The Illinois Red Light Corruption Saga Continues

[Plutonic Panda]

To clarify I don't support the automated enforcement of all school zones only certain exceptions but in general I would prefer automated enforcement be done away with.

School zones I don't mind, but do it during the school year. Don't give people tickets in the middle of July when the school is clearly closed and we can abide by the normal speed limit.

I'm still opposed, because I've seen active school zone limits on days when classes were canceled or never even scheduled to begin with.

That would require logistical planning with every school in the state where they would need to send every day off to the operator so he/she can turn the camera on and off. Sounds too much of a pain for Illinois to deal with.

Either have them on between the first/last day of school or get rid of them at this point. The latter would seem to be the course everyone is aiming towards

Given the corruption behind the cameras at this point, it would be best to get rid of them and permanently ban them as is the case in Indiana, Wisconsin, and Michigan.

This I can agree with. If the corruption is an issue which it apparently is then I would support removing them entirely.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

That's kinda ridiculous.

What is even more ridiculous is the highway robbery police departments rely on citing hardworking people who are going a reasonable speed. Most of the time speed limits are set arbitrarily or lower than they should be. We should have cops patrolling in traffic citing people for reckless and distracted driving which is the main cause of car accidents.

Hi SP Cook! 

[Plutonic Panda]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

That's kinda ridiculous.

What is even more ridiculous is the highway robbery police departments rely on citing hardworking people who are going a reasonable speed. Most of the time speed limits are set arbitrarily or lower than they should be. We should have cops patrolling in traffic citing people for reckless and distracted driving which is the main cause of car accidents.

Hi SP Cook! 

I don't get it.

[hotdogPi]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

That's kinda ridiculous.

What is even more ridiculous is the highway robbery police departments rely on citing hardworking people who are going a reasonable speed. Most of the time speed limits are set arbitrarily or lower than they should be. We should have cops patrolling in traffic citing people for reckless and distracted driving which is the main cause of car accidents.

Hi SP Cook! 

I don't get it.

SP Cook claims that all traffic enforcement is illegitimate and that traffic fines are a "random tax".

[Brandon]

In letter to IDOT, Oak Brook village president says "˜justice demands' removal of red-light cameras near Oakbrook Center

Oak Brook Village President Gopal Lalmalani sent a letter Friday to an Illinois Department of Transportation official, stating that "justice demands"  the state agency revoke the red-light-camera permit for Route 83 and 22nd Street in Oakbrook Terrace.

Lalmalani sent the letter on behalf of Oak Brook to Omer Osman, acting secretary of transportation for IDOT, three days after former state Sen. Martin Sandoval pleaded guilty to bribery and tax charges, stemming from his involvement with a red-light camera operator and admitted in federal court to taking money from the red-light camera company, SafeSpeed, that installed and operated cameras in Oakbrook Terrace.

Also, because the permit for the cameras was issued for improper and illegal reasons, to permit Oakbrook Terrace to continue to collecting revenue from use of the cameras violates all sense of fundamental fairness, Lalmalani wrote.

[SEWIGuy]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

That's kinda ridiculous.

What is even more ridiculous is the highway robbery police departments rely on citing hardworking people who are going a reasonable speed. Most of the time speed limits are set arbitrarily or lower than they should be. We should have cops patrolling in traffic citing people for reckless and distracted driving which is the main cause of car accidents.

That's much harder to actually prove than speeding due to its objective nature.

I drive 20,000 miles a year.  Generally go about 8 over.  Been pulled over for speeding twice in 30 years.  One of which was in a construction zone and I absolutely deserved it.  The other was tossed by a municipal judge.

It's not hard. 

[thspfc]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

To paraphrase: "I don't like being held accountable for my actions and I'm going to blame my problems on law enforcement."

Grow up. If you think that you not following the law is someone else's problem, that's ridiculous.

[Plutonic Panda]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

To paraphrase: "I don't like being held accountable for my actions and I'm going to blame my problems on law enforcement."

Grow up. If you think that you not following the law is someone else's problem, that's ridiculous.

Any complaint I have with road laws means I am a child and don't want to be held accountable. Gotcha!

[Rothman]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

To paraphrase: "I don't like being held accountable for my actions and I'm going to blame my problems on law enforcement."

Grow up. If you think that you not following the law is someone else's problem, that's ridiculous.

Any complaint I have with road laws means I am a child and don't want to be held accountable. Gotcha!

^This.

[kphoger]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

To paraphrase: "I don't like being held accountable for my actions and I'm going to blame my problems on law enforcement."

Grow up. If you think that you not following the law is someone else's problem, that's ridiculous.

