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Cities which don't need beltways but have them.

Started by Roadgeekteen, March 10, 2021, 04:42:48 PM

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OCGuy81



1995hoo

Quote from: Evan_Th on March 11, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 10, 2021, 04:52:56 PM
Depending on what you construe as a beltway, I nominate Durham, North Carolina, because the Downtown Loop is both unnecessary and a nuisance.

Hey, I grew up in Durham!  I agree it's unnecessary, but what makes you say it's a nuisance? 

....

The combination of it being one-way combined with North Carolina's idiotic prohibition on left turns on red always made it a pain to navigate that area.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

skluth

Quote from: webny99 on March 11, 2021, 08:31:51 AM
Quote from: ibthebigd on March 11, 2021, 08:22:44 AM
Fort Wayne Indiana I-469

It may not be needed for Fort Wayne itself, but the southern 2/3 are needed for Indy-Toledo and Indy-Detroit traffic.

The north part of I-469 is very necessary. I used US 30 to shunpike the tollways between Chicago and Pennsylvania back in 1987 on a short vacation after I graduated college. US 30 was a very pleasant drive back then except for the hour it took to drive around Fort Wayne on the old US 30 (now IN 930) around the city. It was obvious that heavy traffic on this road was the norm. I wish I-469 had been built then.

Roadgeekteen

God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kphoger

Comparing a coastal city to an inland city, though?

Also, how many does the largest city in the US need? is a better question.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

SkyPesos

For NYC, there's I-287 on the west and north. I-278 is a partial beltway for Manhattan, but goes through downtown Brooklyn. So is that 1 or 2 beltways? For Chicago, I just say there's 2 (partial) beltways: I-294 and I-355.

CoreySamson

Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 04:49:04 PM
Comparing a coastal city to an inland city, though?

Also, how many does the largest city in the US need? is a better question.
Houston's not necessarily an inland city. They're having trouble figuring out a route for the Grand Parkway thru SE Houston because Trinity Bay is in the way. As for my own submissions to the thread, I nominate Crockett and Carthage, both cities in east Texas.
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

My Route Log
My Clinches

Now on mobrule and Travel Mapping!

hotdogPi

Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

OCGuy81

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
I mean it's the 4th largest city in America

LA is the 2nd largest and does it have any? There's bypasses, though they're often just as congested as the route they were built to relieve....like the 405

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
I mean it's the 4th largest city in America

LA is the 2nd largest and does it have any? There's bypasses, though they're often just as congested as the route they were built to relieve....like the 405
LA's geography prevents a beltway.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

hotdogPi

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 10:10:18 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
I mean it's the 4th largest city in America

LA is the 2nd largest and does it have any? There's bypasses, though they're often just as congested as the route they were built to relieve....like the 405
LA's geography prevents a beltway.

So does Boston, but it has two complete ones and most of a third (just missing the segment from Leominster MA to Manchester NH).
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Flint1979

I don't know of any city that has a beltway that doesn't need one. Almost all of them are needed.

webny99

Quote from: 1 on March 12, 2021, 06:39:19 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 10:10:18 PM
LA's geography prevents a beltway.

So does Boston, but it has two complete ones and most of a third (just missing the segment from Leominster MA to Manchester NH).

Also the gap at the end of MA 25 near Bourne, where you have to do a quick jog on the at-grade section of US 6.

With that said, LA is a different situation because it's the mountains, not the ocean, that prevents a beltway.

Avalanchez71

Huntingdon, TN
Martin, TN
Union City, TN

Martin didn't need the additional bypass at all to the east. 

webny99

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 12, 2021, 08:33:21 AM
Martin, TN
...

Martin didn't need the additional bypass at all to the east.

That's a really interesting one. TN 43/Skyhawk Pkwy is already a good bypass option for US 45E, and the TN 22 part of the bypass makes sense; I'd say the only segment that's really not needed is on the south side between US 45E and TN 22.

Avalanchez71

Quote from: webny99 on March 12, 2021, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 12, 2021, 08:33:21 AM
Martin, TN
...

Martin didn't need the additional bypass at all to the east.

That's a really interesting one. TN 43/Skyhawk Pkwy is already a good bypass option for US 45E, and the TN 22 part of the bypass makes sense; I'd say the only segment that's really not needed is on the south side between US 45E and TN 22.

It was all a pork project and it was done when Governor Ned Ray McWhorter was in office.  He wanted to have 4 lanes of highway from around that area to Nashville just for him.

thspfc

Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Not currently, but from what I understand, the outermost of the three (or four, if you count the downtown loop), was built with significant future growth in mind.

