South Carolina

[wriddle082]

It's very bizarre I-95 doesn't go through Charleston and Myrtle Beach. Is that because of the difficulty of building in wetlands?

I would say it's because of general anti-South bias as well as the fact that Charleston and especially MB are a lot less important than the larger cities that I-95 needs to serve such as Washington DC and the Florida coast, so I-95 simply goes relatively straight from Washington/Richmond toward Savannah/Florida.

But Charleston and MB are clearly more important cities than Florence

I-95 mostly follows US 301 from Petersburg, VA south to Santee, SC (once it's across Lake Marion), then works it's way to eventually follow US 17 towards the general direction of Savannah, and to get back closer to the coast.

Way back before I-95 even existed, US 301 was a very important route heading south.  Probably more or equally as important as US 1.

[D-Dey65]

I know anti-South bias exists, but I don't think it has anything to do with the decision on the route of I-95. Besides that, Charleston has I-26.

wriddle082 mentioned the fact that it follows US 301, and later US 17, but in between the two it also follows US 15.

Also, why do so many people keep dumping on Florence all the time?

[wriddle082]

I know anti-South bias exists, but I don't think it has anything to do with the decision on the route of I-95. Besides that, Charleston has I-26.

wriddle082 mentioned the fact that it follows US 301, and later US 17, but in between the two it also follows US 15.

Also, why do so many people keep dumping on Florence all the time?

Follows US 301, US 15, Alt US 17, and finally regular  US 17.  It follows the middle two for such a relatively short distance that it wasn't really worth mentioning.

Florence is easy to dump on.  First off, it's exactly halfway between NYC and Miami, so many motorists who have travelled between the two over the years has probably stopped for the night in Florence.  And I would imagine that being used to accommodations in NYC and Miami, they were extremely underwhelmed by Florence.  Especially if they couldn't find a kosher deli, NY-style pizza, or bagel shop.  Waffle House and Little Caesar's just won't cut it for many of those people.

But for being a stopover town, Florence is actually not too bad these days.  If you look at the Business Spur I-20 exit instead of the US 52 exit, the accommodations are pretty good.  Most of the mid-priced Marriott brands are represented, as well as a Hilton Garden Inn and Aloft.  Of course there's also a Buc-ee's at the SC 327 exit, and in general the economy isn't too terribly bad with distribution centers and a Honda non-automotive manufacturing plant in the area.

[D-Dey65]

^
Ahh, Timmonsville. I've been trying to get pictures of that Honda factory for years, but I can never get a good shot.

I don't stay overnight in Florence. It may be halfway between Miami and NYC, but it's not halfway between Spring Hill and NYC (I stop in the Rocky Mount area anyhow). Nevertheless, I have stopped there to take pictures of various sites. Either that or I'll go to one of the shopping centers along Business Spur I-20 to pick up something I either should've packed up before, or simply ran out of while I was driving up.

[Mapmikey]

South Carolina wanted I-95 to follow US 15, via Society Hill, Bennettsville, and McColl. What got I-95 to run the way it actually does is that North Carolina already set I-95 to US 301, the Feds said it had to serve Savannah GA, and crossing Lake Marion had limiting options.

Source is the book The South Carolina Highway Department 1917-1987 by John Hammond Moore

Definitely no southern bias...the SC Highway Commissioner was AASHTO president in 1957.

[Revive 755]

South Carolina wanted I-95 to follow US 15, via Society Hill, Bennettsville, and McColl. What got I-95 to run the way it actually does is that North Carolina already set I-95 to US 301, the Feds said it had to serve Savannah GA, and crossing Lake Marion had limiting options.

Source is the book The South Carolina Highway Department 1917-1987 by John Hammond Moore

I'm not seeing how Lake Marion would have ruled out a hybrid option generally along US 15 from Summerton to Sumter, then following US 76 to Florence.  Or a jog over to the US 15 corridor just south of the North Carolina border.

[Mapmikey]

The book doesn't go into details on which towns were to be served by the interstates. So I don't know if a more direct passing of Sumter was ever on the table.

I'm a little surprised I-20 wasn't routed by Sumter given the first freeway in SC was the Sumter bypass in the late 50s.

Another area that felt hosed was Union as I-26 does a dogleg to avoid it.

[Mapmikey]

I Think US 15 Should Be Extended along US 17 Alt to US 21 in Yemassee

This may have been the case briefly around 1951.  The evidence that this actually happened is laid out here - http://www.vahighways.com/scannex/route-log/us015.htm

The AASHO database shows this extension to have actually occurred for a short time before AASHO forced its truncation back to Walterboro as a condition for accepting US 17 ALT.

