everyone onto major arterials (Van Dorn, Franconia, King, Braddock, etc). While I understand that everyone wanted their neighborhood to be free of cut-through traffic, it just put more pressure on the arterial. And if the arterial has a problem, you're doomed. No workarounds. That's one of the saving graces about the urban parts of Arlington and Alexandria...the tight grid means that no one road can be a single point of failure.

I haven't had time to read the whole thing, but it's interesting. That's a City of Alexandria plan, so they couldn't control anything to the south, but the Beltway acts as a wall there anyway. The best those of us living south of that area could hope for is an improved Van Dorn/Eisenhower intersection and better light timing. (My current commute is on the Metro most days, but we drive to Springfield or Huntington, never Van Dorn.)

The Farrington Connector would be interesting depending on what they connect it to. Right now if you followed that route, you'd either go right on Pickett back to Van Dorn or you could cut through the Smoot Lumber car park to Edsall Road at the light outside Overlook (a lot of people use that route now between Pickett and Edsall to cut off several lights). I think I see the bridge on the other side, which looks to be planned for near where the new fire station is, as being more of a relief route simply because so many people turn off Van Dorn at Pickett to head east to Duke Street.

It'll be interesting to see what comes of all this. The timing is probably right. I believe the TSA plans to move its headquarters to that large vacant office building on the north side of Eisenhower (I think it's Victory Center?). If/when that happens, other commercial development, such as restaurants, will be needed to support the HQ. It'll also be interesting to see how this proposal competes with the plans, currently still in the rezoning process, to finish and redevelop the Kingstowne Town Center and Shopping Center, as well as the plans for more office space and the like around Springfield Mall. That'd be three of those sorts of things in close proximity.

I do note that morning traffic on Van Dorn has been lighter this fall than in past years. Fairfax County Public Schools changed the bell schedules this fall, with the high schools starting 40 to 50 minutes later than in the past (Edison used to start at 7:20 and now starts at either 8:00 or 8:10), and I'm sure that's helped. Obviously it's not the sole factor, but I'm sure it's contributed. Some parents don't like to leave for work until their kids leave for school.

BTW, regarding street layout, the big failure in this immediate vicinity is the lack of ways across the Beltway and the train tracks. Setting aside I-395, you have Van Dorn, Telegraph, Route 1, and the GW Parkway/Washington Street. That's it on this side of I-395, and due to the distance involved, Van Dorn bears a hefty load. Clermont Drive used to connect up to where Eisenhower is today via what is now the Eisenhower Connector, and it was planned to go up to Duke Street at the interchange just west of where Harris Teeter is now. Certainly Clermont south of the Beltway is not suitable for use as an arterial street. It'd be utterly inappropriate. BUT if it were connected to the light at the Eisenhower Connector interchange, it would become an important route, especially if that "multimodal bridge" connecting Eisenhower to Edsall at the BMW dealer were to be built. Oh well, doesn't matter, Clermont will never be reconnected.

Correct on TSA moving into the "Victory Center" on Eisenhower (although a judge has postponed the move after a complaint by a competitor property for the bid on the lease).

Crossing the Beltway and tracks is plain tough, no? There are so many equities involved (VDOT, CSX/NS, local, etc).

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8076885,-77.1134069,16z

On this google map session, you can see the stub for the Clermont connector on the south side of the creek/tracks, and the ramp leading from Duke into the middle of the Brenman Park. Looking at this article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1990/03/08/clermont-project-advances/9dc98667-35be-462e-be11-af112ec64229/
), it appears that the controversy surrounding a Clermont connector goes back 25 years (if not more).

I agree that the ship has long sailed for any new major connectors such as Clermont. I think the City is doubling down on building out densely that area of the City.

EDIT: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/10/24/a-history-of-the-connector-and-development-in-the-eisenhower-valley/172b4f4b-8ff1-4f85-8f36-aca88fbe0cab/ More backstory on the connector (or lack thereof)

Just to be clear, my reference to connecting Clermont was referring more to the notion of re-establishing a connection that was lost years ago, namely connecting the portion of Clermont between Franconia Road and just south of the Beltway sound wall to what is now the Eisenhower Connector. The sound wall has a gap that's used for a pedestrian/bike connection to the light at the bottom of the ramps between the Outer Loop and the Connector (I have never seen anyone use this gap, though I know cyclists do use that route to avoid the considerably steeper hill on Van Dorn to the west). Once upon a time the street ran through there, and note that north of Eisenhower the stub-end next to the self-storage place is called Clermont. In theory, the sound wall there could be removed and the street reconnected to create an important new route across the Beltway.

That's in theory. In reality, as I noted before, it will never happen, and I think it's fair to say it should never happen because the road is utterly unsuitable for the volume of traffic it might attract. The following is a Street View link showing the view to the north at the last intersection before the sound wall. Put simply, this is not appropriate for a thru route.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.800413,-77.111583,3a,66.8y,2.81h,84.94t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1su9JQpv0psRT_Z0gqBKX0oQ!2e0


But setting that aside, I've always thought it a bit odd the way Alexandria has done nothing to connect Eisenhower to the rest of the city's street grid. It's so isolated and it doesn't make sense to isolate an area you want to turn into a dense development. Bluestone Road, which is located just west of the WMATA storage yard, is another street that could have provided a connection; if they bridged the tracks, it'd connect to Wheeler Avenue next to the new police facility, and Wheeler in turn connects to Duke Street next to the McDonald's near Quaker Lane (which itself provides a straight shot up to Shirlington Circle). Every time I go through that area I picture the Dukes of Hazzard using Bluestone Road to jump the train tracks in the General Lee. But of course I recognize that Alexandria's concern is that if they connect Eisenhower, it might spur development in the Eisenhower corridor but it will also create a new thru route for commuters from Fairfax County.

I think it ultimately comes down to issue that bridging over the railroad tracks is a really costly endeavor. Hence I'll be happy with even just the Farrington Connector.

The next thing I want to see the city do is plan/zone to allow for the breaking up of the superblocks along Van Dorn, Whiting, Reynolds, Yoakum, etc on the West End.

Breaking up the west side of Yoakum is unlikely both because of the Watergate at Landmark development (my wife lived there before we got married, so I know the complex well) and because said development butts right up against the boundary with Fairfax County. Stulz Road, which serves the WAL back gate, is half in the city and half in the county. Between the Overlook development in the county, the extremely expensive Landmark Mews development, the long-established WAL, and a big hill just west of the county/city line, I doubt you'll see a new street grid there.

The east side of Whiting/west side of Van Dorn would be a fine place for redevelopment provided it doesn't result in more traffic lights on Van Dorn. Higher-density development makes sense in that area and is reasonably proximate to the Metro with a bit of a long walk. It'd be good to get rid of the juvenile detention center that's located behind the Landmark Towers Sunoco. It does not belong in that neighborhood and is a relic from a different time, utterly inappropriate for that area. They ought to move it down to Mill Road where the city jail is near the new Beltway ramp.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 01, 2015, 11:02:01 PM
Higher-density development makes sense in that area and is reasonably proximate to the Metro with a bit of a long walk.

Alexandria is deep into the planning phase of a partially grade-separated BRT system to run from Van Dorn to Shirlington/Pentagon via Van Dorn, Sanger, Beauregard. You can see some of the reserved right-of-way in front of the new development at Van Dorn + Pickett (where smashburger is). https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8046765,-77.1336462,101m/data=!3m1!1e3

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on December 01, 2015, 11:29:46 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 01, 2015, 11:02:01 PM
Higher-density development makes sense in that area and is reasonably proximate to the Metro with a bit of a long walk.

Alexandria is deep into the planning phase of a partially grade-separated BRT system to run from Van Dorn to Shirlington/Pentagon via Van Dorn, Sanger, Beauregard. You can see some of the reserved right-of-way in front of the new development at Van Dorn + Pickett (where smashburger is). https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8046765,-77.1336462,101m/data=!3m1!1e3

I had heard a little about that being a tentative idea the last time I talked to Lee District Supervisor Jeff McKay. Didn't know the plans had moved along. Thanks for the info.

BTW I didn't mean to say "grade-separated", I meant "ROW-separated". The BRT will be at street level at all times.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 01, 2015, 09:36:17 PM
BTW, regarding street layout, the big failure in this immediate vicinity is the lack of ways across the Beltway and the train tracks. Setting aside I-395, you have Van Dorn, Telegraph, Route 1, and the GW Parkway/Washington Street. That's it on this side of I-395, and due to the distance involved, Van Dorn bears a hefty load. Clermont Drive used to connect up to where Eisenhower is today via what is now the Eisenhower Connector, and it was planned to go up to Duke Street at the interchange just west of where Harris Teeter is now. Certainly Clermont south of the Beltway is not suitable for use as an arterial street. It'd be utterly inappropriate. BUT if it were connected to the light at the Eisenhower Connector interchange, it would become an important route, especially if that "multimodal bridge" connecting Eisenhower to Edsall at the BMW dealer were to be built. Oh well, doesn't matter, Clermont will never be reconnected.

