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Phoenix Area Highways

Started by swbrotha100, February 22, 2015, 07:18:10 PM

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Duke87

Quote from: howlincoyote2k1 on October 01, 2020, 01:59:12 AM
I can live with I-11 meeting I-10 at the current 303 junction in Goodyear, considering Grand Avenue has been built up beyond that point and extending I-11 further in would be impossible. But connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Buckeye or Tonopah defeats the whole purpose of the interstate and the two cities remain without a complete, direct connection.

The problem with the 10/303 junction as an endpoint is that getting there means passing through White Tank Mountain. Which besides being unfriendly terrain for freeway construction is also a non-starter due to Section 4(f).

So you're not getting it to hit I-10 anywhere east of AZ 85 unless you route it all the way down 60.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.


splashflash

Quote from: Duke87 on October 18, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
Quote from: howlincoyote2k1 on October 01, 2020, 01:59:12 AM
I can live with I-11 meeting I-10 at the current 303 junction in Goodyear, considering Grand Avenue has been built up beyond that point and extending I-11 further in would be impossible. But connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Buckeye or Tonopah defeats the whole purpose of the interstate and the two cities remain without a complete, direct connection.

The problem with the 10/303 junction as an endpoint is that getting there means passing through White Tank Mountain. Which besides being unfriendly terrain for freeway construction is also a non-starter due to Section 4(f).

So you're not getting it to hit I-10 anywhere east of AZ 85 unless you route it all the way down 60.

It's disappointing the design options did not hook into the Sun Valley Parkway, which skirts White Tank Mountain to the west.  A northwest to southeast connection between US 93 and the 90 degree bend of the Parkway could save on miles of new road and end a few miles west of AZ 85.



JoePCool14

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on October 18, 2020, 02:25:08 PM
So the new DDI at I-17 and Happy Valley Rd is  open. Relatively minor work to be done still. Took a pic while I was at the light. Interesting that the "Happy Valley" sign is a city of Phoenix installation, since all the signals, lighting, etc. are all ADOT standard.

SM-G975U

City of Phoenix is still using Clearview?

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

ztonyg

#528
I don't understand the rhyme or reason for whether or not traffic signals are maintained by ADOT or a local jurisdiction.

In the Phoenix area it appears to be the following (for freeway to surface street interchanges):

ADOT seems responsible for the signals alongside I-10, I-17 and Loop 202 within the city of Phoenix, alongside I-10 in Tolleson, the signals alongside Loop 202 at Dobson, Alma School, McKellips, and Country Club in East Mesa, the signals alongside Loop 101 on the Salt River Indian Community, and the signals alongside US 60 in Apache Junction, all signals alongside Loop 101 in Glendale except for Cardinals Way and Maryland Ave, all signals alongside Loop 101 in Peoria, the signals alongside Loop 303 at Bethany Home Rd, Glendale Ave, and Northern Ave, and the signal at AZ 143 and University Dr. in Phoenix.

It appears that the city of Surprise may be responsible for the signals alongside Loop 303 in its jurisdiction but those could be ADOT signals.

The city of Tempe seems responsible for the signals alongside I-10, US 60, and Loop 101 within its jurisdiction as well as the signal at I-10 and AZ 143.

The city of Phoenix seems responsible for the signals alongside AZ 51 and Loop 101 within its jurisdiction as well as the signals at AZ 143 and McDowell Rd and Washington St.

The city of Mesa seems responsible for the signals alongside US 60 and most of the signals alongside Loop 202 within its jurisdiction (except for those mentioned alongside loop 202 above).

The cities of Goodyear, Avondale, and Buckeye seem responsible for the signals alongside I-10 in their jurisdictions. Goodyear is also responsible for the signals alongside Loop 303 in its jurisdiction.

The city of Peoria seems responsible for the signals alongside Loop 303 in its jurisdiction.

The city of Scottsdale seems responsible for the signals alongside Loop 101 in its jurisdiction.

The city of Glendale seems responsible for the signals alongside Loop 101 at Cardinals Way and Maryland Ave.

roadfro

Quote from: ztonyg on October 19, 2020, 12:17:24 PM
I don't understand the rhyme or reason for whether or not traffic signals are maintained by ADOT or a local jurisdiction.