But was the US 15 extension posted?

Yes it was - https://catalog.archives.gov/id/234115905

[Tom958]

I wish I'd seen the I-95 routing discussion while it was current. I'm sorry for my tardiness. I'm riffing on many comments that I won't bother with quoting.

I think the routing of I-95 through SC is really good. Essentially what it amounts to is a near-beeline from Jacksonville, FL to US 301 at the SC-NC line, leading to a major reduction in travel distance compared to US 301 or any other legacy highway. The rationale behind this would've been comparable to that of I-5 through California's Central Valley: a bold and highly useful new line on the national map.

NC's investment in the US 301 corridor made it the obvious choice for I-95 in that state. Jogging it eastward from Lumberton or so to Myrtle Beach would've greatly increased the corridor's overall length. Even now, there's still no superior highway connecting Myrtle Beach to I-95 running northward. It would've been far more difficult to justify in the fifties. Plus, it would've required I-20 to be a lot longer to reach I-95, maybe too long to even bother with.

As far as Charleston goes, I think a case could've been made for running I-95 closer to it, via Summerville and Florence, east of Lake Moultrie. That would've had little effect on the overall length and avoided having to build a fairly major bridge at Santee. However, doing this would've lengthened the Savannah-Columbia axis, likely eventually requiring a better highway in that corridor as well. In other words, the planners of the day appear to have been thinking strategically. With I-77 not yet in the picture, the case would've been less compelling; I wouldn't be surprised, though, if I-77 starting at Columbia was a gleam in the eye of the planners of the day.

So, the chosen routing of I-95 provides adequate service for the Savannah-Fayetteville NC, Charleston-Fayetteville, and Savannah-Columbia axes while greatly shortening the overall FL-NC route. I think it's excellent.

[bigdave]

But Charleston and MB are clearly more important cities than Florence

Back in the 60s, MB was nothing and Florence was (and still is) a significant crossroads.

MB population was 8,536 in 1970, now close to 40K plus the whole area is growing like a week.

In the 60s, MB was a downscale beach destination. That's where my family went to the beach.

David

[Rothman]

But Charleston and MB are clearly more important cities than Florence

Back in the 60s, MB was nothing and Florence was (and still is) a significant crossroads.

MB population was 8,536 in 1970, now close to 40K plus the whole area is growing like a week.

In the 60s, MB was a downscale beach destination. That's where my family went to the beach.

David

Eh, MB was still the place for hillbillies to head on vacation.  My great uncle owned a motel there.

[bigdave]

Eh, MB was still the place for hillbillies to head on vacation.  My great uncle owned a motel there.

My family is from upper East Tennessee, so we definitely were among the hillbillies. 

Great place for a cheap family vacation back in the day, but I expect nothing is still standing from those days.

David

[wriddle082]

Eh, MB was still the place for hillbillies to head on vacation.  My great uncle owned a motel there.

My family is from upper East Tennessee, so we definitely were among the hillbillies. 

Great place for a cheap family vacation back in the day, but I expect nothing is still standing from those days.

David

Indeed, I spent most of last week in MB for a national dance competition that both of my daughters were participating in.  Most of the out-of-state license plates that I saw were OH, WV, KY, and TN.  Most definitely hillbilly country.

[PColumbus73]

But Charleston and MB are clearly more important cities than Florence

Back in the 60s, MB was nothing and Florence was (and still is) a significant crossroads.

MB population was 8,536 in 1970, now close to 40K plus the whole area is growing like a week.

In the 60s, MB was a downscale beach destination. That's where my family went to the beach.

David

Might call this a local legend, but according to my dad, when they were routing I-95 through Florence, one of the more prominent land owners in the area lobbied for, and succeeded, in getting I-95 routed through land that they owned.

[Ted$8roadFan]

But Charleston and MB are clearly more important cities than Florence

Back in the 60s, MB was nothing and Florence was (and still is) a significant crossroads.

MB population was 8,536 in 1970, now close to 40K plus the whole area is growing like a week.

In the 60s, MB was a downscale beach destination. That's where my family went to the beach.

David

Might call this a local legend, but according to my dad, when they were routing I-95 through Florence, one of the more prominent land owners in the area lobbied for, and succeeded, in getting I-95 routed through land that they owned.

Wouldn't be surprised at all if true. 

