The Analogue Thread

[hbelkins]

So this song is good..

But this song from the same album is not good...

[Throckmorton]

   
I own the following analog cameras -
   
35mm:
   
Canon: FT, F-1, FTb, Pellix, TLb, T50, T70, T80, T90   
   
Contaflex Super   
   
Exakta: VX IIa and two (2) Exas   
   
Graflex Graphic 35   
   
Kodak 35   
   
Kodal Retina Reflex IV   
   
16mm:

Minolta 16 II   
   
Minox B   
   
Cine Kodak movie camera   
   
120 Roll film:   
   
Diana   
   
126 Cartridge:   
   
Kodak Instamatic Reflex   
   

[hbelkins]

As far as the subject of this thread goes, I find nothing advantageous about analog over digital in terms of music or photography.

I've heard the arguments about the richness of vinyl being superior to CD, but I've also opened a brand-spanking-new album before, played it for the first time as I was recording it onto cassette for everyday use in the car or at home, and being infuriated at the pops and cracks (and far too often, skips and sticks). You can make an infinite number of perfect copies of digital media (CDs, MP3/AAC/FLAC files, etc.) and leave the original unharmed.

I will say that I still prefer buying physical copies of music on CD as opposed to downloading or streaming.

And the benefits of digital photography far outweigh any perceived advantages of film. For one thing, you aren't limited to 24 or 30 or 36 shots on a roll of film before you have to change it out. You don't have to conserve shots, and you don't have to pay or put the time into developing and printing. You can see immediately if you got a good photo, or if you need to delete it and try again. You can change up the ISO/ASA from one shot to the next without changing rolls of film and wasting partial rolls (something I ran into often as a weekly newspaper photographer; I'd have to pull a not-fully-used roll of Kodak Tri-X out of the camera for general purposes and replace it with a roll I was going to "push" for low-light basketball games in dim high school gyms.)

I routinely take hundreds of photos on a road trip without having to remove the storage card from the camera. How much would it cost to do the same number of pictures with film?

Where pictures and music are concerned, I'm not looking in the rearview mirror.

[US 89]

And "half past four" is certainly better than the British version "half four".

Even worse: German "half four" (translated) means 3:30.

Believe it or not, English is actually the odd language out in this respect. The vast majority of Germanic and several other European languages use their equivalent of "half four" to mean "half till four".

[dlsterner]

On the subject of vinyl LPs versus CDs, I've always heard the phrase:

Analogue recordings (like vinyl) are approximating perfection, digital recordings (like CDs) are perfecting approximation.

That said, I buy my music on CDs since I like the fact that the recording never deteriorates from either multiple playings or copies made.

"What, nowadays you should buy music as MP3s from places like the iTunes store!" - No, I prefer to have a pristine archival copy.  Hard drives do crash.

[Rothman]

I appreciate the flexibility and convenience of digital audio, but there's little question that analog audio has a warmth to it that does lead to a fuller sound.  Not enough for me to invest in such a system, though.

[ran4sh]

But if you buy on iTunes then it doesn't matter if your hard drive crashes, as you can simply download the content again. Although I do understand why one would want a physical copy.

[Ned Weasel]

On the subject of vinyl LPs versus CDs, I've always heard the phrase:

Analogue recordings (like vinyl) are approximating perfection, digital recordings (like CDs) are perfecting approximation.

That said, I buy my music on CDs since I like the fact that the recording never deteriorates from either multiple playings or copies made.

"What, nowadays you should buy music as MP3s from places like the iTunes store!" - No, I prefer to have a pristine archival copy.  Hard drives do crash.

I prefer CDs, too.  Perfect for playing wherever I want: my bedroom DVD player, the boombox next to my treadmill, or my car, and I never have to fumble with a touchscreen to play them.  Also, when I did try putting MP3s on my phone, I could never figure out how to get it to play each track of an album in the correct order, so that ruined that.

Unfortunately for CDs, while the content never deteriorates inside the disc, the disc itself can get scratched to the point where it's unplayable.  I'm usually careful with mine, though, and I only ever had this problem with a Sega CD game, which I was able to fix with some creative data transfer to a new disc.

[Rothman]

Heh.  I was always careful with my CDs and was always horrified at how others treated theirs (i.e., flinging them around inside their cars, stuffing them in their purses without a case...).

[hbelkins]

Heh.  I was always careful with my CDs and was always horrified at how others treated theirs (i.e., flinging them around inside their cars, stuffing them in their purses without a case...).

For years, after I started buying CDs instead of vinyl (I never was a purchaser of cassettes) I had a cassette player in the car, so I had to record CDs onto the cassettes to play on the road. My brother gave me a Christmas gift of a CD Car Discman and one of those cassette adapters so I could play CDs in the car. So I quit taping my CDs. But when CD burners made their way into consumer hands and blank CDs got cheap, I started copying any new CDs I bought to play in the vehicle.

