The BEST Transportation Agency in the U.S. (2021 Edition)

[TheHighwayMan3561]

MN probably belongs in the OK, but here's the rundown:

Good
-Signage
-Lighting
-Urban freeway networks
-Investment in repairing rough pavement
-Decreasing prevalence of 55 MPH zones across the state

Bad
-Lack of control cities in areas and often poor choices for the ones that are used
-Cloverleaves
-Ghosted/aggressively decommissioned US routes

[US 89]

Horizontal signal heads.

Why should this count against Texas? I happen to like the look of horizontal signal heads quite a bit. TX is far from the only state with them, too - they make up 99.5% of traffic lights in NM and are quite common in other states such as NE, WI, FL...

[sprjus4]

^ Agreed, I don't mind them as much either. Sure, it's different and not the norm, but it's not terrible. I'll also add while I dislike Clearview font generally and prefer the standard FHWA design, I don't mind it as much in Texas given their signage is almost universally consistent. It just has almost a sense of uniqueness in a way for Texas.

[SkyPesos]

I don't get what makes horizontal signals worse. Lots of other countries I've been to (Japan, Taiwan, some cities in China, Singapore) uses horizontal signals, and I'm indifferent about it.

[JoePCool14]

Horizontal signals look decent when it's just one per gantry, like how Wisconsin used to do them. Texas traffic lights generally look sloppy and inconsistent, even ones on mast arms compared to span wires.

[Scott5114]

Horizontal signal heads.

Why should this count against Texas? I happen to like the look of horizontal signal heads quite a bit. TX is far from the only state with them, too - they make up 99.5% of traffic lights in NM and are quite common in other states such as NE, WI, FL...

I mentioned Clearview and the plain square route marker too, both of which a lot of people like. It's just one of those you-like-it-or-you-don't things. Coming from a majority-vertical state, horizontal signals feel bad and wrong to me, and I'm always relieved to leave one of those regions and return to normalcy.

[Ned Weasel]

I mentioned Clearview and the plain square route marker too, both of which a lot of people like. It's just one of those you-like-it-or-you-don't things. Coming from a majority-vertical state, horizontal signals feel bad and wrong to me, and I'm always relieved to leave one of those regions and return to normalcy.

Coming from a majority-vertical state, I find horizontal signals to feel like a breath of fresh air.

Coming from a state that doesn't use Clearview in its DOT (and only occasionally uses it in its Turnpike Authority), I find seeing Clearview to feel like a breath of fresh air.

Honestly, anything that makes me feel like I'm away from home has always been a plus to me.  Anything that reminds me of my home area feels daunting and burdensome.

[US 89]

Horizontal signal heads.

Why should this count against Texas? I happen to like the look of horizontal signal heads quite a bit. TX is far from the only state with them, too - they make up 99.5% of traffic lights in NM and are quite common in other states such as NE, WI, FL...

I mentioned Clearview and the plain square route marker too, both of which a lot of people like. It's just one of those you-like-it-or-you-don't things. Coming from a majority-vertical state, horizontal signals feel bad and wrong to me, and I'm always relieved to leave one of those regions and return to normalcy.

Of course, spend enough time in Lawton or downtown OKC and your outlook just might change...

[Scott5114]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be. I also take issue with the way that the Project 360 signals were designed–the horizontal mounting was decided on by a streetscape designer, not anyone from the city traffic department.

As for Lawton–well, no offense to Bobby5280, but I'd rather not spend enough time in Lawton to become used to it.

[JoePCool14]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be. I also take issue with the way that the Project 360 signals were designed—the horizontal mounting was decided on by a streetscape designer, not anyone from the city traffic department.

As for Lawton—well, no offense to Bobby5280, but I'd rather not spend enough time in Lawton to become used to it.

Do you have a picture or a link to a picture of any other those Project 360 lights? The way you're describing them reminds me of those weird shiny, oval lights in Houston which I think look terrible.

[SkyPesos]

Kind of curious, how would horizontal traffic signals be angled on a mast arm, for like left turns on a SPUI offramp? Would it be dangled a bit below the mast arm?

[Scott5114]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be. I also take issue with the way that the Project 360 signals were designed–the horizontal mounting was decided on by a streetscape designer, not anyone from the city traffic department.