Agree that Clermont on the Fairfax County side of the Beltway would be wildly inappropriate, because of grades that are steeper than on South Van Dorn Street at the Beltway. 

But for decades, there was a bridge over the Beltway between the Eisenhower Avenue Connector and South Van Dorn that was intended to provide more N-S highway capacity.  It was never connected to the street system on either side, and VDOT had it demolished five or ten years ago.

Hitting a few points from posts earlier back:

Quote from: 1995hooJust to be clear, my reference to connecting Clermont was referring more to the notion of re-establishing a connection that was lost years ago, namely connecting the portion of Clermont between Franconia Road and just south of the Beltway sound wall to what is now the Eisenhower Connector.

It should be noted that, prior to construction of Eisenhower Ave in the '70s, this was the only access to/from that corner of Alexandria, as was a similar overpass over the Beltway that existed roughly here (https://www.google.com/maps/dir//38.7990666,-77.1219127/@38.7992464,-77.1242326,16z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0).  This is the same overpass CP just commented about while I was writing this post.  The overpass survived into the '90s, but came down before 2002, possibly as part of the project that built the Clermont interchange).

It stands to reason that the Clermont interchange does not connect to the Fairfax County side for another reason besides the lack of road suitability or hills that Hoo and CP mentioned:  that area of "Rose Hill" was already heavily residential, including houses along Clermont, by then.  In fact, that area was already rapidly becoming residential even before the Beltway was finished in 1964.

QuoteThe sound wall has a gap that's used for a pedestrian/bike connection to the light at the bottom of the ramps between the Outer Loop and the Connector (I have never seen anyone use this gap, though I know cyclists do use that route to avoid the considerably steeper hill on Van Dorn to the west).

I used it myself on occasion, especially before the bike path across the Beltway at the Telegraph interchange was completed.  The bike ride along Elmwood Dr was always quieter than along Eisenhower, even though Eisenhower had/has a separate bike path.

QuoteBut setting that aside, I've always thought it a bit odd the way Alexandria has done nothing to connect Eisenhower to the rest of the city's street grid.

I wouldn't say they've done nothing.  They've actually tried a few times...twice at Clermont (the original proposal, which would've tied into the Brenman Park interchange on Duke St, 2nd proposal would've tied into Wheeler Ave), and another time at Bluestone Rd.  It's possible the Brenman Park connection died due to the park impacts (per aerial imagery, parts of the park date back at least to 1960), but the other connections were heavily opposed by residents north of the railroad.  The chief concern I recall hearing was the traffic and noise/air pollution from trucks that would use the connectors to get to Duke St.  This is in no small part why the latest proposal for a connector near the Van Dorn Metro is for a multi-modal connector:  bikes, peds, and buses.  No other vehicular traffic.  The city probably figures that, by prohibiting non-transit vehicles, they'll get fewer of the types of complaints that shot down previous connector proposals.

Quote from: AlexandriaVAAlexandria is deep into the planning phase of a partially grade-separated BRT system to run from Van Dorn to Shirlington/Pentagon via Van Dorn, Sanger, Beauregard. You can see some of the reserved right-of-way in front of the new development at Van Dorn + Pickett (where smashburger is). https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8046765,-77.1336462,101m/data=!3m1!1e3

"ROW-separated" in this case = dedicated transit lanes...as much as they can get.  The buffer for the new development is so the city has the width to rebuilt Van Dorn to include the dedicated transit lanes.

I attended many of the city public meetings from a few years ago when they were planning their overall "high-capacity transit corridor" network, of which Van Dorn/Beauregard is one of the three corridors (the other two being Duke St and CCPY extended down to Braddock Rd Metro).  The approved plan at the time was for BRT that could be converted to streetcar when demand warranted.  It also dovetails some into NVTC's Route 7 Transit Study (http://www.envisionroute7.com) from Tysons into Alexandria.  Two of the Route 7 options would utilize the Beauregard/Van Dorn corridor to connect Tysons with the Van Dorn Metro via either BRT or LRT.

I would love to see gradual integration of the various transitways being built/conceived (Potomac Yard, West End, Duke Street, Rt 7).

A few years ago we had a thread about the overpass froggie and CP have mentioned. I can't search for it just now, but I'll try to find it tonight. The area where it was to the south of the Beltway consists of a fairly new development. I drove back there one day to look for traces of the old road, but it wasn't clear to me who owned what property so I wound up not getting out of the car to explore because I didn't want to trespass on any homeowner's land.

From the Fairfax County imagery service (http://fairfaxcountygis.maps.arcgis.com) you can see a bridge present in 1997 and gone by 2007. Looks like it branched off of what's now "La Vista Drive". There's a vacant parcel in 1997 north of where the bridge is, presumably where it would connect to Eisenhower. That vacant parcel is now apartments.

Quote from: 1995hooA few years ago we had a thread about the overpass froggie and CP have mentioned. I can't search for it just now, but I'll try to find it tonight.

Oddly enough, you had initiated that thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4781) 4 years ago...

I remembered starting it. I just wasn't able to search when I typed that.

I always wondered why the dead end north of Eisenhower Avenu at the connector never went anywhere. This thread has solved a mystery that I had wondered about for some time.

Will this stub end of roadway ever cross the tracks in any fashion to the other side?

Quote from: TheOneKEA on December 06, 2015, 10:26:44 PM
I always wondered why the dead end north of Eisenhower Avenu at the connector never went anywhere. This thread has solved a mystery that I had wondered about for some time.

Will this stub end of roadway ever cross the tracks in any fashion to the other side?

Almost certainly not. The park north of the railroad tracks is popular with residents, both because of its proximity to Cameron Station and the trail, and that there are some athletic fields.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8082483,-77.1128235,17z

Additionally, the Small Area Plan (City guided planning document) for that area doesn't include a new crossing there. These area plans are decades-long blueprints, so it's absolutely off the table for the time being, if not permanently.

https://www.alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/planning/info/EisenhowerWest/EWSAPFinalReportLoRes120115.pdf  See page 7.

The new Seminary bypass bridge is now open for local traffic, according to my own view from 395 this afternoon. The ramp to/from the 395 HOV lanes is still closed, and the stoplight which will control the intersection is still shrouded.

Remaining is the 395 HOV ramp and the pedestrian bridge.

http://www.vamegaprojects.com/tasks/sites/default/assets/File/pdf/MARK_CENTER/Design%20PH%20Brochure%20-%20395%20HOV%20Ramp%20at%20Seminary%20%20(1).pdf

Projects on 395 at or nearing completion:

1) Tonight I noticed that the retaining wall project on the west side of the southbound 395 carriageway is complete, and the lane closure that had been in place there for several months was gone. A few work vehicles remained on the off-ramp "median", but my guess is they will be gone by week's end.

The project had been in place to perform emergency repairs on the retaining wall (http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/const/ForceAcct_I395.pdf)

2) A BGS was erected on 16 December at the base of the new Seminary HOV ramp. It is facing southbound, so northbound motorists will see it. The sign assembly continues over the northbound conventional carriageway. This GSV shows approximately where the BGS is:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8274336,-77.1184258,3a,75y,70.6h,84.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seylV-eN_da97nkDYJiaJFA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The northbound conventional carriageway reads SEMINARY ROAD. I presume that the HOV ramp sign will read the same. I won't be able to get any photos as I do not have a dash cam and it is not safe to snap pictures while driving on 395.

Light stands were installed yesterday on the east side of the new Seminary/395 HOV ramp. Not sure if they'll be installed on west side.

A standard HOV electronic information sign was installed on the east side of 395 on Seminary Road. It is shrouded. It will be replaced in a few years, presumably, with an HOT information sign.

The VDOT project page, updated 21 December, indicates that the HOV ramp will open "January 2016".

There was major construction last Friday night which required road closures. When day broke, I saw that there had been a new portion of the span of the pedestrian bridge put in place. They likely had to shut down 395 in order to place on the portion of the span, which goes over 395.

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on December 22, 2015, 10:30:34 AM
Light stands were installed yesterday on the east side of the new Seminary/395 HOV ramp. Not sure if they'll be installed on west side.

A standard HOV electronic information sign was installed on the east side of 395 on Seminary Road. It is shrouded. It will be replaced in a few years, presumably, with an HOT information sign.

If the plan is to only allow HOV traffic to use the ramps there, maybe it can stay as an HOV sign?  Or is that only for the new ramp you mention below that allows northbound exit and southbound entry?

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on December 22, 2015, 10:30:34 AM
The VDOT project page, updated 21 December, indicates that the HOV ramp will open "January 2016".

