Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[rte66man]

Was in Duncan earlier this month and had a chance to grab some photos while southbound on the Duncan Bypass:

Southbound at Beech Ave, the first grade separated interchange:




Next grade separated interchange with Bois d'Arc Ave


Beginning of construction as the road turns to the east:


The future northbound overpass:

[Scott5114]

What's the cross road at that interchange being built?

[J N Winkler]

It's not an interchange with a surface road, AIUI, but rather a slip connection to a southward extension of the bypass to tie in with US 81 in the vicinity of the airport.

http://www.kswo.com/story/30263634/odot-to-build-southern-connector-on-duncan-bypass

However, as the title sheet from the construction plans (call 270 in the September 2015 letting) shows, a restricted-access interchange with Seminole Road is being built as part of the slip connection.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2015/plans1509/270_1709_NHPP-269N(020)_2031623/a%20sht001.pdf

[rte66man]

It's not an interchange with a surface road, AIUI, but rather a slip connection to a southward extension of the bypass to tie in with US 81 in the vicinity of the airport.

http://www.kswo.com/story/30263634/odot-to-build-southern-connector-on-duncan-bypass

However, as the title sheet from the construction plans (call 270 in the September 2015 letting) shows, a restricted-access interchange with Seminole Road is being built as part of the slip connection.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2015/plans1509/270_1709_NHPP-269N(020)_2031623/a%20sht001.pdf

They are closing off the existing access to 27th St where the bridge is being built.  They will have a similar interchange at the south end where it meets up with existing US81 about 2 miles south (and one mile southwesat of the airport despite what KSWO says).  AS J N stated, there will be a std diamond interchange at Seminole Rd.

[US 41]

Is the Duncan bypass actually worth using? I drove through Duncan twice in February when I went to Chihuahua and I just drove straight through on US 81. Does the bypass actually save you any / much time?

[J N Winkler]

Yes, the bypass--which I took in October while en route to San Antonio--is well worth using.  There are at least ten stoplights along US 81 through Duncan.  (I ended up going through some of them because the bypass is not explicitly signed as an Oklahoma state highway and has no trailblazer signing at the US 81/SH 7 intersection, where you must turn right if you are southbound on US 81 and seeking to use the bypass.)

[Bobby5280]

The Duncan bypass has a couple of design problems, likely due to budget limitations.

The North end of the bypass dead ends at OK-7 nearly a mile West of the intersection with OK-7 and US-81 (what people around here refer to as "the Lawton-Duncan Y"). It's not obvious to Southbound traffic that a bypass is available unless the drivers spot it before hand on a map. There's no guarantee navigation apps will direct motorists passing thru Duncan onto the bypass.

I wonder if there are any plans to extend the North end of the Duncan bypass farther North near Marlow and gradually merge it into US-81, just like what it being done on the South end of the bypass. The road would probably get a lot more use then.

The other problem with the bypass is the at-grade intersections with Osage Road, Camelback Road, Plato Road and Elk Ave. Fatal accidents have been happening at these intersections. I don't like driving on the bypass at night because the intersections are not lit well at all.

[rte66man]

The Duncan bypass has a couple of design problems, likely due to budget limitations.

All too true.  When the ROADS projects were being finalized. then Rep Jari Askins had enough stroke to get the funds to get the bypass started.  There weren't any grade separations (except for 29th St between Osage and Gatlin Roads) due to having to make the funds stretch.  It was generally considered to be a miracle that the bypass was ever built.  The grade separations at Beech and Bois d'Arc were added later.  I'm not sure what, if any, separations are in future plans.  There aren't any shown on the ODOT 8-year plan.

At least the ROW has been preserved for future full freeway conversion.

[Bobby5280]

I'm pretty amazed that Chickasha is going to get what appears to be a freeway quality bypass, including a new cloverleaf interchange that will be built on the site of the current (and soon to be demolished) toll plaza. Meanwhile here in Lawton (a much larger city than either Duncan or Chickasha combined) there are serious design and service issues with the road network.