Is it possible that ADOT doesn't actually maintain signals?

That's my understanding of Nevada DOT's philosophy. NDOT will install traffic signals along their state highways and at freeway interchanges, especially when part of a general (re-)construction project or sometimes just when warranted–but the ongoing operation and maintenance of said signals typically falls to city or county jurisdiction. NDOT will construct the signals to the local standard–although there is not much variation on signal standards and designs across the state (save for some downtown areas) since NDOT's design standards are implemented widely by the local agencies, so this mainly amounts to the local differences in the street name signage.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

ztonyg

Quote from: roadfro on October 20, 2020, 04:16:22 PM
Quote from: ztonyg on October 19, 2020, 12:17:24 PM
I don't understand the rhyme or reason for whether or not traffic signals are maintained by ADOT or a local jurisdiction.

Is it possible that ADOT doesn't actually maintain signals?

That's my understanding of Nevada DOT's philosophy. NDOT will install traffic signals along their state highways and at freeway interchanges, especially when part of a general (re-)construction project or sometimes just when warranted–but the ongoing operation and maintenance of said signals typically falls to city or county jurisdiction. NDOT will construct the signals to the local standard–although there is not much variation on signal standards and designs across the state (save for some downtown areas) since NDOT's design standards are implemented widely by the local agencies, so this mainly amounts to the local differences in the street name signage.

Actually in Arizona ADOT does seem to maintain its signals. It's just that there doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rule (other than what I've posted above) as to which signals are maintained by ADOT.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/asked-answered/2014/09/17/asked-answered-traffic-complaints/15740669/

Pink Jazz

#531
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

Also, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

US 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.

ztonyg

Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 21, 2020, 09:23:22 PM
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

Also, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

US 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.

That's why I think if it's not Loop 101 or AZ 51 or AZ 143 and it's in Phoenix then it's an ADOT signal. Ahwatukee is Phoenix.

KeithE4Phx

Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 21, 2020, 09:23:22 PM
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

From what I remember of I-10 between Chandler and Ahwatukee (I lived there between 1997 and 2014), the lights at Ray Rd. and Chandler Blvd. were maintained and signed by Chandler, and those at Warner & Elliot Rds. were handled by Tempe.

QuoteAlso, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

That's in Pinal County.  They may have different rules there.

QuoteUS 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.

Being a surface street, I would think that the Grand Ave. traffic signals would be under the jurisdiction of Phoenix, Glendale, Peoria, Maricopa County (for the Sun City area and points NW of the 303), El Mirage, or Surprise, depending on the location.
"Oh, so you hate your job? Well, why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called "EVERYBODY!" They meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey

howlincoyote2k1

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 22, 2020, 01:31:01 AM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 21, 2020, 09:23:22 PM
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

From what I remember of I-10 between Chandler and Ahwatukee (I lived there between 1997 and 2014), the lights at Ray Rd. and Chandler Blvd. were maintained and signed by Chandler, and those at Warner & Elliot Rds. were handled by Tempe.

QuoteAlso, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

That's in Pinal County.  They may have different rules there.

QuoteUS 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.

Being a surface street, I would think that the Grand Ave. traffic signals would be under the jurisdiction of Phoenix, Glendale, Peoria, Maricopa County (for the Sun City area and points NW of the 303), El Mirage, or Surprise, depending on the location.

It used to be that all of the traffic signals along US 60 were maintained by ADOT. However, when the road was improved in the 00s, the traffic signal management was handed to the cities of Tempe and Mesa. Since AJ was never improved, the signals never changed.

Pink Jazz

Quote from: howlincoyote2k1 on October 23, 2020, 05:34:39 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 22, 2020, 01:31:01 AM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 21, 2020, 09:23:22 PM
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

From what I remember of I-10 between Chandler and Ahwatukee (I lived there between 1997 and 2014), the lights at Ray Rd. and Chandler Blvd. were maintained and signed by Chandler, and those at Warner & Elliot Rds. were handled by Tempe.

QuoteAlso, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

That's in Pinal County.  They may have different rules there.

QuoteUS 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.