There was major construction last Friday night which required road closures. When day broke, I saw that there had been a new portion of the span of the pedestrian bridge put in place. They likely had to shut down 395 in order to place on the portion of the span, which goes over 395.

Should take a look at that when I am down that way.

Driving on Van Dorn yesterday we saw the northbound HOV exit sign covered up. It appears to be a standard small BGS, no sort of "HOV exit" or similar banner. Guess we'll see next month.

Project continues to inch near completion. As of the afternoon of 5 January, there was a "change in traffic pattern soon" (or something like that) orange sign facing southwards towards the south end of the ramp (i.e. people driving north on the 395 HOV lanes would see it on the right-most lane of the center carriageway). Also, the ramp appeared to be fully painted and blocked off by only cones. Most, but not all, heavy equipment was gone from the construction site. All lights and signs are in place, and are unlit and/or shrouded.

This morning, the lights at the top of the ramp were flashing yellow (but appear to have been still shrouded) and the raiseable barrier was blinking red as well.

Adam Tuss of Channel 4 tweeted this afternoon that the new ramp will open next week. He didn't say when next week.

http://redbricktown.com/2016/01/seminary-road-reversible-hov-ramp-to-open-next-week/

12 January, if all testing is successfully performed.

Quote@VaDOTNOVA

HOV ramp @ Seminary will open 1/11 for PM commute! Ramp is only for HOV-3+ & buses and will follow existing HOV reversal schedule.

We got a bit of a look at the new ramp as we passed by on Van Dorn this morning. The BGS just says "Seminary Rd" and has a center-mounted exit tab that says "HOV EXIT." I didn't see anything there indicating that it's always HOV-restricted. There was a small sign underneath the gore-point exit sign that said something about HOV, but we were too far away to be able to read it and we didn't turn onto Seminary to see what the signs going the other way say.

QuoteI didn't see anything there indicating that it's always HOV-restricted.

Probably not needed currently, since that ramp is only open during HOV hours, and is on the stretch of lanes that are HOV only during those hours.

Ah, I didn't realize it was closed at other hours. Thanks.

Quote from: froggie on January 14, 2016, 11:39:29 AM

QuoteI didn't see anything there indicating that it's always HOV-restricted.

Probably not needed currently, since that ramp is only open during HOV hours, and is on the stretch of lanes that are HOV only during those hours.

I think it was mentioned in another thread, but it is worth repeating that the plan is for that ramp to be open to HOV-3 traffic (and buses) even after Transurban converts the "free" HOV lanes along I-395 from Turkeycock Run to the Pentagon or to the Potomac River to HOV/Toll operation. 

In other words, paying SOV and HOV-2 traffic will not be allowed use of this ramp even when the rest of the reversible lanes in the middle of I-395 are HOV/Toll.  Wonder if that will "stick?"

I recall that too, and I still wonder if the ramp will require E-ZPass Flex. That is, you can be an HOV and still pay the toll if you don't get the Flex (say, like me, you never have three people). I assume they intend to restrict it to the Flex.

Quote from: froggie on January 14, 2016, 11:39:29 AM

QuoteI didn't see anything there indicating that it's always HOV-restricted.

Probably not needed currently, since that ramp is only open during HOV hours, and is on the stretch of lanes that are HOV only during those hours.

Came in to work late today due to a dental appointment, so I took the I-395 HOV (no HOV restriction due to federal holiday, though it was after 10:00 anyway). Contrary to what froggie says, the Seminary ramp is open at all times if the lanes are open. There was no barrier blocking anyone from exiting. There's only one BGS for it and it doesn't mention the all-times HOV rule. There are two portable VMS units as you go down the hill past the shopping mall and they both say the ramp is "HOV 3+ ONLY," though they do not say all times. The white sign at the gore point that I saw from Van Dorn says "HOV 3+ ONLY 24 HOURS," with the "24 HOURS" in tiny print.

I think they could definitely do a better job of signing this restriction. A white banner of the sort on the Beltway's Inner Loop BGSs approaching I-66 would probably do the job quite well. 

QuoteContrary to what froggie says, the Seminary ramp is open at all times if the lanes are open.

That's a change from what I had previously read...

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 18, 2016, 11:18:25 AM

Quote from: froggie on January 14, 2016, 11:39:29 AM

QuoteI didn't see anything there indicating that it's always HOV-restricted.

Probably not needed currently, since that ramp is only open during HOV hours, and is on the stretch of lanes that are HOV only during those hours.

Came in to work late today due to a dental appointment, so I took the I-395 HOV (no HOV restriction due to federal holiday, though it was after 10:00 anyway). Contrary to what froggie says, the Seminary ramp is open at all times if the lanes are open. There was no barrier blocking anyone from exiting. There's only one BGS for it and it doesn't mention the all-times HOV rule. There are two portable VMS units as you go down the hill past the shopping mall and they both say the ramp is "HOV 3+ ONLY," though they do not say all times. The white sign at the gore point that I saw from Van Dorn says "HOV 3+ ONLY 24 HOURS," with the "24 HOURS" in tiny print.

I think they could definitely do a better job of signing this restriction. A white banner of the sort on the Beltway's Inner Loop BGSs approaching I-66 would probably do the job quite well.

I believe part of the reason for this might be the way funding was allocated for the ramp.  The ramp funds were for an HOV project, so it must only be HOV.

Of course, it would be silly to enforce this restriction.  [It is also silly to force all HOV's who do not want to pay toll and all SOVs willing to pay tolls to transfer out of the express lanes at Turkeycock.]

The ramp should follow whatever restrictions the express lanes have.  Currently, HOV only during rush - all others during non-rush only in the predominant direction.  In the future, HO/T lanes open to toll with an EZ-Pass or HOV3 with EZ-Pass Flex.

Alexandria is considering a road diet on King Street:

http://alexandriava.gov/localmotion/info/default.aspx?id=86423

and on North Van Dorn Street:

http://www.alexandriava.gov/localmotion/info/default.aspx?id=88173

Both would involve removing vehicle lanes and expanding pedestrian and on-road bicycle facilities.

People definitely try to go too fast on that stretch of North Van Dorn, especially around the sharp curve to the right after the apartments on the left heading north.

Alexandria has removed a slip lead, which had led from eastbound on Menokin Drive onto southbound North Van Dorn Street. It's part of a larger "Complete Streets" program for North Van Dorn, which will result in North Van Dorn between Braddock and Menokin being shrunk from 4 lanes to 2 lanes, and the installation of center turn lanes (where necessary) and protected bike lanes.

Before and after:

https://goo.gl/maps/xsPdirFYekL2

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/P3Stkm71tIfOBXcz29aei3PlfUA9XBZLITYcilR67wRX-ROWLvqMuLZFZnOl5bP7S3Pw0JPVEpWmETl5hm6fcLKC8Z6YXvp_gqfkeFV4fIc_JuHewXcILa7mLFrNY4W79tPR7KgiVB1jp3lH4qqKWIdMufZ-fEghofCDxT6_h4MpBtXwRjcFvoj5VglW4WWig6Ps58kpfLUzOsBYgtq4mOx08AlCO2z1kju7iJuoKFGc-liKKT3w4fizIPiJ0ZU9eE6C_klFcftWfuC5Urb-HamEWG4S2SE_GPtVrALWhaC1j-k-HgT8jBh_MHZUBUbciR9vmdJLLVNARNk3UFiGXxYMtSO26nj7_7AhSVoumIlgLoXPe42C6JpvENdLw5KqJAvrWVWuaSevYb52f90JvdovBl62G49cx1MagO-L2r9i72_IvAQelN_HfHq1uSU_pGThQInXT2Lml5UeHGHI4TsVUyEisqnPmVFOqIcyFjVsLLIVgMICSWS6Aqmn1Lz6uluCfRxC8pa_Elr_wvudpZ1Tf7zyL-WedwVwLrhbpYba22y6_fgek8sNw1fEdrOwXVI6eWdQnmXobXjoRG8mo3WBV_Ufp4w=w1145-h643-no)

https://newsroom.arlingtonva.us/release/arlington-to-request-ownership-of-part-of-state-route-237/

QuoteArlington Seeks to Own Part of State Route 237

QuoteArlington County wants to own State Route 237 (Fairfax Drive/10th St. North) from roughly Ballston to Courthouse.

The County Board voted at its July 18, 2017 meeting to request that the Commonwealth transfer ownership of the stretch of road to Arlington. If approved, the move would put 6.61 lane miles from the state route's intersection with North Glebe Road to its intersection with North Barton Street under Arlington's control.

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 20, 2017, 09:48:10 AM
https://newsroom.arlingtonva.us/release/arlington-to-request-ownership-of-part-of-state-route-237/

QuoteArlington Seeks to Own Part of State Route 237

QuoteArlington County wants to own State Route 237 (Fairfax Drive/10th St. North) from roughly Ballston to Courthouse.