The huge industrial park on Lawton's west side is not connected at all by the state or federal highway network. All that heavy traffic just goes pounding down city and county maintained streets. SW 82nd Street from South of the Goodyear plant down to OK-36 is completely beat to hell by all the truck traffic. SW Lee Blvd on Lawton's South side has problems. Goodyear Blvd dead ends at Old Cache Road, half a mile South of Quanah Parker Trailway (US-62). Maybe ODOT will offer to do something if Goodyear suddenly decides to relocate its huge tire plant down to Mexico.


Rogers Lane is basically a fake Interstate spur with some dangerous deficiencies in road design that are still present. Considering Fort Sill's importance to the US Army and how infrastructure has been built up at other big military installations it's kind of strange to see how sub-standard I-44 is running through Fort Sill (very narrow, hardly any shoulders at all, etc.) and that Rogers Lane was built the way it was in the late 80's. It's really just a glorified 4 lane street with some big green signs posted alongside it. Other major Army posts, such as Fort Hood, Fort Bliss, Fort Benning, Fort Bragg and Fort Riley all have freeway quality roads entering and/or bordering the installation. Some Marine Corp bases have the same thing happening. On the island of O'ahu in Hawaii the Interstate highways do almost as much to serve the military as they do serving the population of Honolulu. I-H3 goes right up to the door step of MCAS Kaneohe Bay. A freeway upgrade of Rogers Lane with one or two frontage roads would be easy to build. There is plenty of room for it. There are no buildings standing in the way on the North side of the road, just a few small billboards. Even at the intersection of Rogers Lane and I-44 there is lots of space for a combination T-interchange with I-44 and street exit for Rogers Lane continuing East.

As it stands, other projects that are on the books to get built, such as a modification of the Gore Blvd exit with I-44 to add a pedestrian crossing to one of the existing bridges, have yet to start. I guess it's going to take another pedestrian or two getting splattered while trying to jaywalk across I-44 to get the ball rolling on that. Lawton has had 3 fatal accidents involving pedestrians in the last few months. At this rate Lawton could finish the year with more pedestrian deaths than homicides (the city has had only 3 murders this year, which kind of gets in the way of that phony murder capital reputation). The city is pretty much on its own for funding any new sidewalks and bike paths. Thanks to a lot of ill-informed people many new residents in the area move to outlying places like Elgin rather than living in Lawton city limits and supporting what seems to be a dwindling tax base.

[rte66man]

Rogers Lane is basically a fake Interstate spur with some dangerous deficiencies in road design that are still present. Considering Fort Sill's importance to the US Army and how infrastructure has been built up at other big military installations it's kind of strange to see how sub-standard I-44 is running through Fort Sill (very narrow, hardly any shoulders at all, etc.) and that Rogers Lane was built the way it was in the late 80's. It's really just a glorified 4 lane street with some big green signs posted alongside it. Other major Army posts, such as Fort Hood, Fort Bliss, Fort Benning, Fort Bragg and Fort Riley all have freeway quality roads entering and/or bordering the installation. Some Marine Corp bases have the same thing happening. On the island of O'ahu in Hawaii the Interstate highways do almost as much to serve the military as they do serving the population of Honolulu. I-H3 goes right up to the door step of MCAS Kaneohe Bay. A freeway upgrade of Rogers Lane with one or two frontage roads would be easy to build. There is plenty of room for it. There are no buildings standing in the way on the North side of the road, just a few small billboards. Even at the intersection of Rogers Lane and I-44 there is lots of space for a combination T-interchange with I-44 and street exit for Rogers Lane continuing East.

Not arguing the need but I would guess a price well north of $200 million to build true multi-directional interchanges at I44, Fort Sill Blvd, Sheridan, 36th et al.

[Bobby5280]

The interchanges at Fort Sill Blvd. and Sheridan Road could be used almost as-is with some modification to direct freeway main lanes under and over the bridges respectively. The worst problems with those interchanges (the at-grade left turns across main lanes of traffic) were removed a few years ago. The intersections at NW 38th, NW 52nd, NW 67th and NW 82nd wouldn't need anything more elaborate than just frontage road style diamond exits. A freeway to freeway interchange at I-44 would not be cheap to build, but there is plenty of wide open space for such a thing at that corner.

