News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

When did The Simpsons jump the shark?

Started by OCGuy81, May 13, 2021, 06:18:27 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

OCGuy81

Quote from: GCrites80s on May 21, 2021, 03:21:32 PM
Oh I bet he wishes The Man Show never happened.

He can wish all he wants, but that was a show, and it was GREAT when it was on. :-)


gr8daynegb

Quote from: GCrites80s on May 21, 2021, 03:21:32 PM
Oh I bet he wishes The Man Show never happened.

I bet he wishes people would selectively forget parts of that show.  Kimmel personality and sense of humor have stayed the same......it's just since he made his political bed he is trying to please and preach to everyone horribly, whereas Adam Carola just owns it and doesn't give a darn what people that on him and his past.
So Lone Star now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

Scott5114

#52
Quote from: kphoger on May 21, 2021, 02:31:08 PM
I don't think it's objectionable either.  But I also don't think it's objectionable for them not to match.  Because the color of the voice actor's skin shouldn't matter.

Should a black voice actor be disallowed to voice over a white cartoon character?  Or a Korean voice actor be disallowed to voice over a Japanese cartoon character?

I think this is conflating two issues, actually. The idea of "Korean voice actors should be voicing Korean characters" is not necessarily due to the fact that only a Korean actor can do a role "right" (although having an actor with the same background as the character will naturally put forth a more accurate performance), but because it's historically been difficult for non-white actors to get roles in film and TV. So if a role is specifically written to be Korean, it makes sense to have a strong preference to reserve that role for a Korean actor to provide more diversity in the industry, rather than defaulting to a more well-known white actor. (And of course, experience matters a lot in acting. You're more likely to get a role if a casting director is familiar with your prior work.)

Going the other way, you are less likely to have a problem. If a Korean person takes a role of playing a white person (or, more frequently, has no race attached to it, because for most roles portrayed by white people, their whiteness isn't relevant to the character at all) then it doesn't matter so much because there are myriad other roles a white person could apply for.

Likewise, you see a similar push to have gay and transgender characters played by actors of the same orientation. Pretty much any actor worth their salt can do a convincing job of portraying a gay character, since anyone of any race or background can be gay. But openly gay and especially transgender actors have historically had problems getting into the industry, so it makes sense to put pressure on casting directors to use those underutilized actors when it would be appropriate.

There is also the issue of representation to the viewership. Everyone identifies more with a character or actor if they have something in common with the character. Many people outside of the straight white mainstream don't get the chance to see someone like them playing a character they like.

Granted that all of this applies a lot more toward live-action TV and film acting rather than voice acting, because VAs aren't shown on screen. But it can still be relevant–I'm pretty sure most of us can tell the difference between the voice of a Black person speaking in African American Vernacular English and someone who isn't Black imitating someone who is.

Quote from: texaskdog on May 21, 2021, 01:17:06 AM
That's racist in itself, giving people jobs based on skin color.  Hell Bart is voiced by a woman.

Selecting an actor of a certain race based on a role is what's called a "bona fide occupational qualification", which is an exemption to Title VII prohibition of discrimination based on sex, religion, or national origin. Other examples of BFOQs are requiring airline pilots to retire at a certain age (i.e. one is not qualified to fly a plane if they are above a certain age) and requiring religious school teachers to be of the appropriate religion (i.e. one is not qualified to teach Catholic school if they are not Catholic).
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

ZLoth

The Simpsons are still on the air? I thought the series ended because they had that movie 14 years ago.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

CtrlAltDel

#54
I don't think the show has ever jumped the shark. At least according to the IMDB ratings, the decline has been gradual, with no sudden jumps from season to season:



Maybe between seasons 8 and 9, or perhaps 12 and 13.
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

GCrites

I'm trying to remember when the failed experiment of having the Simpsons up against the Cosby Show on Thursday nights was... maybe that ratings dip in Season 2? I think it didn't last long until they went back to Sundays.