The County Board voted at its July 18, 2017 meeting to request that the Commonwealth transfer ownership of the stretch of road to Arlington. If approved, the move would put 6.61 lane miles from the state route's intersection with North Glebe Road to its intersection with North Barton Street under Arlington's control.

Why not?  It's not very well signed as a state primary network highway (and last time I was rode by the area, there was no mention at all of VA-237 at the reconstructed interchange at U.S. 50 (Arlington Boulevard)).

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 20, 2017, 08:38:05 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 20, 2017, 09:48:10 AM
https://newsroom.arlingtonva.us/release/arlington-to-request-ownership-of-part-of-state-route-237/

QuoteArlington Seeks to Own Part of State Route 237

QuoteArlington County wants to own State Route 237 (Fairfax Drive/10th St. North) from roughly Ballston to Courthouse.

The County Board voted at its July 18, 2017 meeting to request that the Commonwealth transfer ownership of the stretch of road to Arlington. If approved, the move would put 6.61 lane miles from the state route's intersection with North Glebe Road to its intersection with North Barton Street under Arlington's control.

Why not?  It's not very well signed as a state primary network highway (and last time I was rode by the area, there was no mention at all of VA-237 at the reconstructed interchange at U.S. 50 (Arlington Boulevard).

VA 237 doesn't really go anywhere in particular so I wouldn't be upset if VDOT just decommissioned the whole thing (reverting those parts not in cities or Arlington County to secondary status). Or truncate it to VA 7 in Falls Church.

Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 24, 2017, 11:52:26 AM
VA 237 doesn't really go anywhere in particular so I wouldn't be upset if VDOT just decommissioned the whole thing (reverting those parts not in cities or Arlington County to secondary status). Or truncate it to VA 7 in Falls Church.

My  personal preference would be to retain the Washington Boulevard section from U.S. 29 north of Falls Church to VA-120 (North Glebe Road), because that's an important alternate route to U.S. 29 for trucks (most of which may not use U.S. 50 (weight restrictions mean no trucks over 8 tons gross) and may  not use I-66 (no trucks at all from I-495 to the Rosslyn Tunnel)).

QuoteAlexandria Sets Ambitious Goal: No Traffic Deaths Or Serious Injuries By 2028

https://wamu.org/story/17/11/08/alexandria-sets-ambitious-goal-no-traffic-deaths-serious-injuries-2028/

QuoteOn Wednesday city leaders are expected to unveil Alexandria' two-year action plan, a series of initiatives aimed at re-engineering streets to slow down cars, enforcing traffic laws, and educating all road users to be alert at all times.

QuoteA section of King Street was reconfigured in 2016 to make it safer for pedestrians. The number and width of traffic lanes were reduced, and the speed limit was dropped from 35 to 25 mph. Safety advocates said the results are impressive: zero crashes in the first year after the re-configuration, compared to seven crashes annually in the decade prior.

I don't know how anyone can argue with those results. I've driven and biked that stretch of King (between TC Williams and Scroggins), and the difference is like night and day.

A road has been closed in Crystal City, part of the county's efforts to remove most (if not all) of the flyovers and ramps built in Crystal City in the 1960s. The road in this case is the elevated portion of South Clark Street.

The photo in the linked article does not show the closure, but I was up there the other day and can confirmed it is closed-off with cones. Perhaps I will be able to get a demolition photo.

https://www.arlnow.com/2018/02/05/end-of-the-road-for-elevated-portion-of-s-clark-street/

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on February 07, 2018, 11:44:22 PM
A road has been closed in Crystal City, part of the county's efforts to remove most (if not all) of the flyovers and ramps built in Crystal City in the 1960s. The road in this case is the elevated portion of South Clark Street.

Actually, those to-be-removed bridges along S. Clark St were built in 1986-7. The 1960's Shirley Highway work stopped after the bridge for US-1 (planned to be I-595) over 12th St, leaving US-1 thru Crystal City as a 4 lane road with no turn lanes for another 2 decades. It is correct that this section of Clark Street saw very little use. Makes me wonder what happened to the VHS tapes from my dashboard-mounted video camera of the 80's widening work.

Quote from: davewiecking on February 11, 2018, 10:16:21 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on February 07, 2018, 11:44:22 PM
A road has been closed in Crystal City, part of the county's efforts to remove most (if not all) of the flyovers and ramps built in Crystal City in the 1960s. The road in this case is the elevated portion of South Clark Street.

Actually, those to-be-removed bridges along S. Clark St were built in 1986-7. The 1960's Shirley Highway work stopped after the bridge for US-1 (planned to be I-595) over 12th St, leaving US-1 thru Crystal City as a 4 lane road with no turn lanes for another 2 decades. It is correct that this section of Clark Street saw very little use. Makes me wonder what happened to the VHS tapes from my dashboard-mounted video camera of the 80's widening work.

On my website I have these dates for the completions --
-- Shirley Highway reconstruction segment between Washington Blvd. and 14th Street Bridge, including 0.4 mile of unsigned I-595 -- completion 1975 (built 1972-75)
-- US-1 six lane arterial reconstruction between unsigned I-595 and Glebe Road -- completion 1988.

The segment of unsigned I-595 was subsequently removed from the Interstate system.

Not actually in Alexandria, but the post office insists on an Alexandria address, so I guess it's close enough: There's a new 55+ neighborhood under construction near our house. No houses in place yet, but they've constructed the streets. Street signs went up this weekend. They're far enough away that I can't make out the suffix (Drive, Street, whatever), but I swear the street sign I can see has the name "Beatles" on it. Can't see the other street sign.

Edited to add: Looked over on our way out this morning and I think it says "Beatles Lane."  I wonder what the other street will be. No way I'm tromping through all the mud after this weekend's rain just to look at a street sign.

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2018, 07:28:06 AM
Not actually in Alexandria, but the post office insists on an Alexandria address, so I guess it's close enough: There's a new 55+ neighborhood under construction near our house. No houses in place yet, but they've constructed the streets. Street signs went up this weekend. They're far enough away that I can't make out the suffix (Drive, Street, whatever), but I swear the street sign I can see has the name "Beatles" on it. Can't see the other street sign.

Edited to add: Looked over on our way out this morning and I think it says "Beatles Lane."  I wonder what the other street will be. No way I'm tromping through all the mud after this weekend's rain just to look at a street sign.

Don't worry.  We'll wait until the weather is nice for a full report.

I wonder if they will have a theme of street names, which is common amongst such developments.  And if they have a Beatles Lane, there will probably also be streets for the Rolling Stones and other rockers that the target population listened to when they were young.

I doubt they'll have "Rolling Stone" or "Rolling Stones" because there's already a "Rolling Stone Way" a little over two miles away, although I suspect the theme is different there because it intersects Bedrock Road and Flintstone Drive.

Funny thing is, one of the two "Beatles Lane" signs went missing this weekend, although I have no idea whether it was sign theft or the workmen removing it. I might drive over closer to there today depending on what the weather does (it's another rainy morning).


Edited to add: It's a bit far to tell for certain without using binoculars, but I believe, based on what I could make out this morning, that the other street sign I can see up there says "Clapton" (don't know the street type suffix, too small to read).

Finally got pictures. (Clames Drive is an existing street that's been there for many years.)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/917ca4f580282a1ae3282be67d0742d7.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/08d459003552b6c55209ee119b7a2ff0.jpg)

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 24, 2018, 03:19:03 PM
Finally got pictures. (Clames Drive is an existing street that's been there for many years.)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/917ca4f580282a1ae3282be67d0742d7.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180324/08d459003552b6c55209ee119b7a2ff0.jpg)

That neighborhood is a classic rock fan's dream.

Seems to me there needs to be a third street named "Weeping Guitar Way," given Clapton's involvement in said Beatles song.

About 30 years I sat in on some planning board meeting for a subdivision proposed for Point of Rocks MD, it was to be called Hobbiton Hills and had as the main road Thorin Oakensheild Dr, it was not approved.

Thorin isn't a hobbit (he's a dwarf), so of course they rejected that!  :-D

Clapton at least performed on the White Album.

New name for Jefferson Davis Highway recommended in Alexandria (https://wtop.com/alexandria/2018/05/new-name-jefferson-davis-highway-recommended-alexandria/)

QuoteCity Manager Mark Jinks has recommended replacing the name of U.S. Route 1 in the Potomac Yard area  with the name Richmond Highway beginning on Jan. 1, 2019.

QuoteIf the name change is approved, Alexandria would replace 10 basic street signs, one large street sign and nine illuminated street signs at an expected cost of $27,150.

QuoteWhile Arlington and Alexandria are cooperating on the potential change, only Alexandria has the legal authority to do it.

A bill that would have given counties similar street naming powers to those that cities already have failed this year in Richmond.

