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Texas business routes

Started by wxfree, October 18, 2013, 04:02:55 AM

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wxfree

Years ago, business routes in Texas were officially designated as loops, a sub-category of state highways.  They were signed in the familiar manner.  In the 1990s the business route became an official designation, another sub-category of state highways.  I've always seen business routes signed like the parent route, but with the BUSINESS banner, with one exception.  Near the west end of US 67 Business in Cleburne there was a sign that looked like a loop or spur sign, but said "BUSINESS 67" in the black-bordered white square.   I never got photograph, but I think the sign's been replaced with the usual signage.  I always thought it was a one-off.  I just now found a publication supposedly called "TxDOT Official Sign Detail" linked to on Wikipedia, and it includes that exact sign, M1-6TB.  That sign does not appear in the TMUTCD, but it is in this document.  It's on page 3-5.2 http://www.dot.state.tx.us/trf/shsd/3_guide.pdf  Anyone know what that is?  Is it an old sign that was cancelled?  Ever seen one?
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?


NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

wxfree

Quote from: NE2 on October 18, 2013, 04:58:51 AM
Isn't that the sign for business state highways? http://www.dot.state.tx.us/tpp/search/query.htm?Route=BS&search=

I've never seen it anywhere other than on a business US highway.  I'm sure I've been on state highway business routes, but I'll need to do some Street View research to see if it's standard state highway business route signing.  I don't recall seeing it anywhere else.  It's also strange that it isn't in the MUTCD.  It may have been in an old version that isn't online.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

NE2

Quote from: wxfree on October 18, 2013, 05:13:42 AM
It's also strange that it isn't in the MUTCD.
Why? State highway shield variants aren't in the MUTCD.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

bassoon1986

Yeah the Business State routes are signed that way in TX.
See: Biz 121 in Lewisville    http://goo.gl/maps/y7UF3

I don't remember seeing "Business" on the banner rather than in the square

Brian556

Oddly, in Tarrant County (TXDOT DIST 2) Business Routes are signed with banners rather than the word BUSINESS on the sign itself. See Business SH 114 in Grapevine and Business US 287 Ft Worth-Saginaw as examples.

Note: Business US 287 in Ft Worth was just recently signed as business, despite being a Business route since about 1970.

wxfree

Thanks for that information.  I didn't realize there were variant signs not in the MUTCD.  The document I linked to contains other such signs.  The MUTCD does mention a "Standard Highway Sign Designs for Texas" book, which I'd already downloaded, and M1-6TB is there.  I guess I'd either never seen one or didn't notice.

I'm accustomed to the BUSINESS banner, M4-3, but thinking back I remember seeing a Business US sign with the word on the sign instead of a banner.  Street View confirms those exist on Business US 287 in Waxahachie.  Maybe it's done differently by the Dallas and Fort Worth districts.

"Standard Highway Sign Designs for Texas" was updated in 2012, and one of the changes is to M1-6TB.  "Modified M1-6TB, removed "BUSINESS"  from the sign and added "TEXAS" ; added M4-3 BUSINESS plaque above sign; updated sign detail."  This change makes the BS sign into a regular state highway sign with a small letter at the bottom and a BUSINESS plaque above it, the way it's done on BS 114.  They also took the "BUSINESS" off the BF shield, M1-6FB, and put M4-3 above it, without putting "FARM ROAD" back, leaving a sign with the shape of Texas and no words.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

Brian556

#7
Quote"Standard Highway Sign Designs for Texas" was updated in 2012, and one of the changes is to M1-6TB.  "Modified M1-6TB, removed "BUSINESS"  from the sign and added "TEXAS" ; added M4-3 BUSINESS plaque above sign; updated sign detail."  This change makes the BS sign into a regular state highway sign with a small letter at the bottom and a BUSINESS plaque above it, the way it's done on BS 114.  They also took the "BUSINESS" off the BF shield, M1-6FB, and put M4-3 above it, without putting "FARM ROAD" back, leaving a sign with the shape of Texas and no words.

Interesting. didn't know they'd done that.

I see that they also changed the BUSINESS US standard. The old standard with word in shield is kind of a problem because the word is so small, and the numbers are the same size. It's hard to differentiate between a standard and business US shield from any distance.

Another interesting thing to note is that the TXDOT sign crew field book showed that you were supposed to use the BUSINESS banner in conjunction with the BUSINESS Route Marker. This made no sense, and luckily the Denton County office opted to note apply it in the field. Here is a pic of this setup:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/us_71/2531492814/in/set-72157604955521374

The High Plains Traveler

Quote from: Brian556 on October 18, 2013, 03:21:48 PM
Quote"Standard Highway Sign Designs for Texas" was updated in 2012, and one of the changes is to M1-6TB.  "Modified M1-6TB, removed "BUSINESS"  from the sign and added "TEXAS" ; added M4-3 BUSINESS plaque above sign; updated sign detail."  This change makes the BS sign into a regular state highway sign with a small letter at the bottom and a BUSINESS plaque above it, the way it's done on BS 114.  They also took the "BUSINESS" off the BF shield, M1-6FB, and put M4-3 above it, without putting "FARM ROAD" back, leaving a sign with the shape of Texas and no words.

Interesting. didn't know they'd done that.

I see that they also changed the BUSINESS US standard. The old standard with word in shield is kind of a problem because the word is so small, and the numbers are the same size. It's hard to differentiate between a standard and business US shield from any distance.

Another interesting thing to note is that the TXDOT sign crew field book showed that you were supposed to use the BUSINESS banner in conjunction with the BUSINESS Route Marker. This made no sense, and luckily the Denton County office opted to note apply it in the field. Here is a pic of this setup:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/us_71/2531492814/in/set-72157604955521374
BUSINESS over a sign that reads BUSINESS. From the Department of Redundancy Department, I guess. All I've ever seen in Texas is the BUSINESS inside the shield version, no supplemental plaque. Not MUTCD, but why not use a green U.S. marker for Business loops?
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

Alps

Quote from: NE2 on October 18, 2013, 07:26:20 AM
Quote from: wxfree on October 18, 2013, 05:13:42 AM
It's also strange that it isn't in the MUTCD.
Why? State highway shield variants aren't in the MUTCD.
I think that was a typo for TMUTCD.

wxfree

Now that the old TxDOT minute orders are online, I found the one that establishes the business route designation.  It answers one additional question I had.  All business routes are in a system that is separate from but equal to the loop and spur system, which is a sub-category of state highways.  Interstate and US Highway business routes are downgraded to state highways, but farm to market business routes are upgraded to the state highways.

The original guidelines establish that the business route signs should have the word "business," should have the number and shield shape of the parent system, and should have the letter suffix.  It also says that the sign "shall not" contain the parent highway's system identification.  I take that to refer to the words on the signs.  This would explain why the green Interstate signs say "business" rather than "Interstate" and why the BF signs don't say "Farm Road" and the BS signs said "business" rather than "Texas."  I assume this is to make the distinction obvious, at least to those who pay attention.  As described before, later policy changes put "Texas" back on the BS signs.  This bit of history explains why the BS signs were, until the policy change, different and, when properly installed, didn't have the state name.

http://publiccm.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003686159.pdf
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

NE2

Quote from: wxfree on March 10, 2016, 11:26:55 PM
Now that the old TxDOT minute orders are online
Oh shit, thanks! The easiest way to find them seems to be to search for the number here: http://publiccm.txdot.gov/minord/

Here's the 1939 renumbering: http://publiccm.txdot.gov/minord/MinuteOrderDocLib/003676266.pdf
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".



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