Being a surface street, I would think that the Grand Ave. traffic signals would be under the jurisdiction of Phoenix, Glendale, Peoria, Maricopa County (for the Sun City area and points NW of the 303), El Mirage, or Surprise, depending on the location.




It used to be that all of the traffic signals along US 60 were maintained by ADOT. However, when the road was improved in the 00s, the traffic signal management was handed to the cities of Tempe and Mesa. Since AJ was never improved, the signals never changed.



I think in Tempe the 60 and Mill signal is a former ADOT signal.  The rest were replaced by Tempe-standard signals and mast arms.

Roadwarriors79

The US 60/Mill Ave signals in Tempe (single overhead on a mast arm) are similar in style to the way Tempe generally mounts its older ADOT-style signals. In some of the other valley cities, the municipal traffic signals use typical ADOT design, so there isn't much noticeable difference.

I-17 is using ADOT signals with city of Phoenix street signs at Happy Valley Rd and Pinnacle Peak Rd. If that trend doesn't make it way to other freeway/surface street intersections along I-10, I-17, or Loop 202, then I'm guessing it was just a contractor choice here related to the interchange projects at Happy Valley and Pinnacle Peak.

ztonyg

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on October 29, 2020, 06:54:31 PM
The US 60/Mill Ave signals in Tempe (single overhead on a mast arm) are similar in style to the way Tempe generally mounts its older ADOT-style signals. In some of the other valley cities, the municipal traffic signals use typical ADOT design, so there isn't much noticeable difference.

I-17 is using ADOT signals with city of Phoenix street signs at Happy Valley Rd and Pinnacle Peak Rd. If that trend doesn't make it way to other freeway/surface street intersections along I-10, I-17, or Loop 202, then I'm guessing it was just a contractor choice here related to the interchange projects at Happy Valley and Pinnacle Peak.

The reason I think that the Pinnacle Peak Rd and Happy Valley Rd signals are ADOT maintained and not City of Phoenix is because the City of Phoenix has recently installed new signals along Loop 101 that all use the typical new Phoenix design (which is nothing like the ADOT signals) and the poles on the new Loop 101 signals are green as opposed to the silver which is typical of ADOT maintained signals.

As far as ADOT signals it looks like the signal on N/B Mill at the offramps/onramps from/to W/B 60 as well as the signal on S/B Mill at the offramps/onramps from/to E/B 60 are ADOT standard (mounted in the way ADOT typically mounts its signals). The other signals are in the "secondary" Tempe standard which can be found along Mill Ave. in downtown Tempe as well as random other spots in the city.


Pink Jazz

#538
Looks like logo signs are soon coming back to the Loop 101 Price Freeway south of US 60.  GCSLS just put out a competitive bid for the Loop 101 and Chandler interchange.  They were removed as part of the widening project, since a new study is required for their new locations after the widening.

Pink Jazz

Looks like logo signs are back on the Loop 101 Price Freeway south of US 60, except for the Baseline and Chandler Blvd exits (Guadalupe and Warner never had any). As stated, Chandler Blvd should get them soon (GCSLS is doing a competitive bid for that exit).

Sonic99

Not sure if this would be the right place, but the I-17 widening project from Black Canyon City to Sunset Point has seemingly been pushed back at least a year from the previously announced date. Will now start sometime in 2022 and take 3-4 years. I've heard some say that BLM hasn't approved the new ROW yet, so they advanced the Broadway Curve project ahead to take the place in the budget. As someone who drives I-17 up north out of Phoenix pretty regularly, the delay is immensely frustrating. That stretch, especially in summer, is AWFUL. Plus the 3-4 years to build it is just crazy.
If you used to draw freeways on your homework and got reprimanded by your Senior English teacher for doing so, you might be a road geek!

Plutonic Panda

If Arizona REALLY wanted to solve the issue they would make I-17 3 lanes each way and a new East to west tunnel connecting Sedona to I-17 directly. One can dream right. The situation on I-17 is bad no doubt and it is annoying the push back and timeline. I am happy to hear about the advanced Broadway Curve schedule.

sparker

Quote from: Duke87 on October 18, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
Quote from: howlincoyote2k1 on October 01, 2020, 01:59:12 AM
I can live with I-11 meeting I-10 at the current 303 junction in Goodyear, considering Grand Avenue has been built up beyond that point and extending I-11 further in would be impossible. But connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Buckeye or Tonopah defeats the whole purpose of the interstate and the two cities remain without a complete, direct connection.