When one's actions cause no significant risk, then I agree one shouldn't be punished as a matter of course.  Think about officers that simply wait in hiding, running radar:  a number shows up on the radar gun, but that tells him nothing about whether the driver was actually putting himself or anyone else at risk.  Meanwhile, the resources that go toward paying that officer could be better used elsewhere;  unless someone is speeding over that day's threshold, then the officer is just sitting there doing nothing.

[SEWIGuy]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

To paraphrase: "I don't like being held accountable for my actions and I'm going to blame my problems on law enforcement."

Grow up. If you think that you not following the law is someone else's problem, that's ridiculous.

When one's actions cause no significant risk, then I agree one shouldn't be punished as a matter of course.  Think about officers that simply wait in hiding, running radar:  a number shows up on the radar gun, but that tells him nothing about whether the driver was actually putting himself or anyone else at risk.  Meanwhile, the resources that go toward paying that officer could be better used elsewhere;  unless someone is speeding over that day's threshold, then the officer is just sitting there doing nothing.

The idea that you should allow people to speed as long as its not putting people at significant risk at a particular point in time isn't the point.  The point is that excessive speed is riskier than the speed limit, and could therefore put people at significant risk in the near future.

[hotdogPi]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

To paraphrase: "I don't like being held accountable for my actions and I'm going to blame my problems on law enforcement."

Grow up. If you think that you not following the law is someone else's problem, that's ridiculous.

When one's actions cause no significant risk, then I agree one shouldn't be punished as a matter of course.  Think about officers that simply wait in hiding, running radar:  a number shows up on the radar gun, but that tells him nothing about whether the driver was actually putting himself or anyone else at risk.  Meanwhile, the resources that go toward paying that officer could be better used elsewhere;  unless someone is speeding over that day's threshold, then the officer is just sitting there doing nothing.

The idea that you should allow people to speed as long as its not putting people at significant risk at a particular point in time isn't the point.  The point is that excessive speed is riskier than the speed limit, and could therefore put people at significant risk in the near future.

Going the speed of traffic is usually safer than going the speed limit.

[SEWIGuy]

I am strongly against over enforcement of minor traffic violations like speeding where I think undercover cars should be banned for traffic enforcement nationwide and I would like to see the practice of cops hiding and waiting for speeders scaled back or done away with entirely.

To paraphrase: "I don't like being held accountable for my actions and I'm going to blame my problems on law enforcement."

Grow up. If you think that you not following the law is someone else's problem, that's ridiculous.

When one's actions cause no significant risk, then I agree one shouldn't be punished as a matter of course.  Think about officers that simply wait in hiding, running radar:  a number shows up on the radar gun, but that tells him nothing about whether the driver was actually putting himself or anyone else at risk.  Meanwhile, the resources that go toward paying that officer could be better used elsewhere;  unless someone is speeding over that day's threshold, then the officer is just sitting there doing nothing.

The idea that you should allow people to speed as long as its not putting people at significant risk at a particular point in time isn't the point.  The point is that excessive speed is riskier than the speed limit, and could therefore put people at significant risk in the near future.

Going the speed of traffic is usually safer than going the speed limit.

Right, which is why people who are speeding with the flow of traffic are usually not pulled over. 

[kphoger]

Where traffic is sparse enough that an officer can actually (a) determine which car was speeding and (b) successfully pull out and catch up to the driver without losing sight, I'd say the supposed risk of speeding isn't all that great.  Where traffic is thick enough that speeding really does pose a risk, it's unlikely an officer would be able to successfully nab the guy (short of perhaps motorcycle cops with radios).

[Brandon]

Here's something fun:

Bribes, red light cameras and corruption: A detective's string board breaking down the Martin Sandoval investigation

With the guilty plea of former state Sen. Martin Sandoval, the onetime head of the Senate's Transportation Committee became the first person to be convicted in an ongoing corruption probe that has touched on a who's who of state power players, including a handful of other elected officials; magnates in the construction, asphalt and casino industries; lobbyists; transportation officials; and Commonwealth Edison executives. Prosecutors said the probe was "far from over"  but declined to discuss who else might be in their crosshairs. To make sense of the sprawling case, the Tribune created a detective's string board of key players and connections in the investigation gleaned from court filings and news reports.

[SEWIGuy]

Where traffic is sparse enough that an officer can actually (a) determine which car was speeding and (b) successfully pull out and catch up to the driver without losing sight, I'd say the supposed risk of speeding isn't all that great. 

Except when new traffic is intoduced at intersections, driveways, etc.

[Brandon]

The indictments continue.

Political operative Patrick Doherty indicted in federal red-light camera probe

A Cook County political operative has been indicted on federal charges alleging he conspired to pay bribes to a relative of an Oak Lawn trustee in 2017 to get lucrative red light cameras installed there.