OCGuy81

Quote from: thspfc on March 12, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Not currently, but from what I understand, the outermost of the three (or four, if you count the downtown loop), was built with significant future growth in mind.

Since sections of the Grand Parkway have opened, has there been significant growth around it??

How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.

SkyPesos

Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 12, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.
I haven't been on Beltway 8 yet, but from a look on TX's AADT map, an AADT between 90k-110k in that section is far from 'useless'. I'm not sure if TX's AADT map counts the frontage lanes or not though, but that section had 8 through lanes.

CoreySamson

Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 12, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Since sections of the Grand Parkway have opened, has there been significant growth around it??

How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.
1. Yes, on certain areas on the SW and NW sections.

2. There aren't as many businesses on the feeder road for Beltway 8 as on other Houston freeways, so it can feel away from the city, especially near Brookside Village, but the traffic on it takes away any idea of it being abandoned. But some sections have had huge growth in the past 10 years:
Beltway 8 @ US 90 Alt circa 2011
Same interchange in 2019
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

My Route Log
My Clinches

Now on mobrule and Travel Mapping!

mgk920

Quote from: skluth on March 10, 2021, 05:41:21 PM
I grew up in Green Bay. It doesn't NEED a beltway, though I-41, I-43, and WI 172 constitute one. I appreciate it every time I visit my family who still live there and it clears out the traffic nicely after every Packers game.

I recommend this parking strategy to anyone heading towards Milwaukee after a game at Lambeau. Park free just north of the stadium east of Oneida St; you can usually find an empty street spot on the first block of Raleigh or Liberty. After the game, return via the following: North on Oneida to end, east one block on Dousman, north on Gray St to the end, east one short block on Velp, north on Atkinson to SB I-43 ramp. Oneida is mostly used by locals and they all turn at Mason, so the rest of the "shortcut" is practically devoid of traffic until the I-43/WI 172 merge. It beats the crap of dealing with all the idiots cramming the local streets to get to WI 172 or I-41. I've never used it for a night game, but it works great for the early afternoon starts.

**SHHHHHHH!!!**

:-o

Anyways, IMHO, the best thing that can be done to really speed up the clearing out of traffic after a Packer game is the six-lane upgrade to I-41 (Scheuring Rd to WI 15), planned for construction in the 2025-2029 time frame.

As for the question of the OP, Burlington, WI.

Mike

Hwy 61 Revisited

Highstown, New Jersey has a freeway bypass for some reason.
And you may ask yourself, where does that highway go to?
--David Byrne

achilles765

Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 12, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 12, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Not currently, but from what I understand, the outermost of the three (or four, if you count the downtown loop), was built with significant future growth in mind.

Since sections of the Grand Parkway have opened, has there been significant growth around it??

How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.

Like coreysamson said, the sw and nw portions have. There's a lot of development on grand parkway between 249 and 45, and I'm seeing a lot of stuff pop up between hardy toll road and IH 69.
This weekend when I had to drive to Louisiana it looked like there was a good amount of development popping up on the east side where they are building the stretch from IH 69 to IH 10

As for the beltway there is a lot of traffic on pretty much every stretch and like coreysamson mentioned, a lot of spots aren't necessarily packed with businesses but are near major streets or lead into neighborhoods where a lot of people live. The only stretches that are not very developed are the south belt between US 90 Alternate and 45; and the northeast quadrant from 59 to 90
I love freeways and roads in any state but Texas will always be first in my heart

OCGuy81

Quote from: achilles765 on June 08, 2021, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 12, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 12, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Not currently, but from what I understand, the outermost of the three (or four, if you count the downtown loop), was built with significant future growth in mind.

Since sections of the Grand Parkway have opened, has there been significant growth around it??

How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.

Like coreysamson said, the sw and nw portions have. There's a lot of development on grand parkway between 249 and 45, and I'm seeing a lot of stuff pop up between hardy toll road and IH 69.
This weekend when I had to drive to Louisiana it looked like there was a good amount of development popping up on the east side where they are building the stretch from IH 69 to IH 10

As for the beltway there is a lot of traffic on pretty much every stretch and like coreysamson mentioned, a lot of spots aren't necessarily packed with businesses but are near major streets or lead into neighborhoods where a lot of people live. The only stretches that are not very developed are the south belt between US 90 Alternate and 45; and the northeast quadrant from 59 to 90

I need to get back down there.  I haven't driven Beltway 8 since they made the NE section limited access, and I'd like to check out the progress of the Grand Parkway.

Oh! And eat some Texas BBQ! :-)



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