OCGuy81

Quote from: GCrites80s on May 25, 2021, 02:01:33 PM
I'm trying to remember when the failed experiment of having the Simpsons up against the Cosby Show on Thursday nights was... maybe that ratings dip in Season 2? I think it didn't last long until they went back to Sundays.

Ahhhhh there's a great irony in how The Cosby Show was considered a beacon of morality in the late 80s and early 90s, and The Simpsons were the degenerates.

Knowing what we know about Bill Cosby now....

TheHighwayMan3561

self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

OCGuy81


ethanhopkin14

Good input on "The Principal and the Pauper" and "When you Dish Upon a Star".  They are the biggest candidates for shark jumping.  I always contested for years that it actually came in season 8.  I adore season 8, but the episode "The Homer They Fall" might be the moment of the decline.  Like all great stories, people look back to an exact moment when things changed, but the reality is it was a convenient spot to point to.  The Cowboys decline and the 49ers rise is always said to be the moment "The Catch" happened, and it makes a great story, but in reality, the Cowboys made it back to the NFC Championship Game the next year and the 49ers missed the playoffs.  That to say that sometimes the actual point is a bit more subtle.

"The Homer They Fall" has a premise of Homer having an extra layer of skull allowing him to be punched repeatedly without being knocked out.  Moe takes this information and wants to be Homer's boxing manager, being a former boxer himself, while Homer "fights" boxers by letting them beat him to the point of exhaustion, in which Homer simply pushed them over.  The episode ends with Homer fighting Drederick Tatum, which has the ingredients of future outlandish plotlines.  why is Homer fighting the Simpsons' version of Mike Tyson?  In the second season episode "Homer vs. Lisa and the 8th Commandment", Homer steals cable and has everyone over to watch the Tatum fight, including Moe, who never mentions being a former boxer and knowing Lucious Sweet, Tatum's manager.  This may seem like small potatoes, but if you go back in time to the 8th season, up to that point, the writers did a good job of keeping The Simpsons' timeline fixed.  They wouldn't ignore previous storylines form previous episodes just for a cheep laugh later.  The writers have talked about the Simpsons living in a "flexible reality" in that they will mess with geography a time or tow for a joke, but the show did have an established timeline.  Marge continued having a gambling problem after she found out she had one in "$pringfield", Marge briefly dated "Artie Ziff and was alluded to in future episodes and any establishing shot of the Simpsons' basement, we see the Olmec head of Xtapalapaquetl.  These things were held in high regard with the fans, so to see a show finally crap on the established universe just came as off-putting.  Couple that with a flashy, popular at the moment guest star (Michael Buffer) and you have the recipe of what came in the Simpsons for the next 15 seasons. 

Don't get me wrong, I like that episode, but I do see the subtle deviation from what made them great in it.  If "The Principal and the Pauper"  really was the episode that was a large deviation from the direction of the show, I consider "The Homer They Fall"  to be the beta testing grounds (although I admit as the years have gone on, I like "The Principal and the Pauper"  simply for its gigantic F you to the fans, like me). 

I liked season 9.  It was amazing, but not like seasons 1-8.  Season 10 was a huge dip.  I think the show got better in season 11 (the last season to have jokes in it that made me truly laugh so hard I couldn't breathe).  The show now is fine.  It's just a show to me now.

gr8daynegb

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 25, 2021, 02:43:34 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 25, 2021, 02:25:04 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 25, 2021, 02:16:36 PM
Knowing what we know about Bill Cosby now....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOu_MsjKp6s

Ha ha ha! I'd forgotten about that clip! So wrong, yet I laughed.

not using the pic/clip with Bea Arthur from that family guy episode?

So Lone Star now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

Rothman

My son, who is under 20, binge-watched The Simpsons and determined Season 10 is where it became not worth watching.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

GCrites

^Hmm, that controls for the nostalgia variable. The writing really did change around that time. I'd argue that the writing today is more like the old days than it was in the late '90s/early 2000s. That late '90s stuff is just kind of strange; I don't know how to describe it.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.