Patrick Doherty, 64, of Palos Heights, was charged in a three-count indictment made public Friday with bribery and conspiracy to commit bribery. An arraignment has not yet been scheduled.

The Daily Southtown has reported on how SafeSpeed has hired as consultants several suburban officials including Doherty, Worth Township Supervisor John O'Sullivan, and former Justice police Chief Robert Gedville. Gedville was fired in 2012 after the newspaper reported on his relationship with the company.

Records obtained by the Tribune show that Oak Lawn Mayor Sandra Bury first signed a deal with SafeSpeed in 2014, calling for a goal of putting 10 cameras at five intersections.

Only three cameras were ever put into operation, however: One at the intersection of 95th Street and Pulaski Road and two more at 111th Street and Cicero Avenue, the records show.

While the Doherty indictment alleges there was a push to add more Oak Lawn cameras in 2017, it doesn't appear any were ever installed, according to the records reviewed by the Daily Southtown.

At the time the bribes allegedly were paid, Oak Lawn was raking in about $680,000 a year in total ticket collections, with about $340,000 annually going to SafeSpeed, an analysis of records provided at the time showed.

[ET21]

Lmao Doherty...... Oak Lawn politics have been laughable since Bury took over and this is just another layer on her cake of shit

[Brandon]

Red-light cameras have led to more crashes at Route 83 and 22nd Street, Oak Brook police chief says

Kruger said Wednesday that his research, which included information from IDOT, Oakbrook Terrace and his department, showed that crashes decreased to 35 in 2012 from 67 in 2011 after IDOT had completed safety improvements for the intersection. That number went as low as 23 in 2015, but increased to 36 in both 2017 and 2018, and to 49 in 2019. The red-light cameras were activated in August 2017.

More specifically, after there were 41 rear-end crashes reported in 2011, that number was down to 14 in 2015 and back up to 41 again in 2019.

"The work done to improve the intersection did what it was intended to do by decreasing the number of crashes and the severity of crashes,"  Kruger said. "Once the red-light cameras were installed, though, the overall number of crashes increased."

Kruger attributed a major cause of the increase in crashes to people "panic stopping"  because of the cameras when making a right turn on red.

"The work that was done at the intersection solved some of the safety problems, but now, the way cameras are set, the fear by some drivers of getting a ticket has made it less safe,"  he said.

[cjk374]

Slightly off topic, but I have a question: when I went to the Sauk Valley meet last week, I saw signs at construction zones saying the speed limit was photo enforced. Is that just a scare tactic or a real threat? Also, where were the cameras for this? I never saw them.

[3467]

Usually a scare tactic.

[hobsini2]

Slightly off topic, but I have a question: when I went to the Sauk Valley meet last week, I saw signs at construction zones saying the speed limit was photo enforced. Is that just a scare tactic or a real threat? Also, where were the cameras for this? I never saw them.

I have only once seen those cameras ever in use. That was back when I-88 was being widened to 8 lanes. The white van, that looked like a stranger trying to get kids to take candy from it and I am not kidding on that description, had the camera mounted in the back of the van with the van door open. The usually packed it near Naperville Rd. Other than that, I have not seen them since.

[ChiMilNet]

Slightly off topic, but I have a question: when I went to the Sauk Valley meet last week, I saw signs at construction zones saying the speed limit was photo enforced. Is that just a scare tactic or a real threat? Also, where were the cameras for this? I never saw them.

I have only once seen those cameras ever in use. That was back when I-88 was being widened to 8 lanes. The white van, that looked like a stranger trying to get kids to take candy from it and I am not kidding on that description, had the camera mounted in the back of the van with the van door open. The usually packed it near Naperville Rd. Other than that, I have not seen them since.

I saw it once downstate in I-55. The thing is that it is so obvious and people are already slowing down so much, it's hard to miss. Most of the time, it's a scare tactic. Plus, anyone using Waze will normally report that, along with any red light cameras.

[Rothman]

Slightly off topic, but I have a question: when I went to the Sauk Valley meet last week, I saw signs at construction zones saying the speed limit was photo enforced. Is that just a scare tactic or a real threat? Also, where were the cameras for this? I never saw them.

Probably real.  Have seen the camera flash in work zones.

[Verlanka]

Slightly off topic, but I have a question: when I went to the Sauk Valley meet last week, I saw signs at construction zones saying the speed limit was photo enforced. Is that just a scare tactic or a real threat? Also, where were the cameras for this? I never saw them.

I have only once seen those cameras ever in use. That was back when I-88 was being widened to 8 lanes. The white van, that looked like a stranger trying to get kids to take candy from it and I am not kidding on that description, had the camera mounted in the back of the van with the van door open. The usually packed it near Naperville Rd. Other than that, I have not seen them since.

So creepy. They shouldn't be allowed to do that.