I remember there was a developer in the South that named all of the roads in a particular subdivision after heavy metal bands.  Unfortunately, he included an Anthrax Street, which was not too popular of an idea in the fall of 2001.

Quote from: BrianP on May 04, 2018, 03:15:38 PM

QuoteA recommendation from Jinks to be taken up by the city council Tuesday would set a public hearing on the name change June 23.

Which is where opinions can be voiced.  Then again people can cry bloody murder and the council could say 'hey we let opinions be voiced.  But we don't have to be swayed by them.'  And then proceed anyway.

Do not be shocked if some of the affected businesses and residents express support for the name change. For example, if some businesses believe the current name puts them at a competitive disadvantage, because it offends some customers/potential customers.

We'll know more about how the net impact on the businesses and residents by June. But at least city officials seem to be acknowledging, as they might not have before, that the direct costs to the city government are only part of the proposed name change's fiscal impact.

Quote from: oscar on May 05, 2018, 01:21:10 PM
Do not be shocked if some of the affected businesses and residents express support for the name change. For example, if some businesses believe the current name puts them at a competitive disadvantage, because it offends some customers/potential customers.
We'll know more about how the net impact on the businesses and residents by June. But at least city officials seem to be acknowledging, as they might not have before, that the direct costs to the city government are only part of the proposed name change's fiscal impact.

That is not a good sign that city officials are just now understanding some of the basic elements of such a process.  Probably there will be some on that road that support a change.  There needs to be a recognized and tested official process that engages all stakeholders in analyzing the impacts.

We had something similar happen here in Norman with De Barr Avenue. De Barr was named after an early vice president of the University of Oklahoma (talk about obscure). Well, come to find out, old Professor De Barr had been in the KKK. So last year the city council changed the name of the street to Deans Row Avenue.

Of course, this case was much simpler because 1) Nobody really had any real attachment to Professor De Barr 2) The street is a short residential street 3) Much of the street is rental properties for college students, so it wasn't a huge inconvenience to anyone anyway, as the property owners don't have to live there and most of the tenants won't be there for long anyway–by this point, the majority of the people living on Deans Row Avenue probably never lived on De Barr Avenue.

Please calm down with the politics of this thread.  This is the second time today that posts have been removed.  -Mark

Alexandria's city council voted to rename their Jeff Davis Highway portion of US-1 to Richmond Highway, effective next January 1, because that name is consistent with Fairfax County's portion. Without commenting in any way on whether renaming is good or bad, I think if it is to be renamed, Richmond Highway is about as logical as there is, although I do have to point out that it's still not perfect because it's not adjacent to Fairfax County's portion. The paired one-way streets through Old Town are Patrick Street and Henry Street, and the short segment south of the paired one-way streets down to the county line is called South Patrick Street, while the segment north of the paired one-way streets up to the bridge over the train tracks is North Henry Street. But, of course, calling it Richmond Highway all the way through Alexandria wouldn't work due to the paired one-way streets, and Patrick Henry Street would be too confusing due to those one-way segments. (There's also a Patrick Henry Drive near Seven Corners, though I don't know how much confusion that would cause.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/alexandria-renames-jefferson-davis-highway-to-richmond-highway/2018/06/23/a1af93c0-76fe-11e8-b4b7-308400242c2e_story.html?hpid=hp_local-news_alexandria-1245pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

(Link may be subject to paywall depending on how many Post articles you've viewed and whether you're a subscriber.)

^ What you could say, though, is that US 1 is Patrick and Henry Streets through Old Town, and Richmond Highway outside of old town.....even moreso if Arlington County follows suit.

Quote from: froggie on June 24, 2018, 08:10:50 AM
^ What you could say, though, is that US 1 is Patrick and Henry Streets through Old Town, and Richmond Highway outside of old town.....even moreso if Arlington County follows suit.

Arlington County may  not decide on its own - they have to have approval from the Virginia General Assembly because they are a county.

Because Arlington County  maintains the streets that would be secondary roads in the vast majority of other Virginia counties,  it's not  at all clear that they need approval to change the names of streets that the county (and not the Commonwealth) maintains.

But in this case, all of Jefferson Davis Highway in Arlington County  is maintained by VDOT (and it may be the only  place in  Virginia where Jefferson  Davis Highway is not U.S. 1, since the northernmost part (a little over 2 miles) is VA-110 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.8643387,-77.0511492/38.894881,-77.0675986/@38.8655685,-77.0525655,17z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0)).

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 23, 2018, 04:31:52 PM
Alexandria's city council voted to rename their Jeff Davis Highway portion of US-1 to Richmond Highway, effective next January 1, because that name is consistent with Fairfax County's portion. Without commenting in any way on whether renaming is good or bad, I think if it is to be renamed, Richmond Highway is about as logical as there is, although I do have to point out that it's still not perfect because it's not adjacent to Fairfax County's portion. The paired one-way streets through Old Town are Patrick Street and Henry Street, and the short segment south of the paired one-way streets down to the county line is called South Patrick Street, while the segment north of the paired one-way streets up to the bridge over the train tracks is North Henry Street. But, of course, calling it Richmond Highway all the way through Alexandria wouldn't work due to the paired one-way streets, and Patrick Henry Street would be too confusing due to those one-way segments. (There's also a Patrick Henry Drive near Seven Corners, though I don't know how much confusion that would cause.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/alexandria-renames-jefferson-davis-highway-to-richmond-highway/2018/06/23/a1af93c0-76fe-11e8-b4b7-308400242c2e_story.html?hpid=hp_local-news_alexandria-1245pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

(Link may be subject to paywall depending on how many Post articles you've viewed and whether you're a subscriber.)

Yes, and also without commenting on whether this is good or bad, "Richmond Highway" could still be read as a tribute to the Confederacy, what with Richmond being the capital of the CSA.

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 25, 2018, 09:59:40 AM
Yes, and also without commenting on whether this is good or bad, "Richmond Highway" could still be read as a tribute to the Confederacy, what with Richmond being the capital of the CSA.

Yes, that's correct, though to me Richmond is more  important because it is the capital city of  the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 25, 2018, 09:59:40 AM

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 23, 2018, 04:31:52 PM
Alexandria's city council voted to rename their Jeff Davis Highway portion of US-1 to Richmond Highway, effective next January 1, because that name is consistent with Fairfax County's portion. Without commenting in any way on whether renaming is good or bad, I think if it is to be renamed, Richmond Highway is about as logical as there is, although I do have to point out that it's still not perfect because it's not adjacent to Fairfax County's portion. The paired one-way streets through Old Town are Patrick Street and Henry Street, and the short segment south of the paired one-way streets down to the county line is called South Patrick Street, while the segment north of the paired one-way streets up to the bridge over the train tracks is North Henry Street. But, of course, calling it Richmond Highway all the way through Alexandria wouldn't work due to the paired one-way streets, and Patrick Henry Street would be too confusing due to those one-way segments. (There's also a Patrick Henry Drive near Seven Corners, though I don't know how much confusion that would cause.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/alexandria-renames-jefferson-davis-highway-to-richmond-highway/2018/06/23/a1af93c0-76fe-11e8-b4b7-308400242c2e_story.html?hpid=hp_local-news_alexandria-1245pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

(Link may be subject to paywall depending on how many Post articles you've viewed and whether you're a subscriber.)

Yes, and also without commenting on whether this is good or bad, "Richmond Highway" could still be read as a tribute to the Confederacy, what with Richmond being the capital of the CSA.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 25, 2018, 12:16:48 PM

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 25, 2018, 09:59:40 AM
Yes, and also without commenting on whether this is good or bad, "Richmond Highway" could still be read as a tribute to the Confederacy, what with Richmond being the capital of the CSA.

Yes, that's correct, though to me Richmond is more  important because it is the capital city of  the Commonwealth of Virginia.

One could rationalize that by noting that on the flip side of things, US 1 in Hanover County (leaving the Richmond area) is called Washington Highway; a Richmond Highway leaving the DC area just makes sense if you view Richmond just as a place and ignore the Confederate capital aspect.

Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on June 25, 2018, 01:33:38 PM

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 25, 2018, 09:59:40 AM

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 23, 2018, 04:31:52 PM
Alexandria's city council voted to rename their Jeff Davis Highway portion of US-1 to Richmond Highway, effective next January 1, because that name is consistent with Fairfax County's portion. Without commenting in any way on whether renaming is good or bad, I think if it is to be renamed, Richmond Highway is about as logical as there is, although I do have to point out that it's still not perfect because it's not adjacent to Fairfax County's portion. The paired one-way streets through Old Town are Patrick Street and Henry Street, and the short segment south of the paired one-way streets down to the county line is called South Patrick Street, while the segment north of the paired one-way streets up to the bridge over the train tracks is North Henry Street. But, of course, calling it Richmond Highway all the way through Alexandria wouldn't work due to the paired one-way streets, and Patrick Henry Street would be too confusing due to those one-way segments. (There's also a Patrick Henry Drive near Seven Corners, though I don't know how much confusion that would cause.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/alexandria-renames-jefferson-davis-highway-to-richmond-highway/2018/06/23/a1af93c0-76fe-11e8-b4b7-308400242c2e_story.html?hpid=hp_local-news_alexandria-1245pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

(Link may be subject to paywall depending on how many Post articles you've viewed and whether you're a subscriber.)