Despite all the traffic on Rogers Lane, particularly in the morning and evening rush, I figure nothing will be done to improve that street pretending to be a highway until enough multiple fatality accidents take place to generate some attention. Rogers Lane already has some nasty head on collisions happening due to the minimal median on the road and T-bone collisions from non-signaled at-grade turns. At most the wrecks are generating single fatalities at a time. Not enough to get news attention elsewhere outside this area.

Gore Blvd and I-44 is another major traffic problem in Lawton. I think that interchnage needs to be replaced with a SPUI. The City of Lawton is doing all sorts of experiments on signal light timing, but can't seem to find anything to work between the 3 traffic lights in a row on Gore Blvd. through there. SPUI's aren't cheap though (over $20 million to build). Norman will have 2 in a row on I-35 soon.

Once Duncan and Chickasha have their freeway quality bypasses built-out and such and Lawton is still stuck in its present it will show just how little political clout Lawton has and how little people elsewhere in Oklahoma think of that part of the state. Of course, part of the problem is the lunk-heads living in this area willfully spreading an exaggerated, negative image of Lawton without ever getting their facts straight. It makes it that much easier for the state to throw its infrastructure anywhere but in Lawton.

[Scott5114]

This is not a toll road.

[Bobby5280]

Yeah, the Duncan bypass has no tolls. As far as I can tell the US-81 bypass for Chickasha won't have any tolls on it either, except for the interchange with I-44.

[Bobby5280]

I'm not meaning to hijack this thread regarding Rogers Lane. But yet another fatal head on collision took place late yesterday afternoon on Rogers Lane near the 3400 block (about 1/3 mile East of the 38th Street intersection).
Accident location: https://goo.gl/BXn7q0
News story: http://www.kswo.com/story/34056852/driver-killed-in-major-crash-along-rogers-lane
Update: http://www.kswo.com/story/34064895/driver-killed-in-6-car-accident-on-rogers-ln-identified

Apparently a young man was driving Westbound fast and aggressively. He was weaving around cars when he lost control, jumped the dinky street curb median and plowed into oncoming traffic. Several cars were involved in the pile-up. One driver was killed, but it wasn't the one who was driving aggressively. Typical. The accident happened around 5:00pm. A mile long portion of Rogers Lane was shut down in both directions until midnight.

I guess it will take quite a few more accidents like this to alert the "deciders" in OKC and Tulsa that Lawton does indeed exist. There's very little in ODOT's long term plans regarding Lawton. But Duncan and Chickasha can certainly get a bunch of upgrades on the US-81 corridor in the meantime.

[Scott5114]

I think this might be a situation worth contacting your state rep over. I'm planning on contacting mine over SH-9, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

[jturpen]

There was once a Turnpike planned from US 81 which they would change the Y in Duncan to an overpass and it would be a fourlane road to I-35 under Governor David Walters and it would get leg of a four lane kind of like the Cimarron did up by Stillwater.  Well they didn't find it feasible or necessary.  Yet they have toyed with the idea of making SH 7 four lane from Duncan to Davis too which has been through lot of arguments if it needs to be done.  Then same could be of US 70 east of Waurika to four lane to SH 76.  Well as we know Waurika has not really grown in these economic times as SH 79 going to Wichita Falls, Texas could use some upgrades too.

The bypass goes which was planned way back in the 70's and came to reality.  They need to be sure to make the rest of the overpasses from Elk, Plato, Camelback, Osage and the on and off ramps as well plus leave room for service roads for the limited access.  Same goes for the US 81 that will connect the south connector was supposed to be a four lane divided highway but what they put in was a two lane with four lane right of way capabilities as the talk of a four lane of US 81 all the way to the Red river and Texas would then agree to four lane it the rest of the way to Bowie, Texas.  Right now as we speak US 82 from Henrietta to Nocona is in the works of a fourlane which will begin in a year or so. 