[Mapmikey]

While searching for something else, I ran across a Jan 1963 detailed study of running I-95 via Summerville and a corridor a bit east of US 52 to meet I-20 northeast of Florence:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c100825574&view=1up&seq=1

[PColumbus73]

https://www.wmbfnews.com/2022/06/20/new-interchange-expected-break-ground-2023/

Apologies for the late news, but it appears SC 31 in Myrtle Beach will be getting a new interchange at Augusta Plantation Drive / Revolutionary War Way, according to WMBF, construction is expected to start in the fall.

[froggie]

^ What 31 needs isn't another interchange....it needs an extension.

[The Ghostbuster]

I think it is going to be quite a while before SC 31 is extended northwards, and everyone knows that SC 707 is as far south as 31 will go.

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

South Carolina wanted I-95 to follow US 15, via Society Hill, Bennettsville, and McColl. What got I-95 to run the way it actually does is that North Carolina already set I-95 to US 301, the Feds said it had to serve Savannah GA, and crossing Lake Marion had limiting options.

Source is the book The South Carolina Highway Department 1917-1987 by John Hammond Moore

Definitely no southern bias...the SC Highway Commissioner was AASHTO president in 1957.

I had never heard of this route for I-95 in SC before. Did SC ever propose an I-95 route that followed US-321 or US-601 further south? I could see them pitching for either a US-321/US-601 routing via Hampton & Bamberg en route to Orangeburg & Sumter, or a US-21 route via Branchville en route to Orangeburg & Sumter

[Ted$8roadFan]

What role does North Carolina play.....I've heard that one of the reasons there aren't more highways in South Carolina, esp. Myrtle Beach is because North Carolina isn't interested in creating or expanding highways that would drive traffic that they believe would more benefit South Carolina.

[The Nature Boy]

But Charleston and MB are clearly more important cities than Florence

Back in the 60s, MB was nothing and Florence was (and still is) a significant crossroads.

MB population was 8,536 in 1970, now close to 40K plus the whole area is growing like a week.

In the 60s, MB was a downscale beach destination. That's where my family went to the beach.

David

Might call this a local legend, but according to my dad, when they were routing I-95 through Florence, one of the more prominent land owners in the area lobbied for, and succeeded, in getting I-95 routed through land that they owned.

Not a local but I heard specifically that it was South of the Border that requested this and they had enough politically sway at the time to make it happen.

[sprjus4]

What role does North Carolina play.....I've heard that one of the reasons there aren't more highways in South Carolina, esp. Myrtle Beach is because North Carolina isn't interested in creating or expanding highways that would drive traffic that they believe would more benefit South Carolina.

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/carolina-bays-parkway/Pages/default.aspx

Also, how does North Carolina limit South Carolina in building I-73 between I-95 and Myrtle Beach... fully in South Carolina? Let alone, if they did ever connect to Rockingham, it would go into... North Carolina. Which NCDOT has built over 100 miles of freeway connecting towards the border and ultimately Myrtle Beach, from Greensboro.

[wdcrft63]

What role does North Carolina play.....I've heard that one of the reasons there aren't more highways in South Carolina, esp. Myrtle Beach is because North Carolina isn't interested in creating or expanding highways that would drive traffic that they believe would more benefit South Carolina.

Let's think about that idea.
(1) The best way to get to MB is to stay in NC as long as possible: I-40 to I-140 to NC 17. It would work even better if SC hadn't forgotten that the CBP should connect to 17 when it was built.
(2) NC is expanding I-95 in the Lumberton area, helping people reach SC,
(3) NC built 100 miles of I-73 pointed directly at SC. It could help people reach MB and also Columbia and Charleston. But SC can't think of any reason to make that connection and folks in the Forum seem to think that connection is a lower priority than building I-73 from I-95 to MB.

[wdcrft63]

What role does North Carolina play.....I've heard that one of the reasons there aren't more highways in South Carolina, esp. Myrtle Beach is because North Carolina isn't interested in creating or expanding highways that would drive traffic that they believe would more benefit South Carolina.

Let's think about that idea.
(1) The best way to get to MB is to stay in NC as long as possible: I-40 to I-140 to NC 17. It would work even better if SC hadn't forgotten that the CBP should connect to 17 when it was built.
(2) NC is expanding I-95 in the Lumberton area, helping people reach SC,
(3) NC built 100 miles of I-73 pointed directly at SC. It could help people reach MB and also Columbia and Charleston. But SC can't think of any reason to make that connection and folks in the Forum seem to think that connection is a lower priority than building I-73 from I-95 to MB.

US 17 not NC 17