As for Lawton–well, no offense to Bobby5280, but I'd rather not spend enough time in Lawton to become used to it.

Do you have a picture or a link to a picture of any other those Project 360 lights? The way you're describing them reminds me of those weird shiny, oval lights in Houston which I think look terrible.

But of course. They look better than the Houston ones, but these usually come with a nice side of 3/4-errored negative-contrast Clearview for good measure, so it's kind of a wash.

It is described in the design document as a "contemporary | minimalist | elegant | stainless steel | rectangular pole" (punctuation as in original).

[JoePCool14]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be. I also take issue with the way that the Project 360 signals were designed–the horizontal mounting was decided on by a streetscape designer, not anyone from the city traffic department.

As for Lawton–well, no offense to Bobby5280, but I'd rather not spend enough time in Lawton to become used to it.

Do you have a picture or a link to a picture of any other those Project 360 lights? The way you're describing them reminds me of those weird shiny, oval lights in Houston which I think look terrible.

But of course. They look better than the Houston ones, but these usually come with a nice side of 3/4-errored negative-contrast Clearview for good measure, so it's kind of a wash.

It is described in the design document as a "contemporary | minimalist | elegant | stainless steel | rectangular pole" (punctuation as in original).

Thanks. Those are definitely better than the Houston ones, but still think they look bad overall. And yeah, the street name signs look awful. But they fit well in Oklahoma. 

[hotdogPi]

It is described in the design document as a "contemporary | minimalist | elegant | stainless steel | rectangular pole" (punctuation as in original).

Since vertical bar means "or" (at least in several programming languages, regular expressions, and Google Search), their statement will be true even if it's only one of the five.

[Scott5114]

It is described in the design document as a "contemporary | minimalist | elegant | stainless steel | rectangular pole" (punctuation as in original).

Since vertical bar means "or" (at least in several programming languages, regular expressions, and Google Search), their statement will be true even if it's only one of the five.

It certainly is stainless steel, so I guess that makes the statement evaluate true.

[kphoger]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be.

So they might be surprised by the alignment of the stoplights.  Big whoop.

[Scott5114]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be.

So they might be surprised by the alignment of the stoplights.  Big whoop.

It is quite a large whoop if you are colorblind–the whoop may be an ambulance siren.

[Rothman]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be.

So they might be surprised by the alignment of the stoplights.  Big whoop.

It is quite a large whoop if you are colorblind–the whoop may be an ambulance siren.

Pfft.  The vast majority of colorblind people can tell the difference between red and green lights on a traffic signal, no matter the alignment.  Some states even test you for colorblindness as a license requirement nowadays.

[jeffandnicole]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be.

So they might be surprised by the alignment of the stoplights.  Big whoop.

It is quite a large whoop if you are colorblind–the whoop may be an ambulance siren.

I'm still convinced the main group of people concerned about colorblind issues are those that aren't colorblind. As if you're trying to find any excuse for something you don't like.

[tman]

MN probably belongs in the OK, but here's the rundown:

I was surprised to see Minnesota rank as low as it did.
Signage seems better than any surrounding state (perhaps roughly equivalent to WI). No Clearview at all, and signs seems to be replaced earlier than in, say, IA/NE which keep far more signs of questionable quality (faded/hard to read/peeling/damaged/very old) - MNDot signage is clean and consistent from area to area and time to time, keeping a consistent look regarding fonts/size/design/etc (e.g. no old all-caps distance signs as seen in Nebraska, which there may be followed by a newer mixed case sign, and so on, all mixed up - MN's are consistent). It's rarer and more difficult to see an old/damaged/hard to read sign than in most other states I've driven in, certainly rarer than in IA/NE/IL, etc, as are sign goofs/mixups - far more common in most other places I've driven, thanks to that consistency.

Span wire traffic lights are virtually nonexistent, FYA are becoming very common, roundabouts are implemented pretty well, and MN has touches such as the signs on traffic light arms denoting the routes, plenty of bypass lanes for slow left turn situations (all signed, as are right/left turn lanes) and consistent Interstate distance signs with three towns (next exit, next mid-sized town, typically, control city/destination), true mile markers on every numbered highway (unlike WI or MO), plenty of speed limit/route reassurance signage, and city limit signs giving population for all incorporated towns (not seen in more states, surprisingly to me). Ditto for the No Passing Zone pennant that I didn't realize wasn't more common elsewhere (used without fail in MN, and in a large size to boot).

Many intersections on state and US highways are lit. Pavement quality, anecdotally, strikes me as better than most other midwest states, easily - lots of smooth concrete and newly resurfaced roads - this has really gotten better in recent years, and most of the roads I drive are in good to excellent shape (barring a soon-to-be-replaced stretch of US 14, the only one that's not "good"). A good chunk of two-lanes are posted at a more-reasonable 60mph, something not seen in neighbors WI/IA, and centerline and edge rumble strips are very common.

Control cities outside of MSP are okay (Albert Lea makes sense as it's an important junction, even if Moorhead should probably be changed to Fargo). Lack of control cities in MSP isn't ideal, but many places choose very poor control cities within urban areas so this is challenging to some extent. I'm not a fan of the ghosting of US highways, though.

As far as other states I've spent a lot of time driving in, Missouri's ranking seems good (pretty darn good signage, particularly considering the size of their system, and generally good pavement - I'd say it's one of the better states for sure). Iowa's signage is a bit haphazard for such a high ranking, and it (and Nebraska) have some truly dreadful pavement. There's a lot of faded signs and plenty of mixed Clearview/Highway Gothic signs in Iowa due to patching, plus plenty of bad greenout jobs. Nebraska signage, when new and of freeway grade, is excellent, but non-Interstate routes are full of rough signage (such as a LGS on US 75 "greened out" with what looks to be green duct tape, that sort of thing), or all of the battered signs on I-129. I do like the diagrammatic junction signs, though. Wisconsin and South Dakota are generally good in the signage department, though WI has some rough pavement and could stand to raise two-lane speed limits. Kansas is good, but a long drive on its two lanes (US 75, US 59, and others) left me less than impressed in terms of signage and pavement quality, considering its sterling reputation.

[kphoger]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be.

So they might be surprised by the alignment of the stoplights.  Big whoop.

It is quite a large whoop if you are colorblind–the whoop may be an ambulance siren.

Still no different than the change happening at a city limit or state border.

Besides which, horizontal signals also have specific locations in the signal head for precisely that reason, and I have to imagine affected red/green colorblind drivers pay attention to that kind of thing.

[vdeane]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be.

So they might be surprised by the alignment of the stoplights.  Big whoop.

It is quite a large whoop if you are colorblind–the whoop may be an ambulance siren.

Pfft.  The vast majority of colorblind people can tell the difference between red and green lights on a traffic signal, no matter the alignment.  Some states even test you for colorblindness as a license requirement nowadays.

I'm curious how colorblind drivers deal with this.

[SkyPesos]

With horizontal traffic lights, kind of curious, do drivers generally know that the order of the light is reversed in left side driving countries, like in Japan and Singapore, the green light is on the left and red on the right? If not, this may be an issue for colorblind drivers.

[kphoger]

With horizontal traffic lights, kind of curious, do drivers generally know that the order of the light is reversed in left side driving countries, like in Japan and Singapore, the green light is on the left and red on the right? If not, this may be an issue for colorblind drivers.

If I were red/green colorblind enough to not tell stoplights apart, and I were planning to drive in a RHD country, then you can bet your sweet bippy I'd be looking into that kind of thing ahead of time.

But also, wouldn't they figure it out after, say, their first one or two intersections?

[Rothman]

I've mentioned my distaste for the Project 360 horizontal signals in downtown OKC, which I consider to be a bad idea because the rest of the city uses vertical, even near overpasses, as do most of the suburbs (Mustang is the sole horizontal light jurisdiction, and their conversion was recent). A driver crossing a jurisdictional boundary, especially a state line, might well be expecting a change in the way traffic control devices are installed, but a driver moving from one district to another in the same city probably won't be.

So they might be surprised by the alignment of the stoplights.  Big whoop.

It is quite a large whoop if you are colorblind–the whoop may be an ambulance siren.

Pfft.  The vast majority of colorblind people can tell the difference between red and green lights on a traffic signal, no matter the alignment.  Some states even test you for colorblindness as a license requirement nowadays.

I'm curious how colorblind drivers deal with this.

I am colorblind and I have no issue with it.

I am more afraid of drivers that think top means stop and bottom means go rather than red and green on that one.