Duncan is gonna grow west and now possibly south since the City of Duncan just recently bought the Halliburton Financial services building south of town.   Adding the truck stop on the south of town where the bypass will conjoin with this road and go north and overpass with on and off ramps and Seminole is still under construction as yes this road was to be limited access but also one day they will fourlane this road.  Now that that Territory Golf course is west on Beech and they really need to do some work on Beech by making it a better street as well the streets of Elk, Plato, Camelback and Osage west of the bypass as future growth will one come out there.  You will see if you go out west there are already churches being built out in those areas so in order for Duncan to expand and not continue to clutter US 81 through town which is a big mess between Beech and Plato road already. 

Another note I don't have a location yet but Fairfield Inn is supposedly has a location in mind for Duncan which are by the same Apollo foundation group that built the new Holiday Inn Express as well as the Applebee's.  So in Duncan as we try to encourage growth in the Duncan area with commercial such as retail, hotels, fast food, restaurants and maybe some other industry.  Now with Chickasha bypass in mind as you know US 81 needs to be fourlaned from Chickasha to Union City where is now fourlane from there to i-40.  So the future of this corridor is still up in the air but in Duncan alone they need to look into the road through town that it already is congestive as is which could use a 6 lane access.  Well more later.

[rte66man]

Yet they have toyed with the idea of making SH 7 four lane from Duncan to Davis too which has been through lot of arguments if it needs to be done.

When OK7 was moved to the new roadway from Bois d'Arc in the late 60's, there was always a plan to 4 lane it and make it grade separated.  The crossroad at Eastland (where the road ended at the time) was built with ramps.  When the road was extended to Velma, the ramps were removed.  The plan to 4 lane 7 to Davis gained steam yet again during the first Gulf Way and the oil business picked up again.  When the bust hit in 92-93, the traffic counts dropped to the point where it wasn't cost effective.  Based on personal experience, it still isn't cost effective, although not having to follow those big haulers would be nice.

The bypass goes which was planned way back in the 70's and came to reality.  They need to be sure to make the rest of the overpasses from Elk, Plato, Camelback, Osage and the on and off ramps as well plus leave room for service roads for the limited access.  Same goes for the US 81 that will connect the south connector was supposed to be a four lane divided highway but what they put in was a two lane with four lane right of way capabilities as the talk of a four lane of US 81 all the way to the Red river and Texas would then agree to four lane it the rest of the way to Bowie, Texas.  Right now as we speak US 82 from Henrietta to Nocona is in the works of a fourlane which will begin in a year or so. 

You can see that the RoW has been preserved for the entire bypass to be 4 lanes with grade separations at the section line crossings.  Traffic counts don't justify widening at this time; however, they do need to get the interchange at Elk put in ASAP.  There have been some terrible wrecks there. I see no need for service (frontage) roads. The south bypass extension is the same.  No need for widening until the traffic counts warrant it.  RoW is preserved.

Duncan is gonna grow west and now possibly south since the City of Duncan just recently bought the Halliburton Financial services building south of town.   Adding the truck stop on the south of town where the bypass will conjoin with this road and go north and overpass with on and off ramps and Seminole is still under construction as yes this road was to be limited access but also one day they will fourlane this road.  Now that that Territory Golf course is west on Beech and they really need to do some work on Beech by making it a better street as well the streets of Elk, Plato, Camelback and Osage west of the bypass as future growth will one come out there.  You will see if you go out west there are already churches being built out in those areas so in order for Duncan to expand and not continue to clutter US 81 through town which is a big mess between Beech and Plato road already. 

You can tell the Duncan - Comanche part of US81 has room for another carriageway.  It even has a sort-of interchange at Oliver Road where 81 goes over the road and a creek.  Keep in mind that Duncan's population has only grown about 3000 since 1960.  As a native Duncanite, I've always wondered where the people came from that were buying all the new houses.

[Bobby5280]

I can see US-81 getting some 4-lane upgrades South of Duncan to Comanche and from Waurika up to Addington (where the ROW for a 4-lane upgrade is already preserved). Given Oklahoma's state budget situation (which seems to only get worse year after year) any upgrades are going to be difficult to fund without a lot of federal help.