[Rothman]

Heh.  I was always careful with my CDs and was always horrified at how others treated theirs (i.e., flinging them around inside their cars, stuffing them in their purses without a case...).

For years, after I started buying CDs instead of vinyl (I never was a purchaser of cassettes) I had a cassette player in the car, so I had to record CDs onto the cassettes to play on the road. My brother gave me a Christmas gift of a CD Car Discman and one of those cassette adapters so I could play CDs in the car. So I quit taping my CDs. But when CD burners made their way into consumer hands and blank CDs got cheap, I started copying any new CDs I bought to play in the vehicle.

So, you bought CDs...and then made copies of them so you didn't have to take them into the car.

Well, that certainly was a way of protecting them.

[Scott5114]

I mean, it makes sense to me. CDs are far more likely to get scratched in the car, since you're probably not going to be driving around with the original jewel cases (probably going to have them in some sort of sleeved album or one of those things that attaches to the visor), and if you drop them they're likely to land on the floorboard, which at least in my car always seems to end up with a bunch of random gravel and stuff. It makes sense to take copies on the road and leave the originals at home in the jewel cases, so that if one gets fucked up you can just make a new copy from the pristine original.

CDs were a terrible medium just because of how easy it was for them to get scratched and ruined. I remember, even as a kid, when we started transitioning from 1.44 MB floppies to CD-ROMs, being pretty uneasy about the change, even though you can fit 600 MB on a CD. It's a lot easier to keep magnets away from floppies than it is to keep abrasive things away from CDs.

[zachary_amaryllis]

I love my 1990s Zenith Console CRT television set.  But, as you can see from the photo, all the signals going into it are digital (and so is the clock sitting on top of it), so I guess it doesn't really count.

isn't there one of those 'you know you're a redneck' things ... where, when your old tv becomes the stand for the new tv?
not that i see that here, mind you..
but i had that in my old trailer.

[Rothman]

I mean, it makes sense to me. CDs are far more likely to get scratched in the car, since you're probably not going to be driving around with the original jewel cases (probably going to have them in some sort of sleeved album or one of those things that attaches to the visor), and if you drop them they're likely to land on the floorboard, which at least in my car always seems to end up with a bunch of random gravel and stuff. It makes sense to take copies on the road and leave the originals at home in the jewel cases, so that if one gets fucked up you can just make a new copy from the pristine original.

CDs were a terrible medium just because of how easy it was for them to get scratched and ruined. I remember, even as a kid, when we started transitioning from 1.44 MB floppies to CD-ROMs, being pretty uneasy about the change, even though you can fit 600 MB on a CD. It's a lot easier to keep magnets away from floppies than it is to keep abrasive things away from CDs.

...or some of us were just careful with CDs in our cars...or had a changer...

CDs were a whole lot better than cassettes, which lost audio quality very quickly.  I never found it hard to keep them from "abrasive things."  They were either in a player or a case.

[wxfree]

I prefer analog clocks.  They show not just the time, but where that time is in the context of the whole day.  The problem is that so many of them make noise.  I hate noise, even a very quiet tick, especially when it happens every second.  Digital clocks are silent, but monochrome ones can be hard to see.  I'd like to find a completely silent analog clock, no ticking or slight buzzing, but I haven't really looked for one.  I had one for years, but it eventually died.

I remember film photography, but I only did that with basic cameras and using either Wal-Mart (as it was spelled in those days) or a pharmacy for processing.  I have a nice digital camera, so obviously my digital work is far better, since I never had a good film camera.  With digital, we do so much photography that it would take up too much space to get them all printed.  That has an advantage, taking pictures freely without concern about the cost of film or processing, but also a disadvantage, since it's easy to take a bunch of pictures that aren't really worth anything.  I can still get beautiful prints.  Walmart (at it's spelled now) still has one-hour photo service for sizes up to 8 by 10.  One advantage of digital is RAW files.  As I understand it, exposed film can be processed in different ways, which has an effect on the final product, but once it's processed into a negative, that makes irreversible changes, limiting how it can be adjusted in the future.  A RAW file is like exposed film, but it never changes.  It can be reprocessed an unlimited number of times an unlimited number of different ways, and that produces new image files but never changes the original data set.

I have no opinion on the quality of digital music.  I like digital because a small device can hold a huge number of songs and isn't subject to degradation, scratches, or getting eaten like a tape.  Digital sounds fine to me, unlike tapes that are getting old and start to sound like crap.  I'm not quite old enough to have much experience with records.  I do have some as I kept my mother's collection, but I don't have a player.  I like digital video much better than VHS tapes.  I've never used a film movie camera or projector.