Yes, and also without commenting on whether this is good or bad, "Richmond Highway" could still be read as a tribute to the Confederacy, what with Richmond being the capital of the CSA.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 25, 2018, 12:16:48 PM

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 25, 2018, 09:59:40 AM
Yes, and also without commenting on whether this is good or bad, "Richmond Highway" could still be read as a tribute to the Confederacy, what with Richmond being the capital of the CSA.

Yes, that's correct, though to me Richmond is more  important because it is the capital city of  the Commonwealth of Virginia.

One could rationalize that by noting that on the flip side of things, US 1 in Hanover County (leaving the Richmond area) is called Washington Highway; a Richmond Highway leaving the DC area just makes sense if you view Richmond just as a place and ignore the Confederate capital aspect.

This is normal.  In MD, US 1 is known as Baltimore Ave (or Blvd) in much of PG County and then in Laurel (and all parts to the north, including Howard County) it is known as Washington Blvd.  So this fits very well.

Now thinking of another highway 1, in Los Angeles County CA-1 is mostly known as PCH (from Ventura County through to about I-10 and from Redondo Beach to Orange County).  The parts in the middle (Santa Monica, Venice, Playa Vista, El Segundo, Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach) have the name of local streets (Lincoln Blvd or Sepulveda Blvd).  So the road is generally PCH, even though there are portions of it through some cities that have an alternate name.  Not too confusing.

And for a more local example, VA-7 is mostly known as Leesburg Pike in the DC area.  But it's known as Broad St in Falls Church and King St in Alexandria, and that is still not too confusing.

So in a similar vein, US 1 is Richmond Highway, except through Old Town where it takes on Patrick or Henry.  Not too confusing.

This isn't really road-related, but I figured people who read this thread might like the photo. Our relatives from Fort Myers visited us this week and yesterday we went to Mount Vernon and the George Washington Masonic National Memorial. I had been to the latter once more than 30 years ago but didn't remember much. This is the view of Old Town from the top (you can also see the Wilson Bridge, National Harbor, and the MGM). It's well worth the $15 for the tour.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180706/a916c8ec4c19b4df7717c6401cec4d7c.jpg)

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2018, 12:33:19 PM
This isn't really road-related, but I figured people who read this thread might like the photo. Our relatives from Fort Myers visited us this week and yesterday we went to Mount Vernon and the George Washington Masonic National Memorial. I had been to the latter once more than 30 years ago but didn't remember much. This is the view of Old Town from the top (you can also see the Wilson Bridge, National Harbor, and the MGM). It's well worth the $15 for the tour.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180706/a916c8ec4c19b4df7717c6401cec4d7c.jpg)

You can actually go inside of the Masonic National Memorial?

I did not know this. I will have to check it out.

Yes, but you have to go through Masonic propaganda, more or less, before going to the top. Views are nice though.

If you need a road tie-in, Alexandria is planning on redesigning the island at the foot of the hill: https://www.alexandriava.gov/localmotion/info/default.aspx?id=77933

I've always found it regrettable how much dead space there is so close the Metro and VRE/Amtrak stations. I realie the hill is hard to build on, but there's still alot of room along

Quote from: mrsman on July 05, 2018, 12:04:57 PM
This is normal.  In MD, US 1 is known as Baltimore Ave (or Blvd) in much of PG County and then in Laurel (and all parts to the north, including Howard County) it is known as Washington Blvd.  So this fits very well.

Years ago, much or all of U.S. 1 from Hyattsville at least as far north as Howard County, and maybe into Baltimore County, was signed as Baltimore-Washington Boulevard. 

That was not the original name, for there was (and is) Old Baltimore Pike in Beltsville on the east side of the CSX (former B&O) Railroad Capital Subdivision (there was an especially crash-prone and lethal grade crossing just north of the present-day junction of U.S. 1 and MD-212/MD-212A (Powder Mill Road) which caused the Maryland State Roads Commission (predecessor agency to SHA) to construct a new U.S. 1 on a new alignment on the west side of the railroad from Beltsville to Laurel. Wonder if SRC considered a bridge over the railroad to eliminate the grade crossing (maybe not, because of the angle at which the highway would have crossed the railroad tracks would have made for a long bridge).

Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 06, 2018, 01:09:26 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2018, 12:33:19 PM
This isn't really road-related, but I figured people who read this thread might like the photo. Our relatives from Fort Myers visited us this week and yesterday we went to Mount Vernon and the George Washington Masonic National Memorial. I had been to the latter once more than 30 years ago but didn't remember much. This is the view of Old Town from the top (you can also see the Wilson Bridge, National Harbor, and the MGM). It's well worth the $15 for the tour.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180706/a916c8ec4c19b4df7717c6401cec4d7c.jpg)

You can actually go inside of the Masonic National Memorial?

I did not know this. I will have to check it out.

They could use better publicity. I think a lot of people think it's closed to the public, like the Mormon Temple, and I'm sure the common misuse of "Masonic Temple"  (its not a temple) probably plays into the misconception.

We found it interesting. Lots of stuff about George Washington and his Masonic activity, which you don't hear about at Mount Vernon. Lots of artifacts from his life, too. Of course the view from the top is the main thing. The elevator is of some interest. Note the shape of the memorial. The elevators (there are two) run up inclined shafts instead of straight up and down. There are only 20 such elevators in the USA.

I think it's worth going if you haven't been there before, especially if you know the area well. If your goal is to view DC, I'd say to go to the Old Post Office Tower (free–enter through the back of the Trump Hotel next to Starbucks from 12 Street) or the Episcopalian National Cathedral on Wisconsin Avenue (take the elevator to the 7th floor observation level). But to view Virginia, especially Alexandria, it's hard to beat the Masonic Memorial. As I said, I hadn't been there in well over 30 years, and none if the people I was with (including my wife) had ever been there.

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 06, 2018, 02:25:16 PM
I've always found it regrettable how much dead space there is so close the Metro and VRE/Amtrak stations. I realie the hill is hard to build on, but there's still alot of room along

Oh, I think all that green space is far better than more high-rises or new-construction townhouses.

Great shot, 1995hoo.

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2018, 06:26:54 PMThe elevators (there are two) run up inclined shafts instead of straight up and down. There are only 20 such elevators in the USA.

I'm pretty sure another one of those elevators is at the Huntington Metro.

The deck of the S. Clark Street bridge in Crystal City is gone. It's gone and it ain't coming back, part of a Crystal City renovation effort by Arlington County. Speculation is Amazon HQ2 will wind up in this neighborhood.

please reedit with permanent, publicly accessible images (ending in .jpg or other format)

^ Since the mod asked...

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/857/41865353970_bcc4a0a338_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/arlingtondes/41865353970/)

Photo from the Arlington County Department of Environmental Services.  More photos of the demolition process are in their Flickr album (https://www.flickr.com/photos/arlingtondes/albums/72157669558351087).

According to a community newsletter, Alexandria is going to impose no-right-on-red on southbound S. 28th street, leading onto King St westbound (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8400656,-77.1056504,3a,75y,241.75h,86.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgSHs9td4XUVfIS00roZnHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), as well Park Center Dr, leading to King St eastbound (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8370299,-77.1027965,3a,75y,55.18h,87.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2kJx83iddvSkmz7UkfNdWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). As you can see from the GSV, both of these intersections had the vague "No right on red when pedestrians are present" rule.

This is part of a larger citywide effort (Vision Zero) to improve road and crosswalk safety. I have a personal connection to the 28th Street intersection, as I was hit in the crosswalk by a right-turn-on-red back in 2015.

Regarding the US-1 discussion further up the thread, I just looked at Google Maps to check traffic info heading to the Caps game and I see they (unlike Apple Maps) have replaced the name Jefferson Davis Highway with Richmond Highway–but they incorrectly show the change as extending into Arlington County and on up Route 110 to Rosslyn (it applies only in Alexandria).

I have no idea whether the signs have been changed on Alexandria's part. We used that road on Dec. 31 coming back from a game, but of course the name change hadn't taken effect and there was no sign of any sign-replacement efforts. I doubt we'll go that way on our way home tonight unless something unusual happens on the highway.