The idea of six-laning US-81 inside of Duncan is a very tall order. I don't think there's nearly enough ROW to do such a thing. The existing median is only big enough to hold single left turn lanes. Businesses and utilities are built too close to the road to provide any wiggle room for adding more lanes. A 6-lane ugprade would eat into a lot of developed property. I think that kind of expense would be better directed to the bypass, like adding grade separated interchanges at Elk Ave, Plato Rd, Camelback Rd, Osage Rd and a combo interchange at Gatlin & Boren Roads. ODOT also needs to work on the Northern half of the bypass to tie it directly into US-81 just South of Marlow. That might pull enough through traffic off US-81 inside Duncan to make a 6-lane upgrade less necessary.

As for other roads in this region, I can see upgrading parts of US-70 to 4-lane expressway standards, but not all of it. I don't think traffic counts are high enough. Some properties would have to be cleared to 4-lane US-70 on the South side of Waurika; I think it's worth it to 4-lane the road between US-81 and the OK-79 split for Wichita Falls. OK-79 could at least use some shoulders like its TX-79 counterpart across the Red River. There is plenty of room to 4-lane US-70 from Randlett over to the OK-36 turn-off to the casinos.

To continue my griping about Rogers Lane in Lawton: last night my girlfriend were leaving the AMC Patriot 13 theater after watching "Black Panther" in IMAX Digital 3D. A car was broke down in the Westbound left lane of Rogers Lane. A pickup truck was parked in front of it; its driver was trying to provide a battery jump start. There are no shoulders on this highway. The area near the theater where they were stopped is not lit for squat. I just hope the car's emergency flashers were enough to get other motorists' attention. God forbid anyone trying to drive and send out a tweet in that situation.

[mrose]

My paternal grandparents lived in Duncan the last 15-20 years of their lives, so I spent a lot of time there during that period, particularly holidays. For the longest time I never knew that bypass even existed, and to this day I don't think I've ever been on it. To be fair, they lived on the northeast side of town so there weren't many opportunities to use it, even though we occasionally would drive down to Texas.

It's hard for me to think of any bypass anywhere that seems like more of an afterthought than than one. They still haven't even given it a number.

[Scott5114]

It is, or at one time was, listed in the control section map book as 0, for what it's worth.

[jturpen]

Well Duncan is gonna grow west because it can't grow past the Lawton-Duncan-Marlow Y.  The school district of Marlow starts right after Plato Road yet it's inside the city limits of Duncan.  Thus if Duncan really needs to fix their commercial where it alleviates traffic off of US 81 especially between Elder and Plato Road.  Because before the Walmart was built where it is now they tried to build it other places but rich people like Goodner would buy the land so they couldn't build there.  Duncan wants to expand but also needs to plan for the future because rich people may not like it or not it will grow bigger and the only way to grow outside of west to SH 65 is south to Refinery road. 

Now that refinery mess is slowly being cleaned up by Conoco Phillips on the south in the town to what is called Meridian but doesn't have a post office.  Churches have been building south of done such as the Biker Church as well as several churches out west as the Territory is a rich man's golf course which according Mr. Braught wants to try and get the PGA there.  Well if indeed he does want that Duncan would need to supply in demand other Hotels such with higher quality than just the Hampton Inn and Holiday Inn Express.  Talks of a Fairfield Inn has a location in mind but with other things and the downtown area prospering again.  I would suggest Duncan build within it's downtown for east Main after 5th street needs lots of work.  Then even west past 10th street could use some updates.  Thus Elk, Plato, Camelback, and Osage need upgraded streets where the future to the west will be.  Even the road the Simmons Center is on with the Middle school needs up grades north of Elk. 

Duncan needs a Golden Corral again and some restaurants up these standards which would facilitate to the elderly.  As some Duncan can't grow well it can if they stop letting rich people because so obtuse into that what benefit they may gain for their satisfaction.  Look at Durant sure they have the major highway US 69 and 75 to Dallas which Gene Stipe and others had four lane nearly through the whole state which has been rumored of the Interstate 45 extension from Dallas on north to Tulsa.  Lake Texhoma and along the forest area where trees are being hawed to make wood at the nearby sawmill.  Then they just added US 70 freeway which is four lane all the way to almost to the county line and plans to be widened all the way to Idabel to the Arkansas state line to wear the Interstate 49 would be which has yet to be finished connected from Texarkana to Forth Smith, Arkansas along US 71.  Then they four lane to Madill as they want US 70 to bypass their town which is put on hold but will one day be four lane from Bryan county line the on the way to I-35.  Even with US 82 which as I stated before being fourlane from Henrietta, Texas to Nocona to continue along with widening it all the way to Texarkana as well.