I do prefer analog automotive technology.  I'm not claiming that it's better.  In fact, digital is far superior to the old mechanical analog computers in the form of carburetors, distributors, and vacuum lines.  But as someone who enjoys working on cars, I think automotive maintenance and repair should be more like a painting than a computer program.  I think I would enjoy using a high quality film camera, having a darkroom to develop the film, and driving, and taking care of, an old car with carburetor adjustment screws and no diagnostic trouble codes.

Another one is calendars.  I always have a paper calendar.  Just like an analog clock shows the current time in the context of the rest of the day, a monthly calendar shows the current day in the context of the rest of the month.  Computers can show that, too, but having it on paper, where I can write on it, and it doesn't disappear, makes a difference to me.  When the computer calendar goes away, I tend to forget what it said, but a paper calendar doesn't disappear, and something about that makes it stick with me better.

[Scott5114]

I prefer analog clocks.  They show not just the time, but where that time is in the context of the whole day.  The problem is that so many of them make noise.  I hate noise, even a very quiet tick, especially when it happens every second.  Digital clocks are silent, but monochrome ones can be hard to see.  I'd like to find a completely silent analog clock, no ticking or slight buzzing, but I haven't really looked for one.  I had one for years, but it eventually died.

Well, in the context of half of the day, since it resets at noon in addition to midnight. But setting a digital clock to 24-hour time would also show where the time is in the context of the day.

When I was in school we had clocks that had second hands that went in a smooth sweep and didn't click from one second to the next. I don't know if they buzzed or not; I was never close enough to them to hear (they were always high up above the hallways or above the chalkboards in the classrooms). You could also probably get a clock with no second hand and that probably wouldn't make much noise.

When I was a kid, I had a watch that had an LCD display, but instead of showing digits it showed two hands that moved around the dial in the usual manner. It was intended to teach kids how to tell time, so I guess they figured that approach would keep them from getting confused about the times when the hands are between two scratches on the dial. If an adult version of that exists, that sounds like something you'd like.

KDE on Linux has an analog clock widget you can put on your desktop. You could get something like a Raspberry Pi and attach it to a small screen and made a silent dedicated clock that way.

[Ned Weasel]

For years, after I started buying CDs instead of vinyl (I never was a purchaser of cassettes) I had a cassette player in the car, so I had to record CDs onto the cassettes to play on the road.

I did this when I had my 1999 Buick Century, which only had a tape deck.  The only problem was, those home-quality blank cassettes wore out fairly quickly, so I'd have to re-do the copies.  Commercial-quality cassettes last a lot longer.

I mean, it makes sense to me. CDs are far more likely to get scratched in the car, since you're probably not going to be driving around with the original jewel cases (probably going to have them in some sort of sleeved album or one of those things that attaches to the visor), and if you drop them they're likely to land on the floorboard, which at least in my car always seems to end up with a bunch of random gravel and stuff. It makes sense to take copies on the road and leave the originals at home in the jewel cases, so that if one gets fucked up you can just make a new copy from the pristine original.

I actually hate those CD sleeve books, because they're a pain to fumble with while driving.  I've found it much easier to store whatever CDs I want to take with me in their jewel cases, in the center console (small space, short trip), or in a paper bag on the passenger seat (more space, long trip).

Also, unfortunately for CDs, cassettes are a lot easier to pop in and out when you're driving.  They're probably the most driver-friendly audio medium.

***

Speaking of clocks and things in cars, my first car (1986 Pontiac Grand Prix) had an analog clock instead of digital.  A friend once pointed to it and asked, "What's that?"

isn't there one of those 'you know you're a redneck' things ... where, when your old tv becomes the stand for the new tv?
not that i see that here, mind you..
but i had that in my old trailer.

I've heard that one!  The Mario Bros. had that kind of setup in the movie.  If that makes them rednecks, then they had the thickest New York accents I've ever heard from any rednecks.

[hbelkins]

I didn't have a CD player in my vehicle, and didn't see the need to invest in one and render all my cassettes useless (I had already made the transition from 8-track to cassette years earlier), and I had a very high quality Technics cassette deck in my home stereo system. A CD -- or even a pristine album -- recorded onto a Maxell or TDK blank sounded better than a mass-produced record label cassette. I didn't go for the cheap consumer-model blanks. I can't remember the exact terminology for the blanks, but they were Type II or Metal or some other descriptor. I bought them by the 10-packs. A 90-minute tape would typically fit one whole album on each side.

The tan Toyota Tacoma truck many of you knew as my vehicle over the years had a factory double-DIN unit with cassette and CD.

[CtrlAltDel]

And "half past four" is certainly better than the British version "half four".

Even worse: German "half four" (translated) means 3:30.

Believe it or not, English is actually the odd language out in this respect. The vast majority of Germanic and several other European languages use their equivalent of "half four" to mean "half till four".

I wonder if that might be due to the influence of French, which does not use that Germanic system.