^ A Patch article (https://patch.com/virginia/greateralexandria/s/gl603/route-1-officially-renamed-richmond-highway-alexandria?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=politics+%26+government&utm_campaign=autopost&utm_content=greateralexandria&fbclid=IwAR1fy_0sZ62aXePdEpdlczL9j2ylFQtKggZddffGNJfOcE1_xLF2OnCjuVU) says that signs (as of last Thursday, the 3rd) are now posted.

Some local updates:

1) Arlington got a possibly-dodgy legal opinion from the Virginia Attorney General that the County can ask for, and likely receive, permission from the CTB, to rename US-1 from Jefferson Davis Highway to Richmond Highway. Typically counties don't have the power to do that in VA, and downstate legislators support Jeff Davis, so they were going to be at an impasse. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/arlington-can-rename-jeff-davis-highway-without-going-through-legislators-ag-opinion-says/2019/03/22/c8cff8fc-4cb7-11e9-9663-00ac73f49662_story.html)

2) Alexandria is angling to remove a lane on Seminary Rd and institute a road diet (https://www.alexandriava.gov/tes/info/default.aspx?id=103393) between Kenmore and Quaker.

3) HOT lane project on the northern end of 395 is progressing at a modest pace, still plenty of work to get done on it - my commute still features plenty of "cattle chute" stretches where there are no shoulders.

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on April 25, 2019, 08:23:43 PM
1) Arlington got a possibly-dodgy legal opinion from the Virginia Attorney General that the County can ask for, and likely receive, permission from the CTB, to rename US-1 from Jefferson Davis Highway to Richmond Highway. Typically counties don't have the power to do that in VA, and downstate legislators support Jeff Davis, so they were going to be at an impasse. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/arlington-can-rename-jeff-davis-highway-without-going-through-legislators-ag-opinion-says/2019/03/22/c8cff8fc-4cb7-11e9-9663-00ac73f49662_story.html)

The article notes that one of Arlington's state senators doubted the CTB would approve the request to rename the Jefferson Davis Highway, and an Arlington member of the CTB was non-committal. We'll find out soon enough.

At least the CTB controls the renaming process, under the AG's opinion. That would throw another obstacle to some local efforts to rename Arlington's part of Lee Highway (most of which is US 29), as if the massive address changes that would require (much more so than with the short Jeff Davis segment in Arlington) weren't enough of a showstopper.

UPDATE: The Arlington County board voted yesterday to ask the CTB to rename Jefferson Davis Highway within Arlington County (https://newsroom.arlingtonva.us/release/county-board-to-request-renaming-jefferson-davis-highway-within-arlingtons-borders/).

Looks like the Jeff Davis -> Richmond Highway transition is happening.

https://www.arlnow.com/2019/05/15/state-transportation-officials-approve-jefferson-davis-highway-renaming/ (https://www.arlnow.com/2019/05/15/state-transportation-officials-approve-jefferson-davis-highway-renaming/)

QuoteState Transportation Officials Approve Jefferson Davis Highway Renaming

QuoteArlington will now join Alexandria and Fairfax in renaming Jefferson Davis Highway as "Richmond Highway."

Virginia's Commonwealth Transportation Board unanimously approved changing the name for the highway, which is also known as U.S. Route 1, earlier this morning.

A new sign which bans right-on-red has been placed on 12th Street South, for turning north onto S. Hayes Street, immediately at the Pentagon City station. GSV doesn't have the sign yet, but I wanted to give the view of the intersection: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8629625,-77.0589273,3a,75y,299.58h,88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srzSlCDDb4PSLteiMlFGcEw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This is a very busy intersection, and will only get busier now that a new apartment building has been built. I often drive here, and I would rarely make a right-on-red when it was permitted, because I did not feel safe doing it with all the pedestrians nearby.

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 15, 2019, 06:33:15 PM
A new sign which bans right-on-red has been placed on 12th Street South, for turning north onto S. Hayes Street, immediately at the Pentagon City station. GSV doesn't have the sign yet, but I wanted to give the view of the intersection: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8629625,-77.0589273,3a,75y,299.58h,88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srzSlCDDb4PSLteiMlFGcEw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This is a very busy intersection, and will only get busier now that a new apartment building has been built. I often drive here, and I would rarely make a right-on-red when it was permitted, because I did not feel safe doing it with all the pedestrians nearby.

This is indeed a busy area.  NTOR is justified with so much pedestrian activity.  IMO, at least in the DC area, NTOR should be the norm anywhere within 1/2 mile of most Metro stations.  Nearly all have significant levels of people walking, and walkable development is so strongly encouraged here.  Other safety measures like leading pedestrian intervals would also be helpful in such locales.

Arlington's inventory of roads is due to grow a tiny amount with the pending redevelopment of a large parcel in Rosslyn (the old Key Bridge Marriott). Since Arlington has effectively no rural/undeveloped land, this is basically the only way you see the addition of new roads.

https://www.arlnow.com/2020/02/20/new-streets-coming-with-new-marriott-redevelopment-in-rosslyn/

QuoteNew Streets Coming With New Marriott Redevelopment in Rosslyn

QuoteThe redevelopment of the Key Bridge Marriott in Rosslyn will come with some changes to the local streetscape.

The plan is to redevelop the current site into three separate buildings: a condominium building, a hotel, and an apartment building.

N. Nash and N. Meade Streets are proposed to be extended north through the site to help separate and provide better accessibility to the three buildings.

Took the day off to get my Virginia REAL ID (pretty painless) and it was a nice day so I went for a little walking tour. Most of the photos relate to I-395 (see other thread), but one local road topic.

*Non-MUCTD wayfinding sign in Shirlington
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/voJPGcmptjMy4nkNIayVEOfrL5-JqF0j8zb2WGeiVueg2ocb55n_noLlavMs1fX-g_jJCNNunSII8R2e9iui6kI1MUkEtX9rBs1sbvD4yUtNTy_WHW3bm_TjsFfbFf0Flt2tWolPwW7kIBRI73UAP-_7N2JdWWLEfbVry2eOxT5rAA8ekA_Bl9IAtG6l17SZH7ETykClqBrzEThIuegu8aiQMFP16S9k9I36NHMaxLZkJtFEtJKOgQ5cH6rOwAInDToH4h5dAVcFMuUe4rYCy9z4kzrGfk5YjoavVwEtYF5Bn0ZnalBmMGVpPldZoeOBcQOBV9rM-de0vd0SfAbMb5XORzIXeEmRdCYeFvAqXvG5U85k7bpL4982rfketY48V-uyaPDaFNV30jHggIU_GfBDjHcZ6tyZOQdI89X8ILhULcXBAUOBry9HR-hnHrNRpbOJ5CigyVyT0KJATvVhtvW_Kos9HNAYEX3albpWu946cBJKrwSF96b5epqjrLkE5rMAtpTPGuLbZmdgK_EeYwm40L8PtxTgdfZsXlzZe1hCXtQJdHE_r4UIEfobJfonVdtJUEBTVMR4isgOYhCj8X3DlqkWW5NBD8XSTx8MJaMIxZDp8vq_otFYLq6Kh9IMtnBKlLVO8wnM_wDtYboCMh7O-sCOLOIq8hdxN163TE5N5OkkNLlnjZEDutUAt2e7e801jTBJ4gBIM5MsZx2hLaMVXiS6VO7r_qqWWfu6PqwBrMLW=w469-h625-no)

Image isn't displaying.

Any luck? I've run into issues with this before, where the links die out a brief period of time after being posted.

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on March 03, 2020, 09:24:54 AM
Any luck? I've run into issues with this before, where the links die out a brief period of time after being posted.

It's displaying now. Don't know whether that might be a device-specific issue. I think I was viewing it on my iPad while eating lunch when I posted yesterday.

The ones in the other thread still don't display.

Concurrent with the construction of a new development at the intersection of King Street and Beauregard in Alexandria (Alexandria Gateway), Google Maps is displaying a new interior road, Berkely Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8407772,-77.1081296,19z

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on June 17, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
Concurrent with the construction of a new development at the intersection of King Street and Beauregard in Alexandria (Alexandria Gateway), Google Maps is displaying a new interior road, Berkely Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8407772,-77.1081296,19z

If they knew their Virginia history, they'd find a way to have Berkeley Street intersect Bacon Drive.

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 17, 2020, 02:00:44 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on June 17, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
Concurrent with the construction of a new development at the intersection of King Street and Beauregard in Alexandria (Alexandria Gateway), Google Maps is displaying a new interior road, Berkely Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8407772,-77.1081296,19z

If they knew their Virginia history, they'd find a way to have Berkeley Street intersect Bacon Drive.

Took me a second, but quality reference :-D

Quote from: jmacswimmer on June 17, 2020, 02:13:16 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 17, 2020, 02:00:44 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on June 17, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
Concurrent with the construction of a new development at the intersection of King Street and Beauregard in Alexandria (Alexandria Gateway), Google Maps is displaying a new interior road, Berkely Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8407772,-77.1081296,19z

If they knew their Virginia history, they'd find a way to have Berkeley Street intersect Bacon Drive.