The problem with the 10/303 junction as an endpoint is that getting there means passing through White Tank Mountain. Which besides being unfriendly terrain for freeway construction is also a non-starter due to Section 4(f).

So you're not getting it to hit I-10 anywhere east of AZ 85 unless you route it all the way down 60.

Sorry for bumping this subject within the thread four months later -- but it seems like the comments regarding a possible I-11 alignment are at cross-purposes here.  First of all, there's no chance in hell that I-11 will plow through the White Tanks, partially due to the provisions of 4(f), but the general impracticality of that; the longstanding Hassayampa option, largely dismissed by those favoring a route more directly serving central PHX, skirts the range to the west.  And it's true (as well as obvious) that that corridor iteration does allow a SE tack once south of the I-10 junction -- which was pretty much the whole point, as that "beeline" through Maricopa and ending up near Casa Grande was the concoction of regional developers, who simply want a reasonably-well-traveled SW bypass of Phoenix along which to place more housing as well as commercial and industrial facilities.  Outside of the reservations, developers tend to be the drivers of land-use policy in the region; fortunately, some land like the White Tanks has been deemed worthy of preservation in some semblance of its original state.  But if not down the Hassayampa, south of Wickenburg there are two alternate choices -- go east to I-17 more or less along AZ 74, or simply head down the US 60/Grand corridor to the 303 loop, where that route could be subsumed south to I-10.  But the issue there is that the land along US 60 is being continually and rapidly developed without any regard for an expanded facility, much less one using new terrain.  Whether that ship has already sailed regarding this option would be a product of ADOT's willingness to carve out a pathway northwest of Loop 303.  But of course, the Hassayampa option could simply "dovetail" into AZ 85 and use that route, appropriately upgraded & extended, down to I-8 and terminate there.  The developers with options on land near Maricopa would have a shitfit, of course, but such a route would save a bundle of money and, although not as direct as a new-terrain diagonal, serve as an effective Phoenix bypass for I-10 through traffic that has the misfortune to hit the city during peak commute times! 

But it remains to be seen if the local land boom continues unabated and developers maintain the upper hand regarding policy decisions.  IMO, either the US 60/Loop 303 or the Hassayampa/AZ 85 options provide the most bang for the buck -- but in any case the White Tanks remain between the options, not directly in their pathway. 

Roadwarriors79

This video came out for plans of the future I-10 Broadway Curve corridor, which is currently under construction.

https://vimeo.com/541797247/a0f721de70

Also construction staging plans by ADOT are summarized here:

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/adot-issues-%E2%80%98notice-proceed%E2%80%99-construction-interstate-10-broadway-curve-improvement-project

Zonie

Heh.  They just issued a Notice to Proceed on Monday.

Guess I-10 weekend traffic dumpster fires have just been my imagination up to this point. 

kernals12

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 12, 2021, 01:09:47 PM
If Arizona REALLY wanted to solve the issue they would make I-17 3 lanes each way and a new East to west tunnel connecting Sedona to I-17 directly. One can dream right. The situation on I-17 is bad no doubt and it is annoying the push back and timeline. I am happy to hear about the advanced Broadway Curve schedule.

As someone who had to put up with Sedona's horrible, horrible traffic, I would recommend rebuilding the Red Rock Canyon Bridge to allow traffic between West Sedona and Oak Creek to bypass downtown and a pedestrian tunnel in front of Tlaquepaque.

kernals12

The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

Max Rockatansky

#547
Quote from: kernals12 on October 31, 2021, 10:04:09 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.

kernals12

#548
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2021, 10:13:17 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on October 31, 2021, 10:04:09 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out. And from what I can tell, ADOT is planning very well for a metro area of 7-8 million.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kernals12 on October 31, 2021, 10:28:14 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2021, 10:13:17 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on October 31, 2021, 10:04:09 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn't uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I'll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn't that spread out with the job market.  There isn't much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother's house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.



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