Even Chickasha now wants a piece of the bypass action on however they approve of using US 81 going north to connect to the west side over by the hospital and high school which they want a four lane all the way to Union City but it would bypass towns such as Minco so it will get interesting.

[rte66man]

Well Duncan is gonna grow west because it can't grow past the Lawton-Duncan-Marlow Y.  The school district of Marlow starts right after Plato Road yet it's inside the city limits of Duncan.

Huh??

The southern border for Marlow Public Schools has always been Gatlin Road, not Plato Road, a difference of 3 miles.

[rte66man]

Because before the Walmart was built where it is now they tried to build it other places but rich people like Goodner would buy the land so they couldn't build there.

Build where?  Walmart got a great deal to build where they did.  I knew the family that owned that land. Also, what makes you think the Goodner family has that kind of power?  I was born in Duncan and have lived there on and off since the 60's.  My Dad worked for Halliburton for most of his adult life and had the type of connections that meant he knew what was happening during the time Walmart moved from Plato and 81 to their current location.

Duncan wants to expand but also needs to plan for the future because rich people may not like it or not it will grow bigger and the only way to grow outside of west to SH 65 is south to Refinery road. 

Once Elk was opened up between Country Club and 5th Street, the NE side of town also became a good candidate for expansion.  When Cotton Hills was built in the 60's, it flopped because it was difficult to get to directly from the west side of the tracks. Elder was the only real option.

[jturpen]

Do you remember used to have a Kroger's as Goodner's along with Judge Sherrill which was Tommy's lawyer helped push them out of town which we also had a K-Bobs next door.  Also do you remember Jones's who was partners with Tommy at one time and then became the Market Basket and then Mark Jones sold it to move to Edmond and work for another chain.  Duncan also once had a Split-Rail restaurant as Tommy Goodner, Fallis Beall, Larry Battison, along with others did their work to stop the Walmart Supercenter even if Bobby Richardson was still alive we wouldn't have had CVS Pharmacy where it is now.  Even Tom McCasland, Earl P Halliburton, and other people have stopped business for coming to Duncan for years.  I am not calling out conspiracy here just giving facts as Leo King pushed the envelope when they finally decided to the Walmart Supercenter where presently resides which was Whitten Insurance that helped push the Walmart there.  I was at the city meeting for that as Tommy lost his Buy for Less in Lawton as Fleming foods moved to Dallas, Texas and would never go north of the red river again from their OKC location and well now if you didn't know Tommy now deceased along with Judge George Sherrill and Bobby Richardson. 

Enough on that the point I am making is Duncan has a future and there are those who oppose to see Duncan grow and expand unless they benefit.  We can't have a Road House mentality like that if we want see the SW part of Oklahoma grow.  We need to look to all things now that Duncan says they want to grow while using their airport as a place to draw in other industry for the future because rather Halliburton stays or leaves which they have been contemplating for years.  Elk Avenue across the field which behind my house was planned for years but they made my parents mad in the process since she now lives in Norman, Oklahoma.  The new Nursing home they are building Elks Crossing for Jack Gregston who I grew up with.  Duncan needs to stop dwelling in their past and start looking to bring a bright future.

[rte66man]

Bumping....

I finally had a chance to travel back to Duncan and got to drive the recently completed southern extension. All photos taken March 18.


Southbound bypass just past Bois d'ARc


Eastbound


This is a strange sign


Northbound US81 just north of Terry Road


Northbound US81 showing the revised access to Cherokee Road


While it is correct to show taking the extension to get to West OK7, someone not familiar with the area would be confused as there are no reassurance signs for 10 miles.