Took me a second, but quality reference :-D

Virginia history was a major topic taught during fourth grade when I was growing up, and I loved the subject, no doubt helped by the fact that my fourth grade teacher was an excellent teacher. I have no idea whether Mrs. Van Vliet is still alive, but she would be very chuffed to see my comment to which you replied (and she would be equally chuffed that I remember how to pronounce Gov. Berkeley's last name–it's not like the liberal university town in California but is rather like a former NBA player sometimes called "Sir Charles" or "Barles Charkley").

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 17, 2020, 08:49:50 PM
Virginia history was a major topic taught during fourth grade when I was growing up, and I loved the subject, no doubt helped by the fact that my fourth grade teacher was an excellent teacher. I have no idea whether Mrs. Van Vliet is still alive, but she would be very chuffed to see my comment to which you replied (and she would be equally chuffed that I remember how to pronounce Gov. Berkeley's last name–it's not like the liberal university town in California but is rather like a former NBA player sometimes called "Sir Charles" or "Barles Charkley")

They are no longer in the Commonwealth, but both clearly were prior to 1863 or 1864 or 1865 - and I have always
heard Berkeley County, West Virginia and the county seat of Morgan County, West Virginia (Berkeley Springs) to the
west pronounced the same way as the liberal town in Alameda County, California.

In other words, not shibboleths like Staunton, Botetourt County (Virginia), Buena Vista, and Buchanan County
(Virginia) - and others.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 18, 2020, 12:17:26 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 17, 2020, 08:49:50 PM
Virginia history was a major topic taught during fourth grade when I was growing up, and I loved the subject, no doubt helped by the fact that my fourth grade teacher was an excellent teacher. I have no idea whether Mrs. Van Vliet is still alive, but she would be very chuffed to see my comment to which you replied (and she would be equally chuffed that I remember how to pronounce Gov. Berkeley's last name–it's not like the liberal university town in California but is rather like a former NBA player sometimes called "Sir Charles" or "Barles Charkley")

They are no longer in the Commonwealth, but both clearly were prior to 1863 or 1864 or 1865 - and I have always
heard Berkeley County, West Virginia and the county seat of Morgan County, West Virginia (Berkeley Springs) to the
west pronounced the same way as the liberal town in Alameda County, California.

In other words, not shibboleths like Staunton, Botetourt County (Virginia), Buena Vista, and Buchanan County
(Virginia) - and others.

Right, and I've always heard those locations pronounced as you describe, but I was referring to Gov. William Berkeley, who was in office from 1660 to 1677. His last name is properly pronounced like "Barkley." I'm certain most people who see his name wouldn't pronounce it that way, though (especially given that the Mantua neighborhood in Fairfax has a street named Barkley Drive). I guess the late governor's name might be a British-ism, similar to the way their soccer commentators pronounce the word "derby" as though it were spelled "darby."

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 18, 2020, 12:44:33 PM
Right, and I've always heard those locations pronounced as you describe, but I was referring to Gov. William Berkeley, who was in office from 1660 to 1677. His last name is properly pronounced like "Barkley." I'm certain most people who see his name wouldn't pronounce it that way, though (especially given that the Mantua neighborhood in Fairfax has a street named Barkley Drive).

His brother (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Berkeley,_1st_Baron_Berkeley_of_Stratton) has a town (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Heights,_New_Jersey) named after him in New Jersey.

Its definitely not pronounced "Barkley".

Quote from: NJRoadfan on June 19, 2020, 08:16:49 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 18, 2020, 12:44:33 PM
Right, and I've always heard those locations pronounced as you describe, but I was referring to Gov. William Berkeley, who was in office from 1660 to 1677. His last name is properly pronounced like "Barkley." I'm certain most people who see his name wouldn't pronounce it that way, though (especially given that the Mantua neighborhood in Fairfax has a street named Barkley Drive).

His brother (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Berkeley,_1st_Baron_Berkeley_of_Stratton) has a town (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Heights,_New_Jersey) named after him in New Jersey.

Its definitely not pronounced "Barkley".

The town may not be, but the governor's name was.

I've never heard John Berkeley's last name pronounced "Barkley" either. Could be a case of bucket vs. boo-ket. They were, after all, British.

This discussion begs for this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUDQQ32bgJk

Quote from: The Nature Boy on June 30, 2020, 09:48:54 PM
This discussion begs for this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUDQQ32bgJk

Close but no cigar for Powhatan -- it's Pow-a-tan, not Pow-hatan.

Quote from: VTGoose on July 01, 2020, 08:50:31 AM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on June 30, 2020, 09:48:54 PM
This discussion begs for this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUDQQ32bgJk

Close but no cigar for Powhatan -- it's Pow-a-tan, not Pow-hatan.

I'm also not convinced that their pronunciation of Fauquier is correct.

Big local news is a long-awaited redevelopment plan for the old Landmark Mall (https://www.alexandriava.gov/news_display.aspx?id=119488)

As it relates to roads:

1) There will be a few local roads added to Alexandria as part of this project. The nature of the surrounding road network and topography (Landmark is on a hill) makes them pretty cut off from the rest of the area. I figure they may wind up being similar to the internal road networks of Mosaic (i.e. Merrifield) or Shirlington.
1a) Incidentally, Landmark used to be an open-air shopping district in its first iteration, before it became an enclosed mall

2) It would appear from the tentative plans (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Bg80fnL-Xuo/X-K3oFSQwHI/AAAAAAABkH0/ybJ5I14ZiEQHEZRi4o4sjyVuUcVU-WveACLcBGAsYHQ/s1208/Landmark%2BInova.JPG) that at least some of the complex of flyover ramps from Van Dorn St onto the Landmark property will go away, although the plans are hard to interpret at detail.

Very hard to tell about the flyover because you can see the ramp from Duke Street is still there and they just rendered the new stuff over that.

My guess is that they try to eliminate as many as possible, or at least repurpose them for bus use only.

There is going to be a new transit center for the project; currently some DASH and Metrobus routes call near the parking garage, but it's a painfully long distance from the main roads and adds an annoying amount of time.

The transit center will be closer to Van Dorn, I think. Relatedly, the city is going to be working on BRT facilities for both Duke Street and Van Dorn Street. Obviously Landmark would be a key lynchpin of such a network.

I suspect you are correct on both issues. The entrance and exit traffic patterns for Landmark Mall have always been weird, going all the way back to the 1970s. That whole property could benefit from a re-think of the strange configuration. The exit near Sears may be the weirdest spot of the bunch.

When I lived in Charlottesville, the K-Mart store on Hydraulic Road was sort of one major hub of the city's bus system. I could see Landmark serving a similar role for the DASH system.

Particularly because of the situation where Metrorail is optimized for eastern Alexandria, but the most dense part of the city, and the highest transit ridership numbers, are in the West End.

Everything I've seen from the city for Landmark, going back over a decade, and included in the city-approved area plan, calls for eliminating the flyovers.  Furthermore, while the area plan retains the Duke/Van Dorn grade separation (topography playing a factor here too), it would replace the ramps between Duke and Van Dorn with quadrant roads with at-grade intersections on Duke.  The quadrant road in the western quadrant of Duke/Van Dorn would continue into the Landmark property as a new street.

The ramp from southbound Van Dorn to eastbound Duke St is not for the faint of heart. It's a sharp declining ramp, so you can't really see the free-flowing traffic already on Duke, and there's no acceleration lane, you have to potentially come to a stop at the yield sign, and then gun it when you see an opening.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8145889,-77.1296299,3a,75y,242.47h,78.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2vPnanDBSkVpIBrQ9rSw1w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 05, 2020, 11:20:50 AM

Quote from: VTGoose on July 01, 2020, 08:50:31 AM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on June 30, 2020, 09:48:54 PM
This discussion begs for this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUDQQ32bgJk

Close but no cigar for Powhatan -- it's Pow-a-tan, not Pow-hatan.

I'm also not convinced that their pronunciation of Fauquier is correct.

Sounded correct to me - fau-keer.

While going for a run the other day, I noticed that named interior roads continue to be built in the Potomac Yard development areas of Alexandria. I didn't catch the names of either. Because Alexandria is effectively fully-developed, the only way that the city add street names anymore is by adding interior roadways to large development projects.

1) One bisects, along an east-west axis, the former superblock bounded by Main Line Blvd, Maskell St, Potomac Ave, and Swann Ave (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8301443,-77.0491311,290m/data=!3m1!1e3).

2) The other is immediately south of the Target parking lot, and north of the National Institute for the Blind building (it's currently an unnamed grey stub on Google Maps): https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8337759,-77.049185,292m/data=!3m1!1e3