[WillWeaverRVA]

   
I own the following analog cameras -
   
35mm:
   
Canon: FT, F-1, FTb, Pellix, TLb, T50, T70, T80, T90   
   
Contaflex Super   
   
Exakta: VX IIa and two (2) Exas   
   
Graflex Graphic 35   
   
Kodak 35   
   
Kodal Retina Reflex IV   
   
16mm:

Minolta 16 II   
   
Minox B   
   
Cine Kodak movie camera   
   
120 Roll film:   
   
Diana   
   
126 Cartridge:   
   
Kodak Instamatic Reflex   
   

I picked up a Pentax SF10 a few years ago for about $7 and it's easily my favorite film camera, and most of my digital lenses work on it (I shoot digital with a Pentax K-3). It's an SLR with point-and-shoot convenience - it's kind of similar to the Nikon D40 in that respect. I've since picked up a few other film cameras to add to my collection.

[In_Correct]

Anything analog goes here. NO DIGITAL ALLOWED!

This is a thread to see what your thoughts on analogue technology is. I personally am getting into photography.

For those who don't know, we used to take pictures on this stuff called film. You put it in camera, and you took the picture. Then, when the film was exposed, you put it in different chemicals to get negatives. I really like the proses, and I think it's fun. Right now I am trying to set up a darkroom to print my own pictures.

Did you like analogue better? Did you rediscover it? Or, like me, you never use analogue technology, but once you found it, you fell in love?

I am familiar with film, but was not so familiar decades ago. I unfortunately did not know what negatives were. I did not know that as long as you have negatives, you can make copies of the pictures in many different formats. I use digital cameras acceptably, but am also getting back into film and cinema.

... just as Ed from Northern Exposure.

I believe that Magnetic Tape is also Analogue, despite being a Computer Medium, ... It is garbage. Ed him self also said that he prefers Film. Episodes of Northern Exposure (which is shot on Film) also demonstrate how a Motion Picture Camera records, and how to Play them. It is tempting to simply ask James E. Burrows what it was like to be Ed Chigliak, but I suppose any cinematographer behind the scenes would also be able to share how much they enjoy using Film.

There is also Laser Disc, which is another computer storage medium. I all ways wondered if a Laser Disc Camcorder was ever made. It would require the camera lens to be separate component from the very large recording device. While better than Magnetic Tape, I am unimpressed with Laser Disc. They are very unreliable and malfunction often. D.V.D. and BluRay also.

I am confused about the techniques and methods they use to get Film to be Wide Screen. It would be simpler to use 70  M.M. instead.

Also, Digital Storage need not be a complete replacement of Film.

[MCRoads]

   
I own the following analog cameras -
   
35mm:
   
Canon: FT, F-1, FTb, Pellix, TLb, T50, T70, T80, T90   
   
Contaflex Super   
   
Exakta: VX IIa and two (2) Exas   
   
Graflex Graphic 35   
   
Kodak 35   
   
Kodal Retina Reflex IV   
   
16mm:

Minolta 16 II   
   
Minox B   
   
Cine Kodak movie camera   
   
120 Roll film:   
   
Diana   
   
126 Cartridge:   
   
Kodak Instamatic Reflex

I seriously thought about getting into 16mm, but it's soooo expensive!! The cameras and tanks are way more than I can afford. The closest I think I'll get to shooting Cine is using Kodak Vision 3 for bulk loading still film.

[Dirt Roads]

I was terrible at analog-digital design in college, but it is something that this gadgetboy really enjoys.  Anyhow, one of my first projects on the railroad was to upgrade "hot box detectors" that detect overheated axle bearings.  The old units were entirely analog and had continuous printouts using twin pen-plotters to chart the axle temperatures.  The "new" system converted the analog signal to digital and stored the data so that we could ask for printouts later.  And of course, the digital printout was dot matrix on heat-sensitive paper rolls duplicating the pen-plotter outputs.

[Dirt Roads]

The old units were entirely analog and had continuous printouts using twin pen-plotters to chart the axle temperatures. 

Not to be too snarky, but film cameras are not really analog.  For true analog artwork, how about the old pen-plotters with multiple ink pens that pickup and drop.  Which is technically a dot-matrix technology using analog circuitry.  But to replicate photographic outputs, you still needed a digital scanning technique.  Oh well.

[MCRoads]

The old units were entirely analog and had continuous printouts using twin pen-plotters to chart the axle temperatures. 

Not to be too snarky, but film cameras are not really analog.  For true analog artwork, how about the old pen-plotters with multiple ink pens that pickup and drop.  Which is technically a dot-matrix technology using analog circuitry.  But to replicate photographic outputs, you still needed a digital scanning technique.  Oh well.

Well, you can scan negatives digitally, but what I want to do is print them in a darkroom